History all over the world is often full of movements and existences based upon guilt. This is not just in the United States. It is all over in history, yet my perspectives will focus more on United States history as that is where I am from. The things I am speaking of with regard to the US are still current an relevant. I do suspect similar historical GUILT is pushed upon people in all countries in one way or another.
I don't own a slave.
I have never owned a slave.
This is true of my parents.
This is true of my Grand Parents.
This is true of my Great Grand Parents (I only met one).
I cannot say farther back than that.
I did not run anyone off of their land.
My parents did not run anyone off of their land.
My grand parents did not run anyone off of their land.
I suspect this is true of my great grand parents as well, but I don't know 100% so I won't state it is.
The point is this. I am not guilty of slavery. In fact I've never met a slave in my life time.
I am not guilty of stealing someone's land. I've seen people lose their land due to government corruption and other things, but I've never been party to it. In fact, my grand mother lost some land that way.
So since I know no living slaves, and I encounter people that bring up the slave card as though they need reparations. Reparations for what? I didn't do anything to you. Reparations for ancestors far removed? Okay... how far can we go back, as I believe everyone can find examples of their ancestors being wronged in some way depending upon how far we go back. So I guess if we're going to hand out reparations for suffering and ill treatment to those that never experienced it then we ALL can get such reparations.
An interesting thing about the stealing land. This comes up with Native Americans, it comes up with the La Raza movement, etc. Yet none living experienced that. None living perpetrated that.
In fact those cases had histories of tribal warfare and people stealing land before the events they are speaking of. So do we go back to the animals that it was stolen from? (speaking actual animals, not humans acting like them)
Furthermore, if we want to get on the stolen land bandwagon. I have Chickasaw, Choctaw, and Cherokee ancestry. I am very pale skinned. Yet if ancestors are all that matter I too can be making the claim. Yet inevitably I will be one that they say "You stole our land" when in fact I have never stolen any land.
Did my ancestors? I'm sure some did.
Their actions are not mine. I refuse to pay someone for something I did not do. I will own up to my own choices and the consequences of those choices but I will NOT accept responsibility for actions and choices made by someone else. It's simple.
I know that Feeling even Jan van Riebeeck who landed here by us in 1652 gets blamed for stuff, and most of our in citizens for fathers comes from central Africa ...
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I put it down to the world being so complicated, people need to simplify things with race so it's easier to get on top of it. "White people did such and such so because you're white you have privelege!" This kind of thinking is rampant on the Internet.. A poor Slovakian farmer who never left his village can be held accountable for genocide with this logic!
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Yep. It is everywhere. :( So all we can do is occasionally point it out so people notice it. If they notice it maybe they'll stop feeding into it. (could be wishful thinking on my part)
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even if there isn't recognition of the problem, that concept still needs pushback
maybe the folks pushing the propaganda won't admit the wrongness of their position, but other folk will see there is opposition to the idea; defeating pluralistic ignorance is just as important as convincing the "opponent"
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white skin..i watched video of some darkskinned firl and u what she was saying? "there's a lot of words in english, connected with black, that mean smth bad- black friday, black cat, etc.". how you like dis, huh? :D
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I totally agree. As far as slave ownership in Americas past it was nothing compared to what was going on in other parts of the world. Not to mention slavery and human trafficking that is currently going on. All this crap (guilt) is used as a tactic and that is all.
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I couldn't agree more. The whole thing boils down to people's inability to accept responsibility for themselves. Thanks for the responsible and accurate post.
Recently i got called a colonialist by a black chick in Vancouver -- i just laughed.
My ancestry is Irish, and hers is most definitely not "first nations" on the Canadian land mass. My point is, neither of us had any skin (color) in that game. It just comes down to people seeking power through guilt rather than work.
Allow me a Nietzsche quote:
The harshest persecutors of the witches, and even the witches themselves, believed in the guilt of witchcraft. Yet this guilt did not exist. Such is the way with all guilt.
