Priyanka Chopra

Priyanka Chopra Jonas wears many hats. She's an actress, a producer and a businesswoman. She came into the spotlight after winning the Miss World pageant in the year went on to become a successful Bollywood star. Now she's perhaps the only person from India to have made a real space for themselves in the entertainment industry in the

West.

She's one of the BBC's women this year. And we're going to talk to her about her career and activism. Priyanka Chopra Jonas. Thanks very much for speaking to the BBC. You're obviously a successful star in two countries on two continents. But when you were growing up, that was a very different world.
When people asked you what do you want to be, what did you say and at what point did you feel that the canvas

could be as big as this? No, I never thought the canvas could be as big as this. This was not ever a aim or ever even a
thought. I came from a family of doctors, physicians, military. Most of my family has been in the service.

My father and my mother both were in the military, so it wasn't a realistic ambition at that time. I come from a small

town in India. My parents, both highly progressive, always pushed me towards whatever dream I wanted to have. So every year I would have a different dream. Sometimes I wanted to be a homemaker. Sometimes I wanted to be an
engineer. I don't know, but it was never entertainment, that was never realistic.
But I got into entertainment when I was and after that life just... I kept looking at the next rung of the ladder. And then

slowly I looked back and I was like feet above. You became Miss World at a really young age, at the age of... I don't even know what it meant. And it appeared to be, there's been lots of dramatic changes in your life, but it was probably the first one and possibly the most dramatic one.
Do you think beauty pageants can be empowering? See, this is a very convoluted, complex, complex question. I think that the equity on physical beauty when it comes to women are defined predominantly by the male gaze and that
makes it confusing. You know that ‘Oh my gosh, your waist is not the right size’ or ‘your height is not the right size’ or
‘you look a certain way that makes you beautiful and that doesn't make you beautiful’.

So that being judged by the male gaze and the beauty standards that have been created by patriarchal norms because

women have for a very long time lived as secondary citizens. That's hard. But when it came to me, my pageant, it gave me a springboard that I probably wouldn't have had. So individualistically for me, now as I look back in retrospect, I don't think I would ever be a part of a pageant now, this year old me.

But at that time it was very, very empowering for a small town girl on a massive stage, with contestants being viewed around the world. You know, it just felt like wow, my life has suddenly changed. The cameras were like that and now it's all on me, so that was a very empowering feeling. But more than that it was a springboard to the entertainment business, which I don't think I would have ever had or chosen if that hadn't happened to me.

So you know you said if you had to go back as the person you are now you wouldn't. Why? I just don't want competition like that. I don't want to now, at my age, I don't want to be judged for my body type or if I can give a quick-witted answer in seconds while the dong is going.
There are complexities around pageants and they can be highly empowering, but there's a lot that needs to change for them to be that way. So winning that pageant gave you the foot in the door, so to speak, in Bollywood. But it wasn't

immediate acceptance or success.
It’s an industry in which even today I would say to a large extent the notion of beauty has got to do with you know, the colour of your skin, a certain body shape. Were you, did you ever feel like you were body shamed? Oh absolutely, I was called black cat, dusky. What does even dusky mean? In a country of all dusky people? I mean we're literally brown in India but we still have so much equity on light skin.

And of course, that comes from our colonial past. It comes from, you know, it's not even been years that we've shared the British Raj. So we still hold on to I think what we were made to feel subliminally, and it is up to us and our generation to be able to cut those ties and change it for the next generation so that they don't inherit the equity on light skin.

