Partial Solution To Self-Upvote Stampede

tabzjones (53) · 7 years ago

I have to agree. I've never understood it. But then, I'm not a particularly greedy person and I believe in quality over quantity. I've also been told I have way to many scruples for someone in the retail industry. LOL I will continue to upvote what interests me and what I feel might offer value to the community. I hope that my blog posts can do that for others. That's the way it should be.
Keep up the great post!♥

$18.64

9 votes

quantumdragon (41) · 7 years ago

i did upvote myself the first 3 days but now i cleaned everyvote so im happy of not being part of the list

NANOHASH BITCOINS ¿REAL?
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@quantumdragon/nanohash-bitcoins-real-1

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

that's good to hear.

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exavier (50) · 7 years ago

Exactly. We should upvote quality content what we like for multiple people and enjoy ourselves.

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altcointrends (46) · 7 years ago

Doesn't this go back to the argument the community should self regulate - Part of this regulation is through appropriate upvoting as well as having the right incentive mechanisms in place to motive more appropriate voting?

If people are incentivsed to upvote their own content - they will.

hoodrych (34) · 7 years ago

Her post is a call for regulation I think. There are checks and balances, everyone just has to do their part. Good point, though

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

Maybe not rules, but a social consequence to such actions. It's a way more powerful thing: ignoring.

weetreebonsai (54) · 7 years ago

It is also called starving the beast...

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dali.soh (50) · 7 years ago

I guess it's pretty hard for every newbie to resist the temptation of self-voting since there's "free money" at stake, albeit it's only just 0.01. Greed like any other human emotion is something innate and natural. Steemit will eventually turn into a giant prisoner's dilemma where the people who abuse the system will gain at the expense of those who follow the "rules." (If there are rules to begin with)

Unless there's a way to penalize abusers through a downvote button, Steemit will become a free-for-all where everyone tries to grab all the upvotes. Then again, in the whitepaper, Steemit is a proponent for a no censorship social media. I wonder if there will be true value creation on Steemit...

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cryptologyx (51) · 7 years ago

I see a few here that I could unfollow. As it's only going into my third week here I have much to learn yet.

I do spend most of my time reading from my feed, so much interesting content, and I have stopped upvoting my own comments in the first week.

Upvoting only interesting content and comments (as well as replies to my own) is a good way to gain followers. Show your appreciation regardless what your upvote is worth...and you will do well over the course of time.

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

you're getting the idea. When we first get our new powers, it's understandable that we might abuse them. But then, we have to look at the fundamentals: why was steemit created in the first place? Steemit was not created in order for people to self-upvote their own mindless comments. After we have come this realization, we can decide how to create meaning. And based on what we decide to do, we receive rewards, or we receive very little. Steemit is a game, a much deeper game than anyone realizes. By you making choices based on sound logic, you've just earned $20.....it really is that simple. The rules of the outside commodity-greed world don't really work so well in here.

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cryptologyx (51) · 7 years ago

~smiles~

I'm not a gamer, per se, I came here from Poloniex when I found that time consuming game seemed rigged for failure in the margin areas...I likened it to 5 level chess and don't regret the hours spent.

This game is so much more than Poloniex and less risk in the long run...or so I presume. Thank you for your generosity in making your point. I do believe it will be some time until I build my rep to better help others turn frustration and confusion into understanding and patience...I do the best I can with what I have to work with.

Heck, there are many here who have been longer at this game than I and it worries me that they don't take the time to learn the game...so much many helpful links such as this one.

Then again, there are no rules...other than the one unspoken truth. You reap what you sew.

Enjoy your day!

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weetreebonsai (54) · 7 years ago

It felt wrong from day 1 for me (the self pat on the back) it clashed with my cultural upbringing. Did I do it, yes, have I kept it up, NO, I have to live within who I am not to please the masses. I am here to help grow a community and that starts with me...I can change me..

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extrospect (59) · 7 years ago

It is not a dictatorship, "I don't like what your doing so no one should". Everyone is trying to be Steemit cops.

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6 votes

davidnx (53) · 7 years ago

Quite right!

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

every action you take has an equal reaction from others.

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troof (42) · 7 years ago

More than " Everyone is trying to be steemit cops" it's Everyone is trying to be steemit owners, and successful owners protects What they are investing: time, effort, reputation, money and survivance of all this pioneer amazing system, that will still give you a good income even if you are in bed for some reason or you got fired from a "normal job" because of your age in the future. You should have a deeper vision of this

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joanaltres (56) · 7 years ago

Definitely an important topic.

Resteeming this to 10,000+ followers.

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weetreebonsai (54) · 7 years ago

You are awesome!

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herroyal (37) · 7 years ago

I support this, bullshit is when u upvote ur own comment js to get sm $s!

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surfyogi (65) · 7 years ago

I disagree with self upvoting "SHUN LISTS" a great deal, and here is why.

First of all, do lists like this, REALLY ASSESS the quality of people's comments, they are upvoting for themselves?

Secondly, do they assess if the same up-voters are also spreading the love for others they are interacting with?

Thirdly, should the community be deciding these things as self-formed vigilante groups, or petitioning the developers of steemit, to change the self voting rules?

I could go on and on and on, but I think that pretty well sums up several of my ideas, and I will now self vote myself, as well as several others, that I liked that commented as well.

