I got downvoted because I don&#x27;t downvote people

shaidon (65) · 5 years ago

I found this via @creativeblue and I think it's disgusting what these trolls are doing.
They like to paint themselves as 'good actors' but are in fact 'bad actors'.
I fail to see how upvote bots are worse that downvote bots; it's hypocrisy.
They are the enemy of Steem's mission of mass adoption.

$0.24

4 votes

kharma.scribbles (57) · 5 years ago

"I fail to see how upvote bots are worse that downvote bots;" < -- THIS.

I said that on day one after the fork when the 'downvote without judging the content but just because they got an upvote from something they paid for" was only a murmur, but that murmur sure gained STEEM fast.. -- but you know what they say, sheep are quick to flock, and sheep are very dumb.. I pity this world.

Honestly, downvoting blindly is more of an abuse of the blockchain especially because generally an abusive shitpost gets found out, but it's rare that a punished decent post gets rescued.

Anywas, people are trying to boycott @likwid over this and on that front I just want to say in this case I am taking the stance that people can separate themselves from their business, especially when their business is not meant to represent them at all - in this case the business is a bot. Let's not grasp at straws here people. If something provides you with a service you enjoy, and it's completely removed from the enemy, I don't see any harm or fowl continuing to use a service you enjoy. Just saying.

It's like downvoting @likwid's posts just because they associated with a bidbot, but their posts were contributing positively to the blockchain (as does @likwid's service)..

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shaidon (65) · 5 years ago

Thank you. I need my downvote power for when there are genuinely bad actors.
People shouldn't be punished by bots for having their downvote power at 100%. Crazy stuff.

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lookplz (62) · 5 years ago (edited)

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago (edited)

That is a shit analogy. We are not talking people beating someone, we are talking about assholes downvoting for arbitrary reasons and forcing people to use an option they decided to opt out of. A voluntary option to downvote, when the users feels it is needed. Not a forced downvoting quota. This downvote fascists need to stay on gab or the ghosts of 8chan.

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lookplz (62) · 5 years ago (edited)

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lookplz (62) · 5 years ago (edited)

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago

It's not their choice when they are forced to choose only the options forced upon them by someone who isnt in a place to set rules. That isnt choice. This isn't "Free Money", people invest their time and finances into this platform. You are literally complaining about someone's RIGHT to complain on their blog on a blockchain... Grow the fuck up.

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago

Maybe you're just more 8chan drainage the way you think.

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lookplz (62) · 5 years ago

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago (edited)

Lol..nice come back..what ya got next? I'm rubber and you're glue? Then some more of your bullshit circular logic and a dash of name calling? Grow the fuck up. Maybe Steem is too much for you to handle like a grown up. LMFAO Forcing one to use an option when the didn't want to is not allowing them the choice. What a fucking snowflake. Melt much?

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lookplz (62) · 5 years ago

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago

Is this snowflake still melting and making up stats that they have no access to? Lol.

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago

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chunkysoupsvc (59) · 5 years ago

This person doesn't seem to be able to grasp that we all know that people can do what they want with their SP, but that does not mean they aren't a piece of shit for attacking people for bullshit reasons, like nothing. And they sure don't seem to grasp that this jerk doing this negates the other person's right to do what they want with their SP. The asshole is saying, one person can do what they want with their SP but other people can't. That's not liberty. Someone is trying to stop another person's liberty with the use of Steem Power. Can they do this? Sure. Are they a big piece of shit who does not like freedom unless it's their own? Sounds like it.

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Show 5 more replies

chunkysoupsvc (59) · 5 years ago

Dude you debate like a grade school student. Grow up then come back to Steem. You're bitching about someone bitching about someone being a dick and others discussing the pros and cons of it and doing it like a child. "They don't agree with me....so I'm gonna cry like a bitch and call them names and while I'm crying I'm gonna call them a bitch to try and swing it like I'm not the actual little bitch" - Lookplz.

