What I had to say on MSP-Waves

fred777bear (62) · 7 years ago (edited)

@beanz I'm only ~6wks in. I have invested a fair amount of time to try & learn the system. Posted a little, but I'm not a "blogger" or really an "author". Mostly I tried doing the "reviewer" thing to try & learn about good posts & it is easier to earn 0.001 for a comment than spending 2-3hrs on a post to earn the same.

$5.33

yoginiofoz (55) · 7 years ago

I get what you are saying @fred777bear but for me it is just writing practice. I have a lot of subjects that I am researching just because life is so freakin' fascinating....and I have always dreamed of being a writer. Now I am. :-)

In the beginning, I did Upvote my content because no one else did. I stopped when I read that it was discouraged. I may still do it just because I do feel that my content is worth at least one Upvote. :-)

I have used the pay-for-a-vote "services" (mostly bellyrub) because I saw other successful writers do the same. I usually got the same return that I invested, and maybe 10 - 20 more votes because of it. I just figured that was how post were more visible thru Upvotes.

I wish there was a more engaging dialogue, but I have been on Steemit for less than a year. Maybe over time I will meet more like-minded folks?

In the end, I appreciate posts like these because that tells me that folks want real content. There is hope.

$0.00

fred777bear (62) · 7 years ago

Thanks for reply.
I think for every "performer/actor/writer" there should be 100 or 1000 viewers. For that to work the "audience" need a reason to hang around, and telling them "get on stage" is not going to work.

Not everyone is a 'performer' some are consumers, and they need to be welcomed / embraced / encouraged as just that. they are perhaps more important than 'actors'. else it is just a crowd of a 1000 shouting over each other, & never heard.

if audience is not here it means the authors will produce less (due to less viewers) and the spiral is downwards IMHO

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yoginiofoz (55) · 7 years ago

I think that in various communities on Steemit that is happening already (like with the "homesteader" community). I think the hardest to deal with are the folks that Upvote or comment on something that obviously wasn't read. My hope is that over time, we can weed out the people that are just in it to make coin. We will see!

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fred777bear (62) · 7 years ago (edited)

Actually I think the 'weeding' is already happening......they come..they see...they leave

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fred777bear (62) · 7 years ago (edited)

@yoginiofoz I was thinking about your comment last night re "weeding out".
While I agree that would be a good idea, it is 100% opposite to the "marketing" for steem.
it's the $$ that drag people in here. Then we "weed out"..... I'm not sure how that works.
Seems complicated and self defeating in some way to me.

$0.00

yoginiofoz (55) · 7 years ago

I appreciate your perspective @fred777bear. The weeding out that I was talking about was just the people that flit from one concept, idea, or sales gimmick to the next. There is so much to distract these days, and it does not lend itself to anything real or concrete if we cannot spend time researching and pondering life's many questions.

I have been searching and will continue to search until my last breath (and hopefully beyond, God willing) for the answers to life's riddles.

I just notice that we are losing the ability to see and grasp the subtleties of life, which is so rich and diverse. Nature loses when we forget to go outside and just be.

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fred777bear (62) · 7 years ago

You are correct. And as I mentioned I'm not sure if steem is a get rich quick concept or they plan for a long term thing.
so far they are saying the later, but pursuing actions that indicate the former IMHO.

$0.00

lordnigel (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Hello, I really like your post and what your saying (not sure I'm informed enough to know if what your saying will work - but it seem like your ideas are worth a go or consideration at the least).

I agree the pay bot thing isn't the best.

As a minnow with average posts (won't say they are sht :) - as i spend several hours doing a post and try to improve each time) my steemit experience kindda goes like this:

I spend several hours making my post and hitting the button (already spent days putting source together) - I'm slow with computers
takes me an hour just to edit and clean it up -I'm trying to improve my english/writing/presentation skills.
I try to get some attention of curators, or followers to get some votes.
I Get like 20, 30 votes up to 100 votes, and I earn 7 cents
I watch the 7 cents get less (yes cause price of steem varies, but more likely that paid for bot is being applied again bot bidders, spreading the share.
I give up and try to experiment with the bots
I make like $1 a post (after bot fees)
I watch while people who just post a pic with unedited txt or refer a utube link (probably took them 5 mins, make $2 a post)

If I had published my book as e-pub like I was going to do, I would have made allot more money.

For me though Its not so much about the money, I love the idea of crypto and trying to wrestle control/money just away from the few and give to the many.. and I really hope Steemit is a platform of fairness. I really wish the whalebot thing wasn't the only way I could make something.

At some point I'd like to help make things better. I will follow you and if one day you want help with an idea please let me know and I'll try.

It's people like you that give hope. Please keep up the fight.