PS - please let me know if you plan to shun me, so I can be sure not to:

READ YOUR POSTS IN KIND
Upvote your posts
Comment critically on your posts
Thanks ;-)

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surfyogi (65) · 7 years ago

Yes, we have to look at:

Comments are 40% of payouts, Posts are xx%, etc. - does that need to change?
When I upvote my own comment; it goes higher in the sort order, I like that.. does that need to change?

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daxed (44) · 7 years ago

@liberosist posted what I think is an amazing solution.

ELI5 Version: You power up your vote by voting on other people. Then, if you want, you can use the big power vote for yourself. But at least you had to engage other posts on the platform to get there. (if I'm understanding his post correctly)

New system in link below:

https://steemit.com/steem/@liberosist/idea-rethinking-the-voting-power-system-for-a-better-steem-network

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

when i first joined steemit over a year ago, i spent a lot of time commenting and engaging with others. I did have a great advantage, though, because i was a writer.....i had a lot of material to post. But I got my reputation from this massive engagement with others. Without that, i would not be where i am today. this is a maturity issue, more than anything else.

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lucashunter (58) · 7 years ago

I think we can all agree that if someone continually upvotes their low-value inane comments, then they are abusing the system.

There are lots of people doing this and some even go to the level of buying whale votes for their shitty comment. It is crazy and will make people think Steemit is a spammy network.

This insanity has to stop before it affect our dear steem. STOP RAPING THE REWARD POOL PLEASE!

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greyman (38) · 7 years ago

I guess not everyone thinks this is a "problem" as several commenters have upvoted their own comments.

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hynet (55) · 7 years ago

Your on point. People have abuse their voting powers, this action of self up voting will destroy the system sooner or leter, those who write good content doesn't make money anymore because of self up voting, people cast their vote on their comments instead of the content written. I have two articles I just posted but only few upvote. But I spent days cracking my brain on what to write but at the end of the day I won't get reasonable up vote. If this madness continue, people will stop writing article and just up voting their comments. Your solution to this which is to unfollow such people is very okay . also they should reduce the reputation of such people to 10 or even block their account. I believed that the idea for this blogging is to encourage people to write good content and make money from it, in other to encourage them to write more. Nice article. Upvoted. Keep it coming.

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https://steemit.com/steemit/@ethical-ai/punishing-rabid-self-upvoting-of-comments

aggroed (78) · 7 years ago

Captains of the comment masterbation team.

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yoda1917 (55) · 7 years ago

That is an awesome article and I put some time into responding to that and ended up having a bit of fun hehe

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

can i post that list on my article?
I am really feeling disgust......

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aggroed (78) · 7 years ago (edited)

I think he'd feel flattered. just credit the image to @ethical-ai or that link. Also, since that article @crypto-p has publicly apologized and says he'll change voting behaior.

blunderbabe (50) · 7 years ago

Good point on @crypto-p. I believe some of these self made whales are totally clueless about how they are harming the community. They see this as a quick way to make a buck and don't understand (because they haven't taken time to learn) the dynamics.

Not all - I'm sure there's a lot of whales (and minnows who would do the same, if they had the opportunity) who know what they're doing and don't care. They definitely need to be schooled !

yoda1917 (55) · 7 years ago

Good comment. I believe the whales should earn. But destroying their habitat is not good for the or anyone. Upvoted.

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lesterblade (25) · 7 years ago

I guess crypto-p changed his mind as he upvoted his post today.

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solar (52) · 7 years ago

So is it inappropriate to flag these types of abuses (if they are decided to be abuses?). Or is it that there is always a fear of being flagged back for this sort of thing?

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aggroed (78) · 7 years ago

Don't flag war instigate imo

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cryptologyx (51) · 7 years ago

more than anything else here I feel that flag wars are something that will bring down the whole platform...nobody want's to come into a war zone...worse still is people flee them

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aggroed (78) · 7 years ago

Yeah. Some of it is pretty good though. You want the community to respond to abuse and not just let it happen. It's a touch business.

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cryptologyx (51) · 7 years ago (edited)

agreed, still there is a fear, at least for myself, that I'll become a target of these miscreants...I really don't have the time to deal with personal attacks and be myself here...touchy sitch indeed!

EDIT: This message will be deleted once replied to...paranoia...cheap destroya :-/

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

fear and paranoia is real. I know this too. You're doing well already by thinking and conveying what's actually going on.

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cryptologyx (51) · 7 years ago

hmmm looks like I can't delete now...probably better to leave it then

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

being a responsive community is essential. One look at Matt Trainer.....we know how well our steemit immune system worked: like magic!

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aggroed (78) · 7 years ago

That and info. Light is a great disinfectant. If we can publicly show abusers we can publicly stop abusers.

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blunderbabe (50) · 7 years ago (edited)

@solar If you're a minnow you'll lose the flag war. Unfortunately we can't do too much aside from alerting the whales who support us to abusive self upvoters. We can try to point it out in comments, and not follow those people - but in the scheme of things, we also depend on the whales who remember what it was like to be a minnow (maybe not on here, but in life !) to use their power to protect the community as a whole.

Basically - flagrant self upvotes from whales threatens the survival of Steemit as it drains the reward pool. So, it's in the interest of anyone who views this as a long term community, and not a casino, to call out the assholes :-)

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

getting in a flag war is not desirable.

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vm2904 (64) · 7 years ago (edited)

@stellabelle - I totally agree that selfvoting on inane and non-meaningful self posts adds no value to Steemit platform. I have noticed this trend increasing after HF19 as you have correctly pointed out. I am only about 20 days old on this platform but am trying to bring quality blogs with original content and meaningful comments. I hope other beginners do so too.