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chunkysoupsvc (59) · 5 years ago

But please continue to act like a little bitch because you debate like child and no one agreed with you. Boo hoo hoo.

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Show 1 more reply

lookplz (62) · 5 years ago

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crypto.piotr (70) · 5 years ago

I just posted my own publication about your case @livinguktaiwan

Yours,
Piotr

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4 votes

creativetruth (67) · 5 years ago (edited)

Yes, I agree use of downvotes to force opinions on others is super wrong. I was not a fan of the last hardfork, and now downvotes are doing exactly what I thought they would do to quality posts. They are reducing their rewards and visibility. People are becoming blacklisted as well, with challenging/unfair hurdles set by the blacklister to be removed.

I am 100% guilty of not downvoting often too. When I downvote, I always comment why, and I always offer to compromise or change the downvote if the author is being considerate and honest. There is no rule that each account holder has to police and downvote daily. To enforce a made up rule for manditory slave labor and conformity is an abuse of power.

I can tell engagement with comments has great value to your posts, so I think that posts like this should be encouraged. Rewards from posts like this are benefitting small curators, which is hugely important to our steem ecosystem to grow strong and healthy.

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7 votes

muscara (67) · 5 years ago

I tend to write a comment why that post/behaviour might lead to down votes. Often these Steemians didn't know that what they were doing was wrong or not accepted. Always better trying that first before flagging without telling why.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Totally agree with you, Steemit can be daunting even for those who have been around for a while and many still make mistakes or aren't aware that what they say may be in appropriate.

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mintymile (67) · 5 years ago

I wanted to downvote a bad story, did not downvote, but told the author it's downvote worthy... I am also afraid of downvoting other's post, they might take revenge and downvote you back anyway... that's not cool...yawns...who knows some whale downvotes my quality post tommorow): , insecure...

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

I am 100% guilty of not downvoting often too.

Please don't say this @creativetruth, no one should be guilty of not downvoting enough or not downvoting at all - that was exactly what I was "accused" of. You should only downvote when you feel a post justifies it, and if there is none then that's fine. It's actually good because that means Steemit is healthy.

I certainly agree with your comment about engagement, and that I do admit being guilty of not doing enough. Throwing a post out on the blockchain and collecting the rewards 7 days later is of course financially nice, but it does little to grow the community if there is no engagement when everyone is sitting in silo.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

!engage 30

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@creativetruth you have received 30 ENGAGE from @livinguktaiwan!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

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crypto.piotr (70) · 5 years ago

Dear @livinguktaiwan

Happy Chinese New Year to you :)

I've read recent post by @likwid a moment ago and I've noticed your conversation with user behind this project.

It's obvious that you were very polite and received response ... I would consider being simply rude.

Funny enough - I was actually considering using likwid services, but they have lost my interest and I think there is no space on steem blockchain for users with their attitude.

ps. I just upvoted your post with my account and @project.hope (around 300k sp) to show my little support. Don't let pepople like @transisto bring you down and discourage you from being active on STEEM blockchain. We've lost enough users already because of downvote abuse and I hope we won't lose another one.
Yours, Piotr

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5 votes

mintymile (67) · 5 years ago

I went to that likwid link you posted and I was like why your brought me to this page that is giving attractive service to liquify Steem and stuff... until I saw your comments there that showed you don't recomment that service because of the actions of likwid...

but that service looked attractive but who is to say I can rely on someone to do that job giving them beneficiary benefit of 100% , amounts to centralisation and we crypto enthusiasts are against centralisation.

So stupid that people misuse their downvoting power, I wanted to downvote a person
s story coz it was awful... but I did not want to discourage with downvote, although I get downvotes on nice posts I do all the time...

I think this downvite stuff should be removed...not fun, it's used as we know just like that, not responsible. it's stupid for sure.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Downvotes do have their place here, and if used correctly can be for the benefit of the platform. Sadly, there are always some who abuses the power given to them

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thank you for your support @cyrpto.piotr, I would have been very upset a year ago to be bullied like this, but I've seen more and more of these type behaviour around recently to not get upset now. I've gone past my initial anger and annoyance stage and am not letting this affect me. I'm going to be hanging around, so don't worry!!

