Support Fyrstikken in his fight against abuse of power

solarguy (68) · 8 years ago (edited)

you say that like @berniesanders was the only whale to do such a thing. The analytics show otherwise. All whales played a part, in incredibly different ways in attracting and chasing people off.

Imagine getting 40 1% votes and your post doesn't clear $1 and then Bernie shows up and his single vote brings that same post to over 10 or 20 bucks.

Just saying.

I like both these guys and in other ways I dont like em. Tough call. Cause both have done great things for me and both have done harmful things. Some by design, some by default.

is this the whale war of whale wars. the whale war to end all whale wars?

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ebryans (66) · 8 years ago

@solarguy, you seem to have a pretty level-headed take on this; it appears to me that there has been an on-going war of words and opinions between various whales, including Steemit Inc.. Unfortunately, this spat has spilled over into the broader community. It will continue to do so until the stake weight issue is addressed. Everyone seems to think it will go away if it is ignored. It will not.
I do not really know the ins and outs of it. I do not particularly like 1% voting, especially when minnows see it as the way to go! You would not treat a beggar in the street so poorly so why a fellow steemian?
I receive very few votes from whales because I have a certain amount of understanding of the game.
Solutions are what matter - this requires whales to develop their ears.
Namaste.

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

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j3dy (60) · 8 years ago

well you got htooms?smooth downvoted :D It seems bernie is on you rather than the viking :| sad days. It's the second time I'm seeing the vendetta since matrixdweller and skeptic got wrecked :|

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

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j3dy (60) · 8 years ago

well at least I can bring the votes to zero :D if I can't balance the power I can add more to one side :) Good luck, it's going to be interesting, has it been finished, or is the flagging still going

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

I don't know at this moment as I read this. I've been working. I'll post this comment and we will find out soon enough.

Last night Bernie mentioned in price chat that he has a bot set up to automatically downvote my comments. I would assume it is still running.

I'm going to journal how many days it goes on for. I'll keep you updated.

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3 votes

j3dy (60) · 8 years ago (edited)

the experiment 2.0 :D a more focused approach, testing the limits of seablue :| sorry I'm taking this as a joke, bernie is like that, I'm wondering if he will post a meme some time soon :D he's a meme whale after all (mean) :D

seems like you have the support and it all evens out, but the non stop flag war every 2 weeks is annoying at best :)

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solarguy (68) · 8 years ago

I vote for this, i don't think it should be shaded out.

There is no single action by anyone anywhere for any reason that will appease all people. Making one happy will certainly make some others unhappy.

I just go case by case.

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

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dragon40 (59) · 8 years ago

The more rookies the bullies run off, the more the Assholes of Steemit earn. It's simple greed.

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3 votes

pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago

Are you saying Bernie and gang don't want Steemit to grow? He certainly acts like that, doesn't he?

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steemitqa (64) · 8 years ago

The question is can Bernie downvote every Steemian into oblivion on this platform ? He sure could try to.

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3 votes

seablue (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

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pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago

I thought this would be finished after the experiment. Bernie sounds like a sad old man with nothing to do but bring people down.

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

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pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago

Of course I will read anyone going through this kind of abuse. I was silenced similar to this and will ALWAYS read censored steemians and upvote. I just wish my vote could help.

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

Can't we all just get along,...???

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pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago (edited)

Only if everyone thinks alike. We all have different experiences and bullies usually recycle what they got at home. Only the community can stand up and unite to take care of a few who want to target people. If not we continue to suffer alone by the few.

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

I agree that the first lesson we learn in life is to do what the big people say, or violence in some form, it colors our entire lives.

As a community we do need to dogpile the abusers as best we can, imo.

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tincho (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

comentario eliminado

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lighteye (71) · 8 years ago

I wouldn't know the reason why all this started, but it would be nice to stop now

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4 votes

pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago

Bernie seems to have a history of doing this... way back to the beginning. Look at his history. Steemit is like an open book.

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j3dy (60) · 8 years ago

flags are there, power is nice to have and having your voice nuke other voices is pretty appealing to some :)

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

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happyphoenix (66) · 8 years ago

I only minnow so... I can help only with resteemed. :)

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

Thanks for getting involved. Thanks for spreading the word. Every little action adds up to massive action.

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4 votes

pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago (edited)

You will always have my vote/support. The more people who stand up to bullies the better it will be for everyone.

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

@fyrstikken should be delegating his steem power to all those that support him and vote for his witness. More whales also need to delegate to good curators if they really want to make things better. If any of these people truly want to help the community they would delegate more. No reason to complain, we have all the tools we need to make things better in our hands. Even small time people like us need to delegate when we are not curating content. The more human eyes reviewing content for quality, the better off the community will be as a whole. Lets not complain and feel we are entitled to anything, lets come together with the amazing tools we have at our disposal!

