RE: Magic as a three-fold process; an un-fuckable recipe for manifesting anything you desire.

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Magic as a three-fold process; an un-fuckable recipe for manifesting anything you desire.

in life •  7 years ago  (edited)

Thank you for your reply!

Because, if you read, part of faith includes taking action ;)

Posting it was taking action. Asking for donations when you claim you can materialize anything for yourself comes off as not really believing your own claims to me and since it felt a bit hypocritical, I decided to reply.

Of course, in the end, I'm by no means condemning asking for support form your followers or anything, it's more of me having a negative opinion of the type of sentiment you have expressed in the post itself.

Ok...please prove this to me.

This is not how proof works. On the surface level, you have failed to notice that I'm not making an assertion of truth, but talking about what seems to be the case.

Going a bit more into the substance of what we're talking about here, you cannot definitively prove a negative, but also, I have no burden of proof here as I'm not the one making an unsubstantiated assertion. You are the one that made a claim that magic is real and it works in a specific way. You are the one that made this bold assertion without bothering to provide even a single shred of evidence for it, let alone proving it in any meaningful way. When you have not provided any substantiation for your claims, it is perfectly reasonable for me to reject them. I don't have to disprove them, I can just point out that they are not supported by evidence, so it's too early for them to be believable or convincing.

To give you another example of how this works by reversing the places. If I told you that if you attempted to use this type of magic Zeus would be angry and would punish you with bad luck, than I would be making an assertion without any substantiation. In this case you wouldn't have the burden to prove me that Zeus doesn't exist and that he doesn't hate this type of woo, you can just reject my claim as unsubstantiated and unconvincing. This is the way to properly apply the null hypothesis which is basically the idea that one shouldn't assert or believe something as factual before it has been shown to actually be factual. Don't think this is reasonable?

So as the one making the specific positive assertion and the one talking about proof, what's your proof for what you are claiming in your post?

Do you understand my definition of magic?

Yep, I understand it. It's a very popular concept. I also reject it and don't think it should be regarded with fondness.

Did you even read this post?

Yep.

I want to know why you be-lie-ve what you do.

It depends on what you mean by believe what I do here. Generally speaking, I don't have unconditional faith in my abilities or my chances of success. This is not a bad thing because it helps me avoid unnecessary and unreasonable risks (hopefully :P). If you mean having some confidence in yourself, I get that from past achievements and from trying to evaluate my own abilities as objectively as I can (probably not too objectively of course). But depending on the endeavor, I have different levels of confidence. If the task at hand requires something I know I'm good at or something that I have done successfully numerous times, it's higher. If the tasks requires something I'm not familiar with and when it involves significant risk or danger, I don't try to boost my confidence artificially, but try to evaluate the risks, dangers and possible rewards. Going with blind belief into situations like this is dangerous and this is one of the reasons I see the ideas you've expressed in your post as not only unsubstantiated and unreasonable, but also as harmful.

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Lol.

Asking for donations when you claim you can materialize anything for yourself comes off as not really believing your own claims to me and since it felt a bit hypocritical, I decided to reply.

Hypocritical? I am proclamating that ANYBODY can manifest ANYTHING for themselves....yes including 'me'. which Is why I ask for donations.

I have the divine right to do anything my heart desires, as i live in accordance with divine law.

I am not perfect; I in fact recognize that I am imperfect. And through this realization I am humbled by the force; not taken by the illusion of my ego.

I'm sorry you are unhappy about my honest opinion here. Please notice the qualifier "a bit". I don't feel like you've committed some big no-no or anything like that, I just feel there is a hint of hypocrisy in that. Don't I get the right to do anything, too. Like disagreeing and taking the simple action of voicing my disagreement?

Unfortunately, I feel the same way about asking for proof when you yourself don't have any and are not even willing to address the point afterwards. It feels a bit hypocritical too.

Deep.

I'm sorry you are unhappy about my honest opinion here.

I am not unhappy. It seems we have differing opinions; that is ok. ;)

I just feel there is a hint of hypocrisy in that.
ok...can you explain a lil more in depth?

Don't I get the right to do anything, too. Like disagreeing and taking the simple action of voicing my disagreement?

Of coarse !

Unfortunately, I feel the same way about asking for proof when you yourself don't have any and are not even willing to address the point afterwards.

What proof do you require? About what? Ask and you shall receive!