Thank you for the perspective on 'Steem'. I will try hard to add value and not just try to make Steemit a 'money wagon' !!

I love your term 'masturbatory shit-pool'. You mince no words! Well done!

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evanrvoss (67) · 7 years ago

Hahah I guess Im one of the worst...Don't start getting on people for self Upvoting. Everyone gets 10 votes a day and can decide what they wish to do with them. Im a college student that has put in my hard earned money into Steemit and has never taken out a single dollar! Can everyone that is upset with self upvoting say that? I doubt it beacuase they are the ones usually transfering to Poloniex and Bitrex.

Anyone can do what they want with their voting power...No one died and left someone in charge of STEEMIT? If we start doing this it will force investors like myself to not invest in Steem.

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daxed (44) · 7 years ago

If we start doing this it will force investors like myself to not invest in Steem.

And what happens when everyone on the platform is only voting themselves?

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

If only you realized you can earn so much more by extending your energies outwards..........you can do as you wish, and then we can do as we wish, mainly ignoring people who only self-vote. Not a great future....

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cryptokraze (72) · 7 years ago

This is my 2nd week and I am understanding the system better with each day. You have a solid point about self upvoting specially if whales start upvoting themselves then minnows will be isolated and demotivated. As there are many minnows who are trying to add good contents to community and should get some appreciation. I am now proud to be a part of minnowsupportproject and msp-lovebot.

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booster (68) · 7 years ago

This comment has received a 0.05 % upvote from @booster thanks to: @cryptokraze.

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cherryblossoms (51) · 7 years ago

What a post !

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financialcritic (57) · 7 years ago

Agree that this is bad behavior and we need to find a solution. I'm guilty of self voting comments sometimes, so not saying I'm above the behavior. Sometimes as a minnow, self voting is the only way to get your comment to the top and be seen on a busy post such as this one.

The second issue that also should be addressed is bot auto-voting for your posts/comments. Even if it's not you self-voting, if it's your significant other or bot, then it's the same thing.

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yuriks2000 (66) · 7 years ago

Hello @stellabelle! I am your long term follower and I found this post very useful and convincing. Selfupvoting is a major issueI and I would like to share your article with as much people as possible in our Steemit community. My native language is Russian and I want to translate it in to Russian and share it with Russian community. Can I use your post?

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yuriks2000 (66) · 7 years ago

Can I, please, translate your post @stellabelle and post it in my blog?

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thecryptofiend (74) · 7 years ago

Well said.

I've stopped up-voting most self up-voted comments - I think it is fine occasionally if you want to highlight your comment but if you just do it for a regular "Great post" type comment it seems a bit much.

It is even worse if you are spamming hundreds of identical "cut and paste" comments and up-voting all of them - that is just blatant profiteering and I don't see how it can be considered any other way.

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farmandadventure (56) · 7 years ago

And even worse than that, the posts will all be crap too. I go to the "new" page almost every day to try and find good content but its rare. So self-voting up a crap story is going to turn our steem ocean into a sewer.

rizatr (45) · 7 years ago

I guess it is normal.. if we think low, that's 10x 50$ a day.. there is no logical explanation to not give (at least the majority) to yourself.
I hate it, but that's how it works..

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

it is not normal and it is not why steemit was built.

rizatr (45) · 7 years ago

Like i said, i also dislike it, the normal thing is this: oh i get 50$ x every upvote i give to myself, why don't do it.
But the fact that steemit is community based and you have to share becomes irrelevant, as long as the cash flows and the power is possessed.

"START UNFOLLOWING AND DISENGAGING FROM PEOPLE WHO ABUSE SELF-VOTING."
That's why i agree on this quote 100%, although it is just a part of the solution.

trevor.george (67) · 7 years ago

You can upvote your own crappy comments?

Who knew?

So upvoting your own crappy comments is bad, can I still upvote my wonderfully awesome and excellent comments?

I have the best comments. My comments are just the most amazing comments you'll ever see.

My comments add soooo much value the people are practically begging me to comment on their posts. They do this by writing posts and publishing them so I can see them, so of course that means they want my superior commenting skills applied to their posts.

This is just one more example of the best in comments, perhaps even comment of the year.

So, should I upvote this or not?

Or should I save that upvote for @thecryptofiend, or @papa-pepper, or @karenb54, or @len.george, @edgarsart, or @dragosroua or one of the other awesome writers on Steemit

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yoda1917 (55) · 7 years ago

???

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ryan313 (57) · 7 years ago

Ok this makes sense to me ! I thank you for this ! I have read about this and was having trouble understanding this concept! So over self-upvoting is upvoting every stupid comment you make 100% upvote in order to JUST make $ ! This is understandable and as a newbie this I have been guilty of AT FIRST ! Then I started to read about voting power and self upvoting , and voting power in general! And greedy is not what I m here for so I'm working on a different upvoting strategy and want to continue to learn about WHAT IS THE CORRECT amount of self upvote is ETHICAL responsible 👍. Thanks again and I really don't think newbies understand these ethics I didn't!

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davebrewer (59) · 7 years ago

You've asked the good question. How much is too much, and who exactly decides on that value?

monopoly-man (46) · 7 years ago

When money is involved, an administrative - or social - solution is unlikely to succeed. Rather, an engineered solution would need to be implemented into the code.