Cheers! from @thedamus
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Dear god a voice of reason! You must be racist having written this post...
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I thoroughly agree with the points made.
Unfortunately, slavery still exists. That's the harsh reality.
Enslaved by the system. Stuck in the rat race.
I hope to see more people find their true freedom.
@incomepal
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Heheh... you're the second person to point that out. I wrote a post on race just prior to this one and I intentionally made that distinction in that post. I intentionally left it out of this one to see if anyone would make such a comment.
Two of you have. ;) Congratulations.
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Thanks for that. Great minds think alike!
@incomepal
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That's great man good post keep sharing :)
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I agree with you 100% nobody should be held liable for another's action. Let the past stay in the past, we can't go back and correct what happened. All you can do is make the best of today and plan for a fruitful future. So lets learn from our past but not let it hold us hostage in guilt. Thanks for sharing this lovely post
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Well, in Germany we have got similar issue, we call it the "Kollektiv-Schuld". It is related to the so called Holocaust and even todays Generation feel guilty for what happend. It paralyzes their thoughts, their creativity, corrupts their real attitudes and their self-confidence. Therefore I totally agree with your point of view.
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Just out of my own ignorance. Is this why Germany is letting in so many refugees?
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I am sure that is somehow related, although I can not prove it. It was part of our post war culture to not blame any minority for doesn't matter what they do (also bad things). Nowadays that seems to be a little bit different, society is more sensitive after two years of millions of refugees coming to germany, with few of them creating (also) some major problems. Leftists loosing popularity every single new election (see what happend G20 in Hamburg). Now society has to be very careful not to turn from an unlimited left oriented "Willkommenskultur" (Welcome-Culture) to a total rejection of humanity. Germany is all about stupid people creating mass dynamics that corrupt our Country either on the right or left political side. Hard to balance political trends;) We've got so much luck that our society is still somehow wealthy, otherwise could be much worse in my opioion.
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Thank you for writing this. I suspected this was the case, but I didn't want to take liberties with another nation. I bet this is true everywhere to one degree or another.
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I'm with you!
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Such a touchy subject still to this very day. I'm glad we can have this conversation because of the freedoms provided by this type of internet/webpage and because of the freedoms my country allows. Of course I understand throughout history and even today things have never been perfect and I'm guessing never will. But I agree I am not the person who did those tragic things to other humans. I hope through progress the wrongs of the world can be stopped. One by one. Thank you for the post and have a good day sir.
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We allow it to be a touchy subject and their is no reason for it. Yes, a very long time ago some white people had some black slaves. Skip over to another continent and black people had white slaves and black people had black slaves. This has nothing to do with who we are are now. If you are failing in life then look at yourself.
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You actually raised a great concern. People sometimes judges on the basis of the deeds of their ancestors. But why? We're not our ancestors. We haven't done anything wrong. We have a separate identity than our ancestors. We have a different thinking, different opinion, different face, different everything. So why people judge others on the basis of Ancestory?
Thanks for the article @dwinblood. You have opened eyes of many people with this post.
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@dwinblood you are on a tear today!
I wanted to see if I could find something about modern day slavery (I was thinking in the Sudan maybe?) but this is what came up:
http://www.endslaverynow.org/learn/slavery-today
Maybe the people who want redress for things that happened to someone else can seek assistance from there? Oh, but wait, that might expose someone else as being in a far worse situation than they are.
Tell them specifically NOT to go there.
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I watched a great video about modern slavery someone posted on my electric car blog... you should watch it- It's called Invisible Hands
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Deva believes Prison is in fact modern day slavery and there is certainly some truth to that statement if you look at the details of what prisons actually produce. That site you digged up looks pretty neat tho.
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I want to say that there have been some recent lawsuits filed against prisons for the working conditions and low wages but I'm not sure when or where.
