Chasing Shadows - Proving A Round World Without NASA

in flatearth •  7 years ago 

sky-earth-space-working-flat earth debunked_cryp.jpg

We live on a lumpy globe, yet there are a growing amount of people who believe that the earth is a flat disc. That's right people, a growing number!

If you are not aware of the Flat Earth Society, then let me enlighten you; or should I say endarken? I am fairly sure the Flat Earth Society was started off as a joke, a kind of; let's see if we can use science to prove the world is a disc, even though it's not, and we can't, kind of joke.

In order to make the world flat, you have to tinker with physics and reality a fair bit, for instance gravity no longer works the way Einstein and Newton told us it does, and the way we observe it working on a daily basis.

The problem with people who believe this fallacy encounter, is that they also believe there is no way of proving that the world is round without actually flying up to space and circumnavigating the globe. This in itself is a fallacy of thinking, so I feel it is my duty to show you exactly how you can prove the world is round all by yourself, without the help of the largest space agency on earth.

However before I do that, let's explore how the spreading of misinformation can damage society, and leave us all worse off.

The Weapon Of Information

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The human brain has evolved to take advantage of shortcuts, in fact this isn’t exclusively a human trait, all animals have built in cognitive shortcuts which allow them to make snap decisions that might otherwise cause costly delays in decision making.

In the rest of the animal kingdom, a shortcut may be represented by a simple aural or visual clue. Like when a female turkey hears a certain frequency squeak, it instantly tries to mother the thing that the sound is emanating from. The bird will do this, even if the thing making the noise, is a stuffed leopard [CITE SOURCE: Cialdini influence]

As human beings, we are no less susceptible to these shortcuts than our animal cousins. The only difference is our shortcuts have evolved at a social pace as well as a biological one.

So a new mother is still triggered by the sound of a baby crying, however we also have developed social shortcuts which we follow on a regular basis.

Social shortcuts can take many different forms but they all perform the same function, and that is to help ease the ever increasing cognitive load that our brains are under.

So one such social shortcut we use on a regular basis is appearance; of course we’ve all heard the adage don’t judge a book by its cover, referring to how we shouldn’t always form opinions based on looks alone.

However appearance is one of those social shortcuts that enable us to make quick and useful decisions.

So if you are approached by someone in a suit, as opposed to somebody dressed in rags, your reactions to that person comes from a suite of standardised responses held in your brain, for people in suits.

Of course human society being what it is, means that there are people out there who are constantly trying to take advantage of these social shortcuts in order to manipulate you into doing something.

This is the reason public facing salespeople wear suits, in order to instil a feeling of trust. It is also the reason why you’re more likely to get an upgrade on an aeroplane if you wear a suit (just saying!).

The Power Of Wrong

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Imagine you have been in a plane accident and have crashed into the pacific ocean. Luckily you have come down near a deserted island, and you and 300 of your fellow passengers manage to make it to safety.

Now lets suppose that there are no doctors or scientists amongst the passengers and crew, in fact none of you have any survival skills at all. As you all start to explore the island, you come across various things that will help the group survive.

As a group you make decisions on how to use the survival tools based on what people have either read or heard about, or watched on TV, or the internet, meaning all skills are at least secondhand.

After a few weeks, you have all miraculously managed to survive, you hunt animals in the forest, catch fish in the sea, and every day a fresh beacon is made on the beach to try and catch the attention of any potential rescue planes or boats. All what you have done is a testimony to the human spirit, and what you all collectively remember from Google.

Now let’s imagine that one day you are out for a walk on the beach, despite your predicament, you are actually enjoying the feeling of the hot sand sliding between your toes as you walk. You round the bend at the far end of the main beach and you pass under some palm trees; there to your absolute disgust, you discover the person in charge of gathering fresh water urinating in the supply.

You are shocked and appalled, you start shouting at the offender, and ask the man why he has been relieving himself in the water supply.

He replies that because the group has been lacking certain vitamins and nutrients, due to its restricted diet, he does a wee into the water to supplement this. He then goes on to tell you, that like everything else that has gone on before, this decision was come to by consensus.

