Courtesy letter ...
Back in July I brought you the story of how the oldest boy received a “courtesy letter” from an attorney claiming the boy had an outstanding debt with some doctors group. If you remember right, the amount is less than a couple hundred dollars, but the thing about the situation is that he has no record that these folks ever did anything for him. He never did receive a bill or even a statement from this doctors group and the first contact about the alleged debt was this courtesy / demand letter from the attorney’s office.
In the country...
So what is ”good for the goose is good for the gander”, as we say in the country and so I type up a response letter for the boy and he signed it and sent it off to that attorney’s office via registered mail / return receipt. In that letter the boy made some demands of his own and set a time line out as well for a response. The attorney’s office received their letter on 08/03/18, I would have liked to see the look on their faces when they read it too.
Now he hears from...
So far he has not heard back from the attorney’s office but he has gotten a letter from a collection agency now regarding the matter. It is the collection agency that was referenced in the letter the attorney had sent saying where to send his payment to. It is almost funny that they never could contact him before but now they can, according to the one page letter the collection agency sent, they have had his “account” since early February of this year.
We verified, now pay...
The letter he got on Saturday said that they were aware that he was looking for verification that he owed that doctors group the debt, and that they had indeed verified it so he needs to pay them. Wow, I guess he should just write them a check; surely no collection agency would ever misstate anything or make a mistake right? Yea, right.
Nothing like accuracy...
For starters the letter from the attorney had the account number being one number and the letter from the collection agency had it being a different number, both very similar numbers just one account number ended in 318 and the other ended in 3118. That is close but which is correct? Could there also be a mistake in the amount owed as well?
Nothing from the attorney...
I find it interesting that the boy hasn’t received a reply from the attorney’s office yet, it maybe that the boys demands for actual proof is something that they are not used to getting in the mail. The attorney still has over a couple weeks left for them to send a reply with the documents the boy requested or to ask for an extension of the 30 day time frame. Since the attorney was only allowing him thirty days to respond thirty days seemed like a good number to give them as well.
So he waits...
So we will have to wait and see if he does get a letter of response from the attorney’s office.
In the mean time, I drafted a letter to reply to the collection agency and thanked them for acknowledging the fact that the boy is looking for proof to verify the debt.
Provide documentation...
I told them that they would also be required to provide documentation of the debt in a similar fashion as was laid out for the attorney to follow and provide. They also were extended the invitation to request more time if needed to assemble the documents, but to request it before the thirty days expires.
Just because they say he owes it isn’t enough proof to cut them a check and send it, I don’t care how many times in that letter they said they have “verified” it, they have a financial interest in collecting some money and they might just be a bunch of liars and crooks, I mean; who really knows?
So that letter will go out on Monday , registered mail of course, and the last line of the letter specifically states that if they don’t provide the documents as requested that they need to cease and desist from any further collection attempts.
Not opposed to paying...
The boy isn’t opposed to paying if he truly owes it but when the doctors group never sent an invoice or even a statement in the six months prior to sending it to collections that seems pretty odd. Then you have the collection agency themselves who have had it and never bothered to send a letter or make a phone a call so it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that he might just be being scammed.
Why wait...
Why would someone wait five or six months to try to collect a legitimate debt? Then why would they want to get an attorney involved and give the attorney a cut of the money just for sending a letter? A lot of things just don’t add up here in this scenario.
Do they seriously think that sending him this little one page correspondence is really going to change the boy’s mind and send a check? If anything, it has actually made him think that he just might be being scammed.
The boy has some experience...
He works as a manager at the local hardware store and the store has “house accounts” that can charge materials and supplies the companies need and so he knows how they send out the invoices weekly and the statement at the end of the month. The store is serving as the “bank” for these charge accounts and if they don’t pay by the 15th the account starts getting phone calls looking for when they will get paid. It is just a part of doing business the right way and the boy knows this from being a part of the process. Should the medical industry or arena be any different?
This will be an ongoing little adventure for him and so I will keep you posted as things progress.
Discussing kids and insurance...
One thing the wife and I discussed the other day was about kids and insurance, and specifically those kids that are over eighteen and still being covered on the parents’ health insurance.
This is scary...
The EDS group that the wife belongs to on Face Book had a lady tell a very interesting story about how her daughter, who was 19 at the time, and was in the hospital under their insurance policy was almost placed under guardianship of the state because the girl couldn’t make her own medical decisions and there was no medical power of attorney saying that the parents could make the decisions for her.
