Are women attracted by muscular male bodies? (Part 1.5 of 2)

in feminism •  7 years ago  (edited)

T2

Terminator 2 is one of my favorite movies. When Terminator Genisys (sic) came out in 2015, I knew it would suck, but I watched it for the same reason I watched T2 (that's Trainspotting 2): I was almost certain it would be worse, if not outright stink, but in the off-chance it was going to be good, I didn't wanna miss it. (I believe this is called a Pascal's Wager: story goes, Pascal was a French cinephile who was so anxious he might miss a good movie, he decided to watch all of them, and he ended up missing out on life.)

So where was I? Oh yes. When I watched Terminator Genisys, I couldn't help but notice how certain characters from T1 & T2 (that's Terminator 1 & 2) had evolved. Take a look yourself:

kyle 1984.jpg

Kyle from 1984

kyle-2015.gif

Kyle from 2015

Now I know what you're thinking: 31 years is plenty sufficient time to gain some muscle. (No? That's not what you were thinking? Well most of them I get right.) Thing is, however, the movies happen in the exact same timeline. As in, exact same date! Yeah! I know what you're thinking: what kind of a diet is he on! (no? oh well..)

Now we don't know anything about time travel's effects on the body's lean muscle, but those are some heavy gains. As scientists, we ought to get ourselves some more samples to study. Let's see what kind of an effect time travel had on Sarah Connor.

sarah 1984.jpg

There she is in 1984

sarah-2015.gif

And here she is in ... wait what?

Wait, I've been learning some html lately. Let me see if I can check the source code.

source-code.jpg

As I suspected. This is what feminism does to bodies.

Let's just move on, we don't wanna piss off anybody.

Let's see what else cinema has to teach us.

The Hitch Tush

I'm a weirdo. How weird you ask? Well, I watched Hitchcock's entire oeuvre, from 1922 when films didn't even have sound, much less color, to 1976. Hitchcock's career spanned the entire evolution of film. By watching his movies, I watched social mores shift, and I watched male and female ideals of beauty evolve. Women more or less stay the same from 1945 onwards. Yeah, I was surprised too! I thought we developed our current tastes in the 70s, maybe 60s at the most. But actually during the 50s they were already set in stone.

revenge.gif

Revenge, 1955.
Yeah, I watched all the Alfred Hitchcock Presents episodes too.
I know, I'm pathetic.

The Bond Bod

I have to issue a heavy NSFW warning about what I'm about to show you. If you are a high-libido individual you might want to find yourself a safe space where you can get off without getting disturbed. Ready? Let's go:

sean-connery.jpg

Ooh! Sexy!
I bet Sean Connery's voice is as easy to conjure up in your head as is Morgan Freeman's.

pierce brosnan.jpg

Even I'm getting aroused by this God-bod, and I'm a zero on the Kinsey scale.

I could go through all the JBs (that's JBs, not BJs, you pervert), but I'll save some space: they all look like regular men. Not a single exce...say waat?

daniel craig.jpg

I swear (and my then-roommate can confirm this), when I first heard Daniel Craig was going to play James Bond, this is what I said: But James Bond is supposed to be handsome!

Yeah, I know what you're thinking: I'm an asshole (bet I got it right this time didn't I!)

My roommate disagreed. What can I say. Gone are the days when it was something in the man's look or body language that conveyed handsomeness. Now women apparently look from the neck down.

But I know you're getting anxious to move on to the debate-part of this post. I mean, this series is based on an IRL disagreement I had with a friend. He was telling me women prefer muscular bodies. I was telling him "then why do you exist?" That sort of thing. So let's get to it.

Point-Counterpoint

Great Bodies: Up Close and Personal

Women may like looking at muscular bodies. But do they like living with them? Did my friend understand what having a muscular body entailed? Did he understand what supporting such an unnatural physique requires? And did he think women would find it attractive if they knew what went on behind the scenes?

This is an excerpt from Tim Ferriss' (I'm so not adding a third 's' to that, an apostrophe will do, The Associated Press Stylebook has my back) book The 4-Hour Body:

I was on a first date at Samovar Tea House in San Francisco. The incense, subdued global music, and meticulous track lighting made us feel like we were somewhere between a Buddhist-inspired Last Dragon and a Dutch coffee shop. Then, as if on cue, both of us ordered Schizandra berry tea. The description? 2000 years ago Shen Nong first identified this potent elixir as an “adaptogenic tonic” (i.e., it gives you whatever you need: energy, relaxation, beauty, sexual prowess). Things were off to a good start. After some flirting and playful verbal sparring, I made my move. “Don’t let this weird you out.” I took an electronic food scale out of my man-purse, which I use to carry odd items, and began separating all of my food so I could weigh the individual pieces. This was, of course, the beginning of the end.

