Yesterday I wanted to upload a post about one of my real favourite series, titled "Hail Mary". Alas, before posting it I got rather confused and decided to hold it for now. Why? Because it showed the female-nipples of my model in some of the images.
Those photos are not pornographic in any way.
They are art.
And the concept behind the series was actually to raise questions about religion.
But Facebook taught us so well! : male-nipples - good, female-nipples - bad.
Here, free of the Facebook tyranny, should I also be worried about posting female-nipples? Are they such a scary sight for people?
Are we here on Steemit, still the same hypocrites that we were over there? Should I worry that I'll get flagged over it?
I started searching for answers and I must say- they all disappointed me.
There are of course, no written rules about it like in Facebook, however if a biggot whale would not like it- I could be crushed here very easily. And that is something I would like to avoid if possible :P
Going through the NSFW tag, there is way too much porn than I would like to see there, but in between you could find artistic images that I honestly don't think belong amongst all of the gunk action.
I found @ellis.marell there, who is a wonderful sensitive photographer, also published on Vogue. Because his models often are semi-nude, he is tagging the photos NSFW and by that burying them in that horrible tag.
Even the famous painter @reinhard-schmid was forced here to tag his PAINTING as NSFW, due to the PAINTED female-nipples!
And then, just as I was wondering, I stumbled upon this video from the BBC, saying that this beautiful Victorian painting showed here above, Hylas and the Nymphs by JW Waterhouse, was temporarily taken down from the Manchester Art Gallery, in order to create a discussion.
Influenced by #metoo and other feminist issues, their gole was to discuss the way women were objectified in the Victorian art.
Sorry, but to me it feels more like censsorship covered in a lame excuse for feminism.
Of course we should make sure that the muses (male or female) for the artists working today, are not being forced to do anything they don't wish for, that they should be in the age of consent, that they are being treated fairly etc.. we also know very well that in the past it was not like that.
Many muses used in the biggest art classics we admire, both male & female, were often under aged, extremely poor and badly treated. They did what they could to survive and used the beauty that the artists found in them, as a ticket out of starvation.
So taking down this one painting of what looks like under-aged bare-chested girls for 1 week, does not make it a valid consent-related discussion. After all, nobody will take down the works of Michelangelo due to his love for teenage boys, right? Shouldn't that have the same discussion value?
It feels like cheap propoganda and if that is what Feminism means today, it kinda shoots in it's own damn leg. Hiding it's own nipples instead of setting them free.
It was, after all, just a publicity stunt- no real substance, but everybody's talking about their gallery now! Even I do, right here and now.. So let's move on from them.
Back to Facebook- it's fight against the female-nipple is already very long. It started off by trying to destroy the bodypainting comunity (yes, female-nipples covered in paint are also bad and should be censsored. The guy standing next to the female model can be totally topless though, no problem there!) and continued by removing anything containing female-nipples; classical paintings, sculptures, breastfeeding moms- you name it! And it's not only nipples that bother them- Facebook also censsors anything related to HIV or Transgenders, for instance. Yes, we all here on Steemit know that Facebook is evil.
So why should we keep it's twisted morals here? And why should artists tag their artwork as if it was porn?
The NSFW tag doesn't only keep your content hidden from most users, it also brings in unwanted users- those the purposely search the NSFW tag for pornographic content.
I do not think that my artwork is pornographic and I do not wish for it to be seen as such.
So I'm still wondering what to do and how to go about it & would love to hear your thoughts of the matter and your ideas to deal with it, how do you think should art including female-nipples be posted here on Steemit?
Thank you for reading!
For more read about the painting's temporary removal:
- The BBC 1 2
- The Manchester Art Gallery website
Generally I don't understand the dissonance that Americans (and by proxy american companies like Facebook) have with Nudity and Violence. The way that these two topics are viewed in the States and in Europe are diametrically opposed. If you'd really want to be serious about "protecting people from controversial content" the very first thing Facebook should do is ban all advertising for political parties, but it's Pay2Win ecosystem doesn't want that. So where does that leave us? We are stuck in a perennial "Nanny Mode" on other social media that chases us in circles while constantly being robbed of your data, digital assets and fed with adverts (political or otherwise). In other words we are served a version of "the truth" and none of this is very conductive towards personal liberty or the strengthening of Democracy. The internet as such, especially in its earlier days, was very much an expression of freedom and experimentation but it has been bogged down since. Now with the Blockchain (and by extension Steemit) we are again in the fortunate situation to be able to "shape a paradigm" as it happens. Bringing this back to Erotica, Nudity and NSFW especially in an Art context, I think we are fortunate to have landed on a platform that is less discriminatory about these kind of things. We are all naked, there's nothing wrong with it, get over it, enjoy it.
Still, with NSFW you will always "stir controversy", so be prepared for it.
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Oh totally! That's one of those reasons why I love living in Europe and would never be interested in moving to the US :D
And yeah, what happened with the intented since created, is what I'm afraid already happening here, as there are those users who brought their old-fashioned, prude, point of views along with them.