Not just for the elderly...
We always think of medical power of attorney for the elderly but we also need to think about children who have reached that magical age of adulthood but don’t have a spouse that is recognized in law as being able to make decisions.
More on the 19 year old...
This hospital was owned by the Mayo clinic group and come to find out they owned just about every hospital in that state. She was placed on a feeding tube and being given all kinds of sedatives to basically keep her knocked out and the parents started raising concerns that she wasn’t being cared for properly and that if they took her off the drugs and let her come to her senses she could feed herself and make her own decisions since the hospital wouldn’t let the parents be involved in the decisions.
No kidding, kidnapped...
The hospital was basically milking the insurance policy since the people had real good insurance and the hospital knew it. The father ended up actually having to kidnap his own daughter out of the hospital and ended up taking her to another state in order to get her into a hospital that would actually help her. He then also had to go to court to get the process stopped that the Mayo clinic folks had started to make her a ward of the state. You talk about a guzbucking nightmare, which is a nightmare I want no damn part of for sure.
Not legal advise...
You can be assured that there are some medical powers of attorney papers being drawn up right now that will end up being signed and notarized very shortly for our oldest boy and each of our other kids when they turn eighteen. I don’t give legal advice so I am not telling you to run out and get some papers done for you and your kids but I am telling you that you might just want to look into it before you find yourself having to kidnap your own kid and flee the state like that father had to do.
Meanwhile in Texas...
We also had a friend last year that their daughter went to Texas A&M and they had some type of situation up there at one of the dorms that placed the entire dorm on a medical quarantine and the kids were not allowed to leave or go into the building. These people’s daughter had evidently left her phone in her car when the quarantine went into place and she had no way of contacting them so the parents didn’t know if she might be the reason or have whatever was the cause of the quarantine.
None of your business...
The parents went up to the university to try and get some answers about their daughter and the university refused to tell them anything regarding their daughter because she was over 18 and they could not discuss her situation because it would be a violation of their daughter’s right to medical privacy.
Adios A&M...
Needles to say, the daughter no longer goes to Texas A & M, but that situation could occur at any university so keep that in mind as well when you are thinking about your kids being away at college. We are in an age where common sense is no longer common and so we really need to be looking at different situations and trying to figure out how to stay one step ahead of this game they seem to playing on us.
Thanks for dropping by; enjoy your Sunday.
Until next time,
@sultnpapper
Congratulations! This post has been chosen as one of the daily Whistle Stops for The STEEM Engine!
You can see your post's place along the track here: The Daily Whistle Stops, Issue 232 (8/20/18)
The STEEM Engine is an initiative dedicated to promoting meaningful engagement across Steemit. Find out more about us and join us today.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
If a debt is in collections typically that debt will show up on your credit report. He needs to check that out to see what if anything is on there. Also I recently received a letter about a medical bill from 7 years ago THAT I ALREADY PAYED! Saying I still owed it, idk whats going on right now with debt collection in this country but its a racket for sure and you have to be careful. If you dont respond, somehow the debt can be legally presumed yours, yet if you respond or pay a penny after statute of limitations has passed debt can be reopened and pinned against you. Back to your situation, if nothing is on the credit report, its likely a bogus attempt to collect money, some people will just send it in without a fight, so they be mass contacting every client of that doctors group claiming debt is owed, or some kind of similar scam.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Good point @sevendst19 about checking the credit report. You are also correct on statute of limitations and things like that where if you do make a payment, even a very small one, you can bring an old expired debt back to life.
This case is from last year when he had to go to the local stand alone emergency room for some stitches, he buried an ax head in his leg just above the ankle.
I wanted to use this as a teaching experience for him in teaching him that when in doubt about whether or not you owe a debt make them prove their claim. If it is a legitimate claim they should have no problem producing the records and transcripts from what the doctors supposedly did for him.
I may have him check his credit report after we go through this process, but he needs to learn the steps he needs to take so he can be able to do this on his own in the future should he need too. Like you said, so many people will just in a payment if the amount isn't real hefty without ever even thinking about it, and as long as people continue to that the scammers will continue to send out bogus claims.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing some good information.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
It certainly is a mad mad world out there!
Very scary too!
Regarding debt collecting agencies; when we bought an apartment in Johannesburg a couple of years ago, we simply could not get an account number from the local municipality for the rates and taxes which have to be paid for their services. I phoned, emailed, posted letters, all to no avail. Fortunately kept copies!