Cheers

$5.20

18 votes

rebeccabe (63) · 7 years ago (edited)

@lordnigel great comment .. I am with you this is my experience also.. I listened to @beanz on discord and she said many of the things she wrote here .. so glad she made this post.. she is a great representative for us minnows.. thank you.
Also one BIG shout out to @minnowsupport we love you!

Yes I buy and occasional upvote not to make tons of money ... after curation probably 20 cents on a dollar..

I have put in effort and got noticed a few times by curators... but generally doing this for fun now and really the fail factor is there for most new minnows.

Think of it a Whale A can post something ordinary...Whale B, C, and D have bots that can upvote it with never reading and it trends. How much out of the money pool is that? So I am fine with someone making 20 cents .. Like me.. Lol.. no offense to anyone .. like I say I am here for the fun of it or I would leave due to the imbalance currently being experienced and I am thinking it will al work out eventually even for people like me that are at the bottom and have no techy skills.

$0.47

beanz (68) · 7 years ago (edited)

When I say shit posts I mean anything can be considered a "shitpost" by somebody, even my own (which is evident from the Bernie flag) The posts getting flagged are comments with a few words. I actually don't consider them shitposts personally but I can see why making $25 each is considered overvalued. At the same time, they paid for the votes just like somebody with a better post did, so both curations were inauthentic in my opinion.

Thanks for the great comment. Very important that we get the minnows perspective.

$0.09

7 votes

uv10 (51) · 7 years ago

Exatctly what I thought about when seeing the bot thing for the first time. I'm still trying to wrap my head aroud delegating vote power and so on.. it's abit.. complicated. on a new platform the flaws that begin as tiny cracks grow into chasms as the platform expands. just like a baloon! that's why I like this stage- there's still a lot of time to fix things as we go along.

myeasin (57) · 7 years ago

Thats a good Comments......@lordnigrl

$0.00

termitemusic (67) · 7 years ago

.. sounds VERY familiar!!!!

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fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

Attracting investors and attracting users are VERY different tasks, and possibly at odds.
I could not stay in the chat room, I do NOT like bots being able to vote. I think curation is what will attract users here. If the content is not well curated, no one can find good content and no one feels it is worth the effort to generate good content. So I went to the chat to speak my mind... and people will defend those damn bots to their death. The tech-minded community did adopt steemit early, but MOST of America wants to be able to just go to a site and use it. They do not want to have to learn about bots, how to program, how to code... They want to watch videos, read stories, laugh at memes. If the only way to get established here is to buy votes, get bots, and (as my husband calls it) blow whales, this platform is doomed. It MUST be fairly intuitive to use, or people will not stick around.

The whales who can make or break individual users need dethroned. Sorry, but as you noted, the minnows get beat to shit by getting caught in the middle of a whale fight. The whales have largely delegated their curation to bots, but they cling to the power to destroy and wield it a bit capriciously, from what I have seen. Just a few whales, I should note. But ANY whales that CAN destroy accounts just for lulz.... that is going nowhere good. Having that type of power available to BUY, not earn through producing and curating quality content, will lead to minnows who are afraid to speak out.
And with that, I am swimming back into my hiding hole and hoping no bot-loving whales see what I said to you...

$4.64

4 votes

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Attracting users and investors are different tasks but not necessarily at odds imo. Users come first, and it is when there are so many users that investors become interested. Although I think I know what you mean. Once these investors become large stakeholders, they may be interested to promote their own products which appears as an ad to the users. When I had first joined I was under the impression that advertising would be downvoted. But only minnows get downvoted here. Investors could deny payouts if they want to use their SP for exposure. But nobody holds investors accountable. Too many people believe that preventing large stake holders from doing whatever they want will discourage investment. What they don't realise is that the ability to prevent other stake holders doing whatever they want is actually steems greatest functionality and is what attracts investors. @dan gave us the tools for this reason, and people refuse to use them, even rejecting other tools he had offered to make this easier such as vote negation.

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aboutyourbiz (54) · 7 years ago

Users come first,

And this appears to me, with my limited experience, where steemit is failing, or at least stumbling, as evidenced by the very topic you are discussing. Add to that the fact that Steemit is not simple to use, and you eliminate a large sector of users simply because it's too much for them. I know a lot of people who use the heck out of Facebook because it's simple for them, they are not techy AT ALL. They could not use Steemit if they wanted to in the current environment.

I've seen a lot of discouraged users recently too, largely as a result of this same topic. For everyone that speaks up how many are silent?

It appears to me this whole topic is a discussion on how investors are currently making a return on their investment, but it seems like it could be short sighted.

I hope your voice is heard by enough people who are in a position to make a difference.