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j3dy (60) · 8 years ago

:) the best comment here :) since it's unrelated to the topic :)

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

Its totally related to the issue at hand and encourages people to be more proactive about the situation.

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pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago

So, Help Us. What are your suggestions on which tools to use for small fish dealing with Fat SP Whale bullies? New people need this kind of information.

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

This article talks about the concentration of power, delegating voting power and bandwidth deals with this issue. If larger account holders are concerned with this issue they can delegate that power to many smaller account holders. @curie has a post about this and why its important. I would rather see steempower delegated to many users rather than to just one big account like curie but at least they are doing something that actually gets human eyes on content and involves many people. https://steemit.com/curation/@curie/ways-to-support-curie-hardfork-18-edition

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

Whale voting, even by delegation proxy, starves the little guys.
The only valid reasoning I have seen for delegation is for steemit account to get by on the delegation rather than give actual sp to new accounts.

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

Here is an example of how it helps https://steemit.com/curation/@curie/ways-to-support-curie-hardfork-18-edition
I would be interested in the data and examples you have about this starving the little guy that creates quality original content.

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

I don't propose that not starving the little guy gets us 'better' content.
In fact, it will probably get us less polished work.

However, I'm on the side of the 1 million $100 investors rather than the 10 $100,000 investors.
The math is also showing that buying, holding, and not mining is a sure fire loss of 9,5% per year once we stop pumping.

In the 6 months prior to the whale voting experiment it was impossible for the little guys to come here, blog, and gain enough traction to matter in the math.

One could only hope to get hit with whale largess.

Curie was instituted to mitigate against this fact, but only for folks that were willing to post 'non-controversial, non-Steemit related' content.

So, curie is in favor of free speech but only so long as it meets the requirements, they are not rewarding the folks that add flavor to the mix, just the folks that add vanilla, imo.

I called that out, partly for this reason: If the crips or the bloods came into your neighborhood and began to dole out favors to some and punishments(in this case ignore lists) to others would you join in their reindeer games, or denounce them?
Do you think having gang members banding together to rule the roost will up your home's value, or decrease it?

Does this help you gain perspective?

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

I have only been here for a short time so I appreciate the perspective from a more veteran member. I still think having a strong core community with an even delegated distribution of voting power and bandwidth would deal with the gang scenario you mentioned. This would also eliminate the need for curie type profiles.

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

That is, in effect, what happened when the whales made the other whales stop voting, the little guys started getting fed.
The playing field got leveled, a little.

The folks that were against that lined up on the delegate sp side so that they could skirt the rules and put the guilds on the blockchain where it would be harder to detect/less visible for the average users.

If the whales delegate all their power, again, we will go back to what was before, only those fortunate enough to have gotten splashed with whale droppings will matter in the math.

We have already seen what happens when the little guys have a reason to swarm, our numbers start to grow, rather than stagnate.
This drained reward pool has put a damper on that, but I got hope we will come back from these poor decisions.

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

What a mess, I guess I joined at the worst possible time. Its still a nice way to get things out to the public regardless of the current situation.

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

Yes, when the growing pains get swamped in the feed things will be better.
Either way, the coin it's self seems sound.

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tuck-fheman (74) · 8 years ago

It is creating a culture of fear.

Death threats = not culture of fear.

Desire to remove people who make death threats = culture of fear.

Do I have it down correctly?

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

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tuck-fheman (74) · 8 years ago

He is a man with a passionate heart for justice. If you had spent any length of time interacting with him you would understand that his motivations are good.

I'm sorry, I just can't read any further. You're likely his sockpuppet, which is hilarious.

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

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berniesanders (77) · 8 years ago

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

YOUR FLAGS ARE WORTHLESS!!!!! DUMBASS TROLL.

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8 votes

j3dy (60) · 8 years ago

why are you throwing the flags again, and measuring your sticks I mean stakes?

Can't you stop trashing this place, It's like you pick a new victim each month and are out to make people believe flags aren't bad, because there are so many of them already, so it's no foul, like in soccer matches a red card is not bad, you can have 50 red cards :D I'd say you'd make a bad arbiter

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zoef (64) · 7 years ago

I was reading this just now and i just needed to comment. If fyrstikken is a community builder why was i kickef from the discord channel for disagreeing with one of his idees? That does not seem the way of a community builder. That looks more like the way of a person who can not cope with criticism on his views.

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screenname (66) · 8 years ago

This post has been ranked within the top 25 most undervalued posts in the first half of Apr 06. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $0.34 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.

See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Apr 06 - Part I. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.

If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.

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ebryans (66) · 8 years ago

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pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago

Maybe Bernie and gang want all whales to lose their voting powers for acting irresponsible to Steemit community? It's the worst message anyone could send to a growing community.

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fingolfin (61) · 8 years ago

So how would you recommend dealing with plagiarism/identity theft if flagging were removed?