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captainobviou3 (63) · 7 years ago

upvotes own comment lol

reddust (71) · 7 years ago

I don't like self-upvoting , I think it should be discontinued next hard-fork. However, with most of the coin owned by 1%, I don't understand why minnows or even dolphins voting for themselves makes much of a difference...all this sounds like rich people bitching about people eating out of their garbage cans.

I will change my mind if someone explains the math to me why this is a big deal.

farmandadventure (56) · 7 years ago

I think it will fill the comments sections with upvoted comments that should be at the bottom, such as follow to follow beggars, instead of the comments that should be at the top that actually add value to the post and conversation.

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reddust (71) · 7 years ago

I totally ignore serial follow for follow unless...the person is genuine...I An not ridged on my rules. I don't want someone telling me how to weild my sp after I've gone through beta crap a new site generates. I think those with a lot of sp are feeling the power of their positions ...😏

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https://steemit.com/bullybot/@davidnx/feel-free-to-upvote-yourself-here-bullybot-project

davidnx (53) · 7 years ago (edited)

I totally agree with your point of view.

On the other hand, though, I suppose they can follow/unfollow who they like. It's when they try to force people to do things their way that bothers me. If it makes its way into the web interface or a new hard-fork, fair enough.

People can upvote their own comments on my posts all they want. Indeed, I wrote a post today inviting them to do so...

No one's bothered to do so though, apart from me. :)

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reddust (71) · 7 years ago (edited)

I just mute or ignore, I give a large vote to anyone who makes a full comment on my post that is a full sentence. I'll take a look at your article @davidnx. I don't vote on my comments but when beginning Steemit everyone was told to upvote their articles and after the couple last hardforks up vote their comments too...😏

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freedomnation (57) · 7 years ago

@stellabelle that's what I am talking about. This community needs more awareness because these sorts of things are luring new users away from Steemit. Just because some people bought cheap SP doesn't mean they deserve to abuse it now in upvoting their own coments and posts.

I've seen couple of people who do postlings recently upvoting for 40€ themselves + those people who want to earn on curations.

If this trend continues we will have only a couple of good users the rest will just upvote themselves. Next HF should fix the amount and limit self upvotes.

alex-nj (43) · 7 years ago (edited)

I do not think it is immoral, it just should not be a part of the system. If you give me 10 $200 upvotes I have 0 incentive to not give them to myself. THen it truly becomes the pyramid scheme a lot of people make it up to be. I think self voting should be forbidden by the new hardfork as the truth is CONTENT DOES NOT MATTER anymore.

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thedevilape (45) · 7 years ago

I think we should set limits based on your steem power. for example if you have up to 10k steem power you can no longer up-vote your own comments or posts or atleast put a daily limit. If we remove up-voting yourself completely then the ones who would get hurt would be the minnows and dolphins. Not the whales.

lennstar (66) · 7 years ago

So a whale makes 100 accounts and let them autovote in the circle.
Bonus: He not only upvotes himself but also gets curation, yeah!

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thedevilape (45) · 7 years ago

Yes but newly made accounts can give you like what? 1 cent per up-vote 100 accs up-voting themselves will make like a dollar? so i don't get your point? I was talking about whales that abuse their up-votes by up-voting their comments without limits. That's why i said why not set limits based on your steem power? the more you have the less you can up-vote yourself.

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alex-nj (43) · 7 years ago

He can delegate all his steem power amongst the 100 accounts so it would be the same :)

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thedevilape (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

Oh... well i feel like a dumb-ass now... I guess i should read more about it before talking.

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lennstar (66) · 7 years ago

We live and learn...

thedevilape (45) · 7 years ago

Yes indeed.

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davebrewer (59) · 7 years ago

Dang. It would be good to be a whale.

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davebrewer (59) · 7 years ago

Hmmm, well intentioned perhaps, but not sure practical. Let's get out the pitchforks and go after the folks at the top of the heap. But the folks at the top of the heap built the heap, so ultimately not in anyone's interested to knock the heap down.

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solar (52) · 7 years ago

You think just for comments, or your own posts as well?

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alex-nj (43) · 7 years ago

What is the difference?

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solar (52) · 7 years ago

Well, maybe the network doesn't differentiate itself much, but using your SP to gain more visibility on a blog post on the network seems more valid to me than up voting every comment you make.

alex-nj (43) · 7 years ago

Sounds fair, at the same time I can still post 10 worthless coppied memes and upvote myself 10 times so I get all the money myself.

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lucashunter (58) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yeah that is true and a lot of people are involve in this business. Funny businesses on steemit these days.

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davidnx (53) · 7 years ago

"THen it truly becomes the pyramid scheme a lot of people make it up to be"

No, the opposite is true. I was going to write a post about it.
If you have to put money in (by paying for Steem Power), but this money can only go to those already here (because you have to grow your user base before you really start earning money) you end up with a hierarchy similar to that of a pyramid scheme.

One of things stopping it being a pyramid scheme is that you can upvote yourself if you want to - you have some say where the money goes.

Now, it may be argued that money does go to 'lower value' members, which is true, but the majority goes to those who have been here longer, and the more the invested the more successful they are likely to be.

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yoda1917 (55) · 7 years ago

I agree with this comment the most. If this function is taken away in the next HF then it is not a moral issue anymore. And when the greedy ones find the next loophole, we will deal with it then. Steemit is still in beta stage and it is awesome already. It will take time to evolve. Look at the difference between Facebook 1.0 compared to now.