$0.45

fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

I truly appreciate your insight. As a newbie, I have a very "short" view, and as a non-tech person my view will never be as clear as some... I did not know tools were offered and refused. I had the (apparently wrong) impression that dan and ned just don't give a shit any more.

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

I wouldn't say they don't give a shit anymore. They had a baby and got a divorce. At least that's the impression I get from their comments.

My speculation though I could be completely wrong is that @ned and @dan had a similar vision for steem but not the same philosophy. @dan believes in decentralised governance. @ned seems to believe in taking an objective stance and not interfering, despite his huge incentive to steer us in a positive direction.

$0.00

fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

"They had a baby and got a divorce."
GREAT description...

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cecicastor (60) · 7 years ago

I wouldn't say they don't give a shit anymore. They had a baby and got a divorce. At least that's the impression I get from their comments.

That is a very good analogy. Perhaps some came to steemit thinking that they could make mega bucks without putting the work. A lot depends on our attitude. I hope this all works out in the end and we can go back to doing what we were doing before all this jealousy crap started.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

I used to feel we should try to attract and retain new users, but with the concept morphing into SMTs and communities I am having difficulty picturing advertisers or any other form of large investors coming in and trying to advertise on several platforms across multiple front ends. Just as you can't really advertise on ETH and reach the end users.

So, I really have no idea other than selling SMTs, why the traffic and end-users matter at this point. Let each community try to create an audience. As far as retaining end users to attract Investors, I have given up on that idea. As bad as it sounds with the business model I heard about from SteemFest I see NO reason to try to retain end-users or promote SteemIt.

I am not saying it isn't there... So, if you still see a reason let me in on it.

$0.00

beanz (68) · 7 years ago (edited)

There is no guarantee that SMT's will take off passed the steem community. From what I hear, there are plans by big media outlets to adopt an SMT, buy what happens when these well known sites decide that all the bots, vote buying and trolling over who got paid what causes them to abandon the reward token?

There are solutions proposed that could prevent these, but they haven't even been experimented with yet. So I'm very skeptical that we're ready for SMT's. In my opinion steem is not yet a good example of a sustainable decentralised social network, which means any SMT could be just as unsustainable.

Aside from that, steem still gains value from all of these 3rd party applications. Personally I think they bring more value than any SMT will. They have the ability to hit specific internet markets, which means steem is no longer "not for everyone". But development costs blood, sweat, tears, time & money. Promotion & marketing basically has to come from investors and users, and as long as people are unsatisfied, they're on strike from promoting the network and those platforms.

Besides, everybody keeps making the assumption that investors are some multi millionaire or advertiser. Some day they might be, but that is probably 5 years down the road like most other social networks. Our investors are US. We're the ones buying steem when we're satisfied that this is sustainable and going to grow. There are far more of us than there is millionaire's with nothing better to do with their money. While we lose users, we lose potential investors. Not indirectly because they attract investors, but directly because all our investors started out as users.

$0.68

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Currently the reward pool is at 700k ish of new Steem generated. I can't see where people who are fighting over a few buck on this platform can sustain that.

Oh, I fear I am being to blunt. Please feel free to add this comment to my newest post if you wish. Reading your post and making my comments inspired a post about it, I am hoping for community discussion on where our focus should be at this point.

$0.20

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Thank you for alerting me to it. ☺️

$0.08

lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

"and people will defend those damn bots to their death. "

This is a pointless distinction. Unless you have a practical way to stop bots (hint: there is none), then arguing about whether they should exist is a pointless waste of time.

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transisto (74) · 7 years ago

I would hope maybe steemit inc could help with this by disabling notifications of transfers in the wallet so that features can be developed enabling users to put a price on their attention.
As for the whales policing the system the tools and incentives are there already. If you're invested in STEEM you don't need any added incentive to "police" the system. Any policing of the system is for the purpose of making the STEEM network more attractive to potential investors and users. A whale with 500'000 SP gains $5'000 every time the price of STEEM goes up by 1c.

I agree with most of your post, There are some assumptions made that were logical, Lowering price is a free market thing that's already in play. I personally do not like the terminology of Whales / Dolphin / Minnows, they are supposed to have roughtly the same goal to grow the platform. They have different skills to make a difference, so why not call them by their main role, Author, curator, promoters, advertisers.

I asked about that a while ago and had a good response from @sneak, https://steemit.com/steem/@transisto/steem-improvement-proposal-minimum-threshold-for-being-notified-of-transactions-memo-messaging
In the meanwhile I asked @armandocat to implement it and he did in his Moreinfo addon.

