Question

in solar •  7 years ago 



For Hardware Geeks
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I haz one of these

(I bought it with profit from the recent SBD price increase. It was basically free)
It takes 120v input.
My question is
can I get one of these

and connect it to one of these
12v input...120v 1,000 watt output

12v, 100 watt output
to keep it topped off?

converting sunlight to 12 v then to 120v then charging a 20v battery is stupid...but it iz what it iz

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OK, @everittdmickey ... it all centers around the inverter you intend to use at this point. Can you link me to the specs of that. or at least a model number? Likely all of your selected components may work as intended, but inverter current is important. Also the PPS requirements matter too, but it might still charge at a slower rate if the panel cannot keep up. I have a very cheap HF (Harbor Freight) inverter that works well, 750w and it was like $40

dewalt 1k inverter
I don't care how long it takes to charge... t
I just don't want to ruin something.

I found this, and it agrees with your statement above:

Question:
How much energy does this unit in $ amount, suck out of a wall socket to charge 4 -20-6 ah Flex Volts in a single charge cycle? how fast can it charg
Answer:
This unit draws up to 3 amps of current when charging 4 batteries at once. It charges up to four 4.0 Ah battery in about 2 hours and a 6.0 Ah battery in about 3.
By Stanley Black & Decker on December 14, 2016

So you would need around a 360w Inverter, minimum. I've seen 350 but that is running it too close, I'd use a 750 just for giggles. The solar panel looks to be ~100w capable. Directly feeding an inverter with a solar panel is not usually done unless you have a lot more solar output than the inverter needs, UNLESS you have a battery bank between. You'd need more than one panel to feed the inverter, without a battery bank in the panel to inverter chain.

Personally, I'd use 500w of Solar, feeding a 400w Inverter, then the PPS. If you want to use less solar panels, you definitely need another battery bank. Then sizing changes again... but a smaller panel arrangement can be used.

thanx

why would it matter if the solar panel output is too low?
a spoon scoops just as well as a grain shovel...just takes longer.

In my experience, they just shut down and do nothing. Most of these things put out a lower voltage, which causes a greater amp draw. As you may have noticed, the panel delivers 17v nominal to a 12v rated inverter... The inverter can work with a voltage "range" but at lower volts, it needs more amps. If we have limited sunlight, the inverter needs more amps and it usually just goes into alarm and shuts off shortly thereafter. 17.7v times 5.7 amps is your 100 watt rating, (100.89 to be exact) Electronic regulation makes the outputs stable. 4 series Lithium Ion cells, multiplied to get 35 amps out would make the small Solar Panel work great, but that adds a lot of expense. The PPS is made to hold a lot of charge all on it's own, perhaps just buying 2 whole sets (8 batts) of the DeWalt Batteries is a more feasible and economic situation? Less flexible, but cheaper.

er...no.
the PPS doesn't have any internal batteries....

I meant the drill batteries. Get at least 8 of those big 9.0AH ones and forget about the solar panel and extra inverter ;)
Here's that link again:
https://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DCB609-2-FLEXVOLT-Battery-Pack/dp/B06WP6GJ4M/ref=pd_sim_469_1/134-0298947-4711315?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=TJY8QPRDFVNP9N0N4R8Y

That plus your smaller ones with the tools you already have should do the trick all day I'd think. Then maybe solar later? lol

Those are LOTS Cheaper than the Milwaukee Red Lithium 9.0AH batteries I saw locally, $179 each! OUCH! $103 for the DeWalt

when I got the PPS it came with four batteries...
I already had two so that makes six total now.
those suckers are EXPENSIVE..the big one cost $100 each.

AT BEST, provided the Panel and Inverter can stay running, it would charge the PPS a lot slower than normal. Let's just assume that the 100w total is available at the PPS 120v input terminals... DeWalt says it needs 360w to charge at full speed. so you would be actually be charging at ~28% of full speed, meaning it would take 3.6 times longer to charge. The regular 4.0AH batteries take 2 hours to charge at the normal full power rate, so that equates to 7.2 hours with a 100w source.
The outputs are so much lower that I believe it will just trip out and not charge at all, but I'm not really sure.

Here is a scenario or two that Will Work Properly:

  1. 4x or 5x 100w solar panels, 400w inverter, PPS
  2. 1x or 2x 100w solar panels, battery bank (12v, 35a) 400w inverter, PPS
  3. PPS with lots of extra batteries

These are all "by the book", that is not saying you might get lucky and have a "too small" solar charger set up work as a "top off" setup. I'd be surprised if the PPS will charge 4 batteries at all with much less than full rated wattage. I will check the amazon link again, it had like 92 answered questions, maybe someone else asked the same thing?

IF...there was a DC input..then all that would be needed was a solar panel.

Yes, but it would need to be at least 24v or 2 panels in series. Then all the losses of the AC circuits would be eliminated as well! 200w of DC power would charge the Li-Ions pretty quickly, and if they were full, the panels would help run the PPS inverter circuit. DW needs to "engineer" that into the system ;)

they definitely need to consider solar.
before I got the PPS I had two small batteries and five tools.
I could work for several hours before the batteries went flat.
IF I had several batteries CHARGING (however slow), I could swap em out.
NEVER run out of juice.

