The old me
I have the advantage of hindsight now, but prior to 2001, I was naive and an emotional / mental abuser. I was an individual who focused on intellect as I have a high IQ, so I can use it for control and the acquisition of money and things. For me, I felt that this was the dream and so I worked hard to make it happen. As a result, I controlled the flow of money into and out of our relationship. Being that I earned way more than she did, I felt a sense of privilege which justified the control. Because I did the work, it was mine to dictate how it was spent. Subconsciously, it was my way to control her within the relationship and if she did not follow my financial plan I got very angry and it would cause lots of conflicts. It got so bad that I forbid her to have her own vehicle, justified because of my desire to control the cash flow and I even got angry when she purchased a $5 pair of pants.
My desire to control the money went so deep that every penny had to be accounted for. I kept track of everything through computer programs and required that she turn over all receipts and justify to me the purchases. In most relationships budgeting and keeping track of the money is important, but I took it far beyond a healthy level and used it as an excuse to control and manipulate my wife. I used it as a weapon against her.
My drive to make as much money as I could drove me into the ground and I ended up with nothing. I lost everything in my life and at one point I slept in the back seat of my car. Our relationship could not handle the abuse and me using money as a weapon. As a result we split up in 1999. Over the next few years I crashed and burned as a result of depression and suicide attempts. My surrender in 2001 and subsequent work to heal and change my thoughts and behaviours saved my life.
My love for money trumped Carey and it destroyed my relationship with her.
The New Me
When I healed, I went back to work and found a whole new approach for my relationship with money. The acquisition of money was no longer my objective, instead my focus was on healthy relationships. I still needed money to pay the bills, but it was a low priority as my desire to have healthy relationships trumped everything. As a result, my decision making process changed and I found that the flow of money into my life came easier. I did not have to work as hard and the stress of money went away. My priority was to be independent and I did very well at achieving that in my life.
When we reconciled our relationship in 2002, we spent hours upon hours for months and months talking about and resolving the issues from our old relationship. Money being a big topic of discussion and maintaining our independence was our top priority. We did not want to be co-dependent and as such we worked hard to maintain that independence which also included having our own bank accounts and negotiating which bills we would pay.
What I had to do is rebuild the trust that was lost as a result of my violent and abusive behaviour. While we lived in the city, money was still important as we were dependent on the system. We had a mortgage once again, bills to pay, vehicles to maintain, etc. Negotiation was used to figure out who would pay which bills. I wanted to ensure that the temptation to use money as a weapon would never come back into my life.
When we decided to move off grid, we were blessed with a hot housing market. We purchased our home in St. Albert for 158,000 and sold it for 340,000 after two years. While the old me struggled for years and years, money now flows with ease because I let go of it. In fact, the cryptocurrency I make on this blog is money that we don't 'need'. But I do have an idea on what I can use it for. When I quit my job in 2007, my old boss gave me a $10,000 bonus. Who gets paid for quitting? Our move off grid also meant that we would focus on living without money as we return to living off the land. That was the final piece for our surrender to ensure that money no longer had a grip on our lives. The proceeds of the house sale paid for the land and the infrastructure we needed and it ran out quickly.
Now we live on $750 a month, sometimes much less. When ever we have a need, Carey and I both sit down and figure out what we are going to do. There is always an opportunity that presents itself, it is just a matter of having the eyes to see it and the will to get it done. By us surrendering to Creator, we have always been provided for. We always have food on the table, gas in the tank and our only bill (the phone / internet) has been paid. Because our need for money is so low now, we focus on other works to provide for our needs. There are times where we have zero cash. Zip. None. For many years this would stress us out as our faith was still young. But now it is of little concern for us as we know that something will present to help us out. It has always happened in our 10+ years.
Being able to sit down and not use this fictional construct as a weapon against my wife has been a big part of my recovery and makes our relationship go much more smoothly. My relationship with her is worth more than all the money in the world. I will no longer allow this piece of paper get between us. When ever I bring anything home, I hand it to her. Not because she is in control of it, but mainly to ensure it is all in one spot as I don't have any bank accounts, credit cards, line of credit, mortgages or debt. We live within our means and that has reduce the amount of stress significantly. Our needs are now met by both of us working together to plant gardens, build our home, look after live stock and learn how to live off the land.