Nobody in the group has the direct biological knowledge to know if drinking diluted urine would replace vitamins and nutrients, or indeed if they were missing them in the first place. However enough people remembered from the internet, that drinking urine was beneficial.

You are outraged, and go to the rest of the group to tell them. To your surprise, most of the survivors are completely aware of what the man has been doing.

They say that they remember reading something on Google once about drinking your own urine in a situation whereby you’re lost.

You explain to them that perhaps that would be if you’re stranded and have no access to fresh water, which doesn’t account for the situation you all currently find yourselves in. You also point out that due to the amount of salts found in urine, which will ultimately dehydrate you, and the fact that it's a waste product, are also reasons not to drink pee pee.

Unfortunately for you, you’re asked if you are a scientist or have a degree in biology; when you answer no , the group simply do not believe you have the credentials to be arguing with their Google acquired wisdom.

There is no internet access on the island, and so when the group ask you to prove your version of the truth, you can’t.

The only thing you can do, is to source your own fresh water; to make things slightly better a breakaway group of about 25 people come with you, although this still represents less than 10% of the people on the island. It just so happens that more of your fellow castaways believe that drinking urine is not only beneficial, but necessary.

So it doesn't matter that you know that drinking your own urine, much less the urine of others is not beneficial, and is not healthy in the slightest, in fact the exact opposite. The fact remains that you are in the minority, and so the truth is determined by how many people are repeating a statement.

The original colony had several fertile males and females of childbearing age and so after years of not being rescued it grows from 300 to 450. Then after 20 years on the island, the first grandchildren are being born, and 20 years after that, great grandchildren.

You now live in a world, where everyone drinks everyone else's urine because it's good for them.

disclaimer: Drinking your own or any other person's urine is not beneficial for you in any biological way. It is not espoused as a survival tactic by amongst others, the US Army and the British SAS.

The Dividing Classes

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Just before I go on, I want to just make clear that I'm not ridiculing anyone for their beliefs, as I've tried to illustrate above, as we isololate ourselves on internet islands where pretty much everyone believes the same thing, based on secondhand evidence. Then anyone can be led to believe anything.

That being said, I do realise that there are different categories of flat-earthers, they will range from people who have just heard about it, read up on it, and then decided it was true. Right through to someone who has been into it for a very long time, and has publicly declared so on various platforms, and everyone in between.

How long you have believed in something, will have a correlating effect on your emotional attachment to that fact. Finding out something you've only just learned isn't true is not that big a deal, as compared to something you have held to be true your whole life.

So I'm assuming that if you are somebody who is 100% certain that the world is flat, and that all space missions and images from satellites and probes are fake and have publicly stated those assertions on many occasions, then you are heavily emotionally invested in being right, and no doubt you will reject the evidence I shall present below.

If however you are somewhere in between not sure, and absolutely certain, then there is a chance that you may play along with me, and do the experiment below for yourself, and accept the findings as evidence to a round earth, and therefore real space missions and the rest.

A Case For Shadows

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For this experiment you will need:

A couple of lolipop (popsicle) sticks

A large ball, at least basketball size, hopefully beach ball.

A bright lamp

White Card

Superglue

A tape measure

Your Eyes

Step 1:
Place 2 lollipop sticks onto a piece of card about 20 centimetres apart.

Step 2:
Position your powerful lamp above the sticks and turn on the light. Make sure the lamp is directly above both sticks and casts no shadow.

Step 3:
Pick up the card and bend it around your ball, so that it takes on a rough ball shape. Then glue the card onto the ball.

Step 4:
Place the ball with the card and lolly sticks in the same place as step 2, This time, notice the way it is impossible to manipulate the ball so that neither stick has a shadow when sitting directly under the light.

Summation: It is possible for a light source to cast no shadow over two distinct objects on a flat plane. However once the plane is curved, it is no longer possible for the light to be directly over both at the same time, due to the curvature of the ball.

The angle created by the top of the shadow and the top of the object can be used to work out the circumference of a globe, as long as the distance between the two original points are know.

This is what the ancient Greek librarian Eratosthenes did in the 3rd century BCE, when he heard that once a year, the sun hit the bottom of a certain well in Seine at 12 noon, indicating that the sun was directly ahead at that time.