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ebryans (66) · 8 years ago (edited)

Hi there @fingolfin, many thanks for stopping by to comment. Much appreciated and followed you for your interest in such matters.
Plagiarism is relatively simple - cheetah does a job. The community should be able to cause anything else to be seen for what it is. What irks me more is a crap photo and a single line and it gets ridiculous rewards - plagiarism takes more effort than that!
Identity theft is a very real issue but I have never seen it raise its head on steemit. Are there instances which you can point to because it is an insidious reality on the web at large?
The real issue is the stake weight and its issuance followed by its abuse. A flag from me has little consequence. A whale flag once took 90% off the value of one of my posts which was a community initiative from a dedicated contest account. There was no rationale.
Were there a proper decentralisation of influence, we would find that flags and downvotes became a Darwinian legacy.
As it is the creators of value on the platform receive zero recognition. Flags and downvotes are an unwelcome presence in any medium which contains the name 'Social'.
I hope that gives you a sufficient answer - please let me know if not!

PS A quick look at @seablue's message to me below should tell you all you need to know,

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fingolfin (61) · 8 years ago

Cheetah does part of the job, but the large majority of plagiarism is found by users, not cheetah. There has to be some sort of mechanism to take away the monetary rewards for people stealing content and attempting to pass it off as their own.

I'm fine is this isn't through flagging but there has to be something in place to deal with it. If not, steemit will just be flooded with stolen content because who cares if you get caught as long as it still pays out.

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ebryans (66) · 8 years ago

Plagiarism needs policing, I agree. The problem is that the existence and use of flags has a way bigger negative impact than the existence of plagiarism.
If I see plagiarism or an attempt to call a photo and a line passing off as a post, I simply write a comment to that effect. Were there a system of flagging which had no post payout effect but earmarked a post as plagiarism, would you follow/vote for that content?
I would not.
A reduction in volume and increase in value of votes would be beneficial too - I have suggested 20 with the option (if your vote value is under 5 cents) to have 5 doubles and 10 singles. Min weight of vote 50% and 25% on a comment.
How many posts do you really read per day?
When these conversations start, it always comes back to the indefensible stake weight - nobody seems to have the will to repair the primary cause of dysfunction.

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fingolfin (61) · 8 years ago

Unfortunately as someone who spends a lot of time looking for plagiarized posts the majority of them aren't found until after they have already racked up a nice payment.

I think most people wouldn't actively vote on something that was stolen content but most of these posts rack up the rewards before they are caught. I think there should be some way to remove those rewards and right now that way is flagging. I'd be happy to support some other system if it offered the same potential for removing those payouts.

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j3dy (60) · 8 years ago (edited)

luckily we have a week to unvote those "bad" posts :|

My one experience with that was when I was looking the trending page a few months ago, there was a youtube video, making 30$ at that moment my account was worth that much, I got into a conversation outlined my thoughts, said I wa workig for 2 months, maybe next time he should at least bring in some context, he was like well you are butthurt, so fuck off, so I did and I will probably never return, I know how to watch videos :D the only person loosing is the spammer in the end, but the problem is the "mining" of rewards and the blind voting :) 200 votes 20 views, 30 payout ?!?!?!

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ebryans (66) · 8 years ago

This is a very cool conversation @fingolfin because I hear you and you hear me. I doubt whether there are many who would disagree.
One of the important things which you have said and which I mentioned about the HF17 changes, is the capacity of whales to open innumerate accounts for the price of 1 steem and post via bots. This content is bound to be of a pretty poor quality. The delegated SP will invite wholesale intra-voting and the subsequent redistribution of steem. It will 'appear' that the platform is decentralising when it will in fact be continuing upon its path of centralisation.
The new marketing team is looking to provide a repository of suggestions. The concerns which we share should be posted there and catalogued within a pile of similar concerns and suggestions for their remedy.
A flag for plagiarism (though can be subjective) is a valid flag. If a whale posts plagiarism, my flag is benign. What then?
If a whale flags for purely strategic reasons, that flag cost should be put back upon the issuer of the flag.
One person. one account would make life a lot easier and put an end to a great deal of school yard antics.
Have you written any long form suggestions? I would like to read them if you have.

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j3dy (60) · 8 years ago

humm m maybe not voting for it like it was intended, by the way flagging wasn't in the original concept, there is no payout if nobody vests with you, if everybody spent their time and voted on the good content they have seen, reposts would get naturally segregated and slowly chocked out, then a new acc and another, basically the idea behind flagging is to combat yeah:

payout,
sybil attacks - multi account schemes,
maybe to nuke reputation but that is seriously retarded
it's basically a server wide mute button :D

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seablue (63) · 8 years ago

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pitterpatter (62) · 8 years ago (edited)

Wow. you touched a nerve. How interesting. Like you have any power to do anything. Hmmmm WAIT I guess we all have power to come up against SP Whale abuse. Our voices and standing up for what is right for Steemit community.

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