Fighting Spam On The BlockchainsteemCreated with Sketch.

in shit-show •  6 years ago 


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When the Internet was invented what did many people think?

Oh no. Anyone can say anything without any filters? This is going to be a shit-show.

And it was a shit-show, and it still is a shit-show.



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We have front row seats to our very own shit-show right here on the blockchain. Except now, we can't moderate any of the content and hundreds if not thousands of nodes will be forced to save that spam in the database until the end of time.



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So, what's the best way to prevent this type of spam from infecting the blockchain? Are we supposed to ignore the trolls? Are we supposed to fight them? Should we rally against them and perform troll exorcism? Maybe, but the most basic answer is so much simpler than all that.


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The easy way.

According to Andreas Antonopoulos, there is no such thing as a spam transaction. According to consensus, if anyone pays the fee to broadcast, this fee is what makes that operation valid. From this perspective it is easy to see that the best way to eliminate spam is to increase transaction fees.

You might be thinking:

But wait, Steem doesn't have fees.

Oh, but it does, and we pay for them in the form of inflation to the witnesses in exchange for resource credits.

And so, the more valuable projects that are brought to the Steem blockchain, the more RCs will be worth. Eventually, we will have to stop operating on a fractional reserve of RCs (giving 10x credits to every account) because users are going to actually start using those credits, and the witnesses won't be able to handle the volume. RC costs will skyrocket 10x or more.

When this happens, we will have to implement RC pools because low level plankton will not be able to transact as much as they want to. The demand for resource credits will begin to far outrank its supply, meaning many users will be incentivized to pay for RCs. This will in turn create a free-market where the value of RCs are determined by supply and demand in an emergent economy.

Do you think trolls are going to continue spamming the blockchain when they are basically losing money to do so? Sure they will, but the market will incentivize the opposite behavior. Micro-charges are a powerful motivator.


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Imagine if 1M RCs was worth a penny. This means you can either choose to spend those RCs and post a comment, or you can sell those RCs for one penny. Will trolls be running around posting garbage on the blockchain when they could have sold those RCs for $20? Probably not.

And I know what many of you are thinking: what a nightmare scenario! Another rent-seeking service that whales will profit off of just like bid-bots? Where does it all end?

You know, that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Right now, the witnesses can handle all the bandwidth we are throwing at them. That won't be true forever. The only way to stop our platform from melting is to charge a fee for the service. Right now, that fee is effectively zero because there is no practical way to sell RCs, but once resource pools come into the equation it will be a whole different story.

So maybe now you're thinking we should avoid implementing resource pools. Well, that's a really bad idea because it leaves us in a situation where it is impossible for plankton to transact on the blockchain. At least when Bitcoin transactions spike up to $50 everyone has the option of paying that fee if it is worth it to them. If we don't provide the means to transact on the blockchain our platform becomes a joke.

However, if you're reading this, you are in luck! Buy Steem coins! Get ahead of this problem before it hits us. If you don't want to purchase Steem, continue to acquire it by getting tipped. Power up those tips. Don't cash out. Continue to expand your network. Many stake-holders will be giving away their RCs for free to handpicked individuals. Many dapplications will be giving away RCs for free if you are using their dapp.

Trust me, having overwhelming demand to transact on the blockchain is a problem we want to have. Scaling will always be an issue. A flood of new users will arrive during the next bull run, and just like the last time, not all of them will have the privilege of being serviced. If 1M RCs cost 1 penny, imagine how much a Steem coin is worth. No one is going to want to sell if their coins are giving them upvote power in addition to RCs worth more than the inflation they cost to create. SBD will be > $1, our temporary inflation will be cut in half, and the volatile insanity will begin anew.

Think about it this way: a plankton has to pay 1 cent each time they want to harvest wheat on their SteemVille farm. However, that wheat is worth 3 cents, so the plankton actually made money by buying RCs and then converting them into an even more rare digital asset with greater value. Now they can use that wheat to buy three times as many RCs, or simply expend them in the game to progress farther. These kinds of interactions are going to create insane network effects and emergent properties and economies that can't even be fathomed at this point in time.


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The hard way.

Blockchain is permissionless architecture. We don't have to ask permission to pick and choose what data we want to extract from the blockchain and how we organize that data. Anyone can create a front-end were users own their blogspace. They can control which users are allowed to comment on their blogs (whitelist), requiring green-light moderation for anyone else, and they can choose which users are not allowed to post on their blog (blacklist).

Of course, users on the blacklist could still comment and broadcast their operation to the nodes. Their comments would still be seen on front-ends like Steemit, Busy, and Steempeak. However, it would not appear on this new front-end. We can customize our social media as much as we please and every user is allowed to pick whichever front-end they desire to display the blockchain to them. This is the power of permissionless systems.

I've somewhat explained my stance on this.

Silk road and the value of decentralized Reputation

What I would like to see is a custom reputation system connected to a front-end.


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Basic idea

In the process of building our network, we get a feel for which accounts we can and can't trust. By assigning a level of trust to handpicked accounts, we can create a frontend that changes how blockchain information is displayed to each user in a custom way.

