Quick Thought on Steemit Catfish

in introduceyourself •  8 years ago 


A recent post has identified the rise of identity theft on steemit. Some savvy individuals have taken it upon themselves to create introduce yourself posts that are nothing but lies. Now that we know these posts were lies we feel like our trust was violated.

Perspective is Reality

In an effort to cope with this violation, it is helpful to remember how this person made us feel when they made the post. That feeling was real, even if it was ultimately an illusion. They gave our community something we wanted and spent time and effort producing original content.

Many people who have posted pure fiction and gotten upvoted because we liked what we saw and we appreciated the effort. The catfish introduction posts are just another form of fiction writing that appealed to the voters.

In other words, the individual gave us all what we were looking for and put at least as much effort into their creative writing as other posters.

Going Forward

As Steem grows it is important that we move away from #introduceyourself posts and look for higher quality. People should still post in #introduceyourself so that we have a public record of who you are. One day that post might just enable us to recover your account if you get hacked.

I encourage people to stop voting on introduce yourself posts, but instead use the post as means to add people to your list to be followed. This way you can see more content from them in the future.

#introduceyourself is a great place to discover new writers that might be worth following. That alone should be enough reason to post an introduction. Financial rewards will come later.

Summary

Don't fret over spilt milk. People are going to game the voting and that is part of the "cost of doing business". Over time we will learn and voters will become more savvy. These catfish are just helping us learn. That which doesn't kill us will only make us stronger.

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Thanks for the response to this. However, I would also like to point out that many of the identity thieves I have caught are actually plagiarizing introductory posts off peoples blogs -- they are not writing "pure fiction" as you say; they are actually copy-paste stealing the thoughts of real people.

Yes...and photos and names. I don't see how identity theft can be called "fiction." In my opinion, if something is a fictional work, it should be obvious as such....like "here's a short story I wrote." We see this in movies where in the credits it will say something about how all the characters are fictional and any resemblance to actual events is coincidental or something like that. Identity theft is illegal. According to this source, "One key piece to identity theft crimes is the use of specific kinds of information, commonly known as personal identifying information. ...[including] your name, ... photographs, or anything else that you can use to identify yourself." The penalties can include incarceration, fines, restitution and probation. @dan's post seems a bit dismissive in my opinion.

That is a good point, if it was copy/paste and we didn't catch it then that is a problem.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Some folks be like

Sounds legit..

A few hours ago i posted 2 solution for the problem https://steemit.com/steemit/@kuriko/response-to-the-rise-of-identity-theft-on-steemit-here-s-my-solution-to-the-problem-anyx-ned-dan Seems like if you don't have a name in here or your not a whale to boost your visibility you don't get people attention.

I wouldn't agree that you simply don't get attention outright, but you certainly get less attention until you have built reputation aka SP. It's a bit unfair but not that different from real life. You've gotten 58 votes on your post which aint bad, considering the devs aren't doing much in terms of "reaching out" for solutions. Good luck anyway. Steem on.

I am not the type to complain I promise! I don't value every single ones of my post at high rewards! I just believe in this project as a whole and when I wish to send out a message to the community about potential solution to a specific problem I hope I can reach them all! I don't have the best english either so that could also put me in a difficult position! lol but yes steem on buddy!

Kudos! You have a great attitude. :)

Thanks for the update Dan. Can we also try to do something with the whale bots upvoting shitposts ?

https://steemit.com/@benjojo

This writer was pretty good IMO, but went rogue on the autovote whale bots.

Whale upvote bots are a systemic risk to Steem imo.

I love that Catfish show :) i know that’s of topic but still.

:)

My brother and I just had this same conversation. Is it the reality of the post that makes it meaningful, or the mental trip (emotions etc) it puts you through? I think it is a bit of both for me personally, but I hope this doesn't start turning Steemit into a witch-hunt platform. Downvote the fakes and trolls, but lets try and not accidentally spread this to innocent users.


Scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail - gif from giphy

@dan Slightly off topic, but along the same lines of 'gaming the voting system' I have noticed (along with a few others), there are 30 something accounts that seem to be instantly (<1min after posting) upvoting posts with the tag 'steemit'. Just thought I would post in case you are considering changing the curation reward algorithm anytime soon.

I would imagine this is one, or a few individuals trying to get around the 30min curation reward by upvoting the same content multiple times...