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agsupun (45) · 7 years ago

I never upvote my comments. I never did. But yes I upvoted my posts because they are created with my time and effort and I want others to read them.

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gokulnk (63) · 7 years ago

The same logic could also be applied to comments as well. Sometime I write detailed comments which can actually be repurposed as posts. So I don't think it is an offence to upvote such comments.

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karenb54 (73) · 7 years ago

I saw one member who was voting every single one of his own comments with fill power giving himself $15 per comment, some where only one word reply's, I also found he was leaving comments on posts but not upvoting them, that's what made me go and check, I left a message didn't get a reply so didn't upvote his..

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solar (52) · 7 years ago

The masturbatory shit-pool as you call it is the biggest challenge for steemit to overcome. I would call these negative feedback loops, loops that perpetually sucks energy away from the network for the sake of an individual.

I think we need to find ways to limit self voting, but banning self voting will ultimately lead people to having puppet accounts (which cannot be avoided either way). It's definitely a hard problem.

@stellabelle I have an unrelated question. I'm not sure the best way to contact you so I apologize this is the wrong way. I'd like to chat with you, or have a brief exchange about a proposal i'd like to make to the network. I'd love some feedback on some ideas I have, and am preparing to set them in motion. I'm looking for support on ways to on ramp artists to the platform, and partner with local arts organizations. I'm looking to position my self as an advocate for artists on blockchain networks, and also promote these networks locally. If this is something you might have a moment to support in one way or another, i'd really appreciate it, let me know the best way to chat with you. I think it could be really good for artists and steemit.

stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

I am supporting so many things right now, my attention is spread very thin. I suggest you see how your idea is received on here, that's the first step.

solar (52) · 7 years ago

Do you know of any other big players that are focused on developing steemit as a platform for artists that i could talk to?

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aggroed (78) · 7 years ago

Lemme grab a post for this that shows the most flagrant autovorotic abusers.

stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

yes, i will add it.

lennstar (66) · 7 years ago

Vote your posts as if you vote others.

Problem are those who do not follow the golden rule. But I don't think they will stop if nobody reacts to them.

misterd21 (43) · 7 years ago

while i agree, to a degree... upvoting one's own comments is akin to masturbating into a sock for one's own self gratification.... not all members are created equally, nor do all members follow the nature of this quote: "When you join a mutual aid society by helping to support their members you join a community of people who will have your back when you need it the most. It is through mutual sharing of life’s unexpected and undeserved burdens that members of a society gain peace of mind.". with that said i can honestly see where a minnow, such as myself, would upvote their own comments. There are not nearly enough members who upvote others content as it is. Getting upvotes are crucial for a minnow to grow, and recieve an equitable reward for their upvotes. As a minnow i upvote my fairshare of content...yet my own content, some of which are pretty good content wise, get less than 5 upvotes, from fellow steemians and usually earn less than 1 SBD.... not to mention that with the increased ammount of content comming out due to HF19 placing a heavier reward on content than curation.. a minnows posts sink straight to the bottom. So.... unless a more equitable solution is had i forsee more and more minnows upvoting their comments simply to nibble on any rewards to be had.... minnows are starving for some affection... #minnowlivesmatter

rkaz (45) · 7 years ago

Actually I agree with you, so I think in the case of newcomers, low value accounts their posts are relatively unknown, how ever I think whales should support some bots such as @minnowbooster, so they could help even good content writing minnows so even they gain a good upvote power, which is beneficial for both minnows and whales.

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misterd21 (43) · 7 years ago

yes, that is a good idea.... however unless the whales search down far enough for the good content it is pointless. not to mention that it really isn't in their interest to upvote the minnows beyond their limited voting power.

josephd (53) · 7 years ago (edited)

I don't understand this phenomenon either.

I self upvote but my upvotes are worth practically nothing, and sometimes to improve visibility.

But for people who have earned/invested thousands of steem, rewards from self upvoting shouldn't mean much (because they already have so much) , instead to maximize the value of their investment , they could create /curate content and advertise. Self upboting is not even in their own self interest for the long term.

cerejobastos (41) · 7 years ago

well, it is up for anyone to choose what to do with their power, but I have to agree on this.
Why is it even possible to upvote own comments?

blackvapor (55) · 7 years ago

HF20?

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sols (54) · 7 years ago (edited)

I agree with you 100% but there is one other thing to the equation I feel we need to address as a community, the exploitation i think needs to be taken a step further than being ignored, I was thinking we need to somehow slowly enforce communal flagging to prevent those. like an Anti-Curie trail or the Steemcleaners to prevent them taking unfair amounts out of the reward pool just for being better off, though one could argue that a size-able investment legitimizes the right, I dunno now, but it does feel wrong for people to be able to exploit it the way it is, I fear ignoring it will not only make it worse, but it also gives smaller fish less of a fighting change

how many red fish to a mighty whale

I kinda go into greater detail here , especially about some of the stronger stances

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shawnfishbit (55) · 7 years ago

The imagery in this post lulllzzz . . but your points are valid. One of the coolest things about the blockchain is all the information is here, out in the open. I wonder if the most egregious offenders knew that something like this would happen?

To clarify, I do sometimes upvote my comments . . but ONLY if they are pretty relevant and I don't want it to get lost under 25 other comments. I do it sparingly. But my upvote isn't worth 5 or 10 bucks haha

But recently, I have had people comment under my posts with a short sentence and upvote it 100 percent (it seems), while in contrast, the upvote on my post was given a much smaller sliding percentage.