He knew that Alexandria did not have the sun directly above it at this time, so on that day he measured the length of shadow cast by a pole, and calculated the angle of the shadow being cast. He then used his (incorrect) knowledge about the distance between the two cities (5,000 stadia) to estimate the circumference of the earth (250,000 stadia, approx 46,246 km).

Eratosthenes was pretty close to the figure we have today (40,075 km), and would have been a lot closer, had he had the exact distance between the two cities.

Conclusion: This experiment describe the differences between how light behaves in relation to objects placed on a flat surface, and a curved one.

If the experimenter finds the same discrepency between shadow angle on earth, then the only conclusion to come to is that the earth is not flat and is curved in at least the region the experimenter is viewing. The fact that this experiment can be recreated at any two, sea-level, longitudinal points on earth, indicates infinite curvature, or to put it another way; the earth is round.

Notes:
i.) The experiment can be done with tooth pics and a golf ball, however this is much more fiddly.

ii.) The paper does not have to be stuck on the ball, as one can simply measure out the same distance used in step 2.

iii.) The guidline of 20 cm is just that, a guide, the distance between the two sticks, whilst maintaining a point of no shadow over both sticks, will depend on the type and power of your lamp.

SO ARE YOU A FLAT-EARTHER? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOME KIND OF CONSPIRACY TO COVER UP THE TRUE SHAPE OF OUR PLANET FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON? OR MAYBE YOU TRIED THE EXPERIMENT AND NOW START TO BELIEVE WHAT WAS DISCOVERED THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO? AS EVER, LET ME KNOW BELOW!

Cg

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I appreciate your effort and thank builderofcastles (destroyer of reason) for bringing my attention to it so I could upvote you. But I advise you your efforts are futile. The flatearth thing is not about facts, evidence, logic - it's about retreat from reality. These people do not want to face reality, it is an inconvenient truth. The only conspiracy theory is in their minds - in fact they are the source of the conspiracy: of denial of reality, of irrational behavior, of delusional thinking.

Every "proof" they have is sitting on top of one or more alternative facts or fallacies, and as so as you remove one argument they prop another beneath it. Meanwhile they sit behind their computers (powered by the fruits of the same science that proves them completely wrong) laughing at you and the time you're wasting. Nothing except complete exile to a life without any scientific advancements would ever tempt them to admit they are wrong.

In the mean time (because exiling crazy people is somewhat shunned by polite society) maybe that crack squad of NASA conspiracy agents should quietly sneak into their homes and reprogram their GPS devices to work on the flat earth model. Then we just wait for them to drive off a cliff, or into a brick wall. More to the point, if they really believe the BS they waste your time with they should do that reprogramming themselves. If they did I'm sure they could sell such devices for a fortune to all their friends. But they don't believe it, so they don't do that and they haven't gotten rich selling a flat-earth model GPS. Or launching a flat earth satellite. Or a rocket that just needs to fly 3000 miles to land on the sun (which must be just a big yellow cold disk or we'd all be dead).

Their inaction on their beliefs and their reliance on the facts that are contrary to them speaks volumes for their conspiracy of deception and denial.

Hahaha, I am very glad that @builderofcastles (destroyer of reason) has brought your attention to me, for the reason that I am now following someone who has a lovely way of illustrating their points :-)

You are right of course, however I do think there is hope for a lot of these guys, they do genuinely believe, and so as long as they're not to far gone, they can be dissuaded from their errant beliefs.

Ultimately it comes down to the fact that with the internet, bullshit can spread much faster than before. So these beliefs are not harmless, as if enough people believe something, it becomes a fact, one which others repeat and teach to their children.

This is why I used the island analogy, so I don't see it as a waste of time, as these aren't directed at the hardcore fanatics, more so at the ones who are thinking, hmm, maybe there's something to this flat earth malarkey.

Anyways, I thought you might like my latest satirical look at the whole thing, here I explore just how many people would need to be in on such a conspiracy to have even the remotest chance of keeping this unfathomable secret.

https://steemit.com/flatearth/@cryptogee/flat-earth-is-real-the-confessions-of-a-new-age-physicist delf-renniel-rivera-flat earth-cryptogee_RZ.jpg

Cg

Indeed I did. In the atheist community, we understand one of the best ways to deal with proponents of ridiculously beliefs is to merely laugh at them. To treat them with any seriousness wastes our time and gives them way too much credit.

