Crowdsourcing Clarity, Ep. 07: HF19 Celebration and Question Regarding Voting Power (5 SBD payout for most helpful answers this time!)

in crowdsourcing-clarity •  7 years ago  (edited)

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Holy hardfork. What a surprise to get done recording the Voluntary Japan live show and return to adjusted rewards.

With the last Crowdsourcing Clarity tips all paid out, it's time for me to bend your ears again, if you don't mind.


I know everybody is talking and blabbing about this right now, but I have a serious question, and time is precious--I have to get to bed. That's where you come in and why I am happy to tip 5 Steem Backed Dollars for some help.

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I understand that the voting power system is now linear. But. How does this affect how many times one can vote with significant power? I mean, I am upvoting comments--COMMENTS--now and seeing them jump in value 10 bucks!

This new system means we must be more conservative with our voting power, if we want to save it for the content we really value, right? Or...wrong? Or...something sort of in between or totally different?

Fire away, Steem-O's, and thanks in advance.

~KafkA

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Graham Smith is a Voluntaryist activist, creator, and peaceful parent residing in Niigata City, Japan. Graham runs the "Voluntary Japan" online initiative with a presence here on Steem, as well as Facebook and Twitter. (Hit me up so I can stop talking about myself in the third person!)

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I have been adjusting. If you want to vote on a lot of things we're really going to have to play around with the slider. In the past I up voted posts consistently by 100%, and comments I was up voting at 20%. I up voted a lot of things, and i like to vote on a lot of thins so with the new 10 votes per day at full power limit I'm having to rethink things... that involves me playing around with the slider to find a sweet spot. I find right now I have my comments set at 1% as that is still giving a pretty nice TIP for a comment, and I am still trying to find where I should set my vote for actual posts... it's pretty crazy.

It is nice though as now we can help new people, and less noticed posts a lot more and I expect rewards to spread out a lot more all over the place.

Thank you @dwinblood. Your comment fitted the last few pieces of the jigsaw together for me. I had only heard about HF today. Seems like a good idea in all don't you think?

Thanks again.

Yes, we've been pushing for a linear curve for a long time. n^2 I'm not really certain why that really ever was even considered in the past. Linear just makes sense.

Thanks, @dwinblood. 5 SBD on the way.

Wild. I didn't expect that. Was just doing what I normally do. In fact, I'd even forgotten about the fact there was a reward. Thanks. :) I'll catch you with some votes... I vote on your posts now and then... even in this day when there are so many.

Cheers man. Enjoy your stuff as well.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Whereas before your voting power increased exponentionally, it now only increases linearly. This meant that people with less steem power didn't have much influence on the payout, while people with A LOT of steem power had exponentially more influence on it.

Now, voting power increases the reward linearly. To give a really simple (and perhaps incomplete) example, a full power with with 10SP would equal a 100 votes with 1SP. In other words, if the SP was 10 times higher, the vote would be 10^10=100 times more powerful.
After HF19 the same 10SP vote is only 10 times as strong as a 1SP vote. It went from exponential increase to linear increase.

So now that 'smaller' steemians have more de facto voting power, their voting power also depletes faster. So yes, you'd have to be more conservative if you want to give full power votes to posts that you really enjoy. And that's what I would advise people: only upvote great content!

I hope that helps! Sleep well brother.

Another great comment. Upvoted.
Thank you for the explanation.

I guess i won't need pipboy anymore to calculate payouts.

Thanks, @rvanstel. 5 SBD on the way.

How does this affect how many times one can vote with significant power? I mean, I am upvoting comments--COMMENTS--now and seeing them jump in value 10 bucks!

The voting power drains by 2% for every 100% upvote that you give from your account. That means if you give 50upvotes then your voting power would have reach a BIG FAT 0!

@kafkanarchy84, people will become more responsible with their upvotes, I hope the reward equality changes will encourage people to read before actually upvote a post.. I just hope so

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Yep we need to be more conservative in voting now. Before you could make 40 votes before your voting power went below 80%...now it only takes 10 votes! Not only are payouts linear, but each vote grew in power by 4x! Still it feels good to spread around the payout wealth, feel like a kid that owns a candyshop (not even just in one)!

Thanks, @mk40. 5 SBD on the way.

