But how is flagging then sometimes abuse in your opinion, if voting is just the right of a stakeholder? Both are just voting, done for arbitrary reasons.
I've written about this in detail here, if you're interested to know my views.
Many people care. Very deeply, in fact. Steemit isn't perfect and certainly has many challenges to overcome. This is part of being a community and working through those challenges together, hopefully in a respectful manner.
Steemit is what we make it to be.
All due respect mate , but are you aware that the copy and pasting of other people's comments back to them is..like..really obnoxious ?
just saying. thought maybe no one had told you is all : o)
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I've been here a year and have posted/commented over 6,000 times. No one has ever mentioned it being obnoxious at all. On the contrary, I think it's extremely helpful to ensure clarity in communication. One of the biggest breakdowns is when people respond to something the other person hasn't said or don't clarify which part they are responding to.
With all due respect, please acknowledge what bothers you personally may not bother others at all and since you joined less than a month ago, your perspective may not be as broad as it could be.
That said, I appreciate your intentions, trying to help me. I disagree with you because I think clarity of communication is really important. Quoting someone else, to me, is respectfully showing them you directly read what they said and have a specific point to make about it.
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ok.. yep I see what your saying, however as i'm pretty old and have been interacting with people a very long time , the amount of time I have been on steemit is quite irrelevant. Wheather some one else has acknowledged this habit of yours, or not, is also relevant. As you're probably quite aware few people actually speak their mind on steemit for fear of not receiving an upvote, or even worse a 100% minus vote, I however am not. To increase clarity is indeed a noble endeavor, on that I will agree, but as I work on assisting people with methods of interaction, i find it far more important , to respectfully point out a flaw, because it facilitates clarity.
I feel i should inform you that it can be construed as obnoxious . If there is one, there are always others, just a law of nature. I take no offence, nor do I make judgement, both have no value to me, but as your clearly an intelligent person, with a great deal of knowledge to share, I decided to help you, so that you would not alienate those whom you seek to enlighten , by appearing to be obnoxious .
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But you do make a judgement. You've judged my actions as generally accepted to be obnoxious.
I disagree about few people speaking their minds here on Steemit. In my experience, more intelligent mind-speaking happens here than most anywhere else on the Internet. Are there some who flag people they disagree with? Sure, but they are a small minority.
To me, clarity is incredibly important. If that's obnoxious to some people, what's the alternative?
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So after pointing out to you that repeating back to a person, their own comment can be construed as being obnoxious , you chose to do it again. hmm now that has a hint of hostility about it.
Well ..no..mate. I didn't say anything about "generally", and it's not judgement to point it out a flaw brother.
As I agreed with you, clarity is important, however, is it not just as important, if not more, to assist in proving tools and methods to create opinions/information that are clear to start with ?
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Do you see the judgement within your claim of it being a "flaw"? What you see as a flaw, I think everyone should do more of because clarity of communication is really important.
When you have a conversation or debate with someone, do you think it's important to restate what you heard them say when responding to ensure you heard them correctly and you're fully including their perspective in your response? I think that's really important both offline and online.
I'm not purposefully being hostile. I'm doing what I rationally think to be a good communication practice.
You quoted "generally" which is what I said. That helps us clarify the conversation. If you were not saying "The action of quoting what people say back to them is generally accepted as obnoxious" then what's the alternative? Is it more "As an individual, I personally feel it's obnoxious to quote someone when responding to them"? To me, this is a matter of preference, not a flaw. Just as you felt the need to quote the word "generally", I feel the need to quote what others say to ensure I understand them correctly and communication is clear.
This conversation highlights the challenges with so many value judgements. We all do it. We make a judgement about something being good or bad, being a virtue or a flaw. At times we take it further and point it out to help someone else. I think there's value in recognizing someone may have very rational reasons for their actions and our own perspectives don't fit in the right and wrong category but is really just a subjective preference.
If someone chooses to engage with me, I communicate in ways I think are the most clear. The conversations I enjoy the most are ones where I know I'm being heard and the other person knows I've heard them. Quoting and responding to individual statements is the best way I know to do that in text format.
So we disagree on communication tactics and styes but you think my actions are flawed. Can you concede some may actually prefer my approach which would make it not a flaw for them at all?
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I would have replied sooner , however your last comment took so long to come back , I had gone to bed.
lol..now this may make you laugh if you have a good sense of humor.
As you pointed out you have made over 6000 posts and comments, so I have seen you in many places. I set out with a goal.
