One Steemian put one of the central tenets of religious conservativism into words quite succinctly:
Without God, all atrocity is permitted. Even if there were no God it would be necessary to invent Him.
I've often heard this line in nearly exactly these words many times from people of religious conservative persuasion. It is a very apt summary of that worldview. Political differences such as that between liberalism and conservativism are deeply rooted in differences in the structure of personality. Freud proposed a three-tier model of personality with the Id representing primitive desires guided blindly by the pleasure principle, the superego representing an internalized ideal self representing our upbringing and what our parents and other authorities have taught us, guided by the morality principle, and the ego guided by the reality principle trying to juggle the demands of the other two. According to Freud, the Id represents the child, the superego the parent and the ego the adult.
According to conservatives, the source of morals can only be religions and traditions taught by authorities to each new generation. The liberal point of view is that morals are something to be negotiated and agreed upon. The conservative view is pessimistic in this regard and posits that a lack of clear and strongly held moral traditions will only lead to chaos. The conservative has little faith in anything but the superego to keep us in line.
My view is that accelerating change that has been going on for centuries and is only picking up speed, chiefly through technology, will force us to renegotiate our moral opinions in faster cycles than ever because we are encountering completely new things in an ever accelerating rate.
What do you think?
I grew up in a super religious environment, my grandmother was a fervent catholic, every afternoon we had to pray the rosary, and it's been several years since I left behind that religious fanaticism, and I assure you that before I didn't want to go out and destroy infidels and now I don't want to go out and make fun of the believers, because my parent just didn't raise me like that, so I think family values are the most important.
When I was a kid it seemed awesome but well after a while I really don't like that principle of some religions that are based on a reward system, "Do this, do that" and "You can get this or that ", like when the big book said "It's Prohibited" or "You should not kill" no shit really?
Of course we would do it, we are full of fear, fear that there is nothing else, fear for money, fear for the family, but some people get up of there butt and do something and some want to believe that the invisible man will save them, as I said I am not a believer but I am even going through a crisis, sometimes I think "Help me"
Maybe I'm just saying nonsense but I'm going to let Carlin bring it home.
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I think there should be provision for negotiation in morals with increasing trends in some aspects... But the basic ethics should not be compromised upon...
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Sounds reasonable. I do not know about the topic but I've noticed that many times we do not want to leave our conford area because we felt safe. But only when we risk to change (update) do we see that it is worthwhile and we realize that we lived in ignorance.
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I don't believe morals should change. The basics are in place already they just need to follow through with them. Religion is the problem. I am not religious as such but I do believe. That is enough for me. Religion has overstepped it's boundaries and is meddling too much. If one has to look at all the trouble in the world today most of it is down to some sort of dispute between religious groups. That tells me enough about religion and makes me sick that they are meant to be God fairing people.
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It's the interpretation of moral principles where the difficulty lies. Think bioethics, for example. Termination of pregnancy is one such thorny issue where there are many principles at odds. It will only get thornier when full-on transhumanism becomes technologically feasible.
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I have no problem with abortions. Why bring an unwanted child into the world.I know certain laws are changing regarding rape abortions. If someone is raped why must she be punished for the rest of her life having a child she didn't want. This is a reality that shouldn't even be an issue. I think the world has over complicated things.
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What if the pregnancy is close to term and the baby practically fully developed? Few people are ok with killing babies. There is no exact line where a fetus turns into a baby. In most countries, the vast majority of abortions are done in the first trimester. I don't remember what the law says about it in Finland but it is legally viewed differently depending on the stage at which it is done. Also, many women say abortion hasn't been a simple thing to do on an emotional level. That issue is far from simple when you consider every type of case you may encounter.
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Agreed. The longer it is in the process the harder it is. There has to be a cut off time.
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A child can be given for adoption too.
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That, too, can be quite problematic.
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Sadly my experience with liberals these days are that they are the egomaniacal bunch running around saying they fight dictators while they dictate to everyone else what to say, think, feel and accept. As for negotiate, they don't negotiate anything, they demand like a spoilt child who has earned nothing but expects the world to bend to it's every whim.
I am a religious person and my biggest fight is not with wanting to change people into what I want them to be, hell I could care less about the choices other's make, but I sure do care for being told how to live my life by people who will not tolerate what they dish out to others.
Respect me to live my life as I respect you to live your life. Very simple really
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That is equally true.
I understand your point of view. There is room in this world for both religious conservatives and non-religious liberals and every combination.
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Amen mate. It is easy to see that a little respect goes a long long way, but it must come from both sides because as people we do become mentally and emotionally spent when all we do is give give give without being replenished.
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There is nothing wrong with conservativism per se. I somewhat conservative myself, too. One attitude or the other taken to an extreme particularly when it becomes groupthink is not healthy.
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That there is the problem and when you take things to the extreme and these start negatively impacting other people's lives conflict arises
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