I have been writing about the meteoric rise of the flat earth phenomenon, and my articles are an attempt to answer and rebut their often wild and crazy claims with easy to understand science. One of them is that they use an argument to incredulity to say that we can't live on a sphere because water is always level, and therefore it cannot curve to conform to the shape of the earth.
Image credit: it's a meme
They make this argument, frankly, to confirm their bias. But they claim to be making it because they 'trust their senses' and water LOOKS level, therefore it must be. And no 'evil freemasonry scientism' is going to tell them water can curve and stick to a ball when they can see that it can't with their own eyes! However, our senses are fallible, and we go over the The Misconception that We Can Trust Our Senses on that page.
Water Curves All the Time
It seems that the senses of flat earthers are worse than the rest of us, because most of us see not flat water quite frequently in the form of dew, waves, and the meniscus in a test tube, as just a few examples of curved water we can see with our own senses that they ignore. Perhaps they simply refuse to believe that it's the FORCES acting on water that shape it into the forms that we see, and that there is no inherent property of water or law of physics demanding water lie flat or level. Or perhaps they simply have worse perceptual abilties than the rest of us who can obviously see the waters here curving.
Image Credit: Pixabay
And in another article, we'll discuss how tides are curved water. Even flat earthers can't deny the existence of tides! However, in one way they are right. Water IS level. But they simply do not understand what that means. We'll show you why flat earthers are right (in a way) that water is level. Because water is (somewhat) level, they are admitting it, without understanding what they are saying, that we live on a sphere!
Denial and Circular Reasoning
Flat earthers not only believe the earth is flat, but they answer the age-old question of why no one falls off the edge through the invention of a 60,000 mile ice wall that encircles the entire planet. I've Debunked the Flat Earth Ice Wall, but in order to maintain their claim that the earth cannot be a sphere, they also reject the existence of gravity, and claim that the waters of the earth are held in by the 'container' of this giant ice wall and not because of gravity.
While it eludes them that life on a flat plane without gravity would be a very different world than we live on now, that is a topic for another day. In any case, they make an argument of incredulity combined with circular reasoning that since there is no gravity, and water always lies level because it looks level, then we cannot live on a spinning ball! Voila, two fallacies in one that allow them to confirm their bias!
Level is a Relative Term
One of the characteristics of flat earthers is that they simply do not understand the concept of fact checking. They repeat what they hear on YouTube videos and simply do not understand the concepts they are repeating. Case in point is the word 'level'. By demanding that water is level, they are actually admitting the earth is a sphere without knowing it! Let me explain.
Image Credit: mine
Most people are familiar with a hardware store level with the bubble in a bit of water. But when the bubble is in the middle and we say that something is level, what does that actually mean? Level is a relative term that must be level to something. It's not simply level to itself, and it's obviously not level to the roof or the wall or the floor, because you could put up a perfectly level picture in a house that is on a slope and the picture would not be level to the slope of the ground, but something else.
Image Credit: Pixabay
In the image above, the room is evenly spaced to all of the other components in the room. It LOOKS level to itself, and because of the slope you are on looking at it, the room actually looks perfectly normal and level to you as well. So, why does the guy have to stand sideways in a room that looks perfectly level from your perspective?
What is the Reference Point for a Level?
I hope I've made it clear that a level has to have a reference point. So, what is the reference point for 'level' on the earth? It is the center of the earth. The mass of the earth exerts a force pulling everything on the planet down towards the center off the mass. Since this force is measurable, we know that it's not exactly the same everywhere on earth, but from these measurements, scientists create a rough outline of the earth based on it's gravitational pull.
This rough outline of the surface of the earth that corresponds with the gravitational pull is called the 'geoid', and it's shown in the image above. Level is defined as being perpendicular to the direction of gravity on the geoid, just as altitude is a function of the height above this geoid (or more specifically the ellipsoid, which is very closely related to the geoid).
“The surface that is everywhere perpendicular to the direction of
gravity (an "equipotential surface") and that on average coincides
with mean sea level in the oceans is called the geoid.”
From Directional Drilling and Earth Curvature
Yes, it's Gravitay. Deal with it.
This is where flat earthers start jumping up and down, turning red in the face, and telling you that if you believe in gravity, then you must also believe in Santa and unicorns. They simply cannot understand (or choose not to so they can confirm their bias) that the pull of gravity towards the center of the earth is what makes things level. We already showed that water's ability to curve is simply dependent upon the forces that are acting upon it, and since gravity pulls everything towards the center of the earth, the concept of level means that water can and does curve and stick to a spinning ball.
