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biophil (66) · 8 years ago

I always did think that restrictive license seemed pretty un-dannish.

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baah (61) · 8 years ago

I honestly never pegged @dan to be that radical so reading that it was resonating positively with me as I have argued that IP is a crime against humanity since I first reasoned it in my early twenties, it's immoral to copyright and patent and rely on violent enforcement of the state to uphold that selfishness, and both are spiraling out of control and soon are going to come to a conclusion. It's driven exclusively by greed, to monetize an idea, a concept, what good can come out of that?!

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5 votes

biophil (66) · 8 years ago

Yeah, dan is decently radical. :)

I think the voluntaryst anti-IP stance is intriguing. You have a community that, on the one hand, upholds personal property rights as inalienable. But on the other hand, they demand that intellectual property, if public, must be commonly-owned (of course, trade secrets are fine - but everybody agrees on that one). I see how both of these are logical conclusions of the non-violence principle, but they also look (from the outside) to be a bit at odds with one another. This is neither the time nor the place to discuss it, I suppose. I'll write a blog about it one day.

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voluntary (54) · 8 years ago

re: Voluntaryist approach to infinitely reproducible works (ie: IP) - enlightened consumers are free to consciously choose to support their favoured content creators.

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ash (73) · 8 years ago

not really. bitshares was restricted too in the beginning

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the-future (68) · 8 years ago

Now, you are not afraid anymore because you know it! :D

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dhimmel (65) · 5 years ago

Ah yes. Also can see history at https://scribe.steemian.info/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fsteempeak.com%2Fsteem%2F%40dantheman%2Fmaking-steem-really-open-source

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bleujay (70) · 8 years ago

Thank you @neoxian. Very much appreciate the link.

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freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

tyvm for that link!!

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karenmckersie (74) · 8 years ago

Thanks for the link !👍

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personz (66) · 8 years ago

Thank you, was going to go looking for it 🙂

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Undeleted: https://phist.steemdata.com/history?identifier=https%3A%2F%2Fsteemit.com%2Fsteem%2F%40dantheman%2Fmaking-steem-really-open-source

furion (70) · 8 years ago

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7 votes

dwinblood (73) · 8 years ago (edited)

Thanks for the clarification. Now that you have resigned know there are those of us here that enjoy talking to you about things outside of steemit. Philosophy, Anarchy, Coding and other things. I am one of those that would be interested in seeing you at least stick around on the platform to engage in stuff like that with people like myself. I view this project as more than the code, and the money. It is also about the people and the ideas. You can still be involved with that. If there is some conflict of interest preventing it then I can understand that, but I did want to at least express that I for one would enjoy interaction with you. I find it personally valuable. If not here then it'd be nice to somehow know where you might be engaged/interacted with in the future. My email is simply my handle here at gmail.

As to the open source nature and what you wrote here. That seemed to be integral to what this project was being designed as. This is therefore concerning a number of people that see this as being different.

We market it as decentralized. In a way it is, but as soon as you lock it behind patents, and other barriers you are adding a degree of centralization/gate keeping back into the design.

Good luck, best wishes, and thanks for posting.

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13 votes

jianjolly (47) · 8 years ago

OP wasn't about "decentralization" but about its being open-source.

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full-steem-ahead (65) · 8 years ago

Yes, that's true @jianjolly. However, dwinblood has a point that by imposing IP in the form of licenses those in charge of the licenses are a centralized force which is contrary to the "open" of OpenSource software.

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dwinblood (73) · 8 years ago

It is also contrary to referring to the place a decentralized. It is only partially decentralized. The blocks themselves would still be decentralized but the actual platform would not.

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demotruk (69) · 8 years ago

That interpretation is the same as mine and pretty straight forward. It's plain that Steemit Inc has special power over the network as a result of this clause, since witnesses cannot freely fork without permission in writing.

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6 votes

sigmajin (65) · 8 years ago (edited)

IYO do/did these provisions in the license really have teeth? The idea of steemit inc actually litigating a claim of copyright infringement against a witness running an unauthorized version seems pretty far fetched to me. Was it ever discussed what would happen if someone just said "fork your license im running what i want"?

At best, it would be very expensive, very drawn out, and terrible PR. At worst it would be an asian land war like RIAA is fighting with filesharing.... constantly scanning the network for new witnesses running unauthorized versions and pursuing them.

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5 votes

sneak (64) · 8 years ago

The idea of steemit inc actually litigating a claim of copyright infringement against a witness running an unauthorized version seems pretty far fetched to me.

Me too.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

Downvoted in disagreement with the reward and also because Dan said that he wouldn't be posting or voting any more (and he did not specify a particular account but simply referred to himself). Perhaps he felt this issue was important enough to ignore that statement he made, but it wasn't necessary to self-upvote it as well. On the content, I agree entirely, so in that sense, thank you for posting this, Dan. Good to know that your future projects will be MIT/BSD. (Please also consider a patent clause.) Best of luck with those.