This transition was not easy, but we are now at a point in our lives where we are having fun and don't use weapons against one another. Peace has descended upon our hearts and our relationship. Our needs are mostly met by Mother Earth and for the little things that we have yet to find a way to provide for ourselves, we can acquire through sharing skills that we have to help serve others in meaningful ways.
Life is all about relationships and I need to work hard not to over power and suppress my wife. I need to make sure she has a voice and that we are equal in this inter-independent relationship that we have worked so hard to build.
@carey-page wrote a blog on this same issue and you can read her side of the story here:
https://steemit.com/reconcilingrelationships/@carey-page/he-said-she-said-managing-money
Please remember to visit her blog too as people will be making comments there as well. This is only half the story, the other half is on her blog. It is important that you read her side too!
Wow. Thank you for sharing this. As a single income household my husband controls the mine. He doesn't go to the extent you did with charts and stuff and if I ask for money he would probably give it to me but it is "his money" cause he earned it. And acts like what I'm doing at home, cooking, cleaning, caring for the kids isnt work because I dont get paid. Sigh... I love him very much. Our relationship is very trying at times. We have a lot of work to do, I am pretty sure we can get through the crap and come out on the other side. Still I hope I can generate a decent income here on steemit so that I can be financially independant while working toward my goal of not owing money and becoming self reliant.
Over to @carey_page's page I go!
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Hey Amy.
Yeah, I hear you, it can be tough to do the housework because that is always less glamorous yet gives a lot of --- well ... work!
I can relate as I too do most of the chores... glad I have a job though, gives me more bargaining power in the relationship :p
Cheers
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Haha, I'm glad we relate so well!
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https://www.drlaura.com/
Dr Laura has been a stupendous source of inspiration for me, I have all her books. Her info has also helped my husband heal from his trauma growing up with a divorce situation. I had no idea how that would affect our relationship until I started listening to dr Laura, great inspiration for mothers and women! Her responses can seem harsh and hard to take sometimes, but she always has her reasons!
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Yes, it can be tough dealing with money issues. I got into a lot of trouble claiming the money and thinking it was 'mine'. I hope you guys can work it out. One of the things I did was to recognize that being independent required that I look after myself. That means doing my own laundry, doing dishes, cleaning and that sort of thing. The burden is no longer on my wife to do it. I do it as it is my way to demonstrate my independence and maintain my independence. It changed my outlook on our relationship doing that as well.
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That would be a lot for him! Maybe one day :)
I think we'll be okay, it's been 10 years and so much unbelievable shite, and I still want to be with him, so we should be good :)
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This is a very inspirational story. This proves that the most important thing in our lives is not money and when we take our focus off of money, we can figure out what exactly we're made for. Most of the people in the world can't figure out their true self because they are bound to spend their lives earning money for monthly expenses. You're blessed in many ways. Thumbs up @wwf for taking the right route in your life.
By the way, why was your ex-boss so happy on your resignation? I could not stop my laugh after reading this:
Very interesting post!
Steem On!
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lol. It was actually a reward for building up the business so well. I managed a small IT firm and when I took it over it was hemorrhaging money. In about 5 years I turned it around and it was making money and had a very high customer retention rate which is very rare in the IT industry. It was his way of saying thank you.
I do indeed feel blessed my friend. Thanks for writing and participating in our He Said / She Said post.
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After reading the blogs of you two @carey-page & @wwf i found the importance of TRUST. To me it is not only the case with Husband Wife relation but it is a message to all the relationships that TRUST is the core reason behind every successful bond.
In one of your Previous Blogs you wrote how did you change yourself after 2001 and today i got answer of that point actually My Friend.
Here is My confusion and a question to Both of You Mr. & Mrs. @wwf
Mistrust issue happened due to LOW INCOME ? or it was just the point Who is more powerful to lead the Family??
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Trust is a huge component of relationships, but the mistrust was a result of my abusive behaviour and not money. I used money as a weapon against her, which caused mistrust. The break up of our relationship and me loosing everything in my life resulted in no income. Money was not the cause, my abusive behaviour was the cause. So I accept full responsibility for my actions and I refuse to blame it on money or anything else for that matter. That is what it takes to accept responsibility and be 100% responsible and accountable for ones life. Nobody to blame, not even the money. It is not the money's fault.