Till one day when hubby got a threatening sms saying he's in arrears with his City of Joburg account, collection charges were added etc etc and that's when the fight started! They had all our details plus the much wanted account number and only backed off after much writing backwards and forwards to an online consumer watchdog and the municipality! So much time wasted due to the accounts not being sent to the registered owner at his postal address or even emailed, info which they did have! Really annoying!
I'm very much interested to know the outcome of your son's annoying issue!
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
It is almost like they held back on husbands situation just so they could add on the extra fees and such, good for you for having the documentation.
I will keep tabs on the boy's experience and let you'll know the outcome.
Thanks for dropping by and the continued support.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Part of the problem with your son's issue may lie with the 'doctors group'. The possibility exists that they may have had a tax issue (making too much money IS an issue for some) and just didn't bill. Once they 'sell' the account to the credit service they can write it off as bad debt which comes directly out of income earned.
The money paid them by the 'credit service' IS NOT direct income and thus is taxed at a different rate. The attorney gets his cut from the 'credit service' and the percentage is high enough that he simply sends a form letter to every single one.
Now for the really fun part. I will just guarantee you that before this is settled out the credit service will sell the bill to another credit service and can claim that they have nothing to do with the bill at all. The new credit service starts the process all over again. Rinse and repeat.
Good catch on the power of attorney for your kids. What an absolute bucket of poop. I mean really. When I lost my eye (I was 20 and a college student-sorta) there was some discussion with my parents about whether or not the insurance would cover. I was technically in the Navy (I'd raised my hand and sworn the oath-twice) so they were sort of involved, too.
The end was that the Insurance Company paid. They said it was out of the goodness of their hearts but I suspect they were in a box. The point is, I just about wasn't involved in any of this. In my day, the party that paid the bills was who made the decisions. No further questions needed.
How'd we get here? We let the lawyers run the country with input from the medical community. We let the medical community run the medical industry with input from the lawyers. See the common thread? I could go on but I think there is no need.
Good Sunday to you my friend. Thanks for the update and for the attention to a vast problem.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
You Tom have brought up an angle that I never considered, the tax liabilities of the people involved. It might be very well as you suggested where the doctors group is just making too much money,
I need to look at a way to put into his reply a way that if they sell this "account" to some other collection service that he can some how go back on them for any expenses incurred or at least he can than start sending them bills for his time to deal with it.
This kind of stuff is time consuming and what people need to realize is that when you get one of these letters from a debt collector that if you don't respond and dispute it within the 30 day time frame you are agreeing that you owe the debt.
This needs to be done when you get the very first letter, otherwise if you just disregard it, they will end up taking it to court and getting a default judgement against you.
In the end it might just be easier to pay the damn the thing but it is a matter of principle.
If he were to pay it and he was getting scammed it would just encourage these type of people to continue scamming people. On the other hand if it is a legitimate debt and he does owe it this might make this outfit get their ducks in row and start operating like businesses should.
If this isn't legit it would surely be a federal offense of mail fraud that the government might need to be made aware of. Only time will tell, and we just have to see how it all plays out.
The insurance and kids and power of attorney is something that everyone also does need to be aware of, what a mess that arena has become. Pretty much because as you noted with the players in that game too.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Insurance and hospitals are scary when it comes to biilling and sadly I think they work hand itn hand look at how many times Insurance take doctors out for lunch or dinner or to medical events hosted by insurance companies in Vegas or other such popular spots
no wonder everything is so expensive
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
A person would be surprised just how all that works, if you want to know just how jacked up all that is just tell the doctor or hospital you don't have medical insurance and you want to know the "cash" price for what you need done.
A friend of mine who has medical insurance to comply with the mandate says he never even uses the insurance and that a procedure that he needed done was billable through insurance at just under $5 grand with his 20% that he would have to pay it would be a grand out of his pocket.