For example. If I trust account @xyz I could promote them within my own personal reputation system. Say I promote them to "Level 1". I also get to choose what "Level 1" means. Perhaps it is a whitelist to post on my blog. Perhaps it adds a theoretical 5 cents to every comment they post (to determine comment order automatically). Perhaps it means they are allowed to moderate the comments on my blog. Perhaps it means all of the above and more.

User @poopshoot.com starts spamming my blog with garbage. I blacklist his account. Now, everyone who uses the same frontend that I use will never see his comments.

User @amazing posts an amazing comment. I broadcast custom JSON operation "Rank 1" on the comment. Now, everyone that views my blog with this frontend sees @amazing's comment in the top slot no matter what.

User @smartguy posts a pensive comment. @xyz has moderator privileges on my blog. @xyz posts custom JSON operation "Rank 2" on @smartguy's comment. Now everyone that views my blog will see this comment in the number 2 slot no matter what if they are using the correct frontend.

I open my trending tab. I see that @jinn is self-upvoting all his garbage analysis again. I blacklist @jinn from my trending tab. Now all his self-upvotes count for nothing and he disappears from my custom trending page.

I find a list of bid-bots and put them all on my trending tab blacklist.

I decide I want posts/comments that decline rewards to be ranked higher.

I decide I want posts that have been promoted with SBD to rank higher/lower.

I share my custom system with everyone on the blockchain so they don't have to reinvent the wheel. Not everyone will be forced to put in work and make their own custom filter. Filters can be copied.


There is no limit to how we can organize blockchain information.



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Conclusion

Naturally increasing demand to use the blockchain will decentivize spam.

Frontend's that grant more power to the original poster will eradicate trolls.

Flagging is a viable, albeit more expensive, option.

Blockchain is permissionless, the only rules we have to follow are embedded in the consensus algorithm. Just because a post has high rewards doesn't mean we have to look at it. We can organize the information however we like.

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Great ideas! I'm going to make this happen. How long... that's another thing lol. I already had ideas for custom blogs. These are great additions. I just need to refactor my code for Redux before I go on with more on the community curationa nd then front page part.

























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































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I like that idea about more power to the original poster will help get rid of more spam.

I'm trying to think how you would perpetuate your personal rep system on the chain. For a given post you can add JSON tags to each commentator and that would work fine. But doing that for each post would be cumbersome.

To keep a database on each user would also be cumbersome.

In this hypothetical condenser, you could publish a footer on each post that isn't displayed by the site and contains your reputation score of others. That seems like it would work, but it's sort of a brute force approach.

It's not on the chain, it is on your computer. There would be an option to post a snapshot to the chain to be copied by others or for use on other machines.

I make this extremely unclear because I was talking about posting individual custom json operations, but I probably wouldn't actually set it up that way.

I'm picking up what you're putting down.
One step further, could the op manually set the RC cost to comment? Then the content is never even written, and doesn't need to be filtered out by the front end.

I think that it should be possible for apps to adjust how RCs are used including discounting transactions using their own stake. For example, SMs might want to reduce their transaction costs for users to encourage usage and since they don't suffer spam, that is fine. The user gets assigned some factor or reduction as they login which is usable only on SMs and returned to the pool on logout.

Thid means that with minimal SP (which can still vote), a lot of RC bandwidth can be created at any one time to empower users.

As you know, I love RCs. 💙

People just need to catch up, as do the Devs.

The flexibility that resource credits have brought to the ecosystem is great as it allows for proper measurements of scaling issues as demand and engagement increase. I am looking forward to more development on this towards the communities sonce Hivemind has launched as I feel that it could make a great difference in how we create experiences with the community.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Superb post. You are absolutely right that communities will be bringing their UX to the blockchain, and these are just a few of the kinds of attributes such communities will certainly find advisable.

I'm actually going to have to find a way to like this, because I am a big fan of discourse, and echo chambers - which this will create - are dearth of discourse. It is what it is, however, and no one is forcing us (yet) to censor people that disagree with us. Plenty of folks will, however, and those that do will be unavailed of the benefits of contrary opinions.

Their loss.

Thanks!











































































































































































































































































































































What's so expensive about the Steem blockchain? All this discussion of how costly it is, why we need the RC system, why we must buy Steem in order to interact with the blockchain, why we can't bring on new users, why the site is slowing down, why advertisements (to profit the front end providers) are going to be forced onto our blogs, etc etc.
It reminds me how government constantly increases taxes and fees and other ways of bringing in money, while rarely justifying their pay raises and new taxes. Costs aren't going up, their greed and inefficiency is. Is that what's happening here, too?
I ask what the actual costs of the blockchain are. When everybody involved is working without pay, things should be able to be done pretty cheaply. Thousands of the world's top programmers are involved, and ready to do much more. Content-creators have been gathered and somehow even retained, without pay, in the hopes that their earned tokens will someday be worth more than pennies. Hundreds of computers around the world share the cost of server space and electricity. There is nobody on the payroll and this whole thing has been built that way on purpose - no costs to be paid and nothing standing in our way.
So I'm asking, what are these exorbitant unexpected massive costs being used to justify advertisements on our content, higher fees to post (supposedly to protect us from trolls), rent-seeking services?
In short, what are we, the lifeblood of the blockchain, being made to pay for?