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lukestokes (75) · 8 years ago

Thanks for posting this Dan. My friend Ben was concerned about the license 8 months ago. Seems he wasn't alone. I just wish you all could have worked out your differences instead of leaving the project completely.

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8 votes

kafkanarchy84 (74) · 8 years ago

What license are people speaking about here? I'm in the dark.

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lukestokes (75) · 8 years ago

The post is still on the blockchain. The license in question is the Steemit license which has some restrictions in it. It's been an ongoing debate and concern since the beginning.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 8 years ago

Thank you, Luke. Now I see why he left.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago

He did not say that is why he left. It seems likely given the timing that it was somehow related, but going beyond that is speculation. Elsewhere ned has stated that dan was the one who came up with the license in the first place. Okay, maybe he changed his mind but that's a little bit different from just being outraged over it.

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kafkanarchy84 (74) · 8 years ago

That's true.

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lukestokes (75) · 8 years ago

It's a theory, anyway.

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full-steem-ahead (65) · 8 years ago

It's a theory with some pretty compelling evidence straight from @dan's fingers! I don't see @ned or @sneak refuting it... yet.

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sneak (64) · 8 years ago (edited)

Dan made an unambiguous statement in his resignation thread about specifically why he chose to leave. It doesn't mention the license.

It's possible you have the cause and effect inverted.

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lukestokes (75) · 8 years ago

Agreed. I've been reading through Dan's comments, and he didn't say all that much, so this post was speaking volumes at the time it was published. As I said in reply to @kafkanarchy84: It's just a theory.

@full-steem-ahead: here's the refutation you mentioned wanting to see.

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full-steem-ahead (65) · 8 years ago

Your link for refutation is bad. Is it appears to be a link to a comment in this article, is that right Luke?

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lukestokes (75) · 8 years ago

Yes, I was linking to your comment about not seeing a refutation from @sneak while replying to his refutation. Make sense?

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full-steem-ahead (65) · 8 years ago

If my current confusion is cleared up by you informing me that @jianjolly == sneak then kewlness, otherwise I'm still confused.

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lukestokes (75) · 8 years ago

Maybe this will help. If you see something different, that would be odd.

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phibetaiota (59) · 8 years ago

@dantheman we @phibetaiota
are exceedingly interested in you continuing
Open Source work. Please contact us when you're
ready to go to the next level. We are more than capable
in assisting you in your endeavors.
~The Management
Imgur

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mufflerlungs (36) · 8 years ago (edited)

What does it matter? A good old fashioned lawsuit would only bring attention to this fading community on it's birthday. Who cares? do what you feel. This is blockchain. Closed vs open source is like alcohol vs weed. Choose your own adventure.

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6 votes

jacobts (65) · 8 years ago (edited)

Thank you for posting Dan. Respect for all you have done, and will do. Don't be a stranger. We all appreciate you. As far as the politics is concerned, it's above my paygrade. All the best.

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5 votes

engagement (54) · 8 years ago

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Reveal Comment

jacobts (65) · 8 years ago (edited)

no worries bot. i was speaking for humans. ;)

ps, we engaged! yay.

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engagement (54) · 8 years ago

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Reveal Comment

jacobts (65) · 8 years ago

And I was not speaking for you. Just myself and those that know in spite of any difference of opinion with Dan, realize he is a big part of it existing in the first place. Take care word, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/engagement.

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virtualgrowth (72) · 8 years ago

It is time to let the code be free and make a commitment to only produce BSD or MIT licensed code going forward.

Agree we need to get coded blockchains free from government, control, and regulation to truly free people, minds, and actions.

Happy to hear you will only write "free" code and look forward to your great ideas and philosophies that many of us love.

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14 votes

tyroan (53) · 8 years ago

Awesome comment! Might I add that Money is simply Proof Of Work... and @dan should have plenty of it by now, not to have to go back to a day job. If he DOESN'T stick around on his own platform and game theory for himself a GREAT BIG CHUNK of this network, then I will abandon this ship...
In other words, Steem is @dan 's ship, he said so himself. Whether he works at SteemIt Inc. or not should not stop him from using one of the best Platforms out there. He could quickly become THE Captain of this ship/platform... It's a Pirate Ship afterall. SO... if HE can't come onto this network with a new fresh identity and become a SteemStar overnight, I'll be worried. If he leaves it altogether, then we're riding on the Titanic. IMHO...
The following graphic sums up my category...
Imgur

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full-steem-ahead (65) · 8 years ago

Richard Stallman has crusaded for truly "free" (as in unencumbered and unrestricted) software for decades now, and has written a ton about the implications of non-free software and how it stifles innovation and restricts personal freedom.

However, the status quo "business thinking" is you need to restrict how your (software) creation can be used, by who and what restrictions must be followed in order to capitalize on the invention. If you can't maintain control, you loose ownership of the invention and any profits that arise from it. IP is an antiquated system that can't exist without the centralized power of The State to arbitrate disputes and favor those which The State deems worthy.