He said he went to a different doctor and for the same out patient surgery done in the doctor's office without using the insurance his total bill was just under $700. He saved over $300 not using the insurance. The insurance appears to be just another tax we have to pay disguised as a "benefit",
I don't believe he is lying about it either, but I haven't had a situation where I could ask the cash price since he told me this to find out for myself.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
No, hes right, I had a medical savings account at my former job. Went and had something done and the price they quoted me for "not having insurance" was way way cheaper than what it would have been had I had insurance. I wish I could remember what the price was now. I think it was like 750 or 950 with the insurance and I paid under 300 with my medical savings account debit card.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I don't doubt my friend is right and that he had it done at a considerable amount less by paying cash. I just never have done it myself so I couldn't swear too it, but you have so we all can take that as fact now. So it would be wise to get a second opinion, not on the diagnosis, but on the cost.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
@sultnpapper I have heard similar stories so I believe it to be true
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I think this collection agency is trying to cam your son. I talked about this with my sons and they think the same thing that the lawyer gets a hefty fee for writing a bunch of letters for this agency without doing their due diligence to see if there are actual bills for the services. My son in Canada had a similar situation and they did threaten to take him to court and his reply was to go ahead. Never heard from them again. I suspect this will be the case with this agency.
As far as that story goes, it goes further. The CPS is now taking on the family trying to remove the younger kids saying the parents are unfit. This is even a bigger guzbucking nightmare for this family. Mayo is big business and so is the CPS. Their interests lie with the almighty dollar, not what is best for the patient or family.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
The Mrs. didn't tell that other part about that family's situation, I will have to ask her if she is aware of that, she probably is, but she just feeds me in little bits and pieces so I don't choke on it i guess.
As far as the boy's situation goes, I don't know at this point but time will tell. I am starting to lean towards the scam only because the collection agency responded and not the attorney's office thus far and he didn't send the collection agency anything yet.
If it is a legitimate bill he owes, I would have expected them to respond with a letter saying something like , "we have requested the documentation you have requested from the creditor and expect to have it in xx number of days , at which point we will send it to you for your review." Something like that would be more in line with a legitimate claim.
He isn't trying to avoid paying a legitimate bill, but he also doesn't want to pay something he doesn't owe and who could blame him.
This will be a good learning experience no matter which way it turns out because he needs to learn the process and how to handle claims made against him.
You know what, I wonder just how many kids the Mayo clinic actually gets turned over to CPS for custody? They might very well be in with them and making sure CPS always has kids to look after on a full time basis.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I just got an update on the family. Not all the kids have been taken into custody, but mother and father have split so that dad can have custody of the kids. They have managed to destroy another family...
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
That is a real tragic story right there, how do the people in those jobs even sleep at night?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
They have no conscience and no soul.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
This sounds like a great life lesson for your son in how to question things. Many people would just pay up without a second thought. It sounds vey dodgy to me - I'll be surprised if you hear from this "attorney" again.
My sister is married to an American man, and their daughter is living in the States. Their 16-year-old son went to the US last summer for a summer school, and unfortunately had an accident. They had EXACTLY the same experience as your wife's Facebook friend. My sister and her husband flew over to be with their son, and encountered a situation where the hospital was effectively milking the insurance policy. My sister is a doctor here, and she created merry hell, eventually getting a colleague with credentials to write a letter to the hospital, and only then were they able to release their child. They were shocked by the whole affair.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Your sister's experience here would be enough that she probably never let hers kids come back here again, and who could blame her. I was talking with my wife since I posted this and she said that one lady responded on that FB post that in order get a hospital to finally release her kid she called her insurance company and had them terminate her policy effective immediately and it still took two days after that before the hospital would release the kid.
I guess it took them a couple days before the hospital figured it out.
I could easily see how your sister and her husband would be shocked, you don't expect that in a first world country, maybe a third world country. Then again, if you look at what constitutes a third world country the USA actually qualifies real easily and that is no joke either.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Sadly that does increasingly seem to be the case, looking at the police and injustice system. In fact, my sister's oldest child is studying at Berkeley University, and seems to have met the love of her life there - a very nice American guy, who has already spent last Christmas with us. She volunteers in a homeless shelter, and the stories she could tell you about people who had good careers and education, but their lives somehow went off the rails. It's scary.
Anyway, that's a clever move by the FB lady. Ridiculous that people have to go to those lengths though.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
It is clever for sure, but now you have to be when dealing with these outfits that will call the law or government to get involved where they aren't needed or wanted.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
The truly horrifying thing about your anecdote of the 19 year old woman sedated into a stupor so the hospital could milk the insurance is ... I don't doubt it for an instant. If she hadn't had insurance, she'd have been out on the street, "condition" and all to make room for another patient in the bed she was taking.
I have reached the point where I am more than a little concerned about being unable to escape from the hospital if ever I wind up in one. The Weasel and I have had this conversation: "Don't let them keep me." He damn sure better listen.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit