Social media recently got hammered by the #metoo campaign, which was supposed to raise awareness of sexual harassment.
The problem, though, is the fact that sexual harassment was never clearly defined.
So, since the #metoo campaign will be used as a tool to point out "See? This is how common sexual harassment is!" it will create a ton of problems.
You see, for some, sexual harassment is touching; for some, it may be a dirty look, or a pickup line from an undesirable man.
If everything that people subjectively categorize as sexual harassment is deemed sexual harassment, then it skews the numbers, and those numbers can then be used for whatever political goals.
Not to mention the fact that an unspoken truth about sexual harassment is that different men have different rules.
Some men can get away with slapping a woman on the ass at a bar, whereas others can't. For some, that's a sexy act of confidence, for others it's creepy and a form of sexual harassment.
The most low class men can be accused of sexual harassment simply by asking a girl out.
This is due to the fact that women have a built in mechanism to not enjoy the company of low quality men, since when a woman ends up pregnant, she's stuck with the kid, so she has to be picky. This is an evolutionary survival mechanism.
This is all subconscious, so women themselves usually aren't even aware of the double standard, and it's not even really their fault, since they're just programmed that way, but nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that sexual harassment can mean anything, and whenever a term can mean anything, it actually doesn't mean anything.
Such is the case with sexual harassment.
I'm not saying sexual harassment isn't a thing, obviously it is, and invasion of private space against one's will is not acceptable, in my opinion, but I really doubt actual sexual harassment is as common as the campaign made it out to be.
That is, if we are to define sexual harassment as something that involves aggressive physical touch. I don't think verbal harassment should be taken into account; people get verbally abused all the time: on the internet, at work, by customers, drunks at a bar... I don't see a reason to deem one particular form of verbal abuse as worse than the others.
All this is getting too much out of hand and basically as a dude I have seen many of the things you mentioned from all sides @schattenjaeger its a shame so many women now have the means to abuse this and cause trouble when nothing is there or because they dont like someone for whatever reason.
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I have done mant acts which could have been deemed as sexual harassment by some, even by outsiders. Worst case scenario is that afterwards they will decide they are unhappy with me and will tell everybody I have harassed them.
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I would like to see how internet trolls will be accused of a sexual harassment :)
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Men need to act as if #MaleSexuality is banned in society, because effectively it is illegal! Finding women attractive and resonding to that is criminalized in countless ways. Unlike men, women are encouraged and empowered to express their sexuality openly and it is all coded as "virtuous": their #NaturalFeminineHypergamy constitutes their sexuality and it is ethically perverse to say the least.
BUT GUESS WHAT: WHAT MEN FIND HARASSING ABOUT WOMEN'S SEXUALITY is not the same as WHAT WOMEN FIND HARASSING ABOUT MEN'S SEXUALITY. I know crazy right... but it is true. And our society seems to value a woman's sexual chastity more than a man's basic rights.
The majority of women are not sexual like men -even though we are constantly fed this lie. Men have twelve times more testosterone pumping in our bodies and it is so strong that our species has bounced back from near extinction a number of times! There are in fact some species, like grey rhino, that refuse to mate in captivity. For human males that much testosterone has a huge effect on how we exist as sexual beings. Human males can be under tremendous stress and have sex with their most hated female partners, doing things which they would not do after they orgasm.
Women's sexuality is not at all the same, they find sex challenging when under stress and can find physically unattractive males attractive if they find them to have power, provision, male utility and protection a turn on. Most women do not have a sexual responses to dick pics or male nudity; they find these things funny and respond in culturally coded ways as "sexy", but they do not at all respond to it like men do to female nudity: I guess you can say that the female response to male nudity and is culturally contrived.
Western women are free to sexually harass men when they size up a man's wealth, or comment on how men need to treat them to gifts, open doors, pay for dinner dates, protect them when they are physically fighting men, or when they feel threatened by things, etc. For women their sexuality is completely built into traditional values and rituals.
Their unnatural interest in uncommitted sex without the #SlutShaming culture response is problematic and is actually something they can't help but perpetuate themselves, since these types of activities actually devalue feminine sexual market value for all women in general. You can actually follow a woman as she unconsciously shames other women's sexuality, even if they are "open minded" most times.
Woman are allowed to go along with what can later be called a criminal act, "sexual harassment", but they are not actors in the crime and are treated as though she had no agency or responsibility to say "do not touch me like that" and pull away... I think before women start ruining men's lives in mass, they should ask themselves if they should have focused first on learning how to clearly and unambiguously, say no in all situations they put willingly themselves in. How can the majority of women claiming sexual assault and harassment by Harvey Weinstein find themselves in his hotel room, when everyone in Hollywood knew him well? Did the actresses managers just not know themselves? Look they knew they had to sell their sexuality, as women often do to get favors from men. Now this does not mean women can't actually work for men to get what they want. It's just that it's much easier to "get along" and later advantageously press sexual assault or rape charges -it's like free money and free attention. If in the process of using their sexuality to get what they want, the men come to expect more than the women are willing to trade, this becomes legally tricky for men only. But this is the trick played on men by a society that claims itself to be patriarchal.