They don't inherit the gender equality that we probably thought was normal. I thought it was completely normal and absolutely OK to sit for hours and hours on set while my male co-actor just took his own time. Decided whenever he wanted to show up on set is when we would shoot.
It was normal, you know, when fairness commercials came by and it was a really big shiny brand. It was normal for

actors, male and women, to say: ‘Oh, wow, I have glowy white skin now.’ There was nothing wrong around it. When I was I did think that I was dark skinned. I did think that I was not pretty enough. I did think that I would have to work a lot harder even though I thought I was probably a little bit more talented than my co-actors who were lighter skinned. I thought that was right.
I thought that because it was just so normalised so I think as I grew up I saw things in my career that I didn't even know

were right or wrong and I had to be educated and learn along the way. You studied in the US. You've written in your book about how you faced racism then, but that wasn't the only time.
Almost two decades later, I think you also faced racism again when your first song released in the US. Did it hurt as much both times? And what was different about how you dealt with it? Well, I think the racism is prevalent wherever we

go, and I think that when I was younger I didn't have the mental equipment to be able to deal with how that made me feel.
I felt smaller. I felt invisible. I felt like I didn't deserve to be treated the same way as everyone else. Because I thought

that that's what my reality was when I was in school. This is like You know, you're an adolescent in America, and I felt like: ‘Oh my gosh, maybe being different does make me less than.
’ But as I grew up, I saw that I'm actually, I'm a lucky one. That you know, yeah sure I faced racism, people called me names or you know, said mean things to me. But people around the world get killed for it, for the colour of their skin,

and I count myself as the lucky one, part of the lucky few that are able to stand up for themselves and have a voice for themselves.
You've also been very vocal about the pay gap, and let's talk about that for both the industries that you're a part of. But let's start with Bollywood. What's been your experience of that? I've never had pay parity in Bollywood.

I've done something movies I think, but I've never got paid the same amount as my male co-actor. I just about after years of working now finally in my show, Citadel, finally had that, but that took years. And when you say you didn't have pay parity, I mean how different was it? I would get paid about % of my male co-actor. Wow. It's large, substantially large, and so many girls still deal with that.

And I'm sure I will too if I worked with a male co-actor now in Bollywood. So that was my next question. Has it changed at all or is it changing? It's changing, but I don't think it's changed. I think even if I do that now, if I worked in a movie with a male co-actor as a co-lead, I mean, I'll let you know when I do a movie like that because I'm going to do that as a social experiment.

But I don't think I would get the same renumeration as a male co-actor. And is Hollywood any different? Well, it's the first time it's happened to me has happened in Hollywood, so I don't know going forward because this was my first show with someone as a co-lead in Hollywood, after years of working in Hollywood, I'm finally doing lead parts.
It took a really, really long time. A lot of pavement pounding to be able to get roles that in a mainstream way. And I

always wanted to be a part of mainstream entertainment, whether that was in Bollywood or Hollywood. So it takes a long time anyway. But it took a really, really long time for me to be able to get to a part where I am doing leading roles and then to be able to command that kind of parity.
But yeah, I've seen that there. I just don't know going forward if it will continue or not. I'll keep you posted on that one

too. You know, one of the things I've heard and it was said by a man, is that women don't get paid as much as men because women don't ask. No, that's not true. We've asked, we've asked many, many times.
My generation of female actors have definitely asked. It's been conversations and I know that because a lot of my

colleagues are my friends and we've talked about it. That their representation... because girls are a little bit afraid that they lose work if they are troublesome. That's something, that's another thought process that exists in I think not just Bollywood, but in any patriarchal culture that, girls should just be easy to work with.

Always be smiling, pleasant. They should never complain. And I was, I behaved like that for a very long time till I kind of found my own footing and I was kind of OK with doing smaller movies that I shouldered on my own shoulders and not having to cater or pander to the male actors or their needs, and whatever their diva behaviour.

And then I kind of found my own voice and said, you know what? It's OK to do a smaller film rather than stand for that kind of treatment. So I don't know how much it is changing, but girls have definitely asked and not got it. Alongside her acting Priyanka Chopra Jonas has worked with the UN Children's Fund for over years.

