I read articles like Why do we Value Soldiers Over Scholars, which misleads readers and propagates false perceptions among the community. I respect the author (@calaber24p) for stating his opinions, but let’s not confuse his perception with the reality of facts. I think even scholars would take issue. His statements like “Soldiers provide little value to no value to the world”, “every soldier that joins will be doing noble work and making the world a safer place, but of course that isn’t true”, and “…low IQ individuals do well in the army and it is because they don’t question orders or dwell on the repercussions”. Unfortunately, these opinions may be perceived as inferring fact, when in actuality they are untrue. It may have the unfortunate effect of reinforcing false beliefs and perceptions among the impressionable. I would rather people know the truth, see the facts, and be able to recognize others who are making uninformed, but personal opinions. For the record, I believe we need both scholars and soldiers.
If it was a perfect world, where disagreements were settled intellectually, calmly, and with words and not violence, then yes, there would be no need for soldiers. But this is not the world we have created, nor is it the social of organism humans are. There has always been conflict throughout human history. It is a woven tale where aggression has created empires and crushed those without the means to defend themselves. Those nations with militaries that can influence other nations, protect trade routes, and keep warfare at arm’s reach from their lands, also survive and thrive better. There is a value to maintaining an effective military, unless you have a guardian who is doing it for you.
Let’s be clear, there is a real need for the military. History is chalked full of examples of those without a means to defend themselves who were destroyed or enslaved. It is most often the case. We cannot ignore history’s many lessons. As the great philosopher George Santayana said “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” And Winston Churchill’s variant if you prefer "Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it." Both philosopher and soldier agree.
I hear uninformed opinions in this forum painting the U.S. military as a bunch of uneducated volunteers tricked into service by marketing and then soon regret their indentured servitude under the unfair grip of the government. Nothing could be further from the truth. First, the U.S. military is one of the most educated military forces on earth. In fact, the U.S. military academies are considered some of the best universities in the world, producing leaders and people of character. The U.S. Military Academy at West Point, the Naval Academy in Annapolis, and the Air Force academy in Colorado Springs are prestigious and are the top #1, #2, and #3 public schools in America.
If all you think soldiers study is marching in a line, shooting a rifle, and following orders, you are sadly mistaken. The most popular majors at United States Military Academy include: engineering, social sciences, foreign languages, literatures, and linguistics, computer and information sciences and support services and engineering technologies and engineering-related fields. For the Air Force Academy they include: engineering, business, management, marketing, and related support services, social sciences, multi/interdisciplinary studies and biological and biomedical sciences. Popular majors at Naval Academy include: oceanography, chemical and physical, political science and government, general, economics, general, history, general and mechanical engineering. I dare say, anyone making the statement our military “is not well educated” is probably less informed than the people they are attempting to belittle. Here is the proof.
If you think they only come from poor communities, you would be wrong again. Per census bureau data and independent think-tanks, three quarters come from neighborhoods at or over the median income. One quarter come from the richest fifth of wealthiest neighborhoods.
Perhaps you think these men and women leave the service when their initial commitment is fulfilled, after they realize their “mistakes”. You would be wrong again. Retention and re-enlistment is very high. So much so, in the past few years, the Department of Defense has had to let soldiers go or force early retirement.
How can the perceptions be so wrong?
The military attracts people who are smart, motivated, and want to make a difference in themselves and on the global stage in defending the American people and values. The U.S. is a purely volunteer military and one of the few which mandates each soldier think for themselves. This is different than most other conscript forces which demand they only follow the orders above and if there are no orders, wait for them.
One of the main reasons people are enticed by the military is for the COLLEGE assistance programs. And there is a significant number of people who re-signup after their commitment is over. It is a career. One which people are passionate about. So much so, sons and daughter, grandsons and granddaughters, after seeing and understanding the challenges, also choose such a career path. They have aviators, rocket scientists, biologist, neurosurgeons, computer experts, engineers, and other incredible and highly educated people in their ranks. So let's dispel the myth these are stupid and uneducated people. These are not drafted, poor, uneducated people.
