Should it be optional for text-content on Steem to be immutable?
Right now, if you create content on Steem, even if you delete or change it, the original version will always be there. Which can be seen with tools like this: https://scribe.steemian.info/ (or manually if you have the skills)
But imagine you could decide, whether the content you publish to the Steem blockchain should be there forever (immutable) or could be deleted by you. The actual object that you created (which contains the votes and other important data), could of course not be deleted, only the text-content.
Here is a rough example how it would look practically:
Currently
Then
What this means is, that frontends (such as Steemit, Steempeak, Partiko, etc.) would host the content for their users, which would be linked to inside the blockchain, so other frontends could access that content as well.
Advantages
1.) Users might use Steem more often for normal interactions, since the everlastingness of content on a blockchain, probably discourages some users from interacting.
2.) Giving users the option to remove their own content, would truly mean that users own their content. Currently, you might benefit from posting on Steem, but once it's on it, you can't change it. (even if you change it, the original version is still saved)
3.) An important and obvious advantage would be the reduction of content saved on Steem, thus reducing the cluttering and future size of our blockchain. Which is an important step if we're talking about millions of users.
Now, some people might want the censorship-resistants or the immutability of content on Steem, and they could simply opt-in to publish the content onto the blockchain. But it wouldn't be enabled by default.
What are your thoughts on this?
- Yes, I would prefer to create content on Steem without immutability, as I personally don't really care about the immutability/censorship-resistance of the content I produce.
- Yes, I would prefer to create content on Steem, where the actual content isn't saved directly on the blockchain, while still having the option to enable the immutability of content.
- No, my content should always be immutable.
- I'm not sure. I'd prefer to have this question answered by experienced users.
- Other (details in comment)
Answer the question at dpoll.xyz.
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I have to say that I'm a big fan of your work but this is a big no no. Steem starting out as a content creating platform and one of the biggest attractions is the immutability of the text content. Taking it away would essentially change what Steem was meant to be.
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one can just post a link to another blog on for example medium and that can be hosted or embedded with an iframe.
It would just be about whether frontends support embedding and displaying types of content. For example embedding gists from github as is currently supported on Medium.com.
It's basically the same as just posting a youtube link here, hook into the rewards system, then later remove that video if one wants mutability option.
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It’s true but that’s neither user friendly or good for steemit, inc. they want people to post on here, not medium. Or am I missing something?
If steem grows to be what it should be, it’ll mever be able to handle this much data unless the majority of websites using SMTs are centralized but just run a currency on top. Would love to hear your thoughts on that.
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I've no problem with apps doing mutable text but ideally you should still include a hash when it's first posted to the blockchain so that apps can tell if it has been modified or not. Or even update the post with a new hash every time there's an edit.
The hash alone doesn't leak the text content but it allows you to verify that it was in a certain state at time of posting.
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I value the version controlled immutability on the block chain, but only for reasons of robustness. Too many old posts of mine are ruined because image links just break after a while for some reason, and I would hate to see the same happen to the text content. If though a robust solution were available (preferably for both text and images), a git style rebase would be a really cool way feature.
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If someone were to select the option of having the text removed permanently, wouldn't that then pique the interest of an individual or group to wonder what this user could potentially want to hide at some point, prompting them to capture the data before it is lost? Worst case scenario... that data could then be held for ransom.
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Have you never created a post, which in hindsight you wouldn't have posted and rather want to delete it?
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To be honest, I've done things that make me cringe a bit. But in the artist/entertainer world, sometimes you take risks. I'll write humor for instance and when one does that, you don't really know if something is funny until you hear the laughs. I've bombed pretty hard, but I can't take it back. It comes with the territory and you have to roll with the punches. I don't drink alcohol often and if I do, I'll typically shut my devices off and focus more on relaxing. The early days of Facebook taught me all about waking up to, "Oh my GOD! Did I actually write that!!" That's embarrassing. As for comments here, gotta stick to your guns, man. Think before you talk. I've said some things I regret, maybe hurt some feelings, certainly don't feel good about it afterwards, but deleting won't help because the damage was already done. Can't take it back. Whoever it was, they'll remember. In life, we can't go back in time and fix those communication breakdowns. For that, I guess we have apologies.
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Excellent points @nonameslefttouse
Thank you!
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Whoever that would want to do that is just a big brainless hasty baboon.
If we have at least two neurons alive inside our bigheads, we should know well enough that we always must re-read, edit and think twice beforehand what the fuck we want to share publicly in the wild.
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I tend to agree with all your proposals, but I am deeply against this one. There are many reasons for it, I will only name the two that concerns me the most.
I have seem Steem as a great opportunity to showcase how intellectual property could be protected. If we could manage to fix the most harmful issues we currently have, I don't see why Steem could not be a great platform for science-related content. Researches could be funded with Steem, and immutability is a great tool to avoid plagiarism and scams... also (this is the potential use case that this platform currently has that I love the most) politicians statement, public fund management, public budgets information, etc, can be accounted thanks to the immutability of the content posted and the people responsible of lying, defamation, spreading fake news, will have no place to hide.