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braaiboy (65) · 5 years ago

Hey @livinguktaiwan

I saw this post because of a "memo spam" msg from @creativeblue... I put that in inverted commas because this is the first time I've received such a memo and actually clicked the link... and then your post moved me enough to actually warrant a comment... So before I start MY rant, shoutout to both of you... good job! \m/

I heard about @likwid some time back and thought it was a great idea... made a mental note of it, because I can see myself using such a service in the future. However, the person behind it is obviously an asshole, and as such won't ever use it purely out of principle now.

Sorry to hear about your experience, the only advice I can offer is that you should simply ignore it, and move along. The community will hopefully react in the same manner as they did to another clown, @transisto, and his @sadkitten account. STEEM(it) has many good whales, but unfortunately it's also full of entitled idiots that got lucky by getting into STEEM early, amassed a large stake, and now have an unwarranted god complex. Fortunately/hopefully the community will react to these fools and they'll simply fade away.

Once again, sorry to hear about your run-in with the kindergarten posse... Fuck them!

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8 votes

enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

Just @transisto being random again.

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago

Being "random"? That is not being random. That is choosing a shit reason to downvote people and acting on it.

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enforcer48 (68) · 5 years ago

It’s amongst the weird things he does. So, I’ve conceded to random. Lol

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steemadventures (46) · 5 years ago

"Weird" is a nice way of saying "being a jerk".

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crypto.piotr (70) · 5 years ago

Dear @braaiboy

I can see myself using such a service in the future. However, the person behind it is obviously an asshole, and as such won't ever use it purely out of principle now.

I actually had very similar impression. I just heard about @likwid several days ago and I was considering using it's service. But I don't think I will ever do that.

ps. I've noticed that you didn't post anything in 3 weeks. Hope you didn't give up on Steemit yourself.

Cheers, Piotr

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braaiboy (65) · 5 years ago

Hey @crypto.piotr,

Nope... haven't given up at all... Dec & Jan are traditionally just slow months (business and video-making wise), so I don't have too much to post about and share... but will def. be back at it again from Feb.

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crypto.piotr (70) · 5 years ago

Hi @braaiboy

Thanks for prompt reply.

I've noticed that you resteemed @taverngames post lately. Did you try out this game for yourself?

Also would it be okey if I take few minutes of your time and tell you little bit about curation trail I'm working currently with few other guys from @project.hope? Perhaps our efforts would be something you would like to support.

Is there any way I could DM you? Via discord or telegram?

Cheers,
Piotr

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crypto.piotr (70) · 5 years ago

Hi again @braaiboy

Can I ask you for little favour? I joined contest called "Community of the week" with project I manage and I would be grateful if you could RESTEEM it and help me get some exposure and drop some encouraging comment :)

Link to my post: on steemit or on steempeak

Thanks :)
Yours, Piotr

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mintymile (67) · 5 years ago

Ha... wealthy and mighty whales!!!

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks for your comment @braaiboy, I really appreciate it. Luckily it seems like the good whales outnumber the bad ones otherwise this place would be a nightmare and we'd all be walked over and abused by the bad guys who think they can do as they please.

I'm hoping this will all pass over very soon, thanks again!

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

!engage 30

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@braaiboy you have received 30 ENGAGE from @livinguktaiwan!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

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the-bitcoin-dood (63) · 5 years ago

I think I've down voted maybe 3 posts in 4 years. I tend to down vote blatant spam or people seriously abusing the system. Just let it go. It's their karma not yours. Just keep doing you, most times those people are just looking for a reaction. If you feel something is worthy of a down vote, then by all means it's your right. Don't feel obligated though if it's not in your personality.

Happy New Year!

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5 votes

livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Same here, I've probably downvoted a handful of times since I've been here. There are a lot of shit posts around but my downvote won't make any difference to them, so there are just things you learn to live with, even though it's not ideal.