$4.28

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

That is a good point on the terminology. I do feel like we give off a cultish vibe sometimes with the lingo we use. I do agree we have roughly the same goals. But I do think that some of these roles such as curators are not getting the incentives to treat the platform in a way that is in the interest of growing the platform. For instance, there are so many users who are not content creators by nature, but they come here and see that as a way to make money. Investing in steem power is not something we can expect all curators to do. But if they had the option to apply to become a curator, and get delegation from a whale who is convinced that their curation will bring value, then we can actually get a lot more eyes on the content here and hopefully that would encourage better content too.

$0.00

skreza (61) · 7 years ago

early adopters of Steemit were able to make big rewards.. I saw old posts from 2016 where some people would be rewarded $50 for a simple comment.. and $1000 posts were so common.. nowadays with the increasing amount of user the pie is getting shared among more and more newbies wanting their shares.. the whales are very upset because of the increasing mining difficult.. technically speaking we are mining steem using our brain.. but every-time new steem are created the difficulty keeps increasing.. just imagine the time when one could mine hundreds of bitcoin with that dual core cpu in one day compared with now.. So the so called policing is to chase as many people as possible into not sharing the new steem which are created everyday.. I believe there is a fixed limit to the number of currency that can be created in one day. I know a few whales who self-vote in comments like "wow" and "nice" and gets $10 but these people are so greedy they won't let a minnow earn $1

$4.15

em3 (60) · 7 years ago

Wow! You hit the nail on the head!!!
"People come to Steemit to make money..... People don't want to watch a social media network of other people making money!"

I had never thought of it so clearly. It's not just that you are told you can and WILL make money on steemit.......IT IS THAT YOU SEE OTHERS MAKING $20, $50, $300 and you are not going to stick around if you are only making $0.02 here and $0.09 there. If you spend an hour on a post and only make $0.50 or less, most First World users will leave if they see posts of equal or lower quality making $20 or $200.

There are ways to bring people around, and get rewarded through social interaction in communities and keep them around long enough to improve their posting and commenting skills so that they can earn too.... But atm it is not an easy process.

Thanks for being on MSP WAves, I only caught the last few minutes, so I appreciated your recap here!!

$2.88

michaelkingswood (53) · 7 years ago

"IT IS THAT YOU SEE OTHERS MAKING $20, $50, $300 and you are not going to stick around if you are only making $0.02 here and $0.09 there."

There's an easy fix for that. Just remove the pending reward indicators from posts, so the only thing people can see is the number of votes and views, and then rewards comes as a happy (or not) surprise after the waiting period.

Not sure what's gained by displaying the pending reward amount anyway, except to induce the writer or curator to continuously check back on the post to see if the reward's gone up.

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termitemusic (67) · 7 years ago

Agreed, showing the pending reward amount is counter intuitive in getting people to actually engage in content!!! on the feed/blog at least anyway.

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termitemusic (67) · 7 years ago

very interesting!!! The way I see it, in a way, this platform needs to split or decide if it is a social media site or a 'betting/banking' site! I came here, basicly because sites like fb were starting to ask me to pay to reach my own followers! obviously steemit kills any 'middleman' in that way. However, if you need 'money' to have a reach, then steemit has no edge! I didnt come here to make money!! It has become aparent that alot of people dont see it as a social media site, and if they dont start realising that it has to be to survive, then I guess it dies!!
... saying that, I'm still having fun here, cos I couldnt give a f**k!!
Peace.
termite symbol.jpg

$2.55

teknow (43) · 7 years ago

What was uttered in the end...
"get myself some meth" ..thewhatnow..?

What you said makes sense. I believe when communities gets implemented the control over curation and spam will be much more powerful. Community Liaison hinted to this in another comment chain.

I also suggested something similar elsewhere that aligns with your idea of placing a value on what gets delegated by whales. Essentially a system of rewarding investors that DO invest in members that WILL provide valuable content. On the flipside, making it a loss for those that throw their SP around to shitposts and spammers. Thus the top is feeding the bottom, but only those with potential and intention to add quality.

The other issue I see with steemit is, that some crap accounts really shouldn't even be able to engage with some quality posts. If they do, then some requirements could be implemented. Such as minimum rep or minimum comment length. This is highly controversial but it would solve the spammers that find high paid posts or comments and attach themselves to them in hope of an up-vote.

Hopefully communities does bring some of these changes. It will be a lot easier to manage either way when tightly nit subgroups are able to identity the good and bad of the chosen community. Some healthy competition might even arise. As communities compete for that Utopian Dream.

$2.43

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Haha, oh you know just your neighbourhood meth head haha. Don't worry about it, it's an inside joke so to speak. Lol.

Great comment and ideas. Thank you

$0.00

teknow (43) · 7 years ago

Haha makes sense now. The exhale was so fiend-ish.
Thanks again also for your valuable post and proposals.
It's good to see reputable members getting the topic trending.