What? I don't get it. I thought women liked muscular bodies. This merits further investigation! At the very least, the men themselves like having those muscular bodies. Right?

(Spoiler alert: the gorilla in the trailer kicks Tarzan's ass. Shit. I mean, how did we get so weak compared to them? Didn't human women like to have muscular men's babi...oh wait! Yup! They didn't! For some reason they chose brains over brawns. To each his own I guess.)

Now call me old-fashioned, but I believe if a guy only eats broccoli and salmon and does that 6 times a day on regular intervals that never deviate, that's grounds enough to break up with him.

It's not exactly the kind of behavior that exudes confidence either.

Btw, 1% more fat on Tarzan's body, and poof, there's no body. No shred of it remains. Natural bodies, mind you, are made to preserve fat. An ancestor who could preserve any amount of calories on his body more efficiently than another would be preferentially selected for. The amount of body fat you need to look shredded is the amount of body fat you need to die from starvation when food supplies become scarce. Tarzan Lord of the Jungle would not have survived in the Jungle. At least not looking like he does in that movie.

800px-Landdiving7.jpg

You know how Jesus is painted as a blue-eyed blond-haired white man? Well, Tarzan suffers from the same misportrayal when he's given a shredded body.
Source: Wikipedia Commons

Will the Real Alpha Male Please Stand Up, Please Stand Up

Look at us humans. I mean look at us objectively. We all look like babies. We look like fleeced underage monkeys. We look like someone's prison bitch. We look like we failed to thrive. We look like an abortion. An early one. It takes us a year to learn to walk. It takes us 6 months to be able to sit. Throughout our evolution we become more and more invalid. Why do women have sex with men who produce babies that look like that? Why aren't we born strong and muscular and equipped to handle life all on our own? It's almost - it's almost as if women chose Betas rather than Alpha Males. Or, perhaps...

Truth and Legend

"Women want a real man, who's gonna throw them onto the bed and bear down on them and do the deed to them," my friend is saying. "None of that romantic compassionate bullshit. They want a massive heavy body that they can surrender to."

"Why do you exist?" is my retort.

"Oh don't give me that horseshit!"

"Why didn't your ma and your grandma choose that kind of male you're describing? In other words, why are you describing him instead of embodying him?"

"Show me a woman who wants to have babies from an artsy-fartsy effete intellectual, probably looking like he's 13, probably won't be able to give her babies anyway."

"Done."

legend.jpg

John Legend has successfully artificially inseminated Chrissy Teigen, you'll be stoked to know.

"Oh come on that's one in a milli..."

"Justin Bieber. Bon Jovi. Michael Jackson."

"Please, I can't imagine those people having sex."

"If women liked the kind of 'alpha males' you have in mind, they'd all be listening to Metallica and Motorhead. Instead they listen to and fall in love with those 'effetes', because essentially they want to date themselves. This idea that they want a man to 'bear down on them' is our own creation. Just like superhero comics always feature muscular superheroes because they're all drawn by men, marketed to men, bought by men. Women would never draw men like that. This is similar to the kind of bubble women create around themselves with women's magazines."

Kamp-_Bambino_vd_ijzer_copy-.jpg

I think Cable suffers from the same condition as that Belgian Blue.

This Post is Getting Long

You can probably tell the above is a heavily edited version of the actual conversation we had. Let me give you a real snippet, copied and pasted from fb. You'll recognize many of the points in this article.

"Women more or less stay the same from 1945 onwards. It's the reason we still find women like Marilyn Monroe and others attractive. But show a woman today a picture of Shaun Connery when he was playing James Bond, and she'll probably say something like 'I'm not attracted to flabby old men'. It's now part of the actor's job to train intensively and inject himself with substances and live and breathe under his coach's instructions, in order to be able to lead in a movie. What drives all this? It might be men themselves. But the audience is fed with all this shite, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: men think that's what women like, so that's what they try to be, so women end up liking it."

Let me wrap this up with a quiz. Which of the two bodies below do you think women naturally evolved to like, and which one do you think women were brainwashed to like?

Young_Maori_man_dancing-.jpg

Source left: Wikipedia commons. Source right: Steroids.

If you answered the one on the right, you need to reread this post, as well as this post.

Don't get me wrong: women could have chosen the one on the right if they wanted to. After all, gorillas do exist, and they're much more muscular and stronger than that guy. Evolution can make that happen. However, women didn't choose that. They chose the one on the left, a real authentic native youth from the Maori tribe. He is the real Alpha Male - by definition, since women chose him.