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I would agree with @wwf his abusive behavior was an issue. With that said I was so passive that it also contributed to the problem. He would say something and I would go into my turtle shell and not know what to do. I didn't confront him or stand up for myself.
So in the end we both had much to work on.
Thanks for your comment and question.
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Thank you so much The Beautiful Couple for your kind advises. Yes i will follow these steps when i get married for sure to enjoy the Peace of Life.
My Best wishes and Prayers are always with you People @wwf @carey-page <3 <3
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One of the great realities I learned about a relationship is that we both come into it with a lot of misconceptions....anxieties...ways of looking at life...most of us are trying to feel "secure" or for a man..."strong"...depending on ones upbringing....we can carry a lot of baggage....
In order to keep a lid on my fear...I felt a need to "control" things...money...kids...were the prime examples...
Fortunately I was willing to see my life...realize I wasn't the person I wanted to be and seek assistance...I have learned that the greatest gifts for a "real" relationship is the ability to be vulnerable and be safe communicating that...both male and female...if one achieves or works on that...the rest flows easier....
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Indeed. I was taught that men don't cry and to be tough. I was able to break that paradigm. I do cry, I am vulnerable at times and I have learned how to express my feelings in a healthy way. It changed my life and also allowed us to reconcile our relationship.
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It takes something to share all the experiences in your life like you do @wwf. To admit to everyone about the problems of your past, and that because of your strength and persistence and the spiritual transformation you've clearly made, you are able to share with the world that you have changed all of that, and are of a sound resolve between you and your wife in regards to finances. You have certainly come a long ways, I can see that, even for the brief few days of encounter.
I do enjoy reading your posts.
I can learn a lot from you. Thank you, WhiteWalkingFeather
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Thank you for those kind words. I know that my life purpose is to help people learn how to have healthy relationships ... all relationships. That is why I write the way I do. I am grateful that people like yourself appreciate and value the effort that I put into my work and writing. I value when people share just as you did. Thank you.
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I couldn't possibly type as fast as the emotions come to my head to get them out on to this comment, when reading your posts. I feel i can relate to a lot of things, and react to a lot of what you write about, in this post and others. Thanks again. I will keep following!
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Wow. The old you that you described was quite abusive. I admire you for sharing such details.
I believe that money is only quite important until you have enough for things like food, water, necessary medications, modest but decent clothes, modest but decent home, basic bills, and basic hobbies. Anything above that is good to have but shouldn't be a priority.
I'm very looking forward to the next iterations of "He Said / She Said", the idea is superb and I can tell that you guys have a lot to share.
Cheers!
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Yes, I was very abusive. Not physically but emotionally and mentally I was a master abuser. I've done a lot of work over the years to change my ways and it was not an easy journey. For us, because we returned to the land, we are finding that the need for money keeps getting less and less. It is a good tool to identify where our dependencies are. Because of this experience we recognize that a healthy relationship requires that we be independent. This is what prompted us to move off grid as we reconciled our relationship with each other, we found out that our relationship with the state and corporations were abusive too. So it helped open our eyes to ALL our relationships, not just between the two of us.
I'm looking forward to the next one as we both had a lot of fun doing this. Peace to you.
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Thank you so much for sharing this post @wwf. It takes a lot to be vulnerable and share yourself with the world like this. It also takes a lot of courage and integrity.
I have been on a journey of healing myself over the years. Money was never what I struggled with. But, I did have control issues in other areas. It was mostly related to insecurities that had been shaped by physical, verbal and sexual abuse as a child. It made it very difficult for me to be in relationships long-term. I usually sabotaged them all. In 2014 I started going through my deep personal processing and have healed so much. I am now allowing myself to be seen, transparent and vulnerable. I am able to be in loving relationships now as well.
Thank you for showing up and gifting us with this soulful post. I am really happy to hear that you and your partner were able to return to one another and heal your wounds together. Bravo!
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Thank you @innerstellar! I am so glad that you found the courage and strength to do your own healing. You can relate deeply to the process I went through and I am glad that you took the time to share part of your story here with us. It does indeed help significantly to do the healing so that we can hold the space of what a true loving, respectful relationship looks like. I am grateful that you found value in our sharing and may the sharing we both are doing influence others to do the same. Peace to you and Bravo for taking the time to write, share and be vulnerable as well.