$0.00

dreemit (71) · 7 years ago

Hi there! It's been too long, I know.
This was exceptionally well thought out and makes a great deal of sense all the way around. I'm glad I chose to watch the video and not just read it, I feel you covered it more thoroughly, and richly really. It's been tough lately for me to figure out what I feel about all of the different things going on, but this helps tremendously.

Hope you've been well!

$1.84

beanz (68) · 7 years ago (edited)

Hi dreemit!! You're right it's been too long. I get a feeling of disconnection on here sometimes because I get disheartened by the directions we take and there are so many people to connect to yet nobody expresses those doubts until they've been proven right. But it's great to hear from you, I've always appreciated your honest input.

$1.92

dreemit (71) · 7 years ago

I understand. Speaking of honesty, I have to admit that I gave up fighting for the things I wanted to see change because it was draining my optimism, positivity and ultimately my creativity. As well as taking up too much time that I don't have being a mom, wife, helping my own mom with my dad, writing...you get the picture I'm sure.
I still share my thoughts when given the opportunity, and I respect people like yourself who do continue to fight the fight, I always will.

$1.43

alcy (57) · 7 years ago

Hey ! Firstly, very informative post, thank you.
Still being a Minnow and still on the steep learning curve of Steemit I can't say i'm informed or so but I don't think the bots as they are now are a valuable thing for the minnows and the platform in general, so I join you on that point. Especially as this doesn't encvourage people to create nice posts as if they don't have an organic following they can still inject money to the bot. And on the long run I don't think the return on investment is worth it.
Your idea to trade for attention (and I suppose some kind of Resteem or promotion in a whale's post) is a far better idea as it will encourage to forge links between bloggers on the platform creating stronger bonds amongst the community, I can't see a whale accepting to promote a minnow if the later's post is not in line with the former's vision. Meaning there can be some kind of Whale's patrons helping minnows to grow, give more valuable content to the community in a given field, dynamise a friendly competition between minnows and build them an organic following. And the whale will still be beneficial, so it's a big win win.
I definitely love your idea !
cheers !

$1.22

syedumair (72) · 7 years ago

I totally agree with you and the solution you are suggesting @beanz
I am not sure it will work, but it is worth trying as it can change steemit once and for all.

When I joined steemit,I had no idea what it is and how does it work.
I saw an ad on Instagram on somewhere else which said that you will get paid for doing posts, comments and the other stuff but nobody explained to me that how it works and what rules I have to follow.
It took me around 2months to understand what steemit is and how to survive here.
I am glad that I didn't quit in frustration.
The problem is that minnows don't understand what steemit is and they join and want to make quick money and that results leasing steem power from the whales and using it on their own shit posts.
Some minnows however work hard for their post and earn few cents and get frustrated with the system.
The thing is everybody needs to understand steemit before joining it.

$1.16

12 votes

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

I disagree that the minnow shit posts are the problem but I appreciate the comment. Certainly expectations should be managed, but at the same time, no user should have to wait forever to start making money. Alternatively to creating content, I think curating should be something they can make money from even if they can't invest. 4 eyes are better than 2.

syedumair (72) · 7 years ago

I never said minnow shit posts are a problem, what I meant was that upvoting those shit posts is a problem.
I appreciate you replied to my comment.

11 votes

beanz (68) · 7 years ago (edited)

OK well that's what I meant I disagreed with. A shitpost can be any post somebody didn't like for one reason or another including this one downvoted by berniesanders and listed on his why you got flagged post.

This attack on the smaller users for the small amounts they are getting for what maybe doesn't deserve the $20 is just way to set us all against each other while the real perpetrators walk out with all the money. Divide and conquer. A genius way to distract us from what's really going on.

syedumair (72) · 7 years ago

Oh, thank you for clearing this.
I had some other definition of shit posts in my mind.

Divide and conquer, that sounds good 😂
Divide and Rule sounds good too!!

11 votes

public-eye (54) · 7 years ago

You are right. There are better ways to encourage the change in a behaviour than to punish the bottom end users.

I think minnowbooster's whitelist is actually a really good idea (reviewing accounts before use of service) and would somewhat justify the profits being made.... since, as you said. The whales make their profits when the price of steem goes up. BUT I think it would be best if the whitelist feature was put in place for any and every user of the upvote service. So that spammers/scammers couldn't even get their feet in the door.

I am trying to volunteer to fight spam and abuse here. And to be honest, from my experience, and everything I have heard from @steemcleaners, the abuse is rampant and out of control.