From what I read about the change, there is a 4 times increase in voting power meaning you can only vote at 100% full power 10 times instead of 40. If voting power is not adjusted to 25%, you will have to be a bit more stingy with your votes.

cool post and great stuuf
Fork forever bro

I love this new structure and you have a valid point on how we should consider voting..but for now be Santa and upvote on...cheers!

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Unless people reduce their voting power to 25% or something; this Hardfork will promote people to find content that they love and content which is high quality which benefits those who are hardworking curators.
Before people would pour hours into some posts and would not get any recognition.(Like a few of mine, maybe)

I'm very curious about this too. I'm seeing people say your vote power only increased x4, but before HF19 my votes would add $0.01 or less to a post, and now they seem to be adding between $0.15 and $0.25. Maybe the algorithm works differently depending on your steempower range.

It definetely feels like one has to be more conservative. Specially in the website.

But I learned today that in other Steem clients you can actually change your voter power even if you are under 500 SP, altough there seems to be a hardlimit on that.

eSteem for mobile is an example.

Yours is very nice post and very interesting I love to visit your blog. It includes useful postings. Thanks friend.
I love it.

It is your power. I think you should look to under represented categories, but if you like a post support it.

My only issue is managing vote power. Before the fork I wasn't allowing my power to recharge to 100% and was stuck in the 30% range for a few weeks.

I set my slider to 1% for comments and 20% for blog posts and I still have more voting $$$ power! If something truly touches me I can set it higher and I LOVE that option.

I think it is limited to 10 full power upvotes, after that percentage goes down. that is my understanding. We should be conservative and stingy but maybe more generous this time. We on the road to hit 1 million userbase.

From my understanding, you can vote 40 times prior to HF19. Now, you'll be able to vote 10 times (to use the same amount of power). I am actually curious whether the new system will help minnows get their posts trending more easily if they post quality blog items. All in all, I think curation has become much more interesting with lower frequency, but higher intensity full-power votes :)

I didn't even think about it, and went through my morning ritual of upvoting the comments on my post that were insightful. BAM! No SP. This is going to change the way I do things big time. I want to encourage discussion, but I haven't earned my slider yet, so I'm not sure how to go about it. :(

upvoted you and its great to read all your posts because it adds a great skills and knowledge in myself, already followed you and inspired from your posts, hope that you also follow me back so that it will be a great pleasure for me and a big contribution from ur side for me , thanks kindly follow me and resteem my post aswell
@shanzaylizay

I had the same question but the comments did a good job explaining, thanks for the post.

i won't be able to go vote crazy like usual lol and i want to even more now that i can drop more for folks

100% powered votes are going to go A LOT farther. Mine were netting me over $2 of impact per post I was voting, but they depleted my voting power much more rapidly. Once the dust settles, I think what we'll be moving to is much lowered power votes for generally liked content (stuff that we think is good) with the ability to really offer a bonus for stuff that we love. That's how I'm viewing it.

Now you can make about 10 posts at full power before the effects become gravely noticeable.

Keep in mind there are other Steem clients that let you scale your voting power even if you don't have at least 500 SP, like sSteem.

If you scale tour Votin Power to 25%, you should get close to being able to vote as much per day as you were before HF 19. (Around 40 times per day)

I hope this helps!

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

I think people are missing the trick here....most of the people are upvoting their own comments and posts because of that there are many good posts with no or little votes...I think I can earn more by curating good content...
Citing White paper

The naive voting process creates a Prisoner’s Dilemma whereby each individual voter has incentive to vote for themselves at the expense of the larger community goal. If every voter defects by voting for themselves then no currency will end up distributed and the currency as a whole will fail to gain network effect. On the other hand, if only one voter defects then that voter would win undeserved profits while having minimal effect on the overall value of the currency.
In order to realign incentives and discourage individuals from simply voting for themselves, money must be distributed in a nonlinear manner. For example a quadratic function in votes, i.e., someone with twice the votes of someone else should receive four times the payout and someone with three times the votes should receive nine times the payout. In other words, the reward is proportional to votes^2 rather than votes. This mirrors the value of network effect which grows with n^2 the number of participants, according to Metcalfe’s Law.
Assuming all users have equal stake, someone who only receives their own vote will receive much less than someone who receives votes from 100 different users. This encourages users to cooperate to vote for the same things to maximize the payout. This system also creates financial incentive to collude where everyone votes on one thing and then divides the reward equally among themselves.