Image credit: it's a meme
Gravity is the reason why a bubble in a level is not level to the ground, per se, but to the center of the earth. If this were not true, there would be no reference point for the bubble in the level. That is why the guy in the photo is standing crooked in a room that looks perfectly level. He's being pulled towards the center of the earth. That is why, when we fall, we fall towards the earth and not towards the mythical dome in the sky, or the elusive ice wall.
Original Image Credit: Pixabay
This is how you can stump a flat earther; just ask them why we fall towards the earth and not towards something else, and why it's harder to walk uphill than downhill. They will usually answer something like, "Because that is just how it works". But there has to be a REASON, some force, that explains why we fall towards the earth, and why the bubble in a level is not in the center if you are standing on a hill with the level parallel to the ground. The force that does this is gravity.
They will then tell you that you are spouting pseudoscience because science demand that things be OBSERVABLE and measurable. However, we can both measure gravity and observe the results of it just in the same way we cannot see magnetism or electricity, but we can measure them and see the effects of these phenomenon.
Flat earthers have no problem accepting magnetism and electricity as science. In fact, one of their alternate explanations for gravity is the unobservable force of magnetism! They have no problem accepting invisible forces proven to exist by science, they only have a problem accepting the invisible force called gravity because it's required for the ball earth to exist, and it's easier to simply deny gravity exists than to prove their own model; a model that is impossible in dozens of easily provable ways, and that has been scientifically falsified for over a thousand years.
Local Flatness
It still might be counterintuitive that something can be level on a sphere, but that is exactly how it works in reality. I discuss this in the article If We Live on a Sphere, Why Does the Earth Look So Flat?.
The take-away concept from that article is something called 'local flatness' where, when you are on a big enough sphere, such as the earth, each small section of that earth will seem flat. There is curvature, it's just too small for the human eye to detect. Even at altitudes as high as 100 miles, the curvature is so small that it's incredibly hard to detect without measuring the images of it carefully.
Image credit: It's a meme
This geoid is a universal reference point used by thousands of scientists around the world, and anyone can access the Raw Open Source Geoid Data. There are many studies, such as this one entitled Modelling the salar de Uyuni, Bolivia as an equipotential surface of Earth's gravity field, that use this geoid data for research. Check out the name of the study again, as it's worth rereading. An equipotential surface of the Earth's gravity field? It just means that the Uyuni salt flats are really really flat... relative to the geoid (Travel tip: they are also worth putting on your bucket list. I've been there and they are mind-blowing!).
Because this geoid data is open source, if you still do not believe this is the reality of our earth, you could download the files, download an app on your phone that detects gravity, and do 'rough' measurements of gravity yourself (the apps still have a larger error rate than more sophisticated measuring devices) to see if the NOAA measurements are in line with your own measurements. While the world might seem flat to our senses, it's simply not. And again, yes, water is (mostly) level... because we live on a sphere.
Thanks for your support. Please upvote, resteem, and comment to keep supporting sanity and reason to combat this insane flat earth phenomenon.
I can't believe in this day and age there are still flat earth theory supporters lol.
Anyway, great post :)
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have you seriously considered it?.....
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"all total bullshit"...lol well id never say that......science never knows certainty
.....this pathetic rant.your on is a angry man who has been lied to his hole.life....accept it and look at evidence
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I asked you to make your point, and then you edited your post to add a second video. Please make your point and not just do what flat earthers do and drop random memes or videos into every conversation without giving supporting statements and proof of claims.
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you claim that their claims are false.
i claim that i can test their claims while yours depend upon a third party.
i don't feel like the earth is moving, it seems the suns rays are to localized to be as far away as has been stated. the moon landing looks fake, iss video looks like augmented reality mixed with vomit comet footage.
there is no running video pointed back at the earth. read 'wag the moondoggie' ..
i don't think you have a point other than to keep driving home the same propaganda.
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i think there is plenty of evidence to warrant a discussion.
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seems to me there is much to question. peace.
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Gravity.
An object with mass has gravity and the gravitational force will attract things towards the object.
Earth has mass, therefore Earth has gravity. The mass of the Earth is greater than the mass of the oceans, therefore the oceans are attracted to the mass of the Earth.
Gravity is a weak force, and you have to be close to the mass before you will feel the effects of gravity. The Sun is very far away, as are the other planets, and the gravitational force from them is correspondingly weak. Earth is very close, therefore it has a stronger gravitational force. Thus the oceans are not attracted to any other planet or to the Sun.
