Up until a few months ago, I had never heard of the expression "Dunking on someone". I mean, it makes sense, and since I used to play basketball semi-professionally, I kind of love the visual, but I don't know if the action of doing so is helpful at all. Yes, the fact of it is, I'm not talking about sports right now.
Joe Rogan brought it up
I can't remember the episode, but maybe that's not that important. The truth is that the point he was trying to make, to me, made perfect sense and truthfully it needed to be said. You see, there's a type of online content that fits the category, and there's an extensive list of youtubers who participate of various dunkings.
In the context of the conversation, Joe Rogan brought it up as it pertained to the constant dunking that @samseder constantly does on Dave Rubin. Truth is that it's become pretty much a staple of the Majority Report to dunk on libertarians, and it's a crucial part of the show I must say.
All that being said, as fun as it may be for viewers to watch some dunking, it's also not unreasonable that Rubin is not willing to sit down and have conversations with @samseder about "the ideas". Which is to say, if someone constantly made fun of you, and that someone's co-host does an impression of you implying a mental discapacity, you would not be too motivated to appear on their show or invite them, right?
The Sam Mob
I'm not entirely sure when this began, but for a while now, the fans of Sam's show have been piling on Dave Rubin on any chance they get. It's become somewhat of a game, who can sneak in to a presentation, a livestream or what have you and demand:
"DEBATE SAM SEDER"
I don't have solid numbers per say, but I've caught a few shows where people call in showing off the fact that they managed to shout to Rubin or ask him "Why don't you debate Sam?" - at a live event. It's a highlight of the show, and if there's video footage of "the jab", you can almost bet it will be shared.
Sam Intervened
Not too long after the comments made by Rogan and other voices online, Sam felt it necessary to clear the air. He appeared on his show and expressed the reason for his focus on the Rubin Report. To be honest, he has some good points for attacking Rubin's ideas. Dave Rubin seems to be a bit of a grifter at times, and double talk needs to be called out.
That being said, Sam attempted to say his critiques were exclusively on Dave's ideas and not on the person itself. I'm paraphrasing here, but something along the lines of "I don't care about the person, I care about the bad ideas being spread... Someone who has the audience, the financial backing, is saying harmful stuff".
Again, I don't have to agree with Sam here, but if that's his reasoning it's not flawed per say. The whole point of debating ideas is to allow the best ones to win. Censorship, as we know, almost always backfires. So bad ideas should be confronted with better ones.
But, and here is the big but, Sam is not being entirely honest. In other words, the attacks are personal, and the audience expects them to be. I think Sam would have fared better if he admitted so. Truth is that it can be a business model, maybe not a productive one for political discourse, but good in building an audience.
Let's not forget that plenty of comedians today make a living dunking on Trump, and if one of them would attempt to torero step this truth, we would probably laugh at the attempt.
Deny, deny, deny
This is my current pet peeve on the subject. I think it's time to just admit it. Yes, people dunk on people, not everything is about ideas and we live in a world where "cult of personality" is the proper theme song that should be playing in the background.
I should add, that I'm not saying this is productive, and that we need it as a society for better democracies. I'm just stating that we should be more honest about the entertainment we consume, and yes, Opinion shows are entertainment.
We don't just read bullet points of facts, we watch people react to the facts, get angry, rejoice, insult or flatter. That's the fun, that's the reason why we love the "online arena" so much, right? Let's not kid ourselves and say we are participating on highly educational behaviors, because we endorse all forms of intellectualism.
Ironically
After just a few days of Sam denying that he attacks Dave Rubin personally, a T-shirt design made it to the Majority Report's instagram. It's somewhat of an inside joke, but it's based on something Rubin said a while ago that Sam and his crew made fun of.
Will these T-shirts get actually printed? Well, there seems to be a demand for it, which again, The Majority Report is a business, and as such should always consider staying profitable. So I would not be surprised if they actually release the shirt.
But again, let's cut the crap. This whole notion that "We are not making fun of Dave, we are making fun of his ideas" is simply not true, demonstrably not true. Now, if Dave can't take the punches, if he's being a snowflake about it (online personalities all get punched), that's a whole different conversation. But Sam doesn't seem to be dealing in honestly when he claims complete innocence and it's tiring.
Dishonest / harmful "ideas" need / deserve to be exposed as what they are -- dishonest and harmful.
Spinning it any other way would be a form of giving credit / value to these poor "ideas". Especially when you consider that what people like Dave Rubin are doing isn't so much about crafting a well thought out argument -- it's more about having a large platform and spewing out vast amounts of ignorant rhetoric with the understanding that some of it WILL stick, regardless of how stupid it is, because it's the same message that's being delivered ad nauseam.
Making indefensible claims, dancing around talking points and spewing out ten-dollar-words that make no sense in a debate, while loosely implanting ideas about 'cultural marxism', the 'blight of illegal immigration', and the 'grandeur of trickle-down American blooded libertarianism', is exactly what persona's like Dave Rubin are hoping to do.
Exposing their characters as at-best ignorant, and at-worst dishonest, is the most effective way to do the same for the ideas they're espousing.
Calling it "dunking" and feigning sensitivity is another way of subverting the discussion away from how harmful some of these ideas are.
All said -- I do enjoy Michael Brooks' impression of Dave Rubin.
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Oh, don't get wrong. Dave Rubin is incredibly wrong about so many things, it's not even funny. My point was more to the fact that Sam should embrace it. He is making fun of Dave, that's fine.... Sam used to be a comedian for christ's sake... and Brooks does do a great impression, I have to admit.
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Agreed. Embrace it and call it what it is. Pointing out that something is absurd, laughable and dangerous.
Cheers!
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Sam’s notion that “bad ideas are being spread” is dependent on his notion of what a bad idea is, and he is a rabid partisan. So, I don’t think he’s really about confronting bad ideas I think he’s about making it look like his ideas are better in a format where he’s always the winner. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him concede anything with grace. He’s always very smug. Whenever I’ve seen him debate people he’s all about his side. So to say he he wants to confront bad ideas is just a touch disingenuous. People are allowed to disagree and It’s not up to Dave to debate Sam. Dave owes Sam nothing. That’s not what his show is about. He’s exploring himself through the format of a show. He’s had both left and right on his show. Anarchists, economists and objectivists have all graced his show. That’s what makes it interesting. Overall, Dave just wants to have a conversation and let us, the audience, decide for ourselves what we believe. I appreciate that in a world of media that wants to tell us what and how to think. His show reminds me of these really old shows where two people just talk about big ideas. Debate is great and finding the best ideas is important, but if that’s not the format of the show, so be it. There is no lack of “dunking” out there. It gets boring.
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The only real critique I have of Dave Rubin is that he doesn't push back when he has a controversial guest. Granted, he doesn't owe me or anyone "confrontations", and it's important to make that clear.
His personal politics aside, which I tend to disagree with (like the usps/roads conversation) he seems like a civil guy, and as you clearly pointed out, his style of dialogue truly does not fit the Seder show or viceversa.
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Yeah. I find it refreshing. People always want him to “push back” but that’s not his format. I love the idea that I get to listen in on a fireside chat. Just a couple of people shooting the breeze about a set of ideas. Then, if I want something more “debate style” or confrontational I can turn my attention to the other million channels that do it.
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Curated for #informationwar (by @truthforce)
Ways you can help the @informationwar!
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