Women seem to not fear men when they are overtly attacking men aggressively attacking men in family courts, it is in these times that women are empowered and fearless. Yet it is handy to put yourself in a private hotel room and say "out of fear I was silent" and, magically, we now have a naive victim who lacked agency or prudence. In short, we live in a culture that allows women to play the innocent victim card without any personal accountability.
In fact a man and a woman can both be drunk at a crazy uninhibited frat party and yet the man is a sexual predator for actually wanting sex, but the woman is too drunk to be accountable like he is: Conversely, a woman can get away with assaulting men, sperm jacking, extorting, promoting misandry and being overtly hypergamous by treating men like their personal assistants. I ask you what is the difference here between subjecting women to men's sexual objectification (which is actually honest because it is just about the sex) and women subjecting men to their sexual objectification ( male utility, provision, protection, etc which is soft prostitution). Well there is a difference and we can clearly see that men's sexuality is actually honest in it's expression, yet it is criminalized. While women's sexuality is dishonest more like covert-prostitution where their sexuality is given in exchange for material gains, without the man suspecting that they don't or can't really care for them. The only reason to be sexual with anyone is because your attracted, not because they care useful later. Yet aging we see in a gynocentric culture, women get to guilt men with the absurd notion that they used them sexually, when it is clear that many women trade sex for countless favors which is why it should be seen as soft prostitution not as loving romance or a good marriage.
I personally cannot wait until men completely ignore women and go #MGTOW... I think this will be the ultimate test for their natural feminine hypergamy; because, if at the end of the day, you think you have nothing but your sexuality to trade for the economic stability men represent, and no one seems to be interested in you, a different type of fear will creep in.
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Oh geez dude. It is time for you to grow the fuck up. This is the same rapey stupid shit people are standing up against. You are not oppressed. In your argument, women get whatever they want and con men into doing these things. You are tripping. Men's sexuality is EVERYWHERE. What the fuck do you think the porn industry is based on. Not all women trade sex like favors. You learned that from movies. I don't have the time to completely deconstruct all the bullshit you are spewing here, but I trust that you are well on your way to some #metoo 's about you. Wowie. All I have to say is: I hope you don't have any kids, so this type of thinking ends with your genes.
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yea this one i cant respond to. I don't think that we are going to get anywhere and thats okay because im looking at these comments and i dont think hes the majority. i could be wrong/naive.
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This would be a lot easier if women actually looked at themselves.
Then their duplicitous messages could be understood, however, women also like to be coy, to conceal their true intentions. To be the gender that is not understood.
What men do not realize is that for 80% of men, If you are not the top 20%, the alpha studs, then you are not supposed to talk to women sexually, at all, ever.
If a woman approaches you, sometime just before she becomes barren, then do not think she finally sees you as the good solid man that you are. You are there only to support her children for the rest of your life. (They may actually be created with your genes, but there is no guarantee) So, expect to pay for the rest of your life, along with a strong possibility of being thrown out of the house when the children reach the age of five. (when the children need a dad)
It is helpful for these beta men to understand that in her mind, she has settled. And that she is pretending to love you. She is pretending to enjoy sex. Although women are very good at this... hey, you only have to lay there, there comes a point where she can no longer stand the pretending and the "having settled" gets to her, at this point, she really hates you, despises you, loathes you.
If you are in the top 20% of men, do whatever you want. Women will make allowances. They will get on their knees. They will beg. They will try to climb through your window. Anything you do is ok by them, as long as they get a chance.
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Very well put.
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Holy shit man, I sure hope I'm an Alpha! Is there a test I can take or is the fact that I have to ask the test?
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Well, can you go to the bar, night club, hang out, and go home with a girl? (and not speaking of desperate women)
Basically, 20% of the men are getting 80% of the sex.
If you are trying to please a woman to stay with you: you are beta.
If you have several women you can call on at any time: you are alpha.
There are two very different worlds.
One group that hopes they will get laid
and another that knows they will get laid whenever they want to.
You listen to people from both groups, and you get two very different views of women.
And yes, you can up your game to appear alpha. Takes practice and working out, and starting from a point that is not dog ugly.
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Jesus. By the way. It is you that are the problem. How about YOU get on your knees. We are sick of this shit.
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I am just reporting what women have done. And not in small numbers. So, if you are sick of this shit, talk to them.
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unfortunately this is how some women deal with their feelings of powerlessness in society. I am not sure the statistics though. I am very confident that most of the women on this platform are NOT this way because by default most of the women here are intellectuals that have learned about crypto and or artists that see the world in a weird non-traditional way. But yes, there are many women that fit this role and its their choice to do so. As I try to give "all men" the benifit and see them different than the "some" who are overtly mysoginist--- i hope that all men do the same for me even though i am feminist and often quite dramatic when offended, lol.
We are all complex and yet not of us have these statistics that should be reported. MY experience is circumstantial as yours appears to be.
I'm sorry you had these bad experiences. i hope you find true love respect for a woman who sees you not as alpha or beta but human.