I mean, it's not against the rules. Is it tacky? Yep. Bringing this to the light is the only way to get it to lessen. Maybe since the hard fork, people just wanted to go on a massive self upvoting frenzy? I don't know . . I'll let you more experienced users keep discussing it . . but in the meantime . . capturing the behavior on GIF form :)

"Why would you do this?"

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sieses (65) · 7 years ago

When i started i upvoted every comment and replies, not just my own!
But now i know i must use my vote as best as i can on quality and people who make steemit a better place!!
But i wonder is the list of shame not a bit to harsh?
Unless they were warned a few times, did the people on the list knew? Or had they never tought about the negative side of this self upvoting?
Either way great artikel i have learned from this was not sure if it was ok, so i minimized self upvoting but after reading this it becomes more clear to me!!

ridi20 (50) · 7 years ago

yea I agree with that, but it will be kindy hard to stop these guys.

narcissistic people will exist everywhere sadly to say

they're like

naseerbhat (55) · 7 years ago

@stellabelle when i was new to steemit my abusive power was 100% because in start i read many posts that self voting is a legal thing ..and i kept voting my every comment and my every post for almost 10 starting days then it came to my mind that am using all my upvotes over my own posts and comments and am not upvoting other guys posts then how come will anybody upvote my post and from that day am against upvoting self comments and yes i too upvote my posts but not comments.. i upload 2-3 posts everyday that lets me to upvote 7 otherposts which are worth upvoting like this one ..
P.s shearing is caring
Follow me at @naseerbhat you are welcome

blackvapor (55) · 7 years ago

Thank you for taking the lead on this.
After HF19 I saw whales doing this and copied, but it felt greasy.
I have stopped, although it is only symbolic for me.
I truly want to promote the positive singularity and feel like steemit and the blockchain in general are the first baby steps to doing this. and you need to be careful with your babies!

Steem on

carry0n (55) · 7 years ago (edited)

Wow there even is a list of offenders, haha! And yea, I do agree, let us not forget the community aspect of steemit, upvoted!

abhilashrai (42) · 7 years ago

You are absolutely right that's why i see whether someone has self upvoted on comment or not if they have i too avoid upvoting them.

marcusorlyius (44) · 7 years ago

When people are posting nothing but shitty comments saying "I agree", "great post", etc, those comments compete with decent ones that actually have substance and therefore the decent comments get drowned out.

Should we be flagging such useless comments then since they don't contribute anything ?

bigfatmyths (41) · 7 years ago

Are we going to have a panel to discuss what comments are useless and which are worthy?
Next will be hatespeech and then we're the same as fakebook.
Censorship comes to steemit already eh?

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marcusorlyius (44) · 7 years ago

Do you need a panel to decide whether "great post" or "I agree" comments are useless? No, of course you don't. In cases like that it's blatantly obvious that they add nothing to the discussion that an upvote does not and it's those post and those posts only which I'm talking about.

No it won't be hate speech next or anything else. What a strawman! If you have sex with a adult, what next? Sex with children?

If people are simply posting "Great post" rather than using the upvote button then they clearly don't have anything to say or add to the discussion and are just making steem worse for everyone who is actually interested in using the platform. If someone has nothing to say, how can they be censored?

silviabeneforti (72) · 7 years ago

I totally agree! Selfvoting on own comments is really insane for the platform. After the HF19 the selfupvotes increasing (as the request of follow4follow or upvote4upvote) and I think it's a really a bad trend :(

gikitiki (60) · 7 years ago

Great post but ...

masturbatory shit-pool

Is it inground or aboveground?

altcointrends (46) · 7 years ago

What's wrong with simply changing the incentives to better incentive more appropriate action?

fayehalliday (56) · 7 years ago

Never knew the meaning of Steem before this! Everything you've mentioned here is exactly what drew me to the community when I first joined. The coming together part, NOT the "mastubatory nightmare" ;-) Luckily I've seen more examples of the former. Hoping the movement will maintain its "esteem" as the site continues to grow in popularity... Thank you for another great post!

ldauch (53) · 7 years ago

I agree with this post but also have to wonder why is this even possible in the first place? Is this what the devs wanted or is it just an unexpected side effect or carelessness? Thanks for bringing this up.

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

no, the devs did not want this, that is why the curve was exponential. Before HF19, my vote was worth $3, and this prevented the type of abuse we are now seeing. Dan knew that people would do this, but the community wanted this changed. it has good and bad consequences.

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bigfatmyths (41) · 7 years ago

I think this post is a bit mean spirited. I've been here 24 hrs and I've definitely made this mistake.

I don't believe I've upvoted a "thanks" or a "good post dude" but I know I've done it a few times.

I assumed that since we're encouraged to upvote our posts that I was being dumb to not upvote a valid comment. I also assumed that it was helping the author in the long run. I guess not.

And btw what constitutes a stupid comment stellabelle?

If it's such a destructive concept perhaps you could provide some guidance rather than crying "there goes the neighborhood" because of all the new morons, or encouraging people to unfollow us. Making a mistake doesn't mean we're trying to ruin the platform.

Just sayin'

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gokulnk (63) · 7 years ago

Agree with you on this. I am also guilty of doing this. I don't up-vote my comments if it is a "Good article, Thank you" kind of comment. But whenever I feel like my comment is adding value to the subject of the post and should find other's attention I generally up-vote my own comment. I still feel that is ok and not such a huge offence.