My channel is called #coloured content...it exists to produce perspective that may or may not be true , but only serves to initiate critical thought.

Your thoughts and disagreements are valid, we can have an honest discussion; this is what this channel, and steemit, are about.

Yep, I understand it. It's a very popular concept. I also reject it and don't think it should be regarded with fondness.

You are entitled to your beliefs. Think of this as #foodforthought.

What proof do you require? About what? Ask and you shall receive!

Proof that the claims in your post have any merit.

You made a number of assertions in your post about how magic supposedly work. I'd like to know how you arrived at this information and why should anybody believe that it's factual.

it exists to produce perspective that may or may not be true , but only serves to initiate critical thought.

That sounds like a very different thing from "unfuckable" :P

[...] honest discussion; this is what this channel, and steemit, are about.

I'm glad there are things we agree on then :D

Yes. One moment, when I create the tine I will answer your questions.

In this case, it IS unfuckupable as this is the proccess of manifestation.....which I view to be essesntially the same thing as magic. Manufesting via intent via use of life force energy.

.....what do you define as magic \ magick?

In this case, it IS unfuckupable as this is the proccess of manifestation.....which I view to be essesntially the same thing as magic. Manufesting via intent via use of life force energy.

I know that this is your claim. What I'm pointing out is that you are claiming 100% certainty (contradicting your may or may not thing) and you still haven't provided any substantiation whatsoever. I was asking you how do you prove that this is the case, how do you demonstrate it or at least why should anybody believe you when you make those claim. You were very quick to ask for proof but very slow to offer any, even a tiny shred of evidence.

.....what do you define as magic \ magick?

Nothing. It's the stuff of fairytales that has not been demonstrated to have any link to reality as of now that I'm aware of. A great plot device in fiction, but not something to reasonably live your life by. To me claims of magic are in the realm of fiction until proven otherwise. And this is true for every claim - I don't accept it until I feel it has been properly substantiated and somehow demonstrated to be true.

Dave. I couldn't agree more with your position. But I have a point to make about both you and colored-contents positions. It seems to me that rocking-dave is objectively true in his assessment. But contrastingly, colored-contents post is fairly subjectively-true-enough to live a decent life by. How do y'all regard antinomies like these? I see them from a Neutral Data POV. The data that both of your messages are composed of exists in the same exact way. On digital screens encoded by ones and zeroes as well as in the neurochemistry of biological systems of information with subjective limits in perception. This is an objective observation that can be had if done so from a "zen-like" Neutral Data POV. The data that is common ground between all three of our subjectivities is simply termed Datalogic.

Now here's the plug: I have a post, my first one here from a few weeks back that has a Logical theory that I think may be the Neutral Datalogical Common Ground that I hopefully have conveyed here through text. If I could get honest feedback (like y'all gave) on that Paper in the post titled DMTheory, I think it could be at the very least something that bridges gaps that usually happen due to simple ego blind spots that we all biologically share. And by unifying categorical distinctions in a simple and logical aka falsifiable basis of and for Reality itself.

At any rate thank you for both speaking your mind. Not like you needed my approval. Great dialogue is the result of sincerely speaking your truth and actually listening to the other in pursuit of knowledge and in acquisition of wisdom.

Namaste

colored-contents post is fairly subjectively-true-enough to live a decent life by

Well, I think it's quite important to make a clear differentiation between truthfulness and usefulness. Even if a certain belief is objectively useful (and disagree this is the case here), this is by no means evidence that the belief is correct. So to me there is no antinomy here.

I see them from a Neutral Data POV

Why do you think this is a useful point of view? If you want to evaluate truth in the context of reality, there are many things that cannot be neutral - they are either correct and incorrect and the fact that we are expressing them trough language with the help of technology does not change the fact that we are attempting to describe and understand reality as best we can.

There are indeed things that are subjective, but those are always concepts that we have come up with that usually don't have a direct tie with reality like morality, beauty or happiness. But if you describe a process like magic here that is supposed to have a direct effect on reality, than your description is either correct or incorrect in the point of view of reality. And that's what matters to me.

What's the utility of using your suggested neutral data point of view in those cases? Isn't it detrimental to our ability to discern between correct and incorrect?

Great dialogue is the result of sincerely speaking your truth and actually listening to the other in pursuit of knowledge and in acquisition of wisdom.

Agreed :)