Violently Ill: Imagining a murderer

in psychology •  7 years ago  (edited)

Is all aggression a product of a sick mind?

I have done many different uncomfortable thought experiments. They are uncomfortable because often I place my imaginary self in the midst of situations that are personally terrible. I do this to prepare my mind for the worst and simulate possible actions I may take. This is not necessarily because I think I may end up in these situations and Sometimes I attempt to put myself in the position of someone else. This is just to safely remove the sense of mental security I have.

For a long time, I have simulated scenarios in which I may be required to defend myself, someone I care about or a stranger to try to visualize what my actions and reactions may be. I have tried to imagine what it would take for me to take a life in self-defense and have so far been unsuccessful in imagining a scenario where I wouldn't do all in my power to preserve the life, even of the most heinous of person.

The problem with this is that my unwillingness (mental simulation wise at least) to use deadly force is likely to lead to mine or another's demise. If faced with someone intent on taking a life or without immediate control of their aggression, there is little someone as untrained as myself can do to restrain them. It would literally be fight or die and it would likely take all I have just to survive.

Let's say I choose death over taking a life. Even if it is me alone to pay the ultimate price, it doesn't really seem to help anyone that I have stuck to some kind of moral code. My family will still struggle, I cannot support my daughter's development, I cannot add anymore value directly to the world. It seems to be a life wasted.

If I am attempting to defend someone and fail because I am unwilling to take a life and lose my own in the process, then those I am defending are now in the same position as if I had not attempted to save them at all. It would have been more beneficial to walk away as at least I will survive. That doesn't seem like something I would do either though.

So, this leaves me with doing all I can to subdue the threat, even if it means to take their life. That way, the life that is taken is that of an aggressor, which many will agree is a better option than that of an innocent. This would mean not all life is of equal value though, wouldn't it?

But, this makes me want to then put myself in the place of the aggressor, the person who is intent on an attack. This is difficult for me to simulate as it is not a position I have ever taken. So I wonder, what would it take for me to want to kill. Not in self defense but in a first move. I know two murderers, one of which I got into a fight with and won (when I was eleven).

When this boy was eighteen, he held up and killed an attendant at a local service station and someone saw him do it. He was not an overly happy child and he came from a pretty hard home but, is that an excuse to take a life for a few hundred dollars? He was on the run for about a week before they caught him. Where did they catch him? Climbing over the fence of the eyewitness' home, he was going to murder him too.

The next, a girl I knew in Australia from another school. Straight A student, school captain of her school, a whole life ahead of her. I met her at an inter-school event and we got a long well, a really intelligent, funny and glowing girl. She stabbed her slightly younger brother to death with a kitchen knife at her 18th birthday party. Why, he wouldn't give her CD back. She had been drinking.

I also have a friend that was murdered when he was 21. Nice guy, funny, a bit of a clown. He was also tall, strong and didn't hold a lot of fear for his personal safety. He and some friends were leaving a bar when they saw two girls they knew being hassled by some guys in the street, one thing led to another and my friend got stabbed with a bottle opener knife 4 times. Such a small knife, only a few centimeters long. It pierced his heart and he was gone in seconds. This one was close, I was meant to be out with them and wonder what if. Could I have stopped a death, or would it have been mine?

Even with these types of events relatively close to me, I still have trouble putting my mind in a position to kill. What I wonder is this, is every violent person mentally ill, at least at the time of the violence?

There are psychopaths who kill for sport but, most would likely say that they are undoubtedly mentally ill. Can they help it? The man from a broken home, beaten, soon homeless and on drugs, was that his goal to murder when he was playing marbles in the school grounds? What about an angry drunk who snaps over a CD? As soon as it happened, she dropped the knife, the anger left her body and she sobbed in disbelief at what she had done to the little brother she loved so much. Or the drunk guy that pulled a tiny little knife, he intended harm but, murder?

Is this violence inside me too? Do we all have an animal capable of taking life? I would say yes, the capability is there but fortunately, most of us never face the conditions necessary for us to snap and kill. Thankfully. For if we did, if the right lever was pulled, we are likely to fight tooth and nail to either survive or protect. I hope that I never have to find this out.

But to become the aggressor, I cannot see that in myself, I am yet to be able to put myself in a situation where I would willingly kill without a threat to me or another. Perhaps to do so, one has to be ill, a mind broken for one reason or another, a lack of mental control or programming installed. And that may be the problem, how can I choose to mentally simulate an out of control mind?

But, even if I did find a reason to, would I tell you?

But, I can be aggressive. I can and have used my words to harm with intent. I have been angry and wielded a blade of words, and I have looked to hurt small, but destroyed instead. Is this any better? Sure, there were no actual deaths, no murder, no physical harm done but, how far is the next step? Is thee a slippery slope just beyond my sight? How steep could it be?

The first, was a long sad road. The second, a moment of rage. The third, an unexpected outcome. I do not want any of those for me, or for anyone I love, know or even a stranger. Why are these acts being normalized, turned into statistics, trends, political campaigns? These are individual and very personal actions and perhaps that is where the solution lays, in the individuals.