Thanks for dropping by.

!engage 20

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@the-bitcoin-dood you have received 20 ENGAGE from @livinguktaiwan!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

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andrepol (58) · 5 years ago

Wow, this is incredibly stupid. Thanks for sharing. There's probably something to learn about here for everyone, @likwid included. Thanks to @creativeblue letting @logiczombie now via "spam memo" ;) When I visited your blog today I went there out of curiosity. Good thing! Let's give some kudos here... @tipu curate

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tipu (67) · 5 years ago

Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 0/3 - need recharge?)

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rycharde (63) · 5 years ago

Hi @livinguktaiwan, a modest tip of appreciation:
$trendotoken and !trendovoter .
Also, please check out my Second Nonsense Writing Contest.
Thanks!

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trendotoken (59) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @rycharde, you successfuly trended the post shared by @livinguktaiwan!
@livinguktaiwan will receive 6.48126562 TRDO & @rycharde will get 4.32084375 TRDO curation in 3 Days from Post Created Date!

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freebornangel (73) · 5 years ago

You should follow the downvote trail @steemflagrewards runs?

Then you are being responsible while not having to give more than oversight on what you downvote.
If you don't think the post is abusive all you got to do is speak up.

If everybody did this the price might recover a little.

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dongkong (71) · 5 years ago

I Leaved This Platform For These Motherfuckers. They Do Downvotes Without any reasons.

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misschance (50) · 5 years ago

Wow, It's very surprising and a complete misunderstanding for my part. It's really a shame to see how Steemit is advancing and evolving in downvotes and it's nonsense. The most shame is when we newbies have paid the price for nothing it's sad instead of just explaining.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

Don't worry @misschance, Steemit is not as bad as it sounds, I guess I was just unlucky. At least I am glad I can take the hit (unless he takes his craziness to another level) so rather me than newbies. Don't get demotivated by all this nonense.

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misschance (50) · 5 years ago

Yes, I hope not to be targeted and I do not demotivate myself Steemit is the future :)

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kerrislravenhill (63) · 5 years ago (edited)

The problem of that logic is it may likely trigger more downvote and retaliatory wars causing far more damage in the longer run, what a way to promote Steem to new comers.

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muscara (67) · 5 years ago

Exactly. Downvoting just to be seen doing it, that's the most stupid thing I saw an Steem. And there are a lot... well... we all know what I mean ;)

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

That's one of the reason I stay away from the downvote war if possible. Everyone has a role here and I think one should do what is most effective and works for themselve, to make Steem a better place for everyone.

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proto26 (57) · 5 years ago (edited)

Happy Chinese New Year.
That downvote was uncalled for. They are supposed to be meant for spam, hate speech, and the like aren't they? Not simply because someone disagrees with you. I'm as mad as you are.

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muscara (67) · 5 years ago

Well... A downvote simply means "I don't think you should get rewards". Why you think that - you have to decide.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks @proto26, I'm passed the mad stage now, just have to accept there are idiots in this world, in real life and in the virtual world.

Thanks for dropping by, appreciate it

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muscara (67) · 5 years ago

Kindergarten... Well, I started in August 18 and have to say: "terrible two" tantrums are a special of quite some high rollers ;)

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fleur (65) · 5 years ago

That’s definitely annoying! I am getting more downvotes too but don’t know why! Happy New Year 🥳

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

A lot of those downvotes don't have any impact at all, they're just a pain in the butt and have nothing better to do than to waste space and RC, so I wouldn't be too worried ^_^

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niallon11 (68) · 5 years ago

Annoying yes but some of the oldest users are some of the worst people here. Due to building up a lot of stake over the past few years they think that they can do what they like. Ignore it and keep doing what your doing.
Over time a lot of these larger accounts power down and with a greater distribution of STEEM the voting is going to be a lot more balanced.

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steem-plus (73) · 5 years ago

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creativeblue (61) · 5 years ago

Hi @livinguktaiwan

You're very right. I just wrote my own comment under original post and hopefully @likwid / @transisto will reconsider their actions in the future.