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I thank you for your kind words.
I was just trying to educate people that there are two classes of men out there. One of those has every woman after them, and the other are invisible to women.
With that, you can see how women, in general, say they want a nice guy, but always go after the bad boys. It is really that they want the bad boys to be nice. The guys they don't find attractive (the other group), being nice usually puts them in the category of being creepy.
I am a very nice guy.
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There ate no classes. All men are individuals plagued by flawed common ideology base on their geographical up ringing. That i can say as fact.
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Also -- a thought-- perhaps we have our own perspectives about the sociological details of dating and perhaps we dont need to be educated that a karge portion of earth is stupid and superficial. Lol. Perhaps also you can learn or listen ? Becuase the way i deal with men and mang women i know? You are not correct.
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You're right, no one knows what sexual harassment is anymore. Every time you look at another human being it's sexual harassment. Remember the kid in grade 7 who got a "don't look at me!" every time he looked at a girl? That's what we're heading towards (if we didn't reach that milestone already).
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some women are more sensitive than others. if she tells you that she doesnt like the way you are looking at her one time.. thats not sexual harrasment. If it continues or becomes explicit words or requests, its then harrassment.
Hope that clears things up. Looking can be fun when both parties enjoy it. This is why I often tell women that they need to figure out who they are sexually and what they like as soon as possible because we cant expect men to know what we dont know. However its not always possible. Some women are shy. Some girls group together and become bullies to the smelly kid.
Another anicdote of mine. I played "chase" with the boys as a kid. I had a crush on a kid and had my first kiss with him in a car at a football game with 2 other boys watching. I had no idea what I was doing, they had no idea what they were doing. but i wasnt scared because i was in control. then later it got around that i liked to do that sort of thing and we were playing the boys chase girls game. one boy in particular chased me and i didn't like him. i literally hid from him underneat some short stairs but OH he found me. He then got ON TOP of me. I'm claustrophobic so i was screaming and he literally just layed on top of me and nothing else. I finally got away and that time I DID tell the teacher. He got one day of in school suspension.
It is circumstantial and it is complicated but the essence is UNWANTED attention. Its the same way for guys as it is girls. If a girl was staring you down that you didn't like, you would either tell her or leave. But what if an entire room full of girls were staring you down that you didn't like? What if the girl you were disgusted by was multiplied and on every street corner, leering at you, and telling you nasty shit and about her nasty vag.
You wouldn't be upset?
I really think that you are underestimating the situation. I don't think things are as minor as you believe them to be and i really believe that MOST women would rather brush it off than deal with conflict .
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✋✌
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yep you are righ, in nows day people so easy to verbal harassment in every where. Not always to woman, but also to men.
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By your statement here it is okay to talk dirty to women at work, right?
Is that what I understood?
Ok, do me a favor. The next time you go to work tell the guy next to you that his ass looks nice in his pants.
Ask him 3 times a day to join you for dinner.
Compliment him on his new shirt and wink at him.
Growl everytime he walks by going to the soda machine.
See exactly how fast he complains about your behavior.
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YYYEEEEESSSS! If you would not say it to a dude, but you would say it to a woman, you should question what you are saying.
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Sorry buddy. I have to disagree. Sexual harassment IS clearly defined. There is a difference between assault and harassment. Just because some can confidently "get away with it", does not make it OK. Sexual harassment is a workplace term to describe unwanted sexual advances from co-workers, creating a hostile work environment. It is more dubious when the perp is a supervisor, since there is also a power differential here. If a man poses while grabbing your breasts while you are sleeping, that is assault. If he slaps a waitress on her ass, it is assault (no fun, you say? maybe you should only slap women on the ass when you know them and have consent). If a co-worker makes comments about your breasts or in my case (while I was packing up chocolate power) told me he would like to "lick that chocolate off my clothes" shudder, it is harassment. Men need to act better. Women don't need to be less sensitive. They don't need to smile for you, or look pretty. They don't need to have their image as the sole thing you compliment them on. They need to be treated like 50% of the human race and be respected as equals. It's a hard world out there. It is hard to be humble and take your lumps. It is time though.
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One problem with metoo is that it happens in a backdrop of claims that %50 of all women experience sexual harassment. That is such a huge number that it diminishes the harassment they talk about. Add to that reports that 25-50% of all rape allegations are false, that means made up lies. How many metoo accusations are lies, an opportunity to take revenge on a man?
The biggest issue is that also men are harassed. Probably also 50% of all men experience sexual harassment or more because it is silent harassment. But we are socialised to consider that normal or even our own fault. Sound familiar?
In the post-modern world women are normative to suffering, not men. I struggle to find a single issue only men suffer from socially, that would be acknowledged by society as a problem. Whimp accusations would come from both men and women if anyone complains. Add to this that it's even a problem to make society see that men can suffer from rape, when the typical harasment of a male is to ostracise him from sex or to humiliate him for his urges or manners.
In summary, women are the norm of what society considers harassment and even suffering in general. If women don't acknowledge your plight you don't have one. If it couldn't happen to a woman it's not significant.
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