It's tricky to monetize software without IP. Perhaps the problem lies in how people (i.e. venture capitalists) think about software and what they consider valid compensation for producing it. Think of how many inventions would NOT exist today if every widget ever created had IP restrictions. I'm thinking of things like gears, wheels, but the list of common objects we all take for granted and use in our everyday lives would be a lot fewer if the wheel had IP restrictions and was "owned" by some greedy bastard that wanted a monopoly and ALL profits of every device made that used a wheel in its'
design.

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virtualgrowth (72) · 8 years ago

Thank you. Yes the Hollistic Mindset & Open Intelligence (and understanding)!

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inertia (73) · 8 years ago

Yeah, I write under CC0 1.0 Universal (CC0 1.0) for the same reasons:

For example: https://github.com/inertia186/radiator

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12 votes

freebornangel (73) · 8 years ago

You go, @Dan!!

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thedegensloth (59) · 8 years ago (edited)

Oh wow man, see its a very tricky area when you start talking should thing be allowed to be worked on in public. I'm all for it in most cases but i think in this case anyone pushing the issue is really wanting to see a clone and to see how many can pop up.

Yes for a freedom standpoint sure sounds like a good idea we could see some amazing things coming out but as i see it right now. There is no real need for it being open source. It should be focusing on other things the vast majority of the public really don't care if its open source. Everyone really mostly cares is it secure.

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7 votes

tyroan (53) · 8 years ago

High Security can most certainly be achieved through open source.
"get enough eyeballs on it, no bug is invisible."

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thedegensloth (59) · 8 years ago

Yeah get enough eyes or hands on anything and its possible but still.
There is likely bigger concerns at the moment.
But i do understand what you're getting at.

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paolobeneforti (70) · 8 years ago

Thanx for this post, even if you had to delete it. Thx for the link in it too.
The funny thing is to see all these young geek investors that don't understand that free licenses and many competitors in a new market create bigger earnings for everyone. In this case, more freedom and more money would walk together.

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brindleswan (59) · 8 years ago

Hi Dan. Really curious as to what you're up to now. Just wrote about your pre-Steemit Mutual Aid Society ideas:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@brindleswan/dan-larimer-s-pre-steemit-muxer-plan
Hope you'll show up on Friday's Beyond Bitcoin mumble session and give us a hint.

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azfix (65) · 8 years ago

I agree open source is the way to go, but profit motive overrules the benefit and inovation to the many. If pharmaceuticals adopted an open source type mentality just think how much better the world would be.

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bitcoinparadise (67) · 8 years ago

Gotcha Dan. Thank you for opening up more on the situation and yes, I think the licence should be opened up as well

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charlie777pt (64) · 8 years ago

Tks, it makes things clear. :)

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steemitqa (64) · 8 years ago (edited)

Why delete a post if it's on the blockchain ?
for the lulz ?

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dan (69) · 8 years ago

Because I was asked to.

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cryptojoy.com (58) · 8 years ago

Lol!

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knircky (73) · 8 years ago

Dan, thank you. That makes sense. It is very sad that you have to leave. Now it makes a little more sense. Violence sucks, yet it works as is demonstrated by your departure. I don't know if I can stand behind this project in this form and without you.

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wingz (65) · 8 years ago

Seems like there's an undercurrent of politics going on. Fight it, you don't get offered freedom and liberty. You push for it.

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steemitqa (64) · 8 years ago

Thanks, for clarification. Who asked you to if I may ask ?

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baah (61) · 8 years ago

I bet it was that fucker @ned!

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steemitqa (64) · 8 years ago

It was @blocktrades here it seems .

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baah (61) · 8 years ago

There I go calling ned a fucker again and looking like a total douche!
My sincere apologies @ned!
It was that fucker @blocktrades! :P

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noisy (67) · 8 years ago (edited)

Can our friends from Golos technically speaking can open licence of golos?

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tibonova (61) · 8 years ago

I don't think so since they're licensing it and don't own the license.

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rossenpavlov (69) · 8 years ago

The truth will set us free!

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tibonova (61) · 8 years ago

I will never again write software that isn't BSD / MIT from the day I conceive it to the day it is released.

It's good to hear that. I cannot see any point why anyone voluntarily add code to a project that they cannot use later freely. Every line lost because of that fact is lost value.

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tibonova (61) · 8 years ago

Would you build on/based on it if it would be free?

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digit (57) · 8 years ago

This whole ordeal seams such a shame. I don't understand all of it but I wonder for the community. You can feel the turmoil when you open the page. Seems like the bad guys are winning and that nothing can be done to stop it.

Everyone take a breath and wonder what we all can do when we come here to make things feel better for everyone. Or people will leave and/or come and not stay.

The flagging whales should be leaving, they are not wanted here is what I think

Positive to everyone including the whales, who seem to need it the most

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demotruk (69) · 8 years ago

Why did you introduce this clause in the first place?

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tibonova (61) · 8 years ago

I think they wanted to protect ourselves from companies who already have communities. Now, Steem has its own, it's time to make it free. If Steemit would loose the community because it, then it does something wrong and doesn't deserve its users.

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skystruck (25) · 7 years ago

Where is his post where he talked about leaving Steemit?

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