Recurring Reward Proposal

in newsteem •  5 years ago 

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The hashtag #newsteem is meant to encapsulate not just the technical changes brought in by the latest hardfork to the Steem blockchain, it is also supposed to reflect a new era in which there is better communication between the Steemit inc. team and its users.

So in the spirit of new Steem, I want to revisit a proposal I made roughly a couple of years ago. Back then @andrarchy did not have the role he does now, and the Steemit inc team did not seem interested in listening to its user base whatsoever. Rather, they were riding the crest of a high Steem price, therefore thought that they had got it right so why listen to anyone else?

Now with @ned sitting in the background as non executive chairman, things at first seem to have changed for the better, so let's see if my proposal is given any notice this time around.

Is The New Steem World Still Brave?

Before I get into what the proposal actually was, let's quickly look at what Steemit purported to be when it was first launched, and how that differs from today.

The original Steem Whitepaper cited the billions of dollars in advertising revenues that Facebook and Reddit generated without sharing any of the profits with its users. Indeed even the updated whitepaper which is around 2.5 years old still contains a version of this statement.

The original philosophy of Steemit was to allow blog posters a chance to make money from their posts, whilst at the same time rewarding the readers for their attention by giving them a share of the revenue generated.

At this point there were no Google ads on Steemit, as the price of Steem meant that the company could survive simply by selling its crypto to cover costs.

Fast forward to the present day and every post on Steemit has a Google ad, which generates money for the company and is not shared with its user base.

My issue isn't the fact that Steemit have changed its model and now use advertising like any other social platform. It isn't even the fact that neither I, nor any other Steemit user gets a share of the Google ads.

My umbrage comes from the fact that long after a user has made a post and collected whatever funds generated in the seven day pay window, Steemit will still be collecting Google ad revenue.

So in other words, if I write a popular article today, which maybe doesn't do so well on Steemit, but is a highly searched and clicked article via Google, the ad revenue could go into the thousands and I don't receive a penny of that.

Of course you might argue that this is the case for any other social platform, however Steemit purports to be better than that.

Recurring Payment Windows

In order to address this potential revenue imbalance, I suggest that their should be a recurring payment window for popular posts, and when I say popular, I mean posts that have had lots of attention via Google and other search engines.

If done properly the recurring payment window will not only reward the author for a popular post, it will also incentives people to vote on articles older than seven days old. Which in my mind is a problem in itself, because there are many posts which are not time sensitive, which provide value long after they are created.

Idea Function

There are a couple of ways this could work, which we'll explore briefly now.

  1. Applies to all: So this code could be written into the blockchain to simply apply to all posts, whereby regardless of how popular your post is, you still have the chance of a recurring payment window opening up at some point in the future.

Perhaps in this version a random window may open up 90 days after the original post, giving people a chance to vote and be rewarded.

Pros: Everyone has a chance to benefit.

Cons: The random nature may mean that popular posts still miss out on a chance to increase revenue.

  1. Applies to popular in-house posts: In this version the recurring pay window opens if a particular post keeps getting views and/or votes from the Steemit community, which indicates the validity and usefulness of the post.

Pros: Popular Steem posts are rewarded beyond 7 days.

Cons: Steem votes do not always reflect how good a post is, so good articles with few votes will be ignored, and the system can easily be manipulated.

  1. Applies to views from other sources: In this version the recurring payment window would open if there were multiple inbound links and views to a post.

Pros: This could reward articles that don't necessarily get much traction on Steemit as far as votes are concerned, however would reward an article that was popular in the traditional ways.

Cons: Could possibly be open to ddos attack abuse.

Debate

Hopefully I've sparked off a debate here, I'd love to hear ideas from the Steemit community at large, as well as members of the Steemit inc. team such as @andrarchy.

SO LET THE DEBATE BEGIN! I HAVE SUMMARISED 3 WAYS IN WHICH THIS CAN WORK, PERHAPS WE CAN UNPACK THESE SUMMARIES INTO FULLY FLEDGED PROPOSALS? OR MAYBE YOU HAVE IDEAS BASED AROUND RECURRING REWARDS YOURSELF? OR MAYBE YOU BELIEVE THE WHOLE CONCEPT IS FLAWED AND WILL NEVER WORK.

WHATEVER THE CASE MAY BE, AS EVER, LET ME KNOW BELOW!

Cryptogee

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Making sure that the posts from last few days are no abuse and, if so, flagged, is already enough work.

How do you wanna check all posts and comments which ever existed everyday?

I think ur ideas just change too much in the Reward System, downvoting is just the counter mechanism. To prevent abuse.

Posted using Partiko Android

Age of a post doesnt prevent abuse. It's not like it's difficult or expensive to make a new post to abuse. I don't see the logic here.

There should be no limit on how long a post could earn rewards. Just have them payout every week and reward them forever.

Lol ofc does the age prevent abuse.
Cuz of the 7 day payout circle. We only have to focus on new posts to fight abuse.
Not on 3yrs old ones..

Yea just payout for ever and after a year there is no Reward Pool left for New posts.
Great idea m8

Sorry I don't understand, what's the checking element? Once a post is verified as fine nothing changes, all I'm saying is any post, like this one for instance, could become eligible for later rewards.