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this is such a great humoristic piece. I love it!

Glad someone sees the humor in this! I often worry the joking gets buried under all the more serious points I make.

I agree with your roommate about Bond. I don't want to sound mean, but he ruined Bond movies for me. Pierce Brosnan is and always will be Bond for me.

I agree to that too. Pierce Brosnan was the best Bond, but the movies with him were the worst. I think threre is a pattern in Bond movies, the short Bond then the tall one again and again!lol. Maybe its a hollywood thing:)

Hi @alexander.alexis. Terminator Genisys was so lame indeed despite featuring my favorite actor (Arnie, of course).
If you want to know what attracts women, this is the most informative series I’ve come across on the web. No pickup bull and other nonsense, just the observable reality.

Interesting! Will watch! From the title, it looks as though I might be in agreement with the content. What I've noticed from experience and also from history, is that women tend to be attracted to whatever society says is attractive (i.e. status). This is basically decided by men. Men pick one of their own to raise on a pedestal (like an athlete), and women subsequently feel attracted toward that man. Luckily this is changing, now there's not just a single type of man that is attractive: it could be the jock, and just as easily it could be the goth-like loner who doesn't talk to anyone and just takes pictures with his antique camera, or a science-geek. It's become more diversified and that's what I'd like to see. I'd like to see people decide on their own, rather than being brainwashed, and when they do that you'll see 'likes' being distributed more evenly. When I go out, I see tons of beautiful people. Beauty is rather the norm than the exception. What I don't like seeing is unhealthy bodies, and that's both fat bodies and shredded muscle bodies.

Just finished watching. Many good points in the video. And very entertaining! I remember seeing the Karl experiment years ago, possibly in the form of an article.

I’m glad you liked it, though it’s not mine. And since you were talking about ‘likes,’ I’ll add here that ‘likes’ can be bought, lol.

I definitely prefer the one on the left! Though I tend to prefer the leaner types in general, which still excludes Sean Connery's Bond. I'm not really sure how the super-bulked-up trend started, but I won't be sad to see it pass.

So interesting post @alexander.alexis. I was sure that we left the body-builder body back in the 80s but i see it coming strong again. I think its not about getting more attractive for the girls, but being more intimidating to other men. The world is becoming more cruel, tougher and fearfull place to be, maybe this triggers this body building mania. Signs of our times...

Yeah what you're saying sounds about right: testosterone-filled competition among men. Probably insecurities too.

Also I think bodybuilding might be appealing because of its simplicity. Men are kinda single-minded and want to be given one task to do. So the instruction "get a great body" is at least something they can direct their efforts to, whereas trying to get women in other ways would be oh so complicated (since every woman is different), and would lead to confusion and the age-old "what do women want" question. Figuring women out is hard if not impossible, whereas getting a shredded body is at least doable!

I agree with your assessment, but I think it's a good thing. It's basically yin-yang balance. When women go too much in the direction of social progressivism, men inevitably have to balance things out by bringing back the older value system of physical prowess. From my experiences, steroids and psychedelics almost have opposite yet synergistic effects on the mind. It's the balance of creativity and rational action, or as Nietzsche puts it, Dionysian vs Apollonian. Steroids is the triumph of the Apollonian ideal. You get a sense of order, accomplishment, and clarity from lifting weights. Yes attracting women is a bonus, but it is much more like playing a RPG video game than a means to a reproductive end.

In the old days, a few men lived the lives of the archetype hero who goes through the hero's journey to bring value back from chaos. Nowadays, society has been democratized, so now everyone seeks that experience, some through movies, some through video games, some through bodybuilding. The delusion is in the biased mental focus. It's no different from the nerd thinking that he deserves all the women because he has memorized facts that women don't actually care about. Just because you enjoy a particular activity or way of thinking doesn't mean that you deserve the appreciation of others. This is true for everyone... bodybuilders are simply the most externally visible.

This is why I don't have a problem with bodybuilders. Many of my good friends are bodybuilders and I also know plenty of liars and insecure scammers in the community as well. It all depends on if you feel entitled or arrogant about your achievements.

I get what you're saying, and it's insightful, and your comparing bodybuilding to video games does get at the psychology of how many of these people think inwardly, it just becomes an obsession, they wanna get to the next level, define that specific muscle, etc. I myself lift and my brother participates in bodybuilding competitions.

My issues aren't with them per se. I believe in Chomsky's "consent is manufactured", applied widely. Whether women like unnatural bodies, or unnaturally intelligent brains, is all up to the media, very little is up to the women themselves. My concern is with brainwashing in society, disguised as individual choice.