Lately, I have been thinking a little about violence and I will continue at times. I want to investigate some areas but, I know very little about it so, I hope that people will be charitable in their discussion. The reason I do this is that I don't think that any of the three people thought their whole life that they were going to kill but, life turned, paths changed, minds broke in a moment. Perhaps, with a little thinking, a few words, some dialogue, we may unknowingly stop another incident from happening. Perhaps we may stop ourselves.

Taraz
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Think of it this way. Whatever may be the case or premise (about the binary choice of the underlying mental state), once that reprehensible act is committed, that individual is a "strict liability" for the rest of the living organisms (and us humans). Actions have consequences. Always.

Is there no coming back? No salvation? Maybe we are all a liability waiting to happen.

Every next breath is a conscious, opportunity for salvation, BUT it is for the ones who self-discipline themselves, "realize" this, and develop systems, thoughts, and life strategies to come back.

I agree. It is an internal rehabilitation undertaken by the individual. But, can they ever be truly forgiven?

I am sure we can safely say that the answer is obvious. No. Life is Holy, and a Sacred Gift. It does not matter if the life taken was of 1 person, or 1 state. The individual also in his/her heart knows how it will all end. The mark of an act is etched in eternity. That is one path, I hope, no one experiences.

If all believed in life as holy, perhaps this discussion would not be required. Illness of the mind however would bring up the 'Know not what they do' problem.

Then, let's do our best to have everyone believe life is holy.

Sooo......I just read this and I'll take from the start, with my 'experience' after studying Criminology (and sick minds) for many years now.

To answer the very first question: I believe yes, one way or another, any kind of aggression derives from a problematic mind.

Now, about the 3 situations you're mentioning (and I'm very sorry about your friend by the way :/ ) :

  1. That guy no, he didn't do all that because he came from a broken home. I know people who came from broken homes, abusive parents or no parents, poverty and all and they never become killers. He did this because his mind was sick as you say. And this is proved by case 2.
  2. See? This girl, with everything 'right' on paper and she killed her brother over a silly reason because she was drunk (!!!). What does that prove? That background probably has nothing to do with an aggressive being. Now...
  3. About your friend :( Yes, you might have been killed in his place. Or no, you might have prevented the whole thing. Or, you might have ended up both dead. This has nothing to do with the aggressor per se, but with the 'bad timing' and different evolution of a story if something was teenie tiny different.

Everyone can be aggressive, and abusive, in different forms. And after all my studying I got to the conclusion that potentially we're all killers. Now, it depends if it's a rage/passion crime, a premeditated one or a psycho one. Those 3 categories are also categories of people. The easiest to happen then, even to the best of people, is the first one. You get blind of rage because you saw or heard something and you do it -and then you probably regret it.

I think about those stuff too. I'm like, would I be capable? The other day sitting with my boyfriend at home and there was a fly. He said 'come on kill it' and I went with my slipper to do so. And then I saw it putting it's feet together (you know, like a human with an evil plan) and I was like 'but look, it's so cute now, I can't do it'. He smiled at me but now that I think about it what an idiot I was - it was a freaking fly! (which stayed in the apartment for 2 days by the way, pissing me off). So would I be able to deadly hurt a human being? In extreme circumstances, I think yes. Because it is in human nature, in instinct.

This is an excellent crime book of Rendell's I read when I was a kid, where she puts herself in the side of a rapist and describes everything from his side instead. It influenced me a lot and I think you'll enjoy it and maybe get some answers to your questions (similar questions you can see at the book's description actually)

https://books.google.dk/books/about/Live_Flesh.html?id=UcF41D3uiRAC&redir_esc=y
More on Rendell: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/may/02/ruth-rendell-obituary-crime-writer

To end my comment, yes, we can stop ourselves. But there'll always be that 'click' out there that might make you snap...

Thank you to going to such depth. I don't want to read the book yet as I have post or two about rape that i would 'like' to write. Once I read it, I am likely to be influenced and change 'my' thinking. if you know what I mean.

I am physically capable but it is hard for me to imagine a circumstance but, I am pretty sure that in defense there are actually many that would click hard enough to trigger, likely in protection of my family there is not much I wouldn't do. I see this as a risk.

My wife wouldn't kill the fly either and even if I was willing (I am unwilling) she would make me spend as long as it took to save it. She once was late visiting me when we were dating because she saw a seagull that looked thirsty so went to buy it water and a plastic dish so it could drink.

Now, time for bed. It has been nearly 24 hours awake.

Good night, sleep well :)

On the Memory course I'm taking (post coming soon ;) ) I bumped into a movie (it's called Memory Understanding in Movies) called 'The Kit Runner' which shows a violent scene, the friend watching another friend getting in trouble when they were kids, and doing nothing about it and how that works in his mind for years and influences him - interesting!

It sure will so yeah, you should write your thoughts first, uninfluenced!
And yes, that's what I have in mind too: loved ones. I think I would do anything for them, especially when in risk as you say.
Awwww your wife is SO cute :D <3
Time for bed here too, 2am - not 24 hours awake though :P
You too! :)