I wish bernie and others would delegate huge amounts of steem to those willing to fight the spam. It wouldn't have to be for a long period of time. I think a huge push of 5 or 10 million SP delegations, against spam, would only need to last 2 weeks. Or 1 month at most. Afterwhich most spammers would have taken their profits and left. Then only 1 million or 2 of SP for policing would be needed. But anyway... now I am hijacking your Post a bit. Sorry

Thanks for speaking up and having the conversations. For the sake of Steemit...I hope someone is listening!

$0.86

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Please, hijack away!

libertyranger (59) · 7 years ago (edited)

Intelligent discourse is not something I would consider highjacking a post. I've seen a lot of good ideas in the post and the comments here. It's not easy getting the attention you may deserve here on steemit even with one quality post after another.

I'm still struggling and have invested both money time and spend hours every day telling people about steemit and crypto in my Uber. I even have business cards printed with my steemit on them that I give to every rider. Sometimes it's really hard to put in that 4 hours of research on a post that gets 5 eyeballs on it.
SMH

$0.96

public-eye (54) · 7 years ago

Thank you for that feedback! I was mostly apologizing for the final paragraph, since I did start to veer off topic. But yes, it was organic, so, not a real hijack! I appreciate the feedback and encouragment @libertyranger !!

$0.04

public-eye (54) · 7 years ago

thanks XD

$0.00

abh12345 (76) · 7 years ago

If you check out who is being flagged by @berniesanders, it's not the minnows buying the votes (99% of the time), it's the minnows selling votes (to themselves), mostly with @freedoms's delegated SP.

This has to stop before whales will consider delegating to curators, because it's much more profitable to delegate to these guys, instead of me for example, as I'd only be able to offer the weekly delegation rewards.

You are right though, large SP holders need to look further than this week and into the next 2/3 years. The constant spreading of the rewards pool will make the community grow, which should in turn raise the popularity of the platform, and the price of Steem.

Find me a delegator yo!

$0.79

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

If there were cheaper alternatives that's what these minnows would go for instead and they wouldn't have to self upvote to desperately scramble to make their money back.

$0.00

abh12345 (76) · 7 years ago (edited)

These minnows should not be delegated to.

Whales should spend 2 minutes researching who they plan to lease their SP to. The minnow/dolphin can apply with a nice post, provide reports, even promote the delegator if they want to be promoted.

If you gave delegated SP to these people for $0, do you think they would all of a sudden become 'good' users?

Got to pick the decent folk, and watch what they are doing .

$0.00

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

I agree with you, but currently there's no way to hold freedom accountable for his negligence. Only the buyers. And although downvoting them is necessary, it won't stop people like that coming to the platform to make money that way unless they see options that they can do instead. Such as curating.

Right now we have a platform full of content creators making money, but because the distribution of wealth is not spread out we have too few curators with significant SP to reward with.

Imagine if when arriving on steemit (or another application) a minnow could immediately apply for a job as a curator, and the whales could have their criteria written on what standards a curator has to meet to get the job. Within 2 to 3 weeks after applying for the job if that minnow meets the criteria (eg. Voting many accounts) THEY GET THE JOB. That would bring so many people to steem imo.

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abh12345 (76) · 7 years ago

That would be awesome :)

I hereby apply for content curator!

@curie make a shed-load of gross curation profit each week. Looks more like a business than a support the community deal. Their curators and introducers are paid a lot too.

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geekpowered (69) · 7 years ago

I would absolutely work to help curate! But I don't think it should be just by monitoring what someone votes for. I find myself upvoting some things due to being on other social networks.
What I would rather suggest is that someone make a site for designated minnows to curate a list of posts, and then the whales can either vote directly, or someone they designate can vote for them.

$0.77

davidfar (70) · 7 years ago (edited)

@beanz Hi , how are you?
I also wanted to say stop creating a police station in here who rules around but I just let them do what they like .... disliking or giving minus to people is not good!! if something is wrong we can report to the site! and telling them that this post is against humanity or it's lie or it's fake!! but we dont have to judge anybody, even if all the spammers write under my post, I wont downvote them!! I will just tell them what they have to do!! not hitting them or beating them with these kind of government style things!!!
I hate of some people who moves around to find people's faults and show their faults to all!! heyyy look this user was doing bla bla ....(it's so childish!!)
this means there is no freedom!! but this platform didn't do this to us, but we did it to ourselves by creating police officers in this site!!!
to catch us!! puting us in jails!! isn't it enough? we didn't had enough jails physically? it's enough in my idea!!!
if the user is a bot, then story is different but if it's a human, you dont have to break his or her heart!!! we have to take care of each other!!! ( people will run away if we do these to them!
( we need a free world!)

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barrydutton (74) · 7 years ago

You always have such good ideas since I first saw your post replies etc a year and change ago @beanz.