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I actually believe as I did work with a company that works with them that it is in fact in the U.S. Modern Slavery. The 13th Amendment made it possible. It seems very much like a plantation, they just got smart and moved it out of the sight of the public. They also are taking over more and more of the jobs. So these days when I hear "Made in America" I typically react by thinking "Okay, but was it made by inmates or free people who need work?" For if it is Made in America they are claiming but it was done by inmates then I see purchasing such things as WORSE than outsourcing to another country. We are fueling the industry and giving incentives to pass laws to get more slaves... oops I mean prisoners. In my mind it should be NO VICTIM NO CRIME. :)
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I happened to see a White Privilege video that was pretty horrible and that set off today's train of thought.
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It appears to still be a rational, civil discussion though.
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Being Sicilian, I'm demanding reparations from, Italy, Germany, Carthage, France, Greece,the Moors, and everybody else that has usurped my homeland! Sicily has historically belonged to everybody EXCEPT the Sicilians. I want cash and I demand it now... No excuses!!!
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You left out the important part. Make sure you send the cash to @richq11 in Arkansas. :)
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Absolutely... Hell, for that matter, I'll come pick it up!
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Well as with everything I think there is a shred of truth in the white privilege narrative. Europe and the US have been very dominant nations in the last century. Wealth and power can be passed down through generations, there are still people even in Germany who consider themselves royal, so it not just race but also class and to view in a positive light: The opportunity your ancestors created by shaping the society as it is today.
I think with power comes responsibility and the west did a terrible job when it comes to that not just 300 years ago or during Nazi Germany. I think you are actually living up to that responsibility since you are a critical thinker and have tried to change the system from the inside.
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We have some very wealthy not white people in the U.S. I can't speak for Germany. In fact, from what I've seen they are close to proportional to the percentage of the non-white people in the U.S. So that doesn't really support the privilege idea based upon dominant, wealth, or power in the U.S. If you look at things purely based upon math it doesn't seem that way at all.
Things like BLM originally spawn due to disproportional police related killings of blacks when compared to what should occur for their % of the population. However, there are other factors at play too besides skin. I see culture as a much larger one. Culture would also explain the disproportionately high black killing black population also in the U.S. If this is happening as well then I'd expect higher frequency of law enforcement interaction. Basically, it is a lot more complex than skin color.
I can only be responsible for myself, and my own choices. What someone else does I cannot change. I also should not be held responsible for that person's choices. The exception would be if I endorsed someone to be my proxy for something. In that case, their choices do kind of become my responsibility too.
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yeah, most of the narrative makes no sense. I mean the spanish and other south european countries have dominated the world for a certain time as well and they are not exactly white people. You have rich people everywhere in the world who enjoy some kind of privilege and like I said I don't want to get rid of those, maybe a slight adjustment on the game rules but that is it.
You advocate critical thinking and self reflection as well, would you not say that everybody has a certain responsibility to be aware about how he influences the people around him with his actions ?
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Definitely. People need to think a lot more. This includes thinking about themselves, and how they impact things.
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Halito am akana!
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This is very true, but we are all slaves to this system of governance at the moment. This politically correct waste land! Even though it sounds like conspiracy talk every time someone brings it up, why wouldn't a group of people be trying to enslave us? I believe you get what I am saying you think along the same line if I am not mistaken. I don't believe I owe any reparation as well, this is the hand the people were dealt. They just want something for nothing, that is all! Thank you for the good post!
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Hahah... I was kind of expecting that response. I qualified that in my post before this one, and in rereading this post I realized I had not. I decided to leave it as is to see if anyone commented. Congratulations, you saw it. :)
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Too cool, again thank you for that post, things like that need to be said! Your post is loaded with all kinds of common sense, and I hope it spreads. It feels good to be on a social media site that has people that think like i do.
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I agree.
They need to come up with some form of statute of limitations for these types of legal proceedings.
But where would you draw the line?
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If it didn't happen to you then you shouldn't need reparations. We should be responsible for our OWN choices and never the choices of our ancestors. You should never imply guilt on someone for something they did not make a choice to do. That is born guilty.