I do think for example that women chose the nerd over and over again in the past. In a more primal state, Bill Gates (because of all his wealth) would own a harem of wives and gaggles of children. The bodybuilder, on the other hand, wouldn't get far in those areas. In fact, their using steroids means they're already on the nerd's path, who'll just discover a scientific way to look shredded without all the hard work and waste of time. Bodybuilding, in a way, has already been made obsolete by the nerd's way of doing things.

Yes, I completely agree with you here. I just don't really see a clear conflict here. To be the best in any sport, you need to know how to train, diet, and optimize your endocrinology. Healthy body is good for mental health and cognitive performance, and in turn, knowledge helps with fitness and hypertrophy.

Bill Gates isn't physically unfit either:

I don't think the problem in the world is that too many people are bodybuilders, but that too many people are degenerating in hedonistic obesity, which is skyrocketing the healthcare costs while also becoming a huge national security issue.

I'm totally with you on obesity! 110%! In general, I dislike unnatural bodybuilding the same way, and for the same reason, I dislike fake boobs. I'm also against things that harm our health, and steroids harm our health. And often the things people do "to be the best in any sport" are unhealthy also. Many of these top athletes, if not most, take drugs that are just too good for the authorities to detect, it's like an arms race between drug-takers and drug-detectors. In my previous post of this series I gave the example of Nate Diaz as someone who has a body "trained to its absolute potential". It really doesn't look all that different from an untrained slim body! The kind of body Thor has, at his age, and in such a short span of time, can only be made with drugs. Most women might suspect 'The Rock's' body isn't completely natural (!), but they'll think Thor's body is. Parading that kind of body in movies creates an unhealthy pressure for men, and unrealistic expectations (and consequent disappointment) in women. I wouldn't mind it if at least they came out and admitted they use drugs, for the sake of art (it does look good), but pretending this is real is actually harmful. I guess I'm making a point very similar to the one feminists often make, I'm just reversing the sexes for once. I don't think I ever saw a female body in movies that is actually impossible to occur naturally. But you see this with male bodies all the time.

Yes, I'm also against fake natties telling people who's possible on Youtube. The supplement industry is incredibly corrupt. In fact, responsible use of steroids far from the worst. Dorian Yates is still healthy after all these years. The worst are people who who put toxic compounds like superdrol and amphetamine into supplements without the consumer's knowledge. Not only that, most whey proteins on the market are fakes that contain far less protein than they claim and even toxic fillers.

I would mostly agree your sentiment that Nate Diaz is about the peak of natural athleticism... but I would say that he's not natural, because he's a paid athlete... he's taking some sort of PEDs... yet I would also say that it's actually possible to get maybe 5-10lbs bigger than him naturally if you train for size rather than performance. My examples of natural limit would be Frank Yang and Omar Isuf.

This video is an excellent explanation... It's just mass, but a certain 3D look, and even smell, behavioral mood, performance level, speed of transformation, consistency of look, etc.

Frank Yang and Omar Isuf are good examples. But still they devote hefty portions of their time to gymming. It's rather unfair to present this as natural, even tho it's natural! It is natural, but it's also a full time job. Also we don't know what role genetics plays in those cases: maybe they're lucky.

I watched the video. What would be interesting to see, would be to present those examples to random people, and ask them whether they think those bodies are natural. I'm pretty sure most men and women would think something like #12 & #10 and many others are natural bodies. We've gotten desensitized, basically.

Its a simple task indeed. Get a great body and seat around waiting for the woman to come.I can see so many wrongs in this sentence:)

Long-distance orgasms. Now that's a skill I'd like to learn! :P

Very interesting. I guess the terminator and Arnie have a thing or wo to answer for. When did the explosion of the muscular body thing happen?

Well recently I think it might actually be because of superhero movies! And I'm a fan of them! But people seem to miss the point: Captain America was lanky, his superpower had always been his courage, not his superstrength. Hulk got his brawn from his brain. Thor is literally a god. Iron Man: again, brains built the suit. Etc.

Maybe should be: "wisdom INseminator" :-)

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Damn this was a really good read, it didn´t strike me as long or even boring. You have some plausible arguments.

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Hey @alexander.alexis , would love to offer to come onto my podcast sometime.

It is about people doing remarkable things, whether entrepreneurs or not.
Where we talk about what you are doing, believe in and what difference you are making in the world.

Here is the playlist of the existing episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5CpCNPna6p95oJfKPew0N3ZT0k-khdgg

It is audio only over skype. Does this sound of interest to you?