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Hey White Walking Feather!
Man, it seriously takes a lot of guts to admit how the "old you" would behave... and it certainly requires hindsight.
I have a high IQ as well and can see some flaws with my behaviors as well... I'm steadilly improving, still a long way to go...
Regardless, I'm gonna take a look at her blog now and see her side.
Cheers
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Hi Max. I'm glad you wrote and shared your own struggles. It is not easy and the fact that you are aware of the issues is half the battle. I was so unconscious through the majority of my life, it is no wonder that it took a major life crises to wake me up. Hang in there my friend. Lots of us around that can do this walking side by side. That is why I share so openly about my journey. I'm very glad that you wrote and shared. I feel honoured and I do appreciate it very much. May Creator bless you we gentle lessons and I pray that you don't have to go through what I did to work through it all! <3
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Congratulations both of you, this obviously has soooooo much work and healing behind it. A simultaneous statement like this is a great declaration of trust and comittment. I think new paradigm relationships are those containing elements of openness, honesty and independence that you two clearly aspire to, and also seem to embody.
I'll only post this once, but I wish you well twice :)
Namaste
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Thank you @barge. I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. It was indeed a lot of work and healing. We hope that our experiences over the last 30 years can serve others who are interested in doing similar work in their lives and their relationships. We actually had a lot of fun writing this morning. It was very interesting to see just how differently we see things but the two different blogs fit so well together.
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Thank you @barge. It was quite a bit of work to do all the healing and figuring out where each of us stands in the relationship. I think that we were quite fortunate that we loved each other enough to see the changes and come back together.
Thanks for wishing us well. I wish you well too.
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If the money was a goal .... you have a lot of problems and selfishness.
But If the money is just a tool.... that makes it unimportant...
I'm still at the beginning of my married life. 4 years...
But we didn't disagree about the money... because we believe that money is a tool and not a goal Thank you, brother.@wwf
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You are very welcome. Yes, it is only a tool and that is something I did not realize early on in my life. I saw it as something to acquire. It was my end goal and that caused all kinds of problems for me. I'm glad that you see it as a tool only. That is a good part of the problem. Peace to you brother.
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I feel like money is an issue that sadly gets in the way of many relationships. It can be trying when your broke, but honestly overcoming that adversary together makes a relationship stronger!
Me and @offgridninja talk things out when things get stressed. We both know our money is going to the same place so we don't get bothered by it much (it goes to our bellies and our enjoyment haha), though sometimes the issue arrises. We gotta just talk it out and have faith that we will be provided for.
One thing that being on the streets and having nothing has taught both of us is that there is always a way if there is a will. If we are starving or need gas to get home, someone is willing to help out there if you just ask, there are free meals if you know where to look, and there is always an opportunity for wealth! We have faith, even when desperate. The challenge of scarcity is really fufilling to overcome with faith and adaptibility!
Thank you @wwf for sharing so honestly your experiences. It helps people look within at themselves and probably gives courage to some to be honest with themselves as you have! Its particularily refreshing, I hope that conversations like these become easier and easier for many people to have :)
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You are right. We found surrendering to Creator means that we are now open to the opportunities when they are presented. I agree, I find there is always a place to eat, find shelter, etc. People want to help and will when asked. I too have been homeless, but only slept in the back of my car a few nights before I found a place to live. However, it was a sobering experience. I did not realize you were on the streets at one time too. Thank you for sharing that. I really do appreciate it. May Creator continue to bless you my friend.
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Honestly it was totally my choice to sleep outside and have those struggles. I have family that would help me if I asked but at that point in time I was being a rebellious teenager and wanted to get away. I have many many friends who are homeless/have been homeless, and got to see first hand and up close the life of addicts and the homeless and the street kids.
It honestly was a lovely experience, as strange as that sounds. Sleeping on the pavement and having little is one of the most valuable experiences of my life, and there are many interesting people to meet. Honestly it isnt that uncomftorable at all here in the summertime to do so, many people choose to do so. Maybe me and Ryan should write on that haha. The streets of downtown Kelowna are like my second habitat haha. I think it made me more resilient and able to live in the woods like I do now.