They have meaning, value, and benefit our country. They do so much, books are written about it. Tracking down terrorists who kill innocent Americans, defending ours and our allies borders from crime and aggression, contributing to UN Peacekeeping forces around the globe, setup Ebola treatment centers, delivering aid to countries after natural disasters, building critical infrastructure, rescuing ships and people from disaster, and they rush to the aid of our allies who might be invaded or intimidated. They are also standing guard as a defense against aggressive countries who may consider using nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons. Yes, general uninformed public sees what they expect to see, a foot soldier carrying a pack and rifle in some foreign country. That is easy to criticize and fabricate stories how they were tricked to do dirty work. But the reality is far different. Ask the news journalists who interview these soldiers, are embedded with their units, or ask them directly! The soldiers themselves will tell you why they are there and the value they add, not only to the people of America, but also to the people in those countries they protect and give aid to. The US military has saved far more people than they have killed. Saved from civil war, genocide, disease, natural disasters, and starvation. Give them the credit they deserve.
Informed sacrifice.
One last point, these people and their families make sacrifices. Real sacrifices. Every. Last. One. "All give some, some give all" (true of the soldier AND their families). They have a sense of honor and commitment most people cannot even fathom. If you have never been in a life threatening situation, a real one, with brothers/sisters at your side, fearing for your life, you won't understand. It is brutal, but our soldiers, the best trained and near most educated in the world, stand together. They fight, bleed, and sometimes die for each other and the country they love. That is something impressive.
I know this community is mostly anti-government, anti-establishment, anti-military. So let the flaming begin. I will stand my ground on this issue. Let me make it clear in no uncertain terms, I fully respect and honor the U.S. soldiers and their families, current and past, who have protected my freedoms and my family. I will stand alone if necessary in my beliefs, I don't need anyone here to be with me. I am proud to know many, work with many, and will continue to go out of my way to preserve the reputation of them as they both have Earned and Deserve it.
I respect everyone's opinions, so I am not bashing. We have the freedom to voice and believe in what we want. Ironically, that is exactly what our soldiers believe they risk their lives to protect. Our right to be free. Even for those who would vilify or insult them. Just ask any soldier, they could be your doctor, lawyer, fireman, tech support, manager, pilot, disaster volunteer, or CEO. I am sure they would be happy to have a conversation with you.
Many of the posts I have read, show distain for our soldiers. But, I get the feeling the real issue is not with the people themselves, but more of a political statement of sending them overseas. Perhaps fighting in a conflict you don’t agree with or likely don’t understand fully. This is a different topic. One which should be separated from the people who server or have served in uniform. I think questioning the political leader’s decisions in how soldiers are deployed is valid and a proper discussion, but at the same time we can still recognize and respect these men and women for their honor, duty, sacrifice, and bravery.
Image Credit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/military-education-infographic_n_1873842.html
Those academies you listed are for officers. The officer corps is a tiny portion of the armed services of the United States, so you touting around these academies as some sort of indication that service members are intelligent on the whole is disingenuous or ignorant. If the latter, hopefully this revelation will clarify your perspective.
Secondly, the military exists for a very specific purpose, despite what all its been used for: the destruction of the enemy. The people that do the most intense fighting are also the ones for which the threshold for intelligence is the lowest. ASVAB scores for combat arms in the Army, excluding Special Forces, are all less than 100, and infantry, which composes the bulk of the US fighting force, is at 31. In other words, the primary function of the Army can be, and oftentimes is, carried out by the lowest intelligence recruits.
I'd also like to ask what sacrifice of theirs we're supposed to respect. Service members aren't automatically heroes. I served with a number of people who were human garbage that should never have been there, let alone in positions of authority over others. I've also served alongside genuine sociopaths. These are not isolated cases; they're the norm. Moreover, the military answers to the executive branch, which is a political agency. It deploys the military in furtherance of political goals, with the approval of other politicians in Congress. Are we supposed to happily wave the flag and praise our soldiers for carrying out the political will of the ruling elite?
This brings me to my next point: troops do not provide a valuable service. The service they provide could add value if it was provided for by private people investing in private firms, thereby driving competition to provide better and cheaper services, but that's not the case. They are paid for and funded by property expropriated from others. They are functionally no different than people who live on welfare for the same period as the troops serve. They are paid by taxes, which are taken at the point of a gun from people. This is immoral, and it should never be championed. Ever. If your argument is that militaries are necessary because we don't live in an enlightened world, you're doing a poor job of encouraging people to move toward that goal by advocating in favor of the trigger-pullers.
The same way I don't laud a serial killer for elaborate crime scene positioning and being neat and tidy with his tools, I'm not going to laud me or anyone else for signing their name on the dotted line and serving the interests of politicians. At best, they deserve our pity, but they're not heroes.