Such an interesting part of the evolution of this platform. I was plagiarized for the first time...ever....if my life... on steemit. I think it's a compliment....? The community stepped right up and called the person out! Great people make up the back bones of this community for sure @dan! :) Here's the link to my post that got plagiarized and also ended up on a shout-post! : https://steemit.com/life/@missjessica/this-shouldn-t-be-so-serious-can-you-still-have-fun

I'd like to think of these catfishers as still being proof of work, and adding value to the system even if that work is completely bogus.

It is testing the system and causing new approaches to pop up to deal with the hassle, which as Dan said is completely healthy for us. Creates more healthy work as a reaction.

Can't prevent all users from doing this, but as a community we also can't put a" lid on the bucket" at the sacrifice of getting new users to post.

This post talking about not voting up #introduceyourself posts (while being in the #introduceyourself category) has 155 votes already. How many more will vote for it because they want to be part of those, sweet, sweet curation rewards?

Heheh. Kidding aside. Great post. I was tempted to vote it up but out of respect for the content, I will follow the wishes therein.

People chasing curation rewards will learn quick enough that they won't get much until they Power-da-fuk-up.

Yep. There are people I've noticed who are powering up their main accounts and their bots as well. It's going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out. This post is now up to 175 votes while asking people not to vote for it. As much as we'd like the world to be made up of rational actors... well, yeah.

I would love a feature to be able to disabled monetization on posts. It might encourage more sincere discussion. Ah well.

I was actually thinking this morning that perhaps #introduceyourself posts or even #verification posts should be used and somehow made sticky (in the user's blog/post feeds) and that they should contain links to as many social media accounts as possible. Perhaps a short video of the person saying their user name and date stamping could be a big benefit for verification as well. Cell phones and other ways of recording videos are so prevalent these days the excuse for not being able to do this really shouldn't hold any water. I really, really enjoy what's going on here and I want to see it do well.

Edit: Also, maybe these verification/introduction posts should be blocked from collecting a payment and they should literally just be for verification.

There are also potential legal implications from catfishing, especially on Steem, since you are attempting to directly profit by stealing another person's identity. Even on Facebook it is illegal (as far as I know) to make a fake profile of another person. Here, you add in the fact that catfish are profiting from stealing those identities, and it is almost certainly illegal.

This is what real leadership is - stepping in promptly to set things straight.

Such situations were bound to happen - in fact I'm surprised how few cases of catfishing, identity theft and abuse there has been thus far.

Kudos, @dan. Steemit is safe in your hands. :)

I've enjoyed reading the introduction posts for 2 weeks now, and will continue to do so cause I feel its better for new legit users to get a warm welcome with votes and comments instead of just comment bots and no votes which may discourage them from being active. Although I agree that the posts some times got too many votes and value, I encourage young minnows like myself to also welcome them.

But like you said most of the value shouldn't go to those posts, and this will also remove the need for fakers to continue spamming that tag.

Anyway, great response time by the team! (the thread about the identity theft was created just yesterday) Glad to be a part of this all!

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Thanks For Explaining the situation . I really hate that people are pretending to be other people for upvotes , I saw a post where the person said he was Mark Zuckerberg! , People are getting more greedy by the minute

tag challenge! @dan is right

we just need to be more careful with who we upvote. and be wary of photoshopped verifications (most are easy to spot, though admittedly I fell for one too).
I love the introduceyourself posts when they are genuine and have some substance.
so when it is clear they are genuine I'd still upvote them. In doubt best not.

Thank you @dan.
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help around here.

@Dan It is fine to say that people shouldn't fret over fraudulent posts but all they do is serve to make the platform look bad and discourage new people from being honest and posting the truth.

If I'm a newbie and I find that people can profit from posting fake stories why wouldn't I just copy the same pattern for a big payout?

This will just heighten the public perception of everything cryptocurrency related being either "shady" or at best on the boundaries of legality.

The community doesn't need any more of that kind of press.

Let me introduce myself. Congrats for the purpose of this community. You are doing an awesome job. What do you think steemit could do in the future as a blockchain infrastructure for projects like this one

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment

Cute girl with a steemit sign? $3,000!

I really think that is a great idea, I do think at v the minute introduce yourself is a annoying part of steemit.

That's right ! Go ahead!

Oh no, not just before my intro post!

😉 Thanks for this post, you nailed it on the head.

@dan
I have a question pertaining to the #introduceyourself tag/section.
Are re-introductions permitted/allowed?
If so, are they frowned upon in any manner?