Hundreds of computers around the world share the cost of server space and electricity.

Every node has to store all the information of the blockchain. There is no sharing involved. Blockchain is a highly inefficient database that establishes trust/consensus by copying the same information over and over and over all across the globe.

The inefficiency of the blockchain is not sustainable if too many users want to post on Steem. Prices will rise or fall in a free market ruled by supply and demand.

As someone with 1088 coins you own around 1/300,000 of this platform. What if a million people are trying to use Steem? 2 million? 3 million? For a worldwide service, these are not very big numbers, but they would crush us if we didn't have some way of knowing who gets bandwidth and who doesn't.

You are personally already in the top 1%.

"Blockchain is a highly inefficient database.."
"The inefficiency of the blockchain is not sustainable.."
That doesn't sound good.
Why are we doing things this way, if they're so expensive, and unsustainable? We're already paying just to post, and Steemit is about to bog us down with advertising to pay for our posting. Now I'm hearing from you and others that costs are only going to go UP as the blockchain gets less efficient. I don't remember this part in the sales pitch when I invested my savings and time into the blockchain. The unsustainable and inefficient part of things is only being openly talked about recently. Hell, Steemit's FAQ and intro pages still say it's free to use the site and blockchain, and "you might even get paid for it!" Har har har.
I guess this is why it's a permanent beta project. It's broken now and suddenly we're told that it's only going to get less efficient more expensive.
Anyway, I appreciate your honesty.

failing to scale, gracefully

Every product fails to scale until it doesn't,
and then it fails again with increased use and new applications.
Scaling is a moving target.

The inefficiency of the blockchain buys trust.
Trust is in short supply these days.

I don't understand all of that at the moment, but I'll chew on it. Thanks.































Man these are some great ideas and can't wait to see someone that picks them up and actually starts to implement them (if it's possible currently).

I think that's one of my biggest complaints with steempeaks, busy, etc is that I'm glad they've polished the steemit site and made it their own into something better. Now I want them or someone to take the next step and start taking steps like what you were talking about above.

I wonder if pools would even be needed or if an account would be created for new minnows to post in. Larger accounts could review the comments and if they feel like the new user is creating good content delegate them some steem power / resource credits.

I'm sure there will still be pools for purchase resource credits to spam the chain, but I'm more excited to see what develops from a community supporting community standpoint. How, even with high resource credit costs, the community could ban together to still make this an even better slightly less trolly platform.

Well, these are the most shitty comments I've ever seen.

zing.

lol, bada bing bada boom!

Comment powering is already a thing? Great ideas, thanks for the explanation, hat's off to you.

I really liked your publication. Greetings.

I'm just passing the time until the mothership comes back to pick me up.

We absolutely need to reassess the numbers in the new system...it's disappointing that it hasn't really been done to at least a certain degree yet. New users should at the very least be able to post once per day and vote enough so they don't end up at 100% VP constantly. Of course, part of that is based on the SP that Steemit provides new accounts. If other services pop up that delegate more or less SP, that might need to be taken into account. Of course, they could make up for that with RC pools.

Of course, we might not want to give random users the same amount of RC that we give known good users. We could have curators that determine users to delegate to, or however we do RC pools. Maybe they would give them an allotment of RC every day or something.

It will likely be possible to buy RC in some way, as you point out. I doubt this will prevent "trolls" though. Many get entertainment out of their activity. Would you may 5 cents to heckle some asshole? I think I might in certain instances. Of course, the more it costs, the less likely people are going to spend money for certain activities...but you have to remember that not everyone lives in a country where income is as high as the "1st world". In some countries $1 is a lot more money. The thousand Steem I have in my account is more than people in many countries would earn in a month. Though it was a lot more before Steem crashed.

We also need to consider the cost of running servers and if their cost will be greater than the amount we're paying witnesses. There's a possibility that Steem might grow to a size that requires more servers than most witnesses would want to run. We might have to reconsider how the system pays, and not just pay based on top 20 witnesses, but based on servers as well. I doubt that the RC system as it stands currently will stand the test of time. Sure, RC helps prevent spam by users with low SP, but I'm not sure that's all we should do...let alone whether it will continue to pay for Steem activity, as you talked about in your post.

Sorry for being sort of all over the place and the long comment. Sorta my thing though. :P

Edit: Oh, and the whole whitelist/blacklist thing will actually be needed for people running Steem sites. Whether or not people want it, you need the ability to control comments on your own domain in many instances. You don't want a bunch of shit posted all over your band site or company site. Approving individual comments is also a possibility that might be required by some.



















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































Congratulations @edicted!
Your post was mentioned in the Steem Hit Parade in the following category:

  • Comments - Ranked 2 with 313 comments

Upvoted, just for the picture memes.

I have no idea how to fix the shitshow, I prefer my own junk filters, often the best one is to get offline completely.

Steemit appears to be a sinking ship, how long it will continue to float is anyone's guess at this point.































I like your ideas. Have an upvote.

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