But, the Moon is close, although not as close as the Earth, and the Moon has mass, although not as much as the Earth. The oceans are attracted to the Moon and do move towards the Moon, but because the Earth is closer and has more mass, the oceans do not escape from the Earth. This is why we have tides.
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gravity is an unproven theory. true story. we live in an electric universe. see nicola tesla for re-schooling.
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Electricity and magnetism were once viewed as separate independent forces until the discovery of electromagnetism which showed they operated in the same field of force, Einstein realised if he could prove gravity operated in this same field as electricity and magnetism then it would prove everything that exists is of this same field, it's interesting, I believe in the electric universe.
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Arguing with flat earthers (or creationists, and frequently they're the same people) is a waste of time - they have soundproof heads. But good luck with your endeavor. :-)
Me, I have seen the curvature of the earth for myself. It's easy enough if you have ever been out to sea on a boat: within a few kilometers, you can see tall buildings on the shore "sink" below the horizon. And this is always my answer to them: I have seen it myself, and observation always trumps any amount of theory or armchair philosophy.
I am nowadays more interested in the psychology behind such beliefs. I think that very often, it is not a matter of education. These people have some sort of deep-seated need to believe what they believe. Maybe they are longing for simpler times, or maybe it's something else. But you will not convince them even if you take them for a ride on a spaceship.
It is a good thing though to show all the more or less neutral observers how nutty their ideas are, so do keep up the good work! :-)
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They keep saying no pictures of round earth from space.
I keep asking for pictures of the edge of the earth.
Just my two STEEMS Worth.
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Ever set up a surveying total station on the shore of a beach and looked through it out at the horizon? There is a cross hair inside the total station with straight lines and when it is lined up with the horizon on its horizontal axis, you can see the curve in the horizon.
Also, in surveying there is a formula that is used to account for the curvature of the earth over a length of 1 mile based on what is being built so finish product elevations remain level.
I've personally experienced these things first hand, as I was a surveyor for 2 years in Daytona Beach, FL. So I know the earth is not flat. And even before then, I still didnt think it was... just thought itd be interesting to experiment, and see how what I thought, aligned with reality.
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Simple minds have simple solutions. The majority of claims made by flat earthers are so simply stupid, its obvious they missed high school science or were probably taught by creationists. But in a future that is only getting more technologically advanced, people like this will have trouble finding meaningful work or acceptance by society. They are the users of tech and not the creators of new things.
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Thank you for taking your time and writing this! I gave the FE theory its fair share of time (just like I do with any proposition), so far I'm not convinced.
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Earth isn't a perfect sphere though: link.
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TRue, but 'close enough' to call it a sphere on these kinds of articles. But I could add that in for clarity.
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Indeed. Was just adding to the wisdom.
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Very nice post @kerriknox ...Blessings
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Flat earthers believe there is a conspiracy covering up the nature of the earth. They argue that NASA is simply created to help keep the conspiracy alive. If this was the case, then the conspiracy would involve potentially millions of people across the globe. Conspiracies tend to fall apart the more people you involve. The Watergate scandal involved a few dozen people and couldn't be kept secret from the public. Secrets are generally really hard to keep from the public. There are constant stories of people leaking sensitive information to the press on a regular basis. Even some who know the consequences of revealing classified or sensitive information do it anyway. A great example is Edward Snowden revealing the NSA surveillance program. There is no way multiple governments could keep such a secret. Countries struggle with climate or trade agreements let alone keeping the flat earth a secret. It would require too much enforcement of too many people. Besides, if the earth was truly flat, why would this need to be kept a secret? Anyways, If you want to be entertained, I encourage you to watch you tuber - jeranism
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Thanks for the info. I'll take a look at RedsRhetoric channel.
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If you on a boat that rocks, then the level is that of the plane you are on of the wave. I was in Alaska last week where the tidal change is over 38 feet per day.
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Neil Degrasse Tyson says its an Oblate Spheroid and more pear shaped. So its not a ball either. I don't know what shape the earth is and for someone to claim for 100% fact that its one or the other is lying to themselves.
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You just proved my point that flat earthers cannot and will not fact check anything and have some sort of mental defect that does not allow them to stay on a particular topic on a post. Instead of, for instance, providing supporting evidence as to what makes people fall TOWARDS the Earth, you blurt out something irrelevant, on a tangent topic, that you do not provide supporting evidence for, and that you did not even bother to fact check!
