Great post. Let us say determinism is true. So, should we have to punish criminals if they have no free will?
Since when punishing criminals stopped crime anyways?
If we define guiltiness by free will then - they are not guilty.
You can't define guiltiness by free will
If it's sufficient just to commit crime to become guilty, then - they are guilty.
Well, sure, if you count free will as the end result
But, my point is, we have to punish them no matter 1. or 2. That means that institution of punishing is justified even if 1. - if by definition agent is NOT GUILTY.
there is always another option
Why? Because in deterministic world institution of punishment has a causal role, and if we remove it - new causal relations will be established, so we will make a deterministic world with crimes but not with deterring institution of punishment, what leads to chaos. The point is - people have to be punished, not by criterium of their guilt, but their behavior.
most criminals rule in high offices. Anarchy exists for the upper strata. is the lower strata that follows the laws and regulations.
It is reasonable to assume that removing punishment institution just can promote more criminal. That is almost obvious.
You can't define guiltiness by free will
Well if we agreed there is no free will, we, of course, know that we can't define guilt via the notion of free will. But if someone holds that for someone to commit crime necessary pre-condition is that he could have done the otherwise, but he didn't. He commits crime by free will. The point of determinism is that he actually COULDN'T do the other.
most criminals rule in high offices. Anarchy exists for the upper strata. is the lower strata that follow the laws and regulations.
Ok, but that is another story. That is ideology. I talk just about relations of determinism, free will, and punishment. But social injustice narrative , well yes, but that is another item. Anyway, keep going. Your post was good.
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Norway disagrees with you|
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
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:) I think Brasil disagrees with Norway
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how so?
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We are not living in a society of saints. It is tempting for people to use their power position on they behalf if they can (no matter on a big politicans scale or a little street thug scale). There are always people who think they can not be caught, that they are clever more than the system, or simply not think at all, just act. They are de facto criminals (not always de jure). Let say it is 10 % of overall population.
Now, think of the majority of population. They don’t do crime, not because they are simply better, but because their neural networks are learned (completely fits with determinism!) that crime is not acceptable behavior. In forming their neural networks (brains) to think so, a big causal role has idea of punishment. Not only the idea, but experience: personal experience (growing up, upbringing, rising), or learning from other people bad punishment experience. The punishment institution has been built into them since childhood, so they internalize it in some ethical code. So they don’t think any more about it, they simply act well and play according to rules. That is why they don’t make crime.
Now, remove institution of punishment and you will get chaos. You’ll get all that neural networks left to learn to act ethically just on weak (what empathy? Intelectual contemplation on Good and Evil? Come on…That is bullshit). We are not living in a society of saints!
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Actually most people do small crimes all the time. they simply don't get caught.
Also most people are religious so they believe in free will and some kind of eternal punishment.
Norway disagrees with you
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Actually most people do small crimes all the time. they simply don't get caught.
Yes, that is because they learned they can do it on a small scale.
Also most people are religious so they believe in free will and some kind of eternal punishment
Of course, the idea of punishment can play a causal role even transcended.
Norway disagrees with you
How? Don't they have prisons? Don't they have punishment system? Your Norway argument would have a sense just in case there is no punishment system in Norway at all. By the way economy is so good there, that motivation for crime is much smaller, than, say, in Brasil
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Their prisons are better than any of the apartments I ever lived. More like luxurious camping sites. The whole point is rehabilitation. not punishment.
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