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Have you done any of these things? Have you gone INTO harms way for a greater cause, and directly put your life in danger to save others? They do. Part of the job. They write a blank check for America to be cached, up to the sacrifice of their lives. For you. For me. For our children.
Troops provide incredible service to their nation, first and foremost to protect it from destruction and its people from harm. Just read history. Pick any period. Go ahead. Armies are a necessary function to protect the citizens of their nation.
Your view of soldiers is very limited. Seeing as they are likely woven into your everyday world. About 1% serve or have served. They are your doctors, dentists, firefighters, salesmen, business owners. You call them sociopaths. Yet it is untrue. Show me any data that proves soldiers are sociopaths and serial killers. It is your fear and ignorance talking. Show me data and defend your claim.
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It's not my fear and ignorance. It's my experience in the 82nd Airborne. I served there, for four years. I never said they were all sociopaths, so you can stow that business right now. My view of soldiers is based entirely on my time in service and who I met there.
Your infographic shows that lower enlisted are more likely to have a high school diploma than the general population. That would be meaningful in some way if a high school education was indicative of being intelligent. It's not. One gets a high school diploma if one does what one is told. Government schools are little more than glorified indoctrination centers, so your conclusion that having one makes someone more intelligent doesn't follow. Let's continue:
So the Defense Department spends more than $100 billion taken from people at gunpoint to recruit people that they will then pay with money taken from people at gunpoint. Whether or not this increases the quality of recruiting is irrelevant; this is an immoral end and should never be lauded.
So then your infographic serves no purpose. Either degrees matter, and they're indicative of intelligence, or they don't. Can't have it both ways, chief.
The ASVAB tests general comprehension and reasoning in a number of fields. It is, at its core, no different than any intelligence aptitude test, albeit less rigorous and purpose-driven. That being said, 31 is exactly what it looks like: a 31% score. It's abysmally low, and yet, no more is required of people who want to comprise the bulk of the military's primary fighting force.
Okay, and they deserve our sympathy for forsaking their families for a lie. Every service member who serves "to protect America and freedom" has been tricked by their government. The government does not protect freedom; indeed, it can't exist without infringing on the freedom of anyone. Ultimately, they all signed their names on a dotted line, just like I did, to serve the interest of the ruling political elite. They signed a contract that says not to question the order of their superiors. They agreed to take part in the single most violent enterprise in human history: war.
Your argument that nations have always existed (which is patently untrue, since the nation-state is a creation of the Peace of Westphalia) and that armies have always been necessary is a logical fallacy. It's an appeal to antiquity. Rather than lauding people for signing up to be cannon fodder or enable politicians to pursue whatever immoral ends they want, why not encourage people to find another way? Why not denounce the war machine and point out exactly what it is?
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@anarcho-andrei Let me address your points. But first, thank you for your service.
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Over $100 billion is taken from people at the point of a gun for recruiting efforts to find and hire people who will then be paid by money taken from people at the point of a gun. You're welcome to demonstrate how taxation is not backed by the threat of or actual use of violent force.
My mistake for misquoting you about nations always existing. That was my bad for misreading your statement, and I'll walk that one back. However, the entire tone of your statement is that in order to ensure the security of people, we need armies. Voluntary exchange and consensual interactions is far more preferable except to people who want to use force to harm others, so this is not the only solution, nor is it the preferred solution. There is no reason the world must operate in this fashion, and honoring people who engage in or support the most murderous enterprise in human history does nothing to advance us past that point. Why continue to honor people that carry out an endeavor that multiples human suffering, rather than pressing for a better solution?
The ASVAB works on a ranking basis, with different scores necessary for different professions. Those with greater general aptitudes (higher scores) qualify for more jobs. Those with lesser general aptitudes (lower scores) qualify for less jobs. Based on this understanding, the job with the lowest cut-off score is the one that qualifies the greatest number of people, meaning it requires the least skilled labor. In the same way that qualifying to flip burgers doesn't make you smart, qualifying for infantryman doesn't make you smart either. I'm even willing to concede your point that the majority of people in the Army aren't knuckledraggers (since I'm my own counterpoint in this case, as were a number of people in my unit), however having such a low threshold for people who are in the most morally responsible position breeds inequity. You know what commands really like? Privates that do what they're told, when they're told to do it, and how they're told to do it. Trust me; I learned from experience that no one in charge likes a private that actually takes initiative.
