RE: Jesus Christ Never Claimed That He Is God, Instead It Is Mentioned In Several Places Of Bible To Worship Only ONE God! And Why Muslims Are TRUE CHRISTIANS?

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Jesus Christ Never Claimed That He Is God, Instead It Is Mentioned In Several Places Of Bible To Worship Only ONE God! And Why Muslims Are TRUE CHRISTIANS?

in religion •  8 years ago  (edited)

Thanks for bringing all this up. I'll try to answer you point by point.

Christians believe that Jesus is God because it says so throughout the Bible both Old and New Testaments. I'll just pick a few examples:

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.… Isaiah 9:6-7

Thomas worshiped Jesus and called Him "My Lord and My God" and Jesus did not rebuke him:

Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen, and yet have believed.” John 20:27-29

Jesus discussion with Philip is also very revealing.

If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now you do know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.” Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?… John 14:7-9

And finally, Jesus last commandment, the Great Commission, shows that there is a single Name for one God who is known in three Persons:

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:16-20

I recognize the Muhammad called this concept of the Holy Trinity "Shirk" as something bad, but there it is clearly taught everywhere in the Bible. Jesus is God wrapped in human flesh. He is not one of the Prophets. He is far greater than them. The whole book of Hebrews is a dissertation on all the ways He is greater than them.

On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.… Hebrews 1:1-3

One God in Three Persons. Hard to understand but profoundly true.

John calls Jesus the "Logos" - The Word of God:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it... ...The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God... ...14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Now, as for wine. Drunkenness is forbidden but the use of wine was common. Jesus used it at the Last Supper to establish one of the two great Sacraments of Christianity:

Then He took the cup, gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until the day when I drink it anew with you in My Father’s kingdom.” Matthew 26:28

Of course in His very first miracle he converted water into wine at a wedding where the guests had already consumed the entire available supply.

Concerning ham sandwiches. It is true that Jewish law prohibits eating swine flesh. However, this law was specifically applied only to Jews and not to gentiles. This was confirmed in a vision that Peter had where God released Christians from that prior restriction:

About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” Acts 10:9-16

At the Jerusalem Council, all the Apostles got together - including their newest member Paul - and discussed what laws should apply to non-Jewish people:

The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. When they finished, James spoke up. "Brothers," he said, "listen to me. Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written: " 'After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these things'— things known from long ago. "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." Acts 15

They did not require gentiles to follow the entire Jewish law.

Finally, Paul confirms this in his letter to the Romans:

Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Romans 14:1-4

LIke you, I could go on like this forever, but this is also getting long.

The key point is that true Biblical Christians do obey the Bible but they study ALL of it and don't take single verses out of context. The Old Testament Law was fulfilled by Jesus who taught his followers the more mature commandment - to follow the key Principles behind the Law:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” Matthew 22:36-40

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If I may reply to your first 5 points.

  1. men were called gods in the bible so Jesus being called a god isn't unusual. John 10:34,35 he called the representives of God, gods quoting Psalms 82:1.
  2. we can see the father because again Jesus was a representative of God and he did it perfectly. It's like a son who acts exactly like his father, I've actually heard people say if you've seen his son you seen him.
  3. to do obeisance (as your translation says worship Greek: Pro•sky•ne'o) wasn't actual worship. There are accounts in the bible where this was done to men. This was simply kneeling before someone for respect. (Matthew 18:26; ) Matthew 2:11 the astrologers did obeisance to Jesus though not viewing him any more than just a king Matthew 2:2.
    In Hebrew Hish•ya•chawah' links closely with the Greek word used above. Here are Hebrew Scriptures of imperfect men bowing down to men or angels obviously not God. (Genesis 18:2 ; 1 Samuel 24:8 ; 2 Samuel 24:20 ; Psalms 45:11) and there are more if you like.
    Just after that in Vs 18 he says authority was "given" to him. So he didn't have it to start with. How can God not have authority? Obviously not God.
  4. notice the words "by" and "through" this shows Jesus was a proxie not God himself
  5. this is a translation error. Should be word was "a god" the Greek word for God is Theon but notice the Greek here is "theos en o logos" so it's theos not Theon word was a god. The Greek word o is an article in Greek that can be definitive or not so noticing the writers change in word from God (Theon) to theos (Devine) he must be using the a instead of the.

No, its not a translation error.

Jesus is a different Person than the Father. They can relate. But they are both One God (with the Holy Spirit) with one Name in which we are commanded to be baptised.

Jesus also said, "Before Abraham was, I AM" using the same language that He used in the burning bush with Moses. When he said that, the Jewish leaders picked up stones to throw at Him indicating that they knew very well that he was claiming to be God:

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Look up the creed of Nicaea. Here is the thing Stan. The origins of the trinity go all the way back to Babylon. They had many trinities. The Israelites on the other hand said at Deuteronomy 6:4 "Listen, Israel: our God is Jehovah; Jehovah is one;" (Byington) this is the bible's teaching. Following the origins of the trinity it went to medo-Persia to Egypt to Greece the to Rome.
Finally Roman Emporor Constantine gathered in 325 A.D. With

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

What Constantine gathered to publish in the first 50 "official" volumes were merely what the several hundred Christian "bishops" had been using for over 200 years. He got them together and they agreed on which books could be traced back to the original people who knew Jesus.
Christians do not deny Deuteronomy 6:4. They understand that one God interacts in three persons.

