Couldn't we have people who go out and find murderer's and rapists without the police? Private investigators for example. They would be paid for when someone or a group of people demand that a crime be investigated without forcing everyone to pay for that investigation.
If a natural disater hits texas can't we "expect" that communities and individuals come together to help? not because government is "forcing" them but because it's the right thing?
What's wrong with tiny hippie communes? and who says those communes can't develop into better and stronger communities?
what if you're opinion is a right? if the 51% say we need to give up a right for our saftey, then the 49% are forced to have their rights stripped from them. And this happens in all democracie's that have taxes.
If there is a group of people 3 people, and 2 of them vote that all 3 need to pay for a service, but the 3 doesn't want to pay for it, because the 3rd person is part of an arbitrary group they are forced by the other 2 to pay for it. This is taxes. If the service is war, which is murder but for government, and the 3rd person believes that it is murder and is morally wrong. They are still forced to pay for it. If you still don't think taxes are theft then ask yourself how taxes are collected when someone doesn't want to pay and tries to defend themselves from paying?
"England going from an absolutist monarchy to the constitutional republic it is today" , If you believe that is a constitutional republic is the system of government England, (and America) have today it is very wrong. A constitutional republic is far from democracy that rules both countries today.
The reason we wouldn't be able to have this conversation in North Korea is because of government.
"if this was true, how would you justify changing the way we are governed?.." I'm not wanting to change the way we are governed, I want to abolish government. We should base our interactions based off of morals and ethics and from anyway we can describe government it is morally wrong. We can say this because everything it funds is funded by theft of the people who were arbitrarily born/live there. Theft is violence and none of us should support violence. That's how I justify it.
I don't think an "anarchists view of human nature is too optimistic", I don't believe humans naturally want to harm and take advantage over one another. I don't believe that without government Humans wouldn't be able to come together for their own good. I'm not saying there would be absolutely no fighting between humans, In an age before technology there would be plenty of fighting and much of "he said she said" where no true justice could be found. But now we live in an age where people can be held accountable for their actions and be held responsible when those actions harm another. I don't think we would have been able to survive nearly as well without government before the age of technology, but I think now that we can communicate information farther and faster than ever before it is time to move towards a state of self government where people fix their mistakes because they feel guilt from the social pressures of defying a common moral sense of good, reputation will be what governs people. And when another comes to harm you over a matter where you did not harm anyone, you have the right to defend yourself and ask for help, but not force, from the community to defend yourself.
Do you believe that government is the only way people can behave appropriately? Do you trust the government to tell you what it is to behave appropriately?
RE: Why can't we survive without government/rulers?
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Why can't we survive without government/rulers?
I find this conversation interesting because clearly we're coming at this question from different angles. We could have private investigators to investigate crimes, and we could rely on the community after natural disasters. My read on government is that it was created organicly to solve the exact problems we both mention. Right after the French revolution, in England, a strain of conservatism developed in reaction to the bloodbath that resulted from that revolution, the basic idea was "shiiit, that was a mess, let's make sure that doesn't happen here."
I believe that government and socie are two intertwined forces, influencing one another. In the United States, for example, I think our government would be better the more people seriously engage with the system. I think the system was intended to be engaged with, not ignored.
I think society generally tells us how to behave, and government is the mechanism of enforcement.
I think, as an example of a governmental responsibility, that the government should investigate all murder
. Because murder is wrong and justice should be done when murder happens domesticly.
When I say I love
my country, I mean both the idea of America and the society that surrounds me. Ihave not agreed with every war we've fought, but your grandfather being adamantly against World War II in my mind is not a good enough reason for us to have not fought that one.
I'd enjoy talking about this more, but I'm a little drunk and extremely tired.
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