For instance, I joined steemit not knowing what to initially post and not knowing how the platform worked, but now that I've been here a few days, I have a better idea of what to post and how better to convey the message I wish to present. Thanks in advance!

excellent post upvote

wellcome

It's interesting to see these intro's and think that some of the more amazing ones, while they may be fiction are still rather entertaining to read. I appreciate that you and others are aware of this. Sadly my first introduceyourself was more of a "Please help" post that basically showed I hadn't really done enough research prior to posting my first intro :) anyway life goes on and hopefully my approach, although slow, will still win me some friends in this community eventually.

The persons who have lied should be sanctioned, blocking his accounts "fake" and his principal account , and the respective loss of benefit in the above mentioned accounts.

A few terms should be added to agree in the register, included that the deception is a motive of definitive expulsion of the page and loss of the existing quantity in the account.

Other ways of check can be implanted, for example registering the mobile, the person who wants to be deceptive will need a mobile for account and though he will not avoid the deception it can diminish it.

It might allow the only account for IP, if some person uses two accounts in the same IP it will have to ask for permission to the staff and to check to the users extra that to use happiness IP, of the way that the staff indicates them.

Also the check for ID card as it is done in the pages of exchange of coins or virtual portfolios, let's not forget that here we are working with money and in any occasions of a considerable value.

I hate the liars.

Regards.

To think that I was working up my guts to do my own #introduceyourself telling everyone about me and this burst my bubble a bit :)

I agree with @dan's point and I don't:

  • I agree that short term it will stop the catfishes from conning us through fake introductions.
  • I disagree, because stopping to vote for posts in the #introduceyourself or any other tag for that matter is not a healthy, long term solution. Community effort, attitude and action is the appropriate solution aiming for long term results. It's very simple: If we can't clearly tell who they are by the information in the post, we don't vote. They are discouraged and stop posting. Fiction introduction of yourself is a lie because you're not introducing yourself and should not be allowed.

It's just like with bots. If they clearly say they're a bot and have performed x or y action because they are programmed that way, I'm good. If the bot pretends to be human and congratulates me for my awesome post that he didn't even bother to scan...well, I'm not ok and i don't appreciate the illusion, thank you.

@dan: None of what I mentioned above means that I don't respect your opinion, or that I don't respect the unimaginable volume of work and sacrifice you've been through to get this baby (Steemit) born and gift it to the world. For this I will be forever in your debt and forever grateful. Keep up the amazing work!

Thanks for the exposure to such info, it is really important to be aware of this. Namaste :)

Actually, these are good points. #Steemit is new territory for many reasons, and this is the learning curve. It's going to cost some people some time, effort and heartache figuring it out.

There aren't any rules in the Wild West of #tech, so use these things as lessons and build from the #knowledge. That's how we create #culture, right?

This happens on every social media platform. The only difference here is that money is involved. Maybe a verification system could be implemented in the future but that takes manpower. Hopefully something on the blockchain would suffice.

  • Not a catfish. Representing in my hand made Steemit Jacket

The idea of the introduceyourself tag was a way for everyone to know each better since the site was pretty small. Now it is nearly impossible to be sure someone is who they unless some else vouches for them. Then some has to vouch for the voucher and on on. So it's best not to vote on them anymore unless you know they are real. If they are are interesting but you are not sure then just follow for now.

Valid point. I would like to see articles that comes after their introduce yourself. It makes everybody introduce yourself more fair game knowing everybody in the same seat from now on and a way to verified if your account does get hack.

Thanks for your positive message!

Now I see why there are police bots on this platform... Thank you for the heads up. :)

> I encourage people to stop voting on introduce yourself posts, but instead use the post as means to add people to your list to be followed. This way you can see more content from them in the future.

The sooner the better. It's nice to give new people a good experience but it's just tough to know who is real, what is legit, and whether this person will add value to Steem in the long-run.

The Whale in my Swimming Pool

I think it's beneficial for the whole network to reward quality new people that join, so rather than urging people to not vote for #introduceyourself's , I think we should simply urge people to only vote on those that include strong proof (a video and a link to social media are the two best proof). Neil Strauss's proof on Instagram, for example is something that others should follow. Getting folks like that on here and engaged is how we make the whole platform more enjoyable and more valuable.