Jesus final words were,

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

I see you use a lot of scripture quotes from the source known as the Bible, do you have faith that the Bible is correct? What do you think of Matthew 28:19; how about Luke 24:47(should we forgive people for acting homosexual?); Acts 1:8(The book of Acts in general would be unacceptable to any follower of Muhammad... would it not?); Acts 2:38; Hebrews 9:8; 1st Corinthians 6:19; 2nd Corinthians 6:6 ?

Absolutely. If the Bible is not correct, I know nothing. Even if there were errors I could not spot them. There is no other source with better credentials able to correct one jot or tittle. So I go with the best I've got. And since that's all anyone can do, I presume that God has made sure that it was preserved for my use. Else, how could He hold me accountable for anything?

The Bible itself as found in the Dead Sea Scrolls written 900 years before Muhammad contradicts what Muhammad taught like a mirror image. So, no I would not expect the content of the Dead Sea Scrolls to be acceptable to anyone who has been taught Muhammad's inverted version (where he substituted descendants of Ishmael and Esau for descendants of Isaac and Jacob everywhere and were he lowered the Lord Jesus Christ to be a mere second place prophet after himself)

Matthew 28:19 " Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," Yep - Here we find the three persons of the Trinity mentioned together just like they were when Jesus was baptized Himself.

Luke 24:47 "and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem." Yes we should forgive homosexual acts just like heterosexual fornication. But they are both still acts that require forgiveness.

Acts 1:8 "Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language?" Yes, this ability to understand each other was a gift of the Holy Spirit and a sign to those present.

Acts 2:38 :"Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Hebrews 9:8 "The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning.:

1 Cor 6:19 "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;"

2 Cor 6:6 "in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love"

Ok, so the rest of your references are to passages about the Holy Spirit. I don't know where you are going with this. There are many passages where the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit appear individually and in various combinations. They are three persons. They are one God.

Just about homosexuals 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 says they will not inherit the kingdom, yet he says "this is what some of you WERE" so the point is forgiveness comes after change. Anyone can be forgiven even a homosexual as long as they change.

That's a lie he did not tell his disciples to go to all nation and preach the bible, unless ur this proofs, the lies made against him and this is why the bible is contaminated, did jeusu say from his own mouth, I was only send to my people the children of Isreal? Who were the children of Isreal is the hole nation the children of Isreal?
And this proofs he is not God, e.g I was send only to my people, children of Isreal, who were waiting for a prophet, when he came they denied him has always, the point is he was not crucified to save the holy mankind with his blood, because he was not sent to be the savior of the holmankind. He was only send to the children of Isreal. So do ur self a favor and stop contradicting ur selif and misleading others the hole bible contradicts it's self.

Read Jesus last words "The Great Commission" in Matthew - he said go make disciples of all nations.
Long before he died, he was saying "God so loved the world that he gave His Son.
This was always God's plan, but he had to give the Jews their promised chance. Most of them blew it. Then Jesus continued with his plan to send his disciples to the rest of the world.

All that ur doing is accusing, Jusus, (P.b.u.h) I challenge u to bring one evidence. Where Jusus himself said I am your lord the son and father you must worship me. Like I said before all of the chapter's u are talking about, is what someone else said, mathew said paul. said, john said, all of this is not evidence but accusation bring evidence, we he said I am your lord, or where he claims to be the fathers the sun and the holy guest, don't bring what other's said. And when was the bible written 1000 years after his death only 1% is Jusus saying or less in the bible, with red writeing.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Without those authors, we wouldn't know anything that Jesus said. Face it, they are his chosen servants to get educated by Him for three years and then go out and tell everybody about it. There is no difference between them paraphrasing or quoting Jesus. We must, and can, depend on them to give an accurate account of what Jesus said and did and how to understand it. The new quote I posted, "Before Abraham was, I AM" is conclusive, since he told Moses that those two words were the identity Moses should use to refer to him. "Tell them I AM has sent you."

The Bible was not written 1000 years later or how could Muhammad have referenced it? The New Testament was written by the apostles and their assistants 20 to 40 years after the events and while many of the people who saw those events were still alive to critique it. The Old Testament dates back, 400 to 2000 BC and did not change from 200 BC to present as proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Hi Stan,

Question: Was Jesus Liar? (I believe he is NOT) but would like to hear from you.

Of course not. Please proceed with your trap... :o)

Hi Stan, The post was meant for discussion and it is going cool. I'll reply to your post once I come back. You brought some important points.

This is the best comment of them all, worthy of it's own post. While one could spend lots of time talking about the unforgiving nature of Islam, or the fact it was founded long after the Christian church, or the process used to spread the "Word" it knows as "Truth".... I would like to add that the quote "No one is good--except God alone." was explicitly used to wake up this newcomer of the nature of who he was talking to. Essentially the same as "Why do you call me teacher, if I am 'good' as you say, than you should be calling be God?" But it may be more likely God was pointing out to the questioner that he used this title often to talk to mere mortals, and thus already guilty of disobedience to the first commandment.