You can check my comment (and his reply, assuming there will be any) here:
https://steemit.com/@likwid/recent-replies

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thank you for voicing out your opinions @creativeblue. I'm not sure they can be reasoned with at all, some people just can't be helped, but I really appreciate it. Thanks once again for trying to make Steemit a better place so we don't lose more users

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trendovoter (41) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @rycharde, 5.13% upvote has been shared with your successful call on the post that shared by @livinguktaiwan!

^{Support @trendotoken projects by delegating : 100SP , 200SP , 500SP , 1000SP , 2000SP}

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project.hope (64) · 5 years ago

That's awful @livinguktaiwan
I absolutely disagree with this reason. Upvoted and resteemed

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thank you for your support on this issue @project.hope. I really appreciate you helping to raise awareness

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bengy (73) · 5 years ago

Wow, that is really messed up! Definitely not going to be using their services...

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crypto.piotr (70) · 5 years ago

I fully agree with you @bengy. It's such a mess up reply :/

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steem-ua (64) · 5 years ago

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Your rank has not changed in the last three days.

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tunnelrat (53) · 5 years ago

Thank you for bringing this to my attention @livinguktaiwan. Apparently some of my rented voting power on Minnow Support was used to upvote their post, unaware to me. For @transisto and @likwid to abuse the beneficiary reward features for personal gain is - while not surprising - a dangerously abusive stance to take for the future of Steem.

Even more atrocious yet, is to take the stance that down voting at random (including plenty of quality content) is a stakeholder's responsibility. That is skewed at best. You may be able to argue that down voting inappropriate content is warranted and even necessary, but to indiscriminately abuse your Steem Power is tyrannical.

For what it is worth, his post received a 100% down vote from me just now. I encourage others, whales to minnows, to also take action. This platform doesn't belong to tyrannical whales, and if it does, then I will no longer support it.

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muscara (67) · 5 years ago

The problem is that deep down at the roots is a good idea: we have free downvotes and they are there to be used. But every Steemian has to decide for themselves whether they use it and when.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Totally agree, and how one uses their voting power is their own business, they should not be dictated by someone else

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tunnelrat (53) · 5 years ago

That is the bottom line.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks @tunnelrat, I really appreciate your response.

Downvote does have it's place here as Steemit is far from perfect as we all know, with all the shit post and abuse going on. Ultimately its up to the community to come together and make this a better place and to for Steem to grow. I'm somewhat overwhelmed by the response here and am grateful to know that there are still so many people who care about Steemit despite the Steem price.

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tunnelrat (53) · 5 years ago

Agreed. Systems will always be abused, which is why they need to be improved. Thanks for bringing up this topic, it takes more guts the more you have invested.

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wittywheat (50) · 5 years ago

Thanks for sharing! Sorry that this happened to you. It is one of the most absurd excuse or reasoning I've ever seen.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks @wittywheat. It's beggars belief some of the things people do here. I'm sure we'll see even more absurd things in the future, but hopefully it won't deter any of us.

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braaiboy (65) · 5 years ago

Oh yes... and have some !BEER & !trdo tokens too ;-)

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trendotoken (59) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @braaiboy, you successfuly trended the post shared by @livinguktaiwan!
@livinguktaiwan will receive 1.69319363 TRDO & @braaiboy will get 1.12879575 TRDO curation in 3 Days from Post Created Date!

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afril (69) · 5 years ago

Beberapa kali postingan saya juga di downvote.
Saya pikir mereka hanya iseng, tetapi perilakunya merugikan banyak orang

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steemitboard (66) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @livinguktaiwan! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You received more than 100000 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 110000 upvotes.

_{You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking}
_{If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP}

You can upvote this notification to help all Steem users. Learn how here!

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mintymile (67) · 5 years ago

I am very sorry @livinguktaiwan , I hope that account does not downvote your post ever again. I am feeling scared now, like now actually): ...not correct to downvote post if its not a bad post you know. It's completely unfair!!