We followed her during her trip to Lucknow in northern India, meeting young girls and students as part of her role. You're a UNICEF goodwill ambassador. What does that role mean to you? When you're a public person, that's what the public consumes, right? Because they're interested in seeing where I am, where I'm going.
So I feel like that's where I find my purpose is if I can use the platform that I have when I arrive at a place like this, and
I'm talking about the initiatives and the problems these children face, maybe the people who consume me will also
consume their message. This is the greatest job of my life. When you're at these places, you hear very difficult and
distressing stories.
Then you often have to go back to a world which is very different, in showbiz. How do you manage that dichotomy? You kind of don't. I think I need therapy, I think I do. I'll still not forget one time I was doing a UNICEF trip in Africa and I

had to fly back straight and I went to the Emmys and I remember I was sitting in the hair and makeup trailer and this was like two days later and I saw these fabulous gowns and jewels and diamonds and stuff that have come for me to wear and I just couldn't help it and I just started crying and I was like look at the dichotomy of my life.

I mean, there's a world in which I don't need to do this. This is not my job, but I do it because that's my purpose. That's the purpose that I have found. It's very difficult to go back into a normal life when you see the kind of human suffering that I have witnessed with UNICEF around the world. But I like to focus on the hope.

I like to focus on the many, many volunteers and people that have come together to better these children's lives. I'm going to take it back a bit to your life again. You know when you went to the US you were a huge Bollywood star here, known, loved, adored. And then you went to this country trying to break into an industry there, and you've written

about how there were rooms where you didn't know anyone, where there were parties, where you were not part of the A list set, where you were in the other section. What was that experience like?
Humbling. The one thing about being an actor in Bollywood is female or males...the men enjoy a lot more of it, but women do too. You're kind of told or made to feel like there's nothing greater than you when you walk into a room.

And that comes from the immense love that the Indian people have for Hindi movies.
The audience loves Hindi movies and they love the stars that are in them. So when you become a Hindi movie actor, you kind of feel like it's all about me. You know, I'm the greatest thing that to have ever happen. Because I've made it to

the eyes and the minds and the hearts of millions and billions actually, of people who watch Hindi movies around the world.
It's a really powerful feeling and then when you walk out of your comfort zone and you go into another country you have to kind of remind yourself that: ‘Oh, that that's not a fact. That's not true.’ Just because there's a section of people that love me, that doesn't necessarily mean that Hollywood is just waiting for me to make movies right.

Like: ‘Oh yeah Priyanka, we were just waiting for you to arrive to cast you in the next big movie.’ It doesn't work that way and I was like: ‘OK alright, this is what it's gonna take.’ I kicked off my shoes, I got rid of my entourage, I would go into meetings by myself. I would introduce myself. I would take my showreel. I would say this is the work I've done. This is the work I'm willing to do.
I worked with acting coaches. I worked with dialect coaches, did auditions, got rejected, cried, went back for another

one. You know I did the hustle that I needed to do to make it in any new industry, but I had to let go of what I thought were my achievements just because I wanted to penetrate a new industry.
Well and now you've accomplished many firsts. For South Asians, you were the first South Asian lead actor for network TV program. You've been the first South Asian I think on multiple international magazine covers. Now the work that's
coming your way, is there a reflection in that that South Asians will be accepted as actors playing whatever role? Or is

it still very much that you're being typecast? Well, a little bit of both if I have to be honest. I mean, I think maybe I've
built

certain amount of credibility where I know people in the industry, I'm doing interesting work. But I think that it's really
hard to be South Asian and Indian. I think that we are finally finding our collectiveness together, we are banding together, we're standing by each other and that's what it's going to take.
What I think it really is going to take is, don't try and pull each other down. We need to band together, and I'm seeing that, but there's still a long way to go. I think we also have to empower young actors to come and feel powerful enough to come into mainstream, but also call out the studios for not casting Indian actors or South Asian actors as

main leads.
You get immense attention in India. You now also get immense attention in the US, as far as your personal life is concerned. Also, you're married to somebody who's been in the public spotlight, your husband, Nick Jonas, and the attention is both positive and negative. Have you drawn boundaries? Have you ever felt at any point it’s too much? I