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quattrophoto (49) · 7 years ago

What if we divided the voting power into 3, self voting, community power, and flag power, with community power being the highest

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eusebio (52) · 7 years ago

In all economic system there is the prisoner's dilemma. I think is the system who has that to prevent it. The market is live. The people only are waves in the sea.

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

Keep in mind all minnows, that coming into Steemit and trying to find an instant get-rich quick scheme will only end in disappointment/quitting. The ones who remain are the ones who take the time to read the whitepaper, and to understand what a Mutual Aid Society is. Here's something about Mutual Aid Society:

That's well said. @stellabelle

Is this ethically right? @stellabelle

I upvote:

1. All my posts at 100% weight.

2. All my comments at 1% weight.

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

Do you mean you upvote your own comments at 1%?

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 7 years ago

Yes.

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stellabelle (75) · 7 years ago

ah, that doesn't seem too bad to me......

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 7 years ago

The idea is to push my comments near the top of the comment feed. 😊

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uruiamme (52) · 7 years ago

Why?

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 7 years ago

Why would someone want their comment to be more visible? @uruiamme

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abegail (41) · 7 years ago

@stellabelle It's like giving yourself a high-five right?. By the way, I would highly appreciate if you can take time to visit my Introduction Looking forward meeting new friends :) I wanna know your thoughts :)

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enjoywithtroy (68) · 7 years ago

Great article. When you come to steemit you do not know the etiquette and ramifications of your actions. You try different things and grow. This is a phenomenal platform and I hope we can all keep it that way. I particularly appreciated the verbage in your article of ' you'll be scraping off your own scabs, trying to sell them for ten cents to a bunch of people who don't want them.' Thanks for sharing. - Troy

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sanks7 (56) · 7 years ago (edited)

Wow great post keep it up...

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aggroed (78) · 7 years ago

attribution goes to @ethical-ai on the list. I knew what to look for. He put the programming together to dig it up.

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vickstick (43) · 7 years ago

Interesting post, thanks for sharing :)

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jery (49) · 7 years ago

Nice post, now i follow you, follow back thank you

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uruiamme (52) · 7 years ago

That was... ironic!

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funkit (60) · 7 years ago

If it was only self indulgence, it would fade. I have a hunch it is whale votes that count these days. I was hardly able to end a competition that is based on voting. No one cares. Everyone loves the result, but actually deciding who wins and differenting the good from the bad was not interesting. You can see the result here: https://steemit.com/art/@funkit/the-steemit-streetart-challenge-3-final-results

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clemdane (52) · 7 years ago

Only problem is, you may have just told a ton of newbs that they could self-upvote. I say that because I am a newbie and had no idea I could do this. I am not going to start now because I think it's cheesy, but not everyone may feel that way.

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kryptokayden (58) · 7 years ago

Great post,let me upvote my comment xD jk jk. You described self voting exactly how it is,masturbation! But in my opinion some people,specially minnows do it because no one else will and i can forgive them for that.

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flipstar (71) · 7 years ago (edited)

I disagree. I put sometimes more effort into a comment then into a post, I think it is totally fine to upvote it myself.

Also I want peopel to engage with my commetn I have better chances when my comment is on top.

That doesnt mean I agree with people who only upvote on themselves.

But if I put a lot of effort into a comment why not upvote it. It can be the same work as writing an own post.

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kryptokayden (58) · 7 years ago

In that case i definitely agree with you,feel free to upvote it.

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vangelov (60) · 7 years ago

I think this haed fork needs to be slightly fixed if you asked me.. And honestly it would be for the best if we can't really upvote ourselves at all,
That is going to improve the hell out of fluidity and make people more vote friendly in the future.
Cheers and best of luck to all in your steem ventures.
Goldie 🍻🍀

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kryptokayden (58) · 7 years ago

This. Definitely this.

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traid (25) · 7 years ago

Thanks for this information will be following this closely

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dougkarr (65) · 7 years ago

"We can create the most amazing place on the internet, or a masturbatory shit-pool."
Hahah! Nice one

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abudar (66) · 7 years ago

interesting post
thank to sharing

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rkaz (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

I have a perspective of it as well, Shameless greedy way to become a whale. So, I strictly follow this rule. As you can see I have upvoted my post before you could even read it. But after becoming a whale then self upvoting can be too greedy.

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princekayani (41) · 7 years ago

AAAh, Brilliant post

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themevlog (53) · 7 years ago

isn't that pretty much what 'whales' do now? upvote only their own since HF19?

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cscunlimited (38) · 7 years ago

Great article and I agree with everything you mentioned. Seems every day more and more abuse is seen here on Steemit and the absolute best way to curtail it is to call the abusers out publicly and make it clear we will not tolerate their BS. Thanks for the article!

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davebrewer (59) · 7 years ago

Great analysis. But the issue can also exist on deeper and less obvious level, if we have circles upvoting each other's comments, with the circle all really linked to a single pool of whale money.

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tinashe (58) · 7 years ago

thats very bad ,upvoting comments is bad.

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haushinka (46) · 7 years ago

I will try to follow this daily. High on the content low on the mastrabatory activities.