Anyway ... good day

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks for your comment @mintymile. Please don't worry, bad things come and go, just hang in there.

By the way, I noticed you posted a few interesting travel posts recently. I curate for the @steemitworldmap, if you're not aware of us, please check out the account and how to pin your post on the Steemitworldmap. My work there is one of the things that keep me motivated on Steemit and to help worthy quality authors
https://steemitworldmap.com/

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mintymile (67) · 5 years ago

Thanks, @livinguktaiwan, I love your attitude. Thanks for giving me the @steemitworldmap details as well!!

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upvotewhale (47) · 5 years ago

You got a 7.63% upvote worth $0.004 from @upvotewhale courtesy of @creativeblue!

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moosedio (39) · 5 years ago

Damn bro that really sucks. Don't let it get you down. Keep supporting quality people on Steemit and everything will be alright.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks a lot for your comment. Definitely will continue to do what I can to support people on Steemit.

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rosauradels (64) · 5 years ago

Things will be seen, I have seen that you flageed when you are wrong, and it takes away all the rewards and not only the benefit of that mistake, which in my case was for using a label that I should not. I was penalized all the reward and even that of other people.

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wakeupkitty (75) · 5 years ago

We all get downvotes and you earn well. How come you only care now it takes 10% of your earnings and not if the little fish loose that and not even receive a payout or lose their rep within two days time?

Welcome in the world of Steem.

Posted using Partiko Android

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

How did you know I didn't care before? Because I didn't write a post every time a little fish got downvoted?

If you read my post properly, my issue isn't about payout. People can upvote, downvote , remove or change their vote as they see fit, I have no control over that. My issue is people throwing their weight around, telling me what to do with my VP. That's none of their business. Even my mum doesn't get to tell me what to do and don't punish me when I dont listen to her.

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fionasfavourites (66) · 5 years ago

This is completely ridiculous @livinguktaiwan. I can't remember who called me over here, but I do have to concur with everyone who says it's your right to exercise your (down) vote. Or not. I get downvoted by (happily) fleas. So, it makes little if any impact. I did have a few massive downvotes and then I cashed in my SBI and that stopped. It raises another set of questions, though, doesn't it?

And, your question -

Since when did Steemit become a kindergarten?

It's not Steemit, so much, but the children who play on the platform. IMO.

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks for dropping by @fionafavourites, really appreciate it.

I don't think anyone is immune to those annoying little fleas, just need to ignore them. A sad fact but a reality in this virtual world. And I heard about the SBI issue, it's a pity that innocent users like yourself was dragged into it. I'm glad it's stopped now, though probably not in the way you wanted it to.

Thanks and take care!

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fionasfavourites (66) · 5 years ago

No, nobody is immune and I've grown a hide ignoring them. Yes, I think the SBI issue is sad because the people most intended to benefit have been the collateral damage.

And you take care, too!

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

"You are free to do as you want as long as you do what I want."

This seems to be the mentality of the whales around here. Which leads to the question:

How is this... Freedom?

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trendotoken (59) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @livinguktaiwan, your post successfully recieved 8.17445925 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

^{@rycharde earned : 4.32084375 TRDO curation
@braaiboy earned : 1.12879575 TRDO curation}

^{To view or trade TRDO go to steem-engine.com

Join TRDO Discord Channel or Join TRDO Web Site}

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kona (66) · 5 years ago

Happy CNY and take care~

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks, hope all is well in HK

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gabrielatravels (67) · 5 years ago

That happens to me as well. The same reason: not downvoting others while I never bought votes or used bid-bots, but still getting downvotes on almost all my posts. The worst part was when I was downvoted with a big % which also cut a big part of my payout ..but then I thought about asking nicely for a reason, but never got a reply, just another 5 accounts of the same person who downvoted my post again. and again, and again..

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livinguktaiwan (74) · 5 years ago

Oh! Has this stopped now?

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