Exactly!
You could just get like a Venom Charger, works from a DC source,
charges any voltage of any style or chemistry of battery. I think it needs 24v DC and it would charge at a rate depending on the wattage you supply by the number of panels?

wouldn't need it.
all the charging circuitry is already there.
Just need a connection.
I'm pretty sure (I used to be an electronic tech) that the voltage is stepped down from 120v to charge the leeetle bitty LIon cells (charging voltage is about four volts)

5 volts per cell is what they use, 4.2 is a fully charged Lithium Ion. I bet you could bypass the AC part and supply 25v to the charge buss and do it! :D Then the charge rate (speed) would be determined by the ampacity of the source.
Since you got the PPS for "free" it's OK to hack it, right? :D

Bro. Mickey, it is possible but I need all the nameplate specs to know if it will work. Like @aceofthegrove said, you might need another battery and inverter to make it happen, but this pic looks to be an inverter.

I am a professional Electrician and this Alt.Energy is my "hobby" as well :D More info needed, but perhaps the stuff you show is enough?

Your Portable Power Station may have a 12v input, with that you could avoid an inverter completely... What all are you trying to do with this set of toys? ;)

Each stage has a 10% to 20% loss of efficiency, so going from Solar straight to the PPS will make it tons more effective! Many DC Converters are in excess of 95% efficient, as compared to a cheap inverter being "up to" 87% efficient. Staying DC all the way is a definite PLUS.

it doesn't have a DC input.

Darn, too bad! ;)

dewalt 1kw inverter
I wanna stick with dewalt...just because.

Makes perfect sense! They should use the same de-rating specs across the entire line, meaning that 1000w with the inverter would surely power like 3 of the PPS in charge mode. But you would need like #4 AWG copper wire to connect to your vehicle's alternator :D

the 'vehicle' is a boat.
I'm remodeling an old houseboat.

I know its unlikely, but damn do I hope we get to see that thing.

nope..it has a 120AC input. It's purpose is to take juice from the wall..and charge the batteries.
those batteries can then be used in two ways...
one..they can be removed to run portable power tools..

or two
used as a powerstation


I want to charge it with solar power...
It doesn't have a DC input.

my main concern is what if the powerstation attemps to draw MORE power than the solar cell (and hence the inverter plugged into it) can provide.
the input is 120vac, 60hz...3amps.
lessee... 1000 watt (powah) output..at 120 volt
1000 wwatt /120 v = about 8 amp output from the power inverter.
hmmmm
for the solar panel

five amps...that should be enough

izzat right?

seems like it should work.

what if I used a smaller inverter?
I have a 400 watt laying around?
400watt/120 volt = 3.33 amp...little low.

Next question..does modified sine wave vs pure sine wave matter?

Modified sine wave should be fine for this, but I'd ask DeWalt that question.
A battery bank between the solar panel and inverter would help the situation, when the inverter is needing more juice than the panel can deliver. Looking at all your info, brb

right now I'm thinking it will work.
all I need to do is decide on which (flexible) solar panel.
it's too bad that marketing people are damn liars..

It will work with one panel and some batteries, your 400w inverter and the PPS... The batteries need to be able to deliver 12v+ at ~35 amps. That would be a serious Li-Ion bank (in $$$) and a serious bank in Lead Acid, weight wise.
5 panels COULD do the job, in direct sun. Actually your 400w inverter in the car/truck would be pretty good, as long as it was running. Yes, Marketing People are fast and loose with FACTS that regular folk can use! Meaning, LIARS lol

I'm not understanding this.
why do I need batteries to charge the batteries in the PPS?

SIMPLY to "buffer" the solar panel, cuz it is Too Small! Panel Output is only 100w... not 1000!

gotcha...
I wonder how small the battery can be?
it only needs 3amps.

You are the lucky person to get the stuff from esteemit ,,,,


the harder I work...the luckier I get.

I believe it could be done. You'd need an inverter and a battery. I think you'd be better off buying a solar panel kit that comes with all the essential parts, wire, and that piece of paper that never gets used.

So you would be charging a battery with sunlight that charges another battery that charges multiple batteries.

Seems like this method would be rather inefficient, although it'd be pretty interesting to see it done.

the power station contains an inverter (and charge controller) and has plug in litium batteries that are used on the power tools...OR...used as a portable power station

the other thingie I showed IS a power inverter..

looks like a good piece of hardware @everittdmickey
guess its for electricity generation during camping?

it's intended to replace a gas generator for use at a jobsite.

oh great one. keep up the good work mate. thanks for sharing

Yes, I'm pretty sure/very you can, is the short answer.

How is a bit vague - You know me and sciensy things...

( I knew my knowledge from the days of batteries, camper vans, and convertors would come in handy someday. lol)

I'm thinking so too.
I'm gonna check with dewalt to determine if the PPS requires pure sine wave AC. ..to determine which inverter I get.

something, something, sine wave....

( i just wired all my stuff together, and it worked lol)

no smoke?
no sparks?
what's the fun of that?