That goal was to see if your not simply an intelligent person, but also worthy to be followed. I decided to give you the opportunity to show me this.
The test was to see how/if you could accept constructive criticism, a very good indicator to the level of maturity and enlightenment of a persons mind.
However you felt the need to "win" outweighed the importance of receiving the information at hand, with a balanced reply.
So now knowing this, and you return to my original comment, do you see it the opportunity now ?
The correct response, or a version of it, would have been, Do I ?
Thank you for bringing that "potential flaw" to my attention, I was unaware that it "may" be perceived in such a way, because I find "clarity to be so important", i do this as a means to "improve communication".
You said;
"Can you concede some may actually prefer my approach which would make it not a flaw for them at all?"
For me concede, would suggest there is something to be won/lost or wrong/right.
Constructive criticism is none of these, and requires no one to concede anything, only take the opportunity to show wisdom, which is not based in intelligence, its based in maturity and experience.
So, ask yourself, do I have a flaw ?
What do you think my decision will be about following you, after conducting this test ? @lukestokes
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I accept and sincerely enjoy constructive criticism. I've already thanked you for your intentions, but I still disagree with your judgement on this issue. What you call a flaw, I think people should do more often to improve clarity of communication and wellbeing. It's not about winning or losing. We disagree on a social etiquette and from my perspective you're coming at this discussion from a position of "I'm right, you're wrong, and I'm here to enlighten you" while at the same time saying you're not making judgements.
As to my flaws, I have many. :) I'm a programmer so I try to approach the world in terms of logic, reason, efficiency, etc. My brain's reward centers fire off in ways which are... unique. I spend much of my time in front of a computer screen. Those who spend more time interacting directly with others pick up on things I do not and are more effective in many ways at interpersonal communication. I appreciate your attempts to fix an aspect of this you've perceived. And yet I still disagree on the benefit or harm of quoting people directly to ensure communication is clear.
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My point exactly.
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I don't agree with you, any system should be fair and if it has bugs like these the just need to be fixed. I know this might sound like a bone-headed comment but stuff needs to be simple.
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Please define "fair" in this context using my mining rig analogy. Is it "fair" to get a return on one's investment? I think it's arbitrary to say self-voting of posts is fine by comments is not. Or maybe it comes down to frequency? I think it's not clearly a "bug" as much as a community expectation which is still fuzzy and being figured out.
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Yes I'd make a distinction between people who buy their influence and those who earn it. Isn't that what we are fighting banks for? Money for nothing?
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Now we're getting philosophical. :)
What if they buy influence using money they worked very, very hard to earn? Why should only authors and curators have rights around here? Why not investors as well? Remember, investors are the ones who give every STEEM and SBD tradable value at all.
Banks are entirely different (IMO) because they do create money out of nothing without restrictions. The blockchain money rules for creation are known to all. I'm fighting banks because they deeply corrupt and lead to violence and war around the world. The history of central banking shows this to be true.
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Very valid points. I have been thinking about this for a long time. I wouldn't allow people to buy influence. You can't be sure how they got that fake money. It could be debt making real money in Steemit :)
If I trade fiat for steem, fiat loses value and steem gains right?
You know what? I'd treat outside investment and earned steempower differently. Let me be the judge of what I want to see. If I want to be appreciated then from people who know what they are talking about. Isn't this all about that?
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You see, you could allow outside money to be promoted but not affect curation.
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I think it's rather subjective and not something any centralized system can or should police or regulate. What if someone invested crypto (BTC they earned providing value to someone else, as an example) into Steemit? There's no way to know.
To me, it's a waste of time to put value judgements on how other people earn their stores of value and what currency they currently store it in. If they violate the NAP or some other moral framework most can agree on, then sure, but that's separate from the concept of money, IMO.
That said, Steemit has posting rewards right there on the blockchain, so you're free to value you things however you want. :)
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Well you are right. But I still think it's wrong that somebody could censor (by giving me a low score) me just because they have a lot of power. Isn't that what we wanted to avoid in the first place?
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I agree, which is what my post about flagging talks about. The connection between flagging and reputation score changes things a bit.
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You know I just have a grudge against people who are stupid but powerful. I'm sorry I don't want to waste your time for some mental block I clearly have, so be warned :)
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Stupid people are certainly a problem, and they are everywhere.
And we're all stupid in different areas of thinking.
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Thanks for you thorough comments, I appreciate them.
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They take time and effort, but don't get much rewards. Is that a "bug"? Hehehe.
Thank you also. I love great conversations on Steemit. :)
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No it's a feature which is behaving badly ;)
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