I'm also not going to honor the "sacrifices" that people impose on themselves. I don't expect, nor do I want, anyone to honor me because I imposed hardships on myself. It doesn't take courage or dedication to keep serving even when one realizes how awful the Army really is; it takes the threat of a dishonorable discharge that will make you unemployable to a large number of people. That encourages other people to do stupid things, like sacrifice time with their family, miss their children growing up, become a stress-addled mess, destroy their relationships, become heavy drinkers and smokers, and a host of other horrible end effects that I've witness first hand or been guilty of myself. If anything, I should be a cautionary tale, as should everyone else who serves.
That's nothing to say for the fact that serving in the military means serving the political ends of the people in charge. Orders that violate the UCMJ are more than likely immoral, but orders that do not violate the UCMJ are also possibly still immoral. I'd argue that serving as the enforcement arm of US foreign policy is immoral in and of itself, and I fully accept my responsibility for being part of that prior to realizing what a racket war is. Indoctrination is a hell of thing, I guess.
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@anarcho-andrei
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Have you looked at the test recently? I am guessing (yes a guess) you have not.
It is designed where the Average score should be 50 and it tests on the following:
Granted it is no LSAT but it probably is not the same test you took either.
For example the math portion covers algebra, geometry, and quadratic equations.
Perhaps you should go take a practice test... https://asvabbootcamp.com/products/asvab-practice-tests-pack
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That's the test I took. chief. It's a general intelligence aptitude test. Maybe you should try taking one and see how you fare.
Speaking of which, when did you serve?
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@anarcho-andrei I did take one, many years ago, in high school. The test was far more simple. I am sure it did not have differential equations! But those were much different times. The military has changed from long ago. So have the soldiers.
They are much more sophisticated, intelligent, tech and business savvy nowadays. The ones I interact with can talk foreign politics, philosophy, history, psychology, technology, business, and still hit the center ring at a couple hundred yards. These aren't the grunts from a long time ago. DoD learned that an intelligent soldier was much more effective at achieving in-theater goals. They foster creativity, asymmetrical thinking, game theory, and adaptation. That was the major difference between the centralized control structures of WARSAW, Iraq, etc. and the decentralized operational freedom fostered in most western-nations military.
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Thanks for this @mrosenquist. I'm honestly exhausted with this discussion here so I'm not even going to read the comments. Too tempting to respond and get drug back into the same mental dogfight again and again hearing the same things over and over from people who presume to know my mind and heart. I think this is the first post I've seen with more comments than up votes, unsurprisingly.
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Yeah, we are in the minority. Still say what I think is right and why. Thanks for the upvote and follow!
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As a 13 year Air Force Veteran, I appreciate your post. I chose to serve. I was not "tricked" in to joining. I served with many educated, motivated and dedicated people, none of whom were forced or tricked in to serving. My son now proudly serves.
I had a 4-year degree prior to joining the Air Force. I now have an MBA and work as a financial analyst for a major telecommunications company. I don't consider myself to be dumb. Most people I served with are not dumb. Of course there were a few that were dumb as rocks, but that's just life.
We serve to protect the rights of people who hate the military. They are free to do so. I don't get offended. They can think what they want. I would serve again if I had the opportunity.
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Thank you for your service. From me, my family, and my friends.
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If you thought you were fighting for freedom, you were tricked. I don't blame you; that's the product of over a decade of government indoctrination at work.
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321 people have voted for that. Me and the rest of the people that have had the balls to step and DO something deserve credit for it. There's a reason anarchy is a tiny nothing in this world. None of them have the balls to step up DO anything but bitch on the internet.
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@vegascomic I voted for it too (yup, I sure did). I do NOT believe in the statements or support them (hopefully that is apparent), but I do appreciate people who voice opinions. That is their right. That's what makes freedom and free speech great! It is our right to point out where facts don't support their position and maybe, they can revisit their beliefs with real information and not just fear, suspicion, and doubt. I am as frustrated as you, but I would also fight for their right to believe what they want. I just hope they can open up and accept the facts which might alter their position.
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I subscribe to calaber24p, still do. I guess making money is the name of the game, which all 321 did.
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I subscribe to him too (shhhhhh don't tell him). Fact is, I want to hear different and opposing opinions from my own. I want to be intellectually challenged and to explore new ideas. I guess I grew up in the Star Trek era (original TV show).