need to stop social media.
I do, I went on a social media break myself. I took off Twitter from my phone. It can be a lot sometimes because you can just never be good enough on social media no matter what you do, there will always be people that will say you did this wrong. You wore this wrong. You didn't say something about something. You should have said something about

something.
And it's just like you can never please everyone and I realized that very early in my career as a public person. When I was younger in my s, I really needed everyone to love me because I was a public person. I was a new entertainer.
I was like why? Why is this person hating me for this reason? Or why is this being written about me for this reason? But I quickly realise when you're a public person you are consumed by people, you are literally dinner table conversation. I

realise that the only way to protect my sanity and myself was to surround myself by people that are genuinely happy for me, that genuinely love and care about me.
And my support system, whether that's my family, my friends, my team is very strong so that I don't need my
validation from people, I don't need my validation from the comments on social media. I'm not working every day to be
famous. I'm working to make movies, to make art for people to watch what I do and the by-product of that happens to be fame.

So once I made that distinction and that bifurcation, I think it became a lot easier for me to live a normal life and to
just be a normal human being. In India, Priyanka has faced criticism for not commenting on domestic issues while being vocal on global issues surrounding women. She didn't respond to a question about the criticism.
In recent years other actors in India have stayed away from commenting on social and political matters in the country, fearing reprisal. You support a lot of different causes through UNICEF and otherwise as well. What would you say is

closest to your heart? The future matters to me a lot. I'm not a head of state.
I'm not a politician, I'm an entertainer and I can't change laws. I can't create laws, but I have influence so I can speak
about the things that I have the ability to speak about, things that I feel like I can change. So I think the future of the next generation or the children that come after us has been very important whether that is making sure that they have access to education, understand their own rights.
Again, I live in America now where... we're going backwards. Women's rights are literally being criminalized, for women's right to her own body, and in India the Supreme Court passed a decision where it's not, where a woman has
autonomy in her own right. Now if you think about it, that makes no sense, b

ecause you would think that a country like India would actually... patriarchal, would not be able to do that, but we're seeing that in America, so it's like we're living in a time where we're moving forward steps but we're moving back at
the same time. But all I think about is what am I doing every single day? Can I be a good person and make sure that I create actions within my own life that maybe have a butterfly effect? And actually you talked about progress and that is the theme of, it's a hopeful theme of BBC women this year Yay, thank God.
We are in a couple of years where you've got teenage girls not being allowed to go to school in Afghanistan. You've got
the protests happening in Iran. We know that post-pandemic, the number of women, more women than men are out of work. And I know I just rattled off a load of negatives there, but that's why from someone like you, are you optimistic?
Because we've gone backwards in many ways in the last one or two years.

That’s so scary. But are you optimistic about the growth, about the future of women’s rights? I think we have gone
backwards. We've also gone forward. Where we are seeing five steps back, we're also seeing young girls standing up
for themselves and their colleagues. We're also seeing women banding together like we've never seen before.

We're also seeing women standing up for their rights, and we're also seeing men who are being allies to women. The

pendulum shifts in many, many directions before it settles, right? So it goes into extremes before it settles. So here I
am, hoping that progress will come because the pendulum is moving in such different directions, but women ourselves are finding our power.

We always had a voice, we just weren't allowed to use it. But now we are using it so I'm hoping that that will create the
progress and change that we really need to see women have. And today in Lucknow when I was travelling I saw so many women that never even knew that they had the potential of being earning members of their families, earning young girls who were supposed to be married off at who have banded together, suddenly got information that it's illegal in my country for child marriage.

And they have fought against other girls who are being forced into child marriage. So when you see an example of
young girls, of young kids taking the power of their rights into their hands, that's when I think that we are seeing
progress and that's me being hopeful. Well, thank you so much for speaking to the BBC, to BBC women Thank you so
much for asking me amazing questions.