Even if people do not agree with some points you have brought up or given here and there -- if they are familiar with your body of work as a whole, they cannot say you do not come up with some fair ideas and do your best.

Plus your accent.

LOL

-- have a good nite

$0.45

stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

I like what you have to say, and I also have started doing what I know is right: delegating SP to those who are social cultivators. This is how to grow things organically and change the atmosphere.

$0.38

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Great! I hope it will deter people from buying it when there are whales willing to give it out for free. Thanks stellabelle I hope you've been well. 😊

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

I've been doing small delegations for free the whole time, but I started giving more and more. paulag, mike74pm and now kubbyelizabeth. It feels good actually....and now that i'm starting a big project myself, i will not be curating as much....so finding good curators is the way. do you know of some good art curators?

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

That's right, I met Paula and she told me she woke up to your delegation. She was really pleased. I know @votovzla is looking for delegation for the Venezuela community and they host a photography contest that I try to support (there are so many people in need of support though)

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votovzla (68) · 7 years ago

If @beanz, we are really working on strengthening support for the Venezuelan community in steemit, and I believe that together we can achieve great things

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ballinconscious (65) · 7 years ago

It sometimes seems like steemit inc. does not really care in the end about fixing these problems that people have been experiencing so long. Steemit inc. seems to be more focused on growth, yet I am not sure all this growth can be sustained.

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lucylin (67) · 7 years ago

The one thing I would point out - and appears to be a statement given without thought - steemit is not a free market if you can use a punitive tool. (down voting/flagging).

The whole principle of a free market is affirmative actions promoting good value.
Where is punitive action is an option- against others - a 'free market' ceases.

This is the way it is -fair enough - but I wish people would stop banding the term 'free market' around, as though its a fact.

If choosing to buy (upvtote) benefits both parties - its a free market. A voluntary transaction.
That dynamic cannot be said with down voting.

Ah ! - I've just let of some steam!

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steveconnor (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Interesting points, I have been following this "theme" throughout Steemit. I also like that you are not just saying there is a problem, you are offering suggestions for solutions as well. I am willing to be a Guinea Pig for the "Delegation" project if anyone is interested in trying it out. I am just over 1 Month on Steemit. Resteemed...

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shreya.pavagi (28) · 7 years ago

Any suggestions for minnows? How we can support our posts?

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

The answer to that is constantly changing. Best thing is to network. Join discord communities and make some friends.
https://discord.me/votu

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shreya.pavagi (28) · 7 years ago

Thanks for your quick response. Start following you. I guess its the start!

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cyberblock (65) · 7 years ago

I have quite a bit invested in bitshares as well, hopefully we get a boost soon

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talltim (57) · 7 years ago

Steemit is full of bots, all busily feeding on the reward pool.

Like any system with too many parasites, it will fail unless this is changed.

Everything else is just a distraction to this problem.

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pastbastard (53) · 7 years ago

I would be game for delegating my minuscule power to an even newer member. Also, I considered buying the resteem/upvote/promotion for my better posts to get exposure. I tried promotion once and I think it is the way to go. It voids the Steem and hence adds value to those who are hodling. Promote promotion!

$0.13

4 votes

eturnerx (64) · 7 years ago

Promotion is broken in terms of getting visibility. Essentially now we write a post and it goes into the firehose and we just hope our audience happens to see it. Steem gives us very few tools for helping our audience find its authors. So, upvotes are quite effective means of buying visibility. When community features come along, then the need for visibility upvote buying will diminish.

pastbastard (53) · 7 years ago

Is that because nobody clicks on the promoted tab? I wonder if that could be fixed?

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votovzla (68) · 7 years ago

Your idea is very interesting, you really contribute a lot to the development of this network, we will fight to make your ideas come true. Greetings friend.

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mageofor (39) · 7 years ago

in my opinion instead of buying upvotes. it's better to work hard and build a very good content of your own work.then upvotes will come to your post without any effort. thanks for sharing

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kahkaha (46) · 7 years ago

as I would like to think as opposed to purchasing upvotes. it's smarter to buckle down and assemble your very own decent substance work.then upvotes will go to your post with no exertion. a debt of gratitude is in order for sharing

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geekpowered (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

Totally forgot to comment on the whole downvote thing.
You absolutely shouldn't downvote just because someone used a vote bot. If you think the post is low quality, and the rewards are too high however, then sure, go ahead.
Totally downvote posts by bots though. They are abusing the system, and advertising themselves, which counts as spam.
But I'm just a lowly minnow, and my vote means nothing.

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yougotflagged (57) · 7 years ago

You have been flagged, likely because you are attempting to take advantage of the reward pool. Please see my daily post for more detailed reasoning. Thank you.