Cg

Yea. But what if crystalliu just does the same and then steemyoda votes some fucking old posts and noone even sees the abuse cuz the posts are fucking old.

Posted using Partiko Android

The post would have to be popular, if it was one that nobody saw, then you wouldn't be able to vote on it.

(There's no need to swear by the way, you make your point well enough without the f-word :-) )

Cg

Okay.
I still think we dont need another Reward Pool hole which leachs the ecosystem.

Gotta fix other stuff first. How about changing the sbd to a mechanism like MakerDai?

Posted using Partiko Android

I don't know about MakerDai, what is that?

Cg

lol really?
The best use case of ethereum? Self-regulated decentralized stablecoin :)

Okay, yeah I'm for that. SBD needs some kind of mechanism to make it stable, rather than our thoughts and prayers.

Cg

So every one can start upvoting their own comments from 3 years ago. Its impossible to control. Brilliant.
Your idea is deeply flawed.

Well no, because a comment wouldn't be eligible, unless it was super popular.

The point is if you write a post which gets 1 million views, because people have found it via google/facebook/twitter or whatever, then you should be rewarded for writing such a valuable article.

Cg

^^

Posted using Partiko Android

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

Have to resteem this post because I agree with you that articles on Steem should be rewarded as long as it is still generating value.

There are so many occasions where I read a useful tutorial/guide on Steem that has past the reward window. At that point, I will be having a dilemma whether to vote. On one hand, I know that voting does not yield reward to the author. But on the other hand, I still want to appreciate the work.

Recently I used Steem Forever to reward an old post by @famigliacurione. It is a story written based on NextColony, a game on Steem. Such posts are timeless and generate value perpetually. They should be rewarded as long as they are discovered and voted on. Steem Forever makes that possible, however, it is not seamless and requires voters to make an extra effort to use it.

I think your 2nd option is achievable, just perhaps not to reward based on views. I think it is technically not possible to reward based on views because Steem is designed to be an open platform. There can be multiple front-ends that can be used to view the content and there is no reliable way to capture and aggregate all these views from different sources.

That being said, I think posts that are voted on after the reward window, should still receive rewards. I do not think it is technically impossible to implement that, it is just the possible abuse that is holding us back. For example, someone might abuse the system by spamming accounts and vote with the delegated SP from Steemit.

To combat such abuse, we can set the reward curve for votes beyond the reward window to be diminishing by time. In other words, the later you vote, the lower the vote value. Just not zero value.

Thank you for your input! Also thanks for the links to Steem forever, I had no idea there was such a service.

As you point out, any system we put in place has to be tested for abuse, I'm sure there's a way it can be done, perhaps using a similar code to the google tracking code which looks at how many people have visited your page and from what sources.

Cg

Two ideas.

First one is to activate a tipping feature after post reward window ends.

Second is a more ellaborate one.

When user creates and post, it could attach some amount of STEEM to it. After 7 days reward window finishes, the amount of STEEM attached to the post would be "staked" into it. Every day -the corresponding amount of blocks in 24 hours- a new reward window would finish. Blockchain would subtract the rewarded STEEM -for new upvotes, not the normal reward window- from the staked amount of STEEM. That difference will go to liquid STEEM wallet. As long as that difference is minor to the staked amount, the post could be in that "extended rewarding window".

There could be variations on it, more ellaborated ones, of course, but that is just my idea. This ones moves the AI algorythm of detecting atemporal posts from the blockchain or front-end to the post author itself. Authors could exploit that feature, but at the expense of having to stake certain amount of STEEM, which cannot be changed once the post was posted to the blockchain.

Okay, I'm going to have to get my head around proposal 2, it sounds good, but I'm not sure I understand it... I'll get back to you on that one.

I think tipping is a good one, I know the @tipu service has been fairly popular, however it would be nice to have one built into Steemit.

Cg

It would be great to keep getting rewards on old posts if they are still getting attention, but I assumed this was not done due to excessive processing requirements. I'm fairly okay with Steemit earning from ads if it means they do not need to dump their Steem, but then they should do something else with it. I mostly use other interfaces such as Steempeak Partiko and eSteem anyway. I want to set Steemit so some actual marketing as the world still doesn't know about this platform.

I think the processing power could be cut down by making it semi random I guess...

I've given up hoping that Steemit will market themselves, I just don't think it will ever happen, look how long SMTs took, and they actually wanted those!

Cg

I do wonder what they are waiting for. Do they understand the concept of missing the bus?

A lot of Steemit announcements leave me with a mental image of a horse running at full speed out of a barn, and then a few minutes later the farmer coming along to shut the door.

Cg

  ·  5 years ago (edited)

they could just share ad revenue and fund an affiliate program with it on top. but I doubt this will ever change, so it's better to use & promo alternatives in my opinion. I almost exculsively use @steempeak and link to it. if enough people do it, steemit is forced to change something or slowly die off

edit: steemit could add a dedicated ad-spot which is only paid in steem/sbd, so it could be easier shared with authors

That's a good idea re the ad spot, and of course some kind of revenue share might be nice. Thanks for your input, really interesting ideas.

Cg

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