The whole ether DAO thing has put me off DAOs for the foreseeable future. Never say never though.
RE: Nerd Money Isn't Just For Nerds Anymore
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Nerd Money Isn't Just For Nerds Anymore
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Dash was the first DAO, before "The DAO" even existed, got hyped and then collapsed. Dash has been quietly doing DAO the right way
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The concept of a DAO is great. It's just that the devil is in the details, as they say. The Ethereum DAO was deeply flawed on a number of levels, but I wouldn't let that put you off DAOs in general. I too got caught up in that unfortunate experience, I look at it as lessons learned and the industry as a whole is stronger for having gone through that painful experience. The Dash DAO looks interesting although I'm not investing in it - simply too much money is required to get a masternode these days. Digix looks promising, if they ever manage to actually release their governance contracts.
If you want to sink your teeth into something really exciting, you might want to revisit the VIVA project masterminded by @williambanks. The crownholders in that project form a DAO of sorts, and VIVA has been building up a lot of momentum lately with their ICO approaching. The just released whitepaper is worth a read.
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I think this is similar to saying "The South Sea Company has put me off companies". Companies were a relatively new concept at the time, with the East India Company pioneering it on a massive scale. A high profile disaster shouldn't undermine the whole concept. It would be like giving up on shipping after the Titanic disaster.
Incidentally, Steem and Bitshares are DAO's as well. So is Bitcoin, it just doesn't have as well formalized governance.
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Maybe.
Steem is not a DAO as I understand it and I don't know enough about Bitshares to comment.
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Perhaps you have a narrower criteria for 'organization' than I do, but I definitely consider Steem to fit it. It has a decision making process over a budget, a governance model, it facilitates/funds its own objectives such as development and marketing, etc. It doesn't have a top-down hierarchical structure but that's a positive aspect of DAO's.
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Perhaps but I don't see how the decision making is decentralised or autonomous in any way.
It is controlled from the top down by Steemit Inc with occasional input from the community.
If you use the very loose definition of voting on content and electing witnesses then you might think of it that way but I think part of the idea of a DAO is that there is also decentralisation of governance in the same way.
I think it is at best a kind of semi-DAO.
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Voting on content = a budgeting mechanism. It's currently mostly used for supporting blog posts, but it's also used to support developers like good-karma developing eSteem, and marketing initiatives such as steemdrive. In both cases a vote from Steemit Inc users helps, but it's not necessary.
I'm not sure what aspect of governance you're saying is centralized? The development of the protocol?
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Possibly but I'm talking about the development of Steem and the direction it takes - by the whitepaper definition (in my opinion) at least it does not meet the criteria. I suppose ultimately it depends on what you consider the elements of a DAO to be.
See above - I'm not sure how much plainer I can make it. I'm not against the current structure - I think it makes sense at the current size and level of development but I think calling it a DAO is mislabelling it.
Further the stigma attached to DAOs as a result of last year is something I would rather avoid too.
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The governance mechanism for this exists, but the Steemit Inc accounts simply has a stake large enough that it doesn't need to involve many smaller stakeholders in the process to make decisions. This is similar to the way a majority party doesn't have to involve other parties in a government. Although even with their majority stake, they still had trouble getting their agenda through on multiple occasions.
As their stake diminishes they will have to involve more people in this process. But I do think we should be doing more things along the lines of stakeholder polls on protocol upgrades, encouraging users to see themselves as stakeholders and be involved in the process.
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I agree. I think it is tricky though.
One of the problems with the big DAO last year was that having so many people involved and decentralising decisions to such a great degree lead to a kind of paralysis.
Any DAOs that follow that kind of model will need to create mechanisms to get round that I think.
In some situations having an organisation or a set of people that have the final say can expedite matters and may be more efficient - that is particularly important when a crisis or emergency occurs.
I think over time Steem/Steemit will find the right balance.
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The Steemit INC team, I'm guessing Ned, chose the marketing people. That's as centralized as it gets.
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Let's put it this way, Ned is a CEO and the Steemit INC people have chosen @andrarchy and the other guy to do marketing. This is a centralized approach. A true DAO would not allow certain individuals to decide who to hire. Instead, the 4000 masternode owners would decide who to hire to do marketing. Steemit Inc. is a centralized operation with a CEO controlling the direction. It has elements of decentralization, with daily votes for posts, but the direction of Steemit is centrally controlled. It would be wise if certain people stepped down and replaced it with a real DAO.
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Steemit Inc hired andrarchy. Steem didn't. Steem payed for steemdrive, for example. The existance of a regular company doesn't preclude the existence of a DAO.
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sure. I suppose people get confused because they think that steemit is decentralized, which it clearly is not. It's a centralized company existing on top of a blockchain..............There are clear ways to organize Steemit in a more decentralized fashion, which I don't see happening. First of all, the community should have been polled to find out who has helped the steemit community the most as far as communication. The community should decide who is the community manager. The hive knows best. Instead, a centralized decision was made, which does not reflect the community's wishes. This is the main problem with centralization. It relies too heavily on the biases, judgment and fantasies of one small-minded individual.
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If your "flagship product" is a centralized entity, that doesn't look so good for the Steem blockchain. That is my main point.
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Good point 👍
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Steemit is far from being a real DAO. It has the shadows of DAO, that's all.
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Steemit obviously isn't a DAO. Steem is the network which makes decentralized decisions about budget etc., not Steemit.
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The Dash DAO was the original DAO. It has zero in common with the Ethereum failure.
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Is it? They kept it secret very well then - I hope they make sure not make some of the same mistakes.
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the Dash Dao is a complete system. It's not one smart contract with a flaw in the code.
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I will need to read up more on it. The whole ethereum thing was such a pain that it has scared me off!
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it's basically Bitcoin with a functioning governance system. That's it.
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No it's better than Bitcoin in many respects (other than security in terms of mining but that is for now).
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What do you mean, the Ethereum DAO? Why?
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I don't understand your question.
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