I don't mind "stirring controversy", and never did, but let's be honest here- it only takes one pissed off whale to destroy a plankton on Steemit. It's still not the democratic utopian community we wish for it to be, where we all share a wonderful freadom of speech :P
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upvoted and resteemed - we need to get this message out!
I had commented on such subjects repeatedly - and I seen this Waterhouse painting in my newsfeed somewhere ((forget where, Guardian, Hyperallergic etc idk) - a image I had especially made for a blog is my digital adaption of the painting "Virgin and Child", by Joos van Cleve that I called called VIRGIN KNOB
..... and I managed to find my blog -
Wednesday, October 1, 2008:
Vatican plea to uncover Virgin Mary and show her breast-feeding baby Jesus
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:D This knob is spot on!
Would be nice if the vatican really would change their prudent ways, though..
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I had some interesting comment on my own related blog, also using the hashtag #freethenipple - a friend commented that this tag started in 2012, and there is even a wiki entry about it - so why is there only your and my blog found under that tag on Steemit? A grand total of TWO entries under that tag!
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I have noticed that as well and was really surprised!
#freethenipple is such a huge movement, I think it's time for it to be awaken here on Steemit too :)
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Yes, the vatican;). But the amount of male sex in the church as institution and almost every monastery is fine;). I spent 5 years in the summer time in a monastery doing murals. There were some dirty stories going on there.
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:D I can imagine... :P
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I think the fear for the female nipple in art is strange. Why should we accept nudity in art is the same as nudity in porn. It has a different function. I do not think it should be treated the same. I have to admit from my perspective it is stupid we make a difference between male and female nipples but not between art and porn.
I understand there is a nsfw necessity. There are places it is better not to stumble on nipples (but again, why would it be different if it is male of female. Other then some people have a feeling it should be different.). But treating them the same under one tag is placing artistic nudity under the same place as porn.
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I completely agree!
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I completely agree with @zeroooc , though like @martinamartini I think these absurd ideas are spreading to Europe. Thank you for raising the issue @shlomit and I did not feel it was forced at all. There is a definite effort being made to alter the definition of terms like 'feminism', 'racism', 'gender' and a whole host of other words that are nowadays used in ways that are quite foreign to my understanding of them.
America is at the forefront of the 'twisted morals' mentioned here in other ways too, given that the governor of New Jersey just voted against legislation to outlaw underage marriage because it was in conflict with religious traditions! This is in the face of evidence that legal loopholes are accommodating the marriage of children as young as 10 in the USA!
Society has gone mad and in so many ways backwards towards the middle ages. Non-gratuitous nipples in paintings and / or photography should never be deemed offensive to any clear thinking person.
As for the Vatican @thermoplastic - their hypocrisy takes my breath away!
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8o 8o 8o 8o 8o 8o HOLLY SH**!!! Really??? That is so twisted. And so sad. We really are going backwards to darker times :(
As if humanity has progressed as much as it can and now it's too much and they turn back, I refuse to beleive that this is where we're heading..
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"As for the Vatican @thermoplastic - their hypocrisy takes my breath away!"
@ricia you are painting the Vatican with a broad brush - criticism may be justified for many other issues concerning the Catholic Church, but here I think they should be lauded for lifting this veil of censorship. You are likely referring to what happened after the Reformation and the resulting Iconoclasm that marks the history of the Protestants, and in particular the Puritans that exported their brand of religious fervor to America, the basis of many of the more crazy churches you find there, such as the Westboro Baptist Church. As an aside, a joke that went around in my town among religios circles was: "The difference between a Baptist and a Methodist is that the Methodist can read" (not that they are any less crazy).
The Iconoclasm which took place after the Reformation was not much different than today's Taliban and the destruction of cultural heritage by ISIL.
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I commented before already, but let me do so again - I am referring to your line ".....why should artists tag their artwork as if it was porn?"
Exactly, I am with you on that 100%. I rarely, if ever, tag my artwork that way. You are right, it attracts the wrong crowd. I have a website dedicated to artists in my circles (grown to over 500 by now) and once, checking my Google stats I noticed a huge spike on one artist friends page. Looking further into this I find that most hits came via one social site in Poland. I don't speak Polish, so I had a Polish artist check it out for me. She said that site is a popular social site for teenagers, and the posting that went 'viral' in Poland had a link to my page with the words: 'you can see a lot of tits on there!'
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Yup, that's exactly what I don't want to happen. Yes, my models have beautiful tits, but I would never want to show them in a pornographic manner, it will be completely disrespectful for them and their bodies. They are muses for art and not porn stars. Of course, I have no control over the way that some idiots on the web might see it and share, but I would deffinitely not do it myself by using this tag, that is practically placing them there.
So to me it's beyond just attracting the wrong viewers to my artwork and not treating my own artwork with respect, it's also about shaming my models.
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"I have no control over the way that some idiots on the web might see it and share" - that was exactly the issue here - and my friend once had his access blocked by Facebook over a nude back view of an angel - so for a back-up in case he gets blocked again, he installed me (and another close friend) as administrator on his Facebook artist page. He is now on Steemit and doing very well. Most of his Facebook posts show only details, with a link to the images on his website.