Agreed. I have made that argument that fiction entertains and even as fiction it has value. But introduceyourself seems silly as a venue to generate a high amount. Thanks for this post

my sight at all the points in life

Thanks @Dan. It is good to know that steemit is watching/listening.

I have noticed several days ago that people stop upvoting #introduceyourself by themselves. Bot-robots are much more important - they should be more intelligent and fast. Cheetah-bot is great.


I love STEEMIT... oooh.. me too! is not impressive? yes yes yes yes yes!

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

If #introduceyourself posts are disincentivized, new users may find it harder to catch on. Even a low-earning intro may be significantly higher-earning than other types of early posts and may create a can-do momentum that carries noobs through likely dud experiences. I completely agree that "As Steem grows it is important that we move away from #introduceyourself posts and look for higher quality." Almost anyone here knows better than I, but I'd like to consider approaches to denying catfish that are super delicate with fragile noobs.

I'd love to be able to suggest something useful, so here's a shot:
What if linking to multiple types of relatively secure account increased your validation strength? If one can sign-up via an existing Facebook or Reddit account, could linking to both, adding a validation photo and other secure methods add up to a quantitatively more validated identity? This isn't a field I am knowledgeable in, so forgive me if that's been ruled out. What I especially like about it is that it would allow picky members their choice of validation combinations and remove a barrier to shy, ugly, writers (like me; shamefully still hasn't validated out of the same dysfunction that makes me also live in the woods, bathe in a bucket and decide to understandably not immortalize the painfully bad selfie I ineptly botched.) Maybe a validation strength number could be part of members' profiles so that curators can see how much each member cares about being trusted by how much proof of identity they are willing and able to provide.

Or, what about being validated by friends in some form or other. As writers on Steemit gain respect, people just start to know who they are. Maybe that could be harnessed, in some way, though it obviously misses the first flush of catfish.

I'd love to hear feedback from anyone, especially more thoughts on validation methods that weed out catfish handily while still giving the real people brave enough to introduce themselves incentive to share even more authentically.

Just posted my #introduceyourself article.
Thanks for giving me the motivation I needed.
m2c

Hey i really like your posts
also following you
can you please check my post and give me some upvotes and resteem my post :)

I am really loving the value based system here on Steem. I'm celebrating 5 days now and it amazes me how a community polices itself so well. Thank you for the post @dan

I will agree with that suggestion. People to tend to pretend or cooked up stories about themselves due to a lot of #introduceyourself post raking rewards. @introduceyourself post is a great way to welcome new aspiring writers and create a following to yourself. Once you have following, user can write a great post and rake rewards from the voters. It's a much noble way to earn here and you will earn the respect of the community as well.

Disable #introduceyourself from the right side for a week and see the impact on people's behavior

Spilt milk is not good, let's put some chocolate.

I think this problem has been resolved by the community self policing.
now every Introduceyourself post goes under tremendous scrutiny.
identity thieves and plagiarizers are getting exposed and downvoted quickly, while those catching them rewarded.
the steem's free market has found a way.

Exactly, we can only grow and learn. Those who are willing to wait will succeed. Thanks for the motivation dan. Would be cool if you take a look at my latest story, you are mentioned in there :)

Well said, Dan. It's kind of like if someone gives you a really good counterfeit bill. It may as well be real, and serves the same purpose.

When there's an avenue to exploit something, you have to expect people will do it, and all you can really do is learn how to close the loophole and move on.

That's actually really forward thinking of you. I tend to agree - I see it that way. It's what we wanted and we lapped it up. :) - it's all good.

I was just scolded by another user for using the #introduceyourself tag. I agree with dan, I do not understand why individuals are groaning over small matters. Thanks!

Well you misread what @dan said up there. He wasn't advocating that it's ok to spam #introduceyourself with posts that aren't introductions.

Good post dan appreciate the response to that thread. I agree while its good to see people introducing themselves ultimately we need stay aware that people arent always who they say they are and that these people are playing into the fantasy of others.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I admit I just used #introduceyourself in a post that was not for it, for two reasons:

  • I knew that's where a lot of people were less critical and may consider upvoting my writing
  • It was my first real post into my life and not some random information I thought others might find useful

Neither of which I feel bad about.

One thing I often think about is - should I post some of my better work/stories before we can properly follow each other? If someone reads something good I don't think they're really trying to follow people since it isn't fully working yet.

Great work, keep going!

  ·  8 years ago Reveal Comment
  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I will wear a make up and bikini holding steemit sign . thinking how much i will make