Haha steemit FE has trolls already! I love this :D How carefully placed words can conjure so much meaning into the minds of the unaware

What a long article with lots of name calling to finally get to the end...
where you have a proof that works just fine on a flat earth as well as a globe earth.

Ball earth - the sun is really far away and thus the light is for the most part parallel, so for the shadows to be different lengths, the earth must be curved.

Flat earth - the sun is really close. And thus the differing shadow lengths show how close the sun really is. By triangulation the sun is 3000 miles away.

Your "proof" would be more compelling if you could actually prove the sun is 3000 miles away which you can't because it isn't. You'd be blasted to ions in a fraction of a second if it was.

Next!

And you can't prove that its 93,000,000 miles away either.

The 3,000 miles away is calculated by triangulation.
But, both of these are made with assumptions. There is no way to tell how far away something is in space. It could be really big and far away, or really close and tiny.

There is a lot of evidence that the sun isn't a giant nuclear ball like we all were told in school. If the sun is 3,000 miles away, then we also have to rethink our understanding of what the sun is.

Disagreeing with me is good. But believing in what you were told as proof is wrong.
Thanks for your down-vote (flag) on my post.

You calculated 3000 miles by triangulation? I'd love to see your measurements and math on that or did you just read it on the Internet and swallowed it as fact?

How do you think they came up with 93,000,000 miles? Did they get out a measuring tape?

The data is out there. But it is all in how you define your assumptions.

People dont think its a flat disk really. They think its an infinite flat plane. It ties into simulation theory. If we are in a simulation they are more right than you are about the nature of our reality.


People dont think its a flat disk really. They think its an infinite flat plane.

Both demonstrably incorrect

Cg

Next, you are going to prove Unicorns don't exist either. I am telling Santa on you...

No! Please don't!! Me and the big man are tight!!! :-D

Cg

In the second video, the model of how the sun moves can be disproved by simply using your eyes. The sun does not orbit the earth like that.

Cg

I cannot believe we have to write massive, high quality articles like this to convince people the fucking world is round.

I feel like Steemit is getting dumber recently. This flat earth nonsense exploded since Berwick decided to word-vomit a post on it.

Have you been into space and looked back at the earth? Then i wouldnt pretend you have.

But we have thousands of satellites in orbit, who lose connection to different ground stations on Earth as they move around the Earth. My body has not been into space, but my eyes and creations have been :)

I'm guessing it's the massive influx of new users, and the fact we have literally advertised ourselves as a way of making money posting stuff online.

A lot of people saw the money part and lost all sanity, thinking they could earn millions and ignoring the fact there are actual human beings on the other side of the screen :/

Nice post

Round means the bible is false...Flat means Nasa is True..correct? I'm not religious nor trust Nasa...and if not one person every mentioned anything from birth I would assume i'm walking on a flat surface..nothing moving:) My Assumption only, cheers!

a clear demonstration that assumptions should not be trusted, and that communication, learning and science are essential for dispelling such incorrect assumtions....

Round means the bible is false...Flat means Nasa is True..correct?

Nope, NASA has never declared the world flat.

and if not one person every mentioned anything from birth I would assume i'm walking on a flat surface..nothing moving:)

That would be a stunning feat of non-observation, just using your own eyes you can see that the world is round. If you're in the Northern hemisphere the sun sets in the west and rises in the east each day.

Where would you imagine the sun goes if you did think we lived on a flat surface? You would see the sky moving, you would wonder about the Coriolis effect.

Your statement is valid about religion, if nobody ever told you about god you would have no clue, seeing as there is no other evidence for god apart from man-made religious texts and utterances.

However there is plenty observable evidence that the world is a globe.

Cg

Nothing round to me..hence "to me" cheers!