But, I'm curious about one thing. How do you think that immutability is preventing people from posting?
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Good to hear!
For people who need immutability, it's still there. But for the average joe, immutability is a bit of an overkill in terms of risk vs reward. See below.
Whatever you write, is here forever. You make a mistake, well, bad for you. You can't delete it.
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We always make mistakes, who hasn't? If I get your point right, you think that because people don't like to be reminded of their mistakes they are more thoughtful on what they write on Steem and tend to avoid writing casually (e.g. as most people do on twitter). The user's post frequency is thus diminished since he actually wants to avoid creating something from which he can be bullied before.
Ok, if that would be the case then people abusing the platform (I mean the social platform not the rewards, and with abuse I mean insults, harassment, racial and other forms of discrimination, deal with it since I have hundreds of thousands SP attitude) would not be that numerous. People can create Steem accounts without revealing their identities, is there a need for more privacy that complete anonymity?
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This is exactly the way Voice will work: Hash in the blockchain and content off-chain (using ipfs).
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Sounds reasonable.
Especially because there is a choice.
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Options are always good. I suggestion would be to use the idea of HIPAA requirements for healthcare and electronic medical records: the edited versions are what you see, but you have to have access to the logs of the previous versions.
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I really don't think it's possible. Once the block is signed, the chain must move on..
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Adding a link where the content is hosted, instead of the content directly? Def. possible - even after the creation of the post. But it would only make sense if frontends would support this option before the content is actually created and transaction broadcasted to the blockchain.
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So the chain data would be a link and the content would be called in a container so to speak by the frontend? That would be the only way. I wonder if the other frontends would honor it. It would need to be peer to peer I imagine since hosting on a server or cloud could be both costly and prone to attacks.
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I guess it depends on the usage.
That's a good point.
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Prefer it was all deleted. i also edit a lot so hopefully helps with space
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I would love the option yes. Somethings you would just love to never change. Plus if you want to deal with certain situations where security comes only with immutability existence, then it’s a must “optional”!
Example: I want something I post to be always immune to someone that eventually steals my account... and tries to change it. That way it will be secure.
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I vote for immutability.
In fact, I want frontend interfaces to provide the tool for every post and comment to instantly check their earlier versions of edits. I hate leaving the frontend I'm on to go to some other tool for checking former versions of post. It's quite impractical way.
Regarding scalablity of STEEM, what exactly is the current capacity of this blockchain for the maximum number of daily transactions? Sometimes I really wonder if it is actually ready for mass onboarding!
According to Blocktivity CUI, it should probably be somewhere around a billion transactions per day. So will it be easy to increase the capacity of Steem blockchain if daily transactions increase beyond that level on mass onboarding?
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I also have to add that reason . Blockchain is not divisible and there are more and more data which is not used all time . That option will improve scalability and enable to take part of others websites (For example iframe) to be displayed and reactable on every content .
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options would be cool
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How so? Wouldn't it be more interesting and beneficial for the sake of interaction that your posts, our posts, everyone content could earn upvotes, steem earnings, comments, resteems, etc, forever? Instead, that only for 7 days?
Uhm... yes, let's ask this to @tarazkp };)
But yeah, nonetheless, I get your point regarding avoid the eventual storage problem by reducing the cluttering and future size of our blockchain. Especially if we're talking about millions of users. :)
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I'm good with whatever is the case.
For me, being immutable prevents or reduces scams and frauds on the chain.
These people will edit and even delete their contents to leave no traces.
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This is so over my head, I cannot see it!
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Having the choice is great. I've previously thought about this too and if this comes as a proposal I'll support it and only use immutable storage for the text I consider highly valuable. It'll the best for everyone.
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Not on my laptop right now.
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• Yes, I would prefer to create content on Steem, where the actual content isn't saved directly on the blockchain, while still having the option to enable the immutability of content.
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No.
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You misrepresented this question by using the word "MY".
It would have been better to word it as follows:
There is nothing stopping Steemit and other Dapps from making additional features such as text that expires, text that can be deleted and text with end-to-end encryption but I think that should be separated from the "Town Square" text as Facebook's Mark Zuckerberg described.
Mark called Facebook the "Town Square" referring to the content being seen publically and said that he would start creating messaging apps with End-to-End encryption. This needs to eventually be done by Steemit too.
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No. What I wrote is exactly what I meant. Your content. Adding this functionality doesn't require an HF, so the question is directed towards end-users.
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I think it should definitely be possible to post text that is immutable - I for one want that for myself and I think there should be a badge for people who post nothing but immutable content if you allow people to post text that can be edited, twisted and lied about.
Politicians, business people and others is another example but as long as you make a clear distinction between accounts the post immutable text and accounts that should be trusted less.. I am okay with this 👍
Thank you @therealwolf
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End to end message encryption is already here, you simply need to login/sign the transaction you want with your private memo key and in the memo field you put an exclamation mark before the text, like so: !this is an encrypted memo. For the other person to read it they will have to log in with their private memo key.
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I am familiar with that and it's true but I think it should be incorporated with comments and posts if we want to address the ideas that @therealwolf is referring to.
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