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I grew up in that period as well ... Star Trek was fiction remember. The scholar part of his rhetoric was in reality a red herring that he only mentioned via two sentences really. They should be as insulted by this as much as veterans. It was a hatchet job against the military, and not a very good one at that.
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From my perspective, the US military as an institution is deeply corrupt. And the political machine is thoroughly insane. I would definitely prefer to live in a world where violence was not treated as a legitimate way to resolve disputes. But my preference is unimportant; violence is treated this way by people all over the world.
For better or worse, if every person serving in the US military were to quit their jobs tomorrow, all hell would literally break loose. And if every good, bright person in the military were to quit, only a relatively small handful of madmen and dullards would remain, and the result would be the same or worse.
This situation is untenable, but it is one that people as a whole are responsible for creating, and I very much doubt that demonizing everyone who chooses enlistment will make the world a better place for anyone.
Good on you for respectfully holding your ground on this.
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Interesting insights @mada I can't even imagine the mayhem if armed forces were to disband. The world would probably revert back to the armed bandits and criminals (vikings, nomads, mongol raiders, pirates, etc.) who would plunder, kill, and take what they wanted and enslaved whomever they desired. Which was one of the reasons armed militias were formed to begin with.
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...you mean like the state does now? Plunder, kill, and take what they want and enslave whom they desire?
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If it weren't for those things called laws, due process, separation of state, etc...
I am not saying it is perfect, but it is one of the best gigs in town. Historically speaking, the globe has more free choice and free speech than it ever did.
Alternatively, which government do you think does a significantly better job with similar challenges?
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Yeah okay, but you didn't refute my point about the fact states plunder, kill, and take what they want from the people they pretend to be composed of and have a sworn duty to protect. We haven't moved past the point of armed bandits and criminals, according to your definition.
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Hey @anarcho-andrei we talking soldiers here. Don't you going on some tangent about the state.... :)
Stay on topic, Steemit only allows 3 levels of reply! This is hard enough as is.
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Remember when it comes to battle - it's kill or be killed. Many soldiers may not be aware of the nature of why of the conflict. All they know in the battlefield it's kill or be killed. War is legalised murder and soldiers pay the price for it with PTSD and tinnitus. It's ugly and there is no way to make it look good or pretty. I think the military mentality must be discredited and regimen(t) must be maintained. The methods of mobilising people to deal with conflicts in the world needs a major upgrade. Violence is not the answer. Just like the martial artist - tactics must be utilised only in self defence. Not in coercive aggression.
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Soldiers are not drones. They know exactly why they are there. Make no mistake. Some agree and others don't, but they all fulfill their duty. Those troops in landing craft in WWII going to Omaha beach understood why there were there. Most weren't happy about it, but they did what had to be done. What would this world be like if they had not?
And yet, just like in martial arts, there may be a time when the application of force is necessary.
War is ugly, no soldier I ever met wanted to go to war. Seriously. They will if called and will fulfill their duty. But nobody looks forward to the horrors of war. This is why, sadly, 22 veterans take their lives every day in the U.S. We have asked them to do the unthinkable, suffer in the middle of mankind's worst situations, in the defense of our country and innocent people. They have, but have suffered themselves for it. We owe them a debt. We should be taking better care of them as well.
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What you should be asking is why they had to go there in the first place. Might consider studying up on WWI a little bit and how American intervention into unrelated conflicts has been causing problems worldwide since the turn of the century.
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And your opinion on WWII? Should the U.S. have stayed out of that war as well. It was a popular sentiment at the time. Same argument as you posit now.
How well versed are you on WWII?
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Well enough to know that, had we not been integrally involved in WWI, two things likely wouldn't have happened: the rise of Nazism in Germany and the rise of Progressive collectivism in the United States, both of which contributed significantly to the onset of WWII.
There's also the oil embargo we placed on Japan. And playing sides with England against Germany without actively declaring war. But really, it was WWI that laid the ground work for what inevitably followed: WWII.
How well versed are you on WWI?
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@anarcho-andrei It did not start with WWI. There were conflicts in the Prussian region for thousands of years. Where exactly do you want to start? Do you think the U.S. masterfully created war in central Europe when war had existed there for millennia before America was even established?
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So what do you do with naked aggression? Violence against innocents for the purpose of pursuing political agendas? Warfare comes in many flavors, as do the defenses to it.
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