Tell me, which one is the sphere, and which one is a an oblate spheroid the shape of the earth that Tyson described? Be specific, stay on the topic, and provide supporting evidence of your claims.
Stop repeating nonsense and start actually fact checking. You literally commented here with ONE COMMENT, one comment that would CONVINCE us all that you were RIGHT and 'no one knows' the shape of the earth, and what do you do? You repeat something erroneous that you could have fact checked in 2 minutes.
No one rational or intelligent would do such a ridiculous thing.
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even if you are right, your tone implies a panic, that if your facts where sound, would not be need.
truth shines out without help.
you sound like a salesman desperate to keep the attention away from the shiny new truth that you know is better than yours.
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Are all of the big science words too much for you? How many sources do you need? You post crap conspiracy bullshit and then say the real data is fake news or propoganda. What a corn gobbler. Its like arguing with cave men. Whats next an Alex Jones reference? If you want an intelligent debate then bring one instead of stupidly inferring about somones tone. That just proves your intelligence is as deep as my piss puddle.
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Love the pic from the Ames House, I felt vertigo when I was in one of those
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I thought that's what those illusion rooms were called, maybe I have it wrong. I went to the one in Wanaka in New Zealand http://www.puzzlingworld.co.nz/
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If you ever get a chance to go into one of those rooms, check it out, it's amazing how an illusion messes with your mind.
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great artice i like it keep it up
thanks for sharing
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Do people still believe in an impossi-ball spinning oblate pear-shaped spheroid in 2018? We live on a stationary level plane, so deal with it.
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Except... we don't. Declaring your fantasy true over and over just makes you delusional, it doesn't make your fantasy true. But go ahead and show us your model that comports with observable reality. It must include:
The fact that the sun sets due west of everyone on the equinox (I've personally witnessed this in both Scotland and Uruguay)
The fact that there is 17 hours of daylight in Ushuaia, Argentina in December (I'm personally experienced this also)
The fact that the stars rotated in opposite directions in the hemispheres (I'm also personally witnessed this)
That the sun sets in the SOUTHwest in the southern hemisphere (again, witnessed it)
and then when you produce this model, you can use it to not only explain, but predict lunar eclipses with stunning accuracy... until then, we'll just keep using the model that can explain all that... and predict, with stunning accuracy, everything that is predicted in observable reality.
The globe can model, explain, and predict observable reality. The flat earth has guys that call the globe 'impossiball' and a bunch of other cult sayings, and nothing else.
Soooo, lets see this model. I'll wait... Oh, you DO have a model right? Of course you don't. Because you have cult talking points and nothing else....
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There's some conspiracies out there that yes, do bear some serious consideration. The flat Earth thing though? Like you said... yeah... that horse be dead... but some people still no matter what continue to beat it. With facepalms, of course. In fact, there's nothing left of the horse anymore. But still. They will not relent.
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Round or flat it might be both, who really knows? We don't know what gravity is and we can't even prove the existence of matter.... we think we know it is there but we have never actually found any. We know diddly squat. I'm fairly sure we never went to the moon though
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@steemcleaners
Posting irrelevant, offtopic info, and link spamming.
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Why are you so ANGRY? It was relevant to the comment I had made previously and I thought you might find it an interesting video, sorry if I disturbed you. You can go back to sleep now.
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Well as I stated we actually know nothing when it gets right down to the nitty gritty, we can quite simply know nothing of reality until we know something of consciousness.
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all we have to go on is perception, and we don't know anything of what that is.
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How is this nihilistic? And what I mean is all we have to go on is perception and we have no means by which to measure that. It is highly plausible that the world is perceived as flat and as a globe and could in fact be concaved and warp and shift and bend any which way. While I don't think the earth is flat I do believe it could be a whole lot bigger than we are led to believe and that we are taught scientific theory in a dogmatic way as though they were fact, the universe outside of earth's orbit is out of bounds and anything regarding it scientifically is theory which cannot be reasonably backed up.
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This post has received a 3.66 % upvote from @buildawhale thanks to: @kerriknox. Send at least 0.50 SBD to @buildawhale with a post link in the memo field for a portion of the next vote.
To support our curation initiative, please vote on my owner, @themarkymark, as a Steem Witness
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Same, quite a good friend of mine is flat earth supporter, but it's probably due to drugs that he has became so weird. He is looking for conspiracies everywhere just to make his life a meaning.
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great post kerriknox!
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@kerriknox Earth is Flat. Leave the world. :D :D
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