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melbookermusic (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Wow - I'm such a newbie!! I didn't know anything about any of this. 😊 I've never bought any votes or anything, didn't realize you could "delegate" steem. I'll be doing things the old school way I guess Thanks for the insights. ✌🏾

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

You're a newb with a 62 reputation?

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melbookermusic (65) · 7 years ago

@beanz I will have completed 120 days in about a week. As soon as I joined I started writing and posting videos-and studying other big accounts here. I just somehow happened across your page and realized that I "I do not have a clue" still 😀. I'll be studying and learning from your page now.

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votu (55) · 7 years ago

lol nice! Well feel free to join the discord server where the podcast will be on tomorrow
https://discord.me/votu

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melbookermusic (65) · 7 years ago

@votu thanks!!! Gonna do it now. For the record, I've heard of discord. Do I have any idea what discord is? NO 😂 Going there now - thanks again✌🏾

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defango (64) · 7 years ago

This is great information. I just got delegated some steem power and I'm trying to make sure I manage it correctly. I'm still trying to figure out what the best options are and these things are very helpful! Thanks for you hard work.

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

How much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?

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fulltimegeek (67) · 7 years ago

I delegated 15k for free.

$3.25

9 votes

stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

I am doing this also. I find people whose activity i like, then I delegate it for free. Imagine what the platform would be if all the mega whales thought like us?

$1.40

5 votes

eturnerx (64) · 7 years ago

I like this approach too. A %age of my SP goes into directly supporting the long-term growth of steem by backing individuals and communities. I can live of the ROI on the rest of my steem while I see community delegation as a way to grow the platform longterm. And, it's cool seeing what these awesome Steemians get up to.

$1.59

lucylin (67) · 7 years ago

It's great that other do take an interest in growing the platform.

For me personally, I just want to write content, and make a buck!
(and I would wager I'm not the only one)

I took 10 days off out of sheer frustration of steemit, to be honest.

I am now giving it another go, writing some fiction - and then I came across the whole michelle gent/sanders/transito wars!

I hope thing settle down, so we can create, and debate.

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fulltimegeek (67) · 7 years ago

I have matched all your delegations.

$1.23

stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

Yes and this is great news. Thanks for being an amazing person!

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fulltimegeek (67) · 7 years ago

You're a true leader. Well done.

Steem Power	Delegatee
5038.03	crimsonclad
5079.39	inquiringtimes
5163.83	kubbyelizabeth

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eturnerx (64) · 7 years ago

Some of my favourite steemians right there.

inquiringtimes (64) · 7 years ago

thank you! I'll keep working hard, to better the platform, and myself. Not just quantitatively, but qualitatively.

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paulag (73) · 7 years ago

you are also a true leader. Thank you sooooooooo must for this delegation

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abh12345 (76) · 7 years ago

Very kind of you.

Well i might as well throw my hat into the ring here then!

https://steemit.com/steemit/@abh12345/steemit-give-me-your-steem-power-and-i-will-prove-to-you-i-have-used-it-wisely - this is a post past payout but relevant to @beanz post, and this one yesterday: https://steemit.com/curation/@liberosist/a-review-of-vote-buying

Approach whales to delegate (or follow) their unused SP. Make deals with them so you can send them (or they send you, in case of following) a percentage of your curation rewards. Build sophisticated machine learning bots and content discovery systems.

I've tried a few methods, asking around, posting about it, but no go so far.

Do you have any suggestions?

Cheers

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fulltimegeek (67) · 7 years ago

5k SP sent your way. Congrats :)

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abh12345 (76) · 7 years ago

You are the man!

Do you want me to add your username to the comments I add to posts as in the first link above?

Thank you!

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Do you run a witness?

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fulltimegeek (67) · 7 years ago

Nope. I don't want to use a virtual server and waiting for the day that I have a physical location with good Internet speed and reliability.

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Well all I can offer you is my appreciation. Since I got my delegation from @smooth I've had countless people coming to me asking how can they get a similar deal. I tell them I don't know what he is willing to offer but it probably depends on how they propose to use the power. And they almost always tell me they have no intention of being selfish with their votes and they have a community in mind that they want to support. @votovzla is one in particular who asked and I've been trying to support for their photography contests in the Venezualan community. But at the same time I am trying to support filipinos and indonesians and anybody I see bringing communities through their content creation. It is impossible to support them all but there could be so much more people like me if they were given the opportunity.

So thank you for giving people the opportunity to help nourish this network.

beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Good! I hope it starts a trend as minnows start seeking lower prices

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abh12345 (76) · 7 years ago

I think all curation rewards to the delegator is a fair price?

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beanz (68) · 7 years ago

Then what incentive does the curator have to try to keep their job?

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