So good of you to try and educate the one's who we can still save :)

takes out popcorn
I'll be watching and supporting you, as I don't doubt this post is going to become a hot-zone of naysayers when the convinced flat earthers realize you've stolen their tag to try and educate them ;)

Great! Conspiracy? I don't think so considering many arguments have been advanced on the matter!

why post this in flatearth :p

Because there is no roundearth tag with anyone watching?

why not in 'earth' ?

Well, that's maybe a secondary tag, but do you think the people who it is addressed to actually read posts under the earth tag either?

do you think those people changed their believes over night and didn't get science like everybody else in school?

I'd be willing to hypothesize that there is a strong inverse correlation between a person's level of scientific training and the likelihood that someone is a flat-earther or otherwise generally "susceptible" to conspiracy theories and other common fallacies about reality. I'd love to see some psychological studies done about this.

There could be some other independent factor like a general mental cognitive difference, or something steming from sociological reasons like being desperate to fit in with a group where they feel special and privileged.

I think there are also some who do it for their own benefit, some who enjoy feeling empowered by having control of their audience of belivers (like religion), some who do it because they are just sociopaths who like to fuck with people and enjoy waste people's time. There are attention seekers who do it because it makes them feel important having so many people spending time and effort refuting their numerous "proofs" even if they have to put up with being called a moron on a daily basis. And there are probably plain old con men (notice how there are very, very few female flatearth "believers") who get pleasure from deceiving and tricking gullible shills.

But mostly I think it's a bunch of misfits who like fitting in with their clique and lack the cognitive and analytical skills to realize how foolish their beliefs are.

thanks for not answering my question..

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Hard to answer a question that equivocates two unrelated things - level of science education and how quickly you change your opinion on the shape of the earth.

My answer attempts to address both issues - probably people who spout this BS are not scientific, and probably they choose to do so for reasons not related to whether they believe in science or not. How quickly they decide to do the latter is anyone's guess. What do you think?

Um, because it's about flat earth...

Cg

Cool experiment. I remember the story of Eratosthenes from the good old COSMOS series :) (linked below).

Whenever people refutes an established theory, and promotes an alternative view, I always ask them to go predict something based on the theory they have themselves. :)

Great post, nothing's better than experimenting one-self

Welcome, friend !

Ready to meet the barbarian hordes ? (Though I am pleasantly surprised they haven't showed up yet !)

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

billions and trillions and zilions..

here's my all time favorite Carl Sagan moment.

Followed and upvoted. Let's make it together.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Holy shit! Is the fucking earth flat? I don't think so but, It's interesting that people would even consider to challenge such a thing! I have always wondered since I was a small child if the earth was flat but, my education has always proved this wrong. I eventually stopped questioning it and went about my life. I will research both sides. I will be doing this with an open mind of someone who does not know anything about either theory, and decide from there. I appreciate your time and opinion on this subject. I will begin with this experiment and then challenge the flat earth theory.

Thanks!

Excellent post @cryptogee and especially relevant with all of the false information flying around the world more rampant than ever these days (or perhaps we just know about more of it, I don't know). I really love how you demonstrate how we as humans can be easily convinced by consensus regardless of accuracy, we've all witnessed this in grammar school. Also worth commenting on is the amazing number of comments here from flat-earthers! I'm shocked that these people have never flown in a plane and watched the sun set over the clearly curved horizon. Even if I had any doubt about the round earth - which I don't, not even for one second - this alone has shown me clear evidence. Fun read!

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Must admit I didn't read this article, not because it might not be interesting, it's because I watched many of FE 'evidence' and it is so obvious Earth is not flat. Just wrote short article about Flat Earth sect...yes, that is what they become.

https://steemit.com/science/@cmoljoe/dealing-with-flat-earth-sect-2017812t164325662z

Thanks, I'll guess I'll just go ahead and not read your article either :-)

Cryptogee

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

hehehe I read yours at the end. Nothing personal, it's just I don't want to waste my time about articles proving Earth is globe. That is so obvious. It's like you read article about how red color is red.

earth is flat bro, maybe some day you realize that, if you open your mind you will see the truth. Research with an open mind and hearth, peace.

It demonstrably is not. In fact I am now treating all you lot as if you're joking and on a huge wind up. That can be the only answer for someone who claims to think the world is flat and has an IQ above 50.

Cg