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I couldn't agree with you more.
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~Interesting read. Nice one ~Nice to know you
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I have ancestors that owned slaves; I also have some native American ancestry (what tribe? who knows; 80 years ago, people were ashamed of such blood)
Whether good -OR- bad.
If we really want to play this dumbass game as a society, then I can look back and see that "one nigra wench" was listed as a family asset over 150 years ago, and although I have had a black woman on a collar and leash before, and although she had fun, I didn't get to keep her....
If I have to pay for this, I want my own wench!
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Hahaha... yep, not quite the same thing. 50 shades of @stevescoins.
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Happens with the germans and the "nazis", people tend to call any german a"nazy" as a big offense and many often say "all germans are nazis". The germans people from today are really nice people. Of course you can find bad people but like everywhere else. The nazis where they families not them and for many also not even they families were nazys, they are just guilty of been germans. It is crazy and unfair from my point of view.
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We are born to bw ourselves and to do what we see fit. Slaves or not people shouldn't judge through the eyes of the past. We need to stand up for what we are and have faith in better days, hoping society learna from the mistakes it has made previously, but honestly I don't think it will ever do until something happens.
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Nice post! Upvoted
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It would be good to have as much vehemence for any of the many situations that is the legacy of colonial mentality. It may be easy to declare distance from history, but when that history has clear impact on present day actions, it is very much a part of the present. Do we sit and allow prejudicial and racist activities (i.e., Indigenous continuing to lose their lands, is but one example) because 'I'm not that government, corporation, neighbor' doing it? We'll just let the attitudes that have systematically made themselves part of our societies, our laws, our economies, etc., exist since those things have nothing to do with us who are somehow not part of history, not part of the legacy.
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Continuing to lose is PRESENT DAY. That it is not at all what my article is about.
You know this I am certain.
I am referring to claims against land lost before the person making the claim was alive. I am referring to referencing slavery when you yourself, or your parents were never enslaved.
So yeah, you can nit pick, but I believe it was clear what this article was about.
If you are a present day victim that's a completely different issue.
And the funny thing let's say you DID go into the past on these issues that happened before you were even alive. White man came to America... They took land. Guess what the native/indigenous people did before that? They fought among each other and took/claimed land. History is full of that.
We could go back to Europe and make these claims.
Do I think using force against another person other than in self defense is ever warranted? Absolutely not. So I do not endorse the actions of the past, but people claiming it is their land, or latching onto slavery which never had anything to do with them is bullshit.
Every race and skin color on the planet has also been enslaved at some time in history. Do we all get to make claims against it due to some distant ancestor?
If something is done to you in the PRESENT DAY then yes you certainly have the right to do something about it and SHOULD.
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However you would like to express it, I will disagree. It is not nit picking when my point is that the legacy of colonialism, which includes racism and/or belief in eminent domain, for example, are alive and well today. The systems set up then, affect all of us now. To disassociate from it as if it is not part of our fabric today (whether we speak about North, Central, South America, Africa), is not realistic to any of these swaths of areas affected by colonialism. That history is very much a part of how we all view each other today.
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That is a very telling statement. In fact, does that not pretty much indicate you've made up your mind? That's one of those "No matter what facts, or evidence you may present, I will never change my mind" type of statements.
I'm not trying to attack you but I seriously would like you to think about that. It is not only dangerous, it is foolish to deal in absolutes of the mind.
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If I were blindly standing behind something I did not know first hand and/or study, then, yes, you would be correct--that would be dangerous.
Since I come from a point of study and personal experience, then, no, it's not close minded. I've considered what you posted many years ago when it was presented to me by others. To me, history is not, revisionist as it may be for most, something one can wholly divorce oneself from. Especially history that is still impacting our societies, today.
Your statement is telling to me in that I sense you need to win an argument after I've noted we won't agree that history of slavery or stolen land is not your responsibility and in my opinion, it is everyone's. We simply don't agree and life will still go on.
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That's so true!!! :)
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