I have grown because of that experience, and have faith and know that I can always get by no matter what too. May you be ever blessed as well <3
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This has been an interesting journey seeing both prospectives. My husband and I started talking about finances long before we married. This cleared the way for fewer arguments. Your relationship was always paramount. We needed to stand together. With in-laws and outlaws like we had, we wouldn't have survived if we didn't unite.
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That is wonderful that you had the insight to have those discussions before making such a huge commitment to one another. I was a very lost, naive and hurting young man, completely dependent and lost. It took a lot for me to heal and find may way through all of that. I'm glad that you had the wisdom to see the help all around you to guide you through the rough times. Wonderful!
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Thank you, @wwf! We didn't do everything exactly right, but enough that we were together 40 years!
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It is impossible to do everything exactly right. We have made lots of mistakes too, even now. But the journey has been worth the effort. Bravo to you for 40 years. That is a major achievement.
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I've been on Steemit from a few weeks and I'm discovering a lot of things, human facts, lives, travel stories and some really touching stories like yours. Thanks for share.
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You are very welcome. Welcome to Steemit!
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This reminds me a little bit of I love lucy. It seems Ricky always wanted to have control over Lucy since he was the man and the breadwinner. It's difficult to shift out of a patriarchal habit that was taught to us, especially when it's still accepted as a cultural norm, even when it comes with bad implications.
Thank you for sharing an honest account of who you were and how you acted and why. The fact that you can share this so openly is a testament to how much you have grown. Even if you change your actions for the better you can still hold resentment to your past self and not want to share that with others so that you don't have to face your own judgement. It appears you have come to peace with your past self and giving yourself love despite the harm you caused yourself and others. I am sure it took a lot of effort, struggle and patience to get this far.. nice going @wwf!
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Indeed it has been a tough, long, hard struggle, but I am now at peace with myself and able to share. Bravo for seeing that. Not many people are able to point that out. I would only make one correction to what you said in that the patriarch would never engage in actions like that. A violent, coercive and abusive individual does. I'm not sure why society associates violence, control and abuse to a patriarch when in fact a patriarch is protective, kind, gentle, protective and nurturing. A patriarch recognizes that his equal partner is the matriarch and they must find a way to balance between the two so that they can govern together. When the matriarch and patriarch find that balance, they become a powerhouse that nobody can stop. There is no violence or coercion between them. Instead it is a symphony and the world shakes as a result.
Peace to you. Again, thank you for writing. Great insight.
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Thanks for correcting me @wwf :) I realize now I've been using a stereotype for a culture that promotes violence, aggression and control. Good point that a patriarch doesn't have to be that way!
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You are very welcome. <3
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There is a beautiful story, old words just make us shy but laugh very little, we have made our present about the old story, trying to find out how it was before, trying to find out how well and how good it is to be, we are happy to have happiness. , We have to accept everything, we will always be good.
thanks for share your story
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Thank you @wwf to share with us your marriage problems caused by money issues and how you sort out of there. I see myself there Im living now this reality. I have a dificult relationship with my wife and gess what is the origin. Yes its money. She works and I have my own business but the question is how spend. I prefer invest in stocks here in Brasil and trade same profits in cryptos, she like more spend in superfluous things like perfums, and other woman staff.
Its time to change something I need peace in my mind.
thanks again
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I pray that you not 'blame' her but rather take responsibility for yourself and work through why the money is such a barrier to the relationship. Please talk to people and work through this first before you make any big decisions. Forgiveness is a powerful tool within our relationships. I pray you find peace, freedom, prosperity, joy and love.
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Hey @wwf
Happy to know you both are together now and I am sure you are going to stay together for forever.
It's always better to get second perspective and your wife is adding that. Everyone doesn't have wise wife though 😉
What would you suggest to women who have full financial control (over men)?
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Thank you @asolopreneur. I am glad you enjoyed the post, both sides of it. I am not a therapist nor can I provide legal or financial advice. What I can say though is that my wife and I spent a lot of talking to come to terms with how we were going to integrate our independent lives together. Independence is critical if we want to start working towards building an inter-independent relationship. We did not want any dependencies as it would jeopardize that goal that we have. If somebody within the relationship is dependent, then I think there is a problem and it needs to be resolved peacefully. But that is only my opinion. I urge you to find assistance if you are struggling with your relationship.
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