“I NEVER KNEW YOU”…but, but….It is almost impossible to wrap one’s head around how something so pervasive, so widely accepted, most of the time without doubt or second thought can be so obviously damnable as the doctrine of the trinity that it can only be 2Thess 2:11”mocking” the wicked to their face.(1Kings 22:19-35…… YES JESUS DID SPECIFICALLY CLAIM TO BE GOD …..The problem is that even most Christians either do not know or do not care what GOD said about HIMSELF
Mark 12:28…Which is the first commandment of all? 29. And Jesus answered him, THE FIRST OF ALL THE COMMANDMENTS IS, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God IS ONE Lord: 30. And ………..this is the first commandment….. 31. And the second is…..
If you can’t get this “first of all commandments” right, all the rest of your “faith” is moot……
(1) God uses specific words that demand ONLY ONE PERSON
(2) God uses specific descriptions that demand ONLY ONE PERSON
(3) GOD specifically uses what some call a heresy namely modalism to describe father and son (The very image made in His own image to define them!?)
(4) Jesus specifically claims to be the father and the father specifically claims to be the son et al
(5) Man is made in the image of God and it is that image that God specifically describes himself and father and son a man can be a father and son but God can be his own son ….. because what makes and defines a father and what makes defines a son has NOTHING TO DO with how many different persons are present!?!?
God Only and specifically claims to be only ONE PERSON......but, ah i remember how this game is played... "God is three in one" (or 1in 3 or 3in one et al) should have given you a hint, harking back to Satan in The garden...God said you will die...Satan comes along and states no you will be more WISE......today .God said He is one; but Satan's children come along and say no three is more WISE and humble in the face of God’s grandeur only “a mystery” that can be understood “in faith”. God uses head and right arm to explain the distinctions between father and son.. However, the Trinitarian heretics say to the effect: "NO, that is just a figure of speech, or that is not what God really means. What God is really saying is that God is three different persons". Fools, hypocrites and blind guides, God said he was One and by your traditions and vain imaginations have taken the words of God and made them of no effect, refashioning God into your image! The worship of different persons who are each God with different degrees/amounts of god knowledge, god power and god authority that authorize and send each other around on different missions is the practice of polytheistic pagans who worship their gods, NOT Christians. Simply calling all of your different gods, “God” does not change the fact that you are worshiping multiple different god persons. Claiming that worship of three different persons is the worship of only one deity is not just a contradiction in scripture and terms but just as ridiculous as taking a ford pickup truck and replacing the hood (and all other emblems) ornament(s) with a Mercedes-Benz emblem on it then trying to pass it off as a Mercedes sedan!?!
WHO IS THE HOLY SPIRIT? Pgs 72-81
John 14:9. Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?......The "oneness" between Christ and the father is not comparable to a man and his wife, for only a fool would say "When you have seen me you have seen my wife, how sayest thou then, Shew us your wife?"
.................. 10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?.... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, THAT WILL I DO, THAT THE FATHER MAY BE GLORIFIED in the Son. 14. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I WILL DO IT. …………..
NOW WE GET TO THE HOLY SPIRIT:
…………..17. Even THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH; (Jn 14:6 I AM the way, THE TRUTH,) whom the world cannot receive, .. for HE DEWLLETH WITH YOU, (present tense/standing next to them in the flesh) and SHALL BE IN YOU... (future tense “In them”) 18. I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU (future tense “In them”) Note: The spirit of Christ is the sprit of God and the holy spirit that is why Christ said “I will come to you” (to comfort them, because Christ is the comforter). The spirit was standing next to them in flesh... ....latter it would come to them to be inside of them (inside of their flesh as the spirit we are given).....that is why. he would send the spirit...... However, Jesus himself here makes the point that the same person who was the HOLY SPIRIT that would come was standing next to them but lets them know “I will come to you again to be Inside of you” The present condition was external to them but in the flesh dwelling with them but, the future condition would be internal to them .. Rom 8:9 When you “see” or “pray” to the father (in the name of the father covered further in Ch 7) you are “seeing” and praying to Jesus and visa versa and Jesus will be the one to “come” and answer because father and son are just different parts/manifestations of the same person!?
Eph 4:4. There is one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5. ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, 6. ONE GOD AND FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1Peter 1:10. Of which salvation THE PROPHETS have inquired and searched diligently, WHO PROPHESIED of the grace that should come unto you:11. Searching what, or what manner of time THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHICH WAS IN THEM, when IT TESTIFIED beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow………
2Peter 1:21. For THE PROPHECY CAME not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as THEY WERE MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST.
Col 1:27. … THIS MYSTERY among the Gentiles; WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory: ….
…… it is the fact that men not scriptures feel the need to come along and explain how one really means three. The root issue is not about God or the scriptures at all. The issue is about men's lack of faith in what God said about himself in the first place and then make their appeals to false humility and God's grandeur while denying the very name of the very God they say they love. (2Pter 2:1-3)
Marcellus of Ancyra (fourth-century AD) said that the idea of the Godhead as three hypostases (hidden spiritual realities) came from Plato through the teachings of Valentinus, (c.100 - c.160) Valentinus taught that God is three hypostases and three prosopa (persons) each of the three persons being 1. the Father, 2. the Son and 3. the Holy Spirit:
"Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs, which has corrupted the Church of God ... These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have filched this from Hermes and Plato." Source: Marcellus, in Logan 2000:95/ AHB Logan: Marcellus of Ancyra (died c. 374AD) (Pseudo-Anthimus), On the Holy Church: Text, Translation and Commentary. Verses 8-9. Journal of Theological Studies, NS, Volume 51, Pt. 1, April 2000, p.95.
“All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ “ (Aristotle, Fourth Century B.C. quote taken from: Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197-198)
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It would appear that the difference between your view and the Trinitarian view all hinges on the use of the "person" metaphor. We all agree that Jesus was God in the Flesh and the Holy Spirit is referenced numerous places as the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.
So nobody is disagreeing on anything here except whether the use of "person" is appropriate when attempting to understand the nature of God. That One God manifests Himself to us in a way where communication seems to take place between "instances?" that can simultaneously act in ways that we would naturally (through a glass darkly) think of as "persons." Consider corporate law where several "persons" can act as one "person" in infinite recursion. "Person" is not so narrow a term as to become heresy when applied to the One God in three ways.
So, we might do well to have a conversation about what is the best working model, metaphor or English words to describe how God interacts with us and Himself as "instances" of Himself that are able to say things like "the Father is greater than I" and "I do what I see my Father doing" and "I have prayed to the Father."
But this does not merit cries of "heretic!" or "damnable infidel!" or "thou fool!". Indeed, Jesus used no such harsh language with His disciples when they were wrestling with understanding Who He Is. I'm reminded of Paul's admonition in Romans 14 not to tear apart Christ's church over "disputable matters". People who attempt to describe God as acting like He is simultaneously three persons might be likened as "weak brothers" while you who may have crafted a slightly better description of this mystery might charitably qualify as a "strong brother". That does not justify bitter name calling.
"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth . Yea, he shall be holden up : for God is able to make him stand."
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