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:P Facebook is a tyranny... I know so many that were blocked and their accounts were deleted, it's crazy!
Well, they just keep on sending all of the good people here, with their very own hands :D
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that's right! On Facebook, I am on account nr. 3 (one I can access only on my phone, another only on a broken notebook - the one I am using now on my good computer)- I posted several rants a few months ago. If I comment on a post and use a link, I get flagged for spam. I post stuff from Steemit, it likely gets suppressed in the news feed, because if I post a stupid meme right after, I get a ton of likes!
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Yup, that's exactly how the stupid fb system works, show's you only the things within it's platform :P Oh and especially if they're selfies or memes ;D
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and tons of ads from their corporate friends ......
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Totally, I was blocked twice. Remember that they deleted the World Bodypainting Festival Page with over 30 000 followers without any worning. On the long term tey will lose, I see it already because all the creative people are already sicknof it and will leave.
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Yes, you and the bpf were exactly the pages I was talking about.
I cant wait for that evilcorp to collapse!
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To be honest, I think they will have to come up with a lot of new changes if they want to keep people there.
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I have heard rumors that they are working on making their own crypto.
Which will make the world an even worse place :P
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.... and another blog of mine about a artist friend:
SUSANNAH MARTIN ARTICLE IN HUFFINGTON POST HIT BY FACEBOOK CENSORSHIP
Susannah's response to the censors: " .....haters of the nude can kiss the appropriate spot. Love to all."
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Thank you for sharing! <3
Ans for your support :)
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I actually like art provoking discussion but in this case it feels forced. As for the NSFW tag, I've used in on texts. No pictures of nipples. Just descriptions. It did not hinder my payout on that post.
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Exactly how I felt!
Ok, good to know it did not have an effect on your visibility in the end. Thank you <3
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Hello, @shlomit
Your amazing post is selected to appear on @artshares, where we promote, support and help artists just like yourself reach a wider audience on the platform.
Join our project by adding hashtag #artshares in your posts, and receive a free upvote from us. Let's help artists grow on the Steem blockchain!
http://steem.link/Y6GCW
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ON POINT!
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:*
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Right! Free the female nipples!
But...
Sometimes I think we are going towards a weird age where all our data are exposed and our habits controlled as never before, while on the other hand all drawings, paintings and sculptures might end covered up. Not a fig leaf... worse.
Maybe all classical art works and us, too, will get forced to hide our body like muslim women... Am I too pessimistic or only realistic? Watch what‘s going on...
And even more weird, at the same time, we are confronted with shameless performances of pop stars, with porn sites and porn photos where you are not prepared to see them. Porn free available for kids in the web, unconditional sex education forced by law at kindergartens.
Most unbelievable, regulations seem to affect actions that were completely legit when they were done. Usually, laws and similar regulations affect actions after the law was edited - and not before.
That brings me to a very doubtful point in this debate. What if this hilarious community gets overtaken by some antiliberal whale and we might face limitations like on facebook, from one day to the other? Searching for posts with unwanted content...?
Now that our world seems to drift into totaliarity and transhumanism, what will become out of this community? I do not want to think of it, but I think we should be aware of it and face it.
Because fear has never been a way.
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I totally agree with you. There is a complete extremism on both ends, on one hand we're told to cover up, on the other- childern's pop icons spread their legs open on billboards. We are living with such double standards while real art is blamed as the "bad guy" from all angles.
There is no telling what will happen here on Steemit, I only hope for a better outcome <3
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Hi my dear, I am sorry I just see your wonderful post. I am so sick of all that. One of the problems with Facebook comes from the fact that there are many Facebook workers in 3 world countries, who are those checking the content and earning a dollar a day. They have no clue of art and are mostly religious.
What drives me mad are celebrities like Kim K who’s instagram accounts is a celebration of their body in a cheep way, because many have only that to offer to world photos of their body, it obviously works. So some chosen ones make millions with it and artists creating art have issues?
Someone shared that tag under one of my figure drawing posts. I am against it. They could go and put some clothes on David statue in Florence.
But hey 50 shades of gray is one of the best sold movies... which could be soft porn too.
I will never use that tag connected to nudity. Humanity is getting crazy. Even churches had Adam and Eve paintings, and oh boy there were some breast involved.
The only problem I see with Steemit and it is a very big one, which will damage the platform is the unfair amount of money a few users make will horrible low quality content. I don’t care how many bots they have build and comminities they support, but when horrible content rulls the platform it is only a matter of time to infect it. I am observing it very well on regular bases. It is like the US economy, those with the trics do day after day more and more and the others less and less.
My general tendency is that I have to push my self to use social media. I got tiered of it.
🤗 hugs
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I completely agree with every word.
<3
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Hey there! Beautiful painting. It would be great if you can participate in my contest :)
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she didn't paint it, are you able to read?
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Oops, my bad. Thanks for pointing out @thermoplastic
I was tryin to get some artists take part in my contest cuz not many participated yet.
You should check it out too.
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ignore the spammers :P
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