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teamhumble (74) · 7 years ago

thanks for this clarity on the upvoting of comments. i did'nt realise that it was seen this way, during hf19 and for the first time ever i had a little bit of voting power on comments i would vote up comments purely from a perspective of them getting seen. from a web perspective i've always been been taught that everything that you want to see is 'above the fold' that line at the bottom before you scroll and when you have lots of comments after a few pages some people might not see your comment so i guess when i have voted up my own comment it was never from a money perspective it was more about being seen i guess to be above another comment. now that i know it causes mild rage and is 'not the done' thing i'll be more wary, thanks!

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damesjean (42) · 7 years ago

love is in the air i can feel it everywhere... :-)

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exavier (50) · 7 years ago

I'll agree I have no problem with someone self voting here and there. But if you use all of your voting power for that just seems wasteful. You still need to spread votes around. That's how the blockchain econemy works. We're all meant to interact with each other here and a part of a community.

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darknessprincess (15) · 7 years ago

Am Follow And Upvotes you please back follow and upvotes thanks in advance :) @darknessprincess

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panaguili (44) · 7 years ago

que buena perspectiva .

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shahzaibniaxi (51) · 7 years ago

Upvoted and just followed you now :)

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marcaprio (44) · 7 years ago

Good article, and good point to take away.

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cryptheld (33) · 7 years ago

The truth is always bitter

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team-leibniz (62) · 7 years ago (edited)

I agree completely with your sentiment, but as you alluded to, it still won't solve the voting "self-stimulation" problem for people that have large amounts of Steem Power. Even if we are ignoring it, which I am as well, it still is going on.

What are your thoughts on flagging? Do we qualify this now as Steemit abuse?

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snoe860 (43) · 7 years ago

I confess, I upvoted one of my comments right after the update, just to see what it was worth. But I've felt bad upvoting my own 2 posts, let alone my comments.

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arjane (59) · 7 years ago

Thanks

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panknil (52) · 7 years ago

Great post!! keep it up!!!

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george-topalov (58) · 7 years ago

It is a bit like liking your own photos on facebook but bit more justified since you get paid..

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justinejuly (40) · 7 years ago

Everyone just got excited on hf19. Thanks for the reminder. Everyone should learn from this.

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mybrp (38) · 7 years ago

this is really we need to learn Do's and don't

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blunderbabe (50) · 7 years ago

It's baffling to me, it really is. I'm one of those people, a dreamer I guess, who believes in helping others on the way up. Sure, you can't help others until you are in a position to help yourself - but this platform is designed in a way that whales can benefit immensely, while giving a few crumbs to the minnows.

It costs nothing to use a couple big upvotes to boost a minnow a teeny, tiny bit closer to the surface. Why do so many have the mentality that anyone else's wallet growing a bit while theirs grows exponentially somehow threatens them?

Maybe I'm just a silly hippy.

I totally agree that upvoting your own posts is just fine - no matter what level you are. You take time to create content, and deserve a reward. Now, I think, if I was a whale, I'd probably set my upvotes for posts at 50% or something. But that's me.

I'm one of those not a fan of rules and regulations people though - because I believe in the power of the people to punish those who abuse their power. I hope that happens here - actually, no, that's the negative view. Maybe the abusers will learn from posts like these that it's in their best interest to share with the community, and earn rewards. Then everyone wins.

Thanks for sharing this!

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jasonstaggers (63) · 7 years ago

I think this is the most balanced and reasoned perspective I've read on the topic. Made me laugh too :) Great post.

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tonyr (60) · 7 years ago

A very welcome post @stellabelle!

Hope your day is going well!

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rudyrun (43) · 7 years ago (edited)

As far as I can see and I am a little redfish it's not so simple as it looks.

Self upvoting is not what the founders wanted for this site.
If someone invested his own money and selfvoting is his way to take a profit than it's ok -my opinion
Selfvoting in small groups is a much bigger problem
That's like masturbating with all my friends in one room
And bots are the biggest problem
That is getting jerkt off buy a robot and everybody is watching

I find it interesting that we discuss selfvoting intensely but the rest of the mess stays in the closet
Excuse my language thx

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machhour (61) · 7 years ago

Wow amazing post , i would like post like you
thanks for sharing
i follow you
@machhour

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talanhorne (67) · 7 years ago

Thanks to the added upvoting power I got from the hard fork, I now make almost as much money upvoting other people's stuff as I would upvoting my own.

For this reason, I find it better just to keep upvoting stuff I like, rather than just upvoting my own stuff. It helps the community, builds good will and good PR, and profits me just as much as it would if I self-upvoted.

I think a lot of people would be surprised just how profitable it is to be generous, and that's especially true on Steemit.

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cryptopreneur (39) · 7 years ago

Why do i feel a bit happy there is some kind of solution but got a deep chilling feeling there is gonna be selfvote crypto whale war? 🎣

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shirish5 (57) · 7 years ago

Nice post, not good to upvote self comments.

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kboslice (36) · 7 years ago

honestly I don't have the time to take this stuff do seriously, I don't care if people upvote themselves.

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saved4newlife (51) · 7 years ago (edited)

I agree. Being new to Steemit it didn't take long to see how people abuse the system. Some things will never change in life but I agree that the Steemit community can control actions such as this by doing exactly what you said. Pointing these abusers out will put an unwanted spotlight on them. Some may change but I also fear some wont and just don't care. I believe self voting a comment should be eliminated from the system. Great post. Thanks for sharing!

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ptmikesteem (60) · 7 years ago

If you leave a comment that has real value and adds to the quality of the post then I guess it wouldn't be that bad but to upvote a one word comment, really doesn't add to the community value.

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