The Sunday Purge #4: The Issue With Self-Voting / Shitposters - Circlejerking - Collusion

in steem •  7 years ago 

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The Issue With Self-Voting

Self-Voting is such a sensitive subject to talk about because everybody’s doing it from minnows to whales including the dolphins, but some issues need to be addressed.

From my point of view, Steem is built more on the philosophy Give, and you shall receive thus your SP should mostly be used for the good of the community not as an ROI generator but I’ll get more into that later.

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Self-Voting on Comments

I’ve seen this everywhere on the platform, and it breaks my heart to know that some people are upvoting themselves 100%, sometimes that worth even more than $1, on a one-line comment when other people are barely making that on a valuable post.

An idea would be to disable the function of voting on comments entirely but I feel like voting on the comments from a post is a healthy habit as long as the commenter provides value through that comment. I’ve seen people getting $5 on a “Nice post” comment, and that is not the type of behavior that should be promoted.


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Maybe disable the function of self-voting on comments would be the solution but that’s not always good since sometimes upvoting your comment is a needed action. Either because maybe you are saying something of value and you want the author to see your comment or because you’re caught up in a flag war with someone, and you don’t want them to make your comments “disappear.”

There are not that many valid reasons why someone would self-vote their comment, most of the people are doing it just for ROI and from my point of view is a destructive behavior since they are taking that money from the reward pool, money that could’ve been redistributed to someone more worthy.

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Self-Voting on Posts

This is a whole other topic to talk about since it’s a lot more sensitive than the voting on the comments which is more or less abuse since most of the people don’t provide any value through that comment.

For most of the people this is not a form of abuse because they are providing value through their post so self-voting it for exposure either if they have SP or not is not a malicious action. The issue is addressed to those that have some power but are not providing any value.


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This is also a sensitive subject because a lot of people are posting updates for their projects and are voting them and in my opinion that is a good thing because this way they can reward themselves for the work put in those projects.

But the real problem is when someone has power and they self-vote themselves for shitty content. I’ve seen people giving themselves $10 on every post, five times per day on shitty market updates. For fuck sake, if I want to look at the price of the top 10 coins I can access coinmarketcap myself, I don’t need to see your screenshot.

The idea is that if you have money invested in SP or you have earned delegation you have every right to upvote yourself since those are your money. If you also upvote other people based on the principle Give and you shall receive it’s even better.

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Collusion

Collusion is the nice term used by @Transisto, but I will call it circlejerking. There’s a thin line between circlejerking and supporting a friend, but if you look at it with the right kind of eyes, you will see it.

Source

For an exchange of votes between two Steemians to be circlejerking, collusion there has to be met a particular pattern. If both of the individuals upvote each other the exact value in SBD even if one has more SP, and they are doing it a specific number of times every day, then it is collusion. This can be considered self-voting but let me explain it further.

Let’s say that Bob has a vote of $10, and Jon one of $5. Bob is making two posts per day that Jon is upvoting at 100% every time. But Jon is creating a lot more posts per day, and Bob is upvoting only one at 100% per day, or maybe two at 50% then it is collusion because a pattern like this cannot be a pure coincidence.

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Conclusion

Self-Voting is a vast subject, and since this is a decentralized platform, it cannot be stopped only by flagging maybe. But this is not abuse unless the Steemian is self-voting himself huge figures, is providing no value and has no other projects.

In the end, I have nothing against self-voting blog posts that are at least decent since they are your money and I’m totally against self-voting comments most of the time.

This subject is too big for me to cover it in only one post, and I don't want to create a TLDR, but the way you see the matter is mostly subjective because the value is something subjective.

Also, if you want to check out my other Sunday Purge posts from the series feel free to give them a read at the links below.

The Sunday Purgem #1 - Spammers - Plagiarists - Cireclejerks

The Sunday Purge #2: The solution to spamming and vote buying - Manual Curation?

The Sunday Purge #3: Is Flagging the Solution to Abuse?

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  ·  7 years ago (edited)

I would guess, it shouldn't be hard to put some additional logic & restrictions into code, such as, you can only self upvote 'so much', or 'so many times' and for example, the higher voting power you have, less you can self upvote.

When poor soul like me self upvote here and there I only get 4 cents and this may be a little bit different than when someone self vote for several $ or more.

Especially for minnows, this may be the only way to get a cent or two :-)

I get what you mean, but the idea is that this is decentralized thus something like that cannot happen because it would be a way of censorship.

Self-Voting is of almost no help to minnows; they should focus on community, that's the only way for them to get something. ;)

there definitely is no easy answers to the issue of self-voting. I think that your approach of using some common sense on not only if you're going to upvote a post but by how much needs to be employed.

You'll never make everyone happy on this. I personally operate on my own sense of ethics on the matter. I will upvote myself, which really doesn't add much to the post since I have a very small stake but, I don't upvote until a few hours after I post to allow others to claim the curation rewards.

Agreed, making everyone happy is impossible. I only upvote the blog posts which isn't that much either. Hmm, if you vote right when you post you get no curation rewards as far as I know but your way of doing it is good too. ;)

If you upvote right away the curation rewards goes to the author, which of course is you. By waiting and letting others get the curation rewards then you add to your rewards payout after having shared.

That's pretty much what I do - But I wait 'til day 6 to upvote my own - is that worth less than doing it earlier. ?

i think once you get past the first hour or two.. it doesn't make much difference.

There is a difference between people that are writing good content, people that think they're writing good content and people that know their content sucks but still upvote it.

In the ideal world, the first one should be upvoted, the second group can be excused for upvoting and the third group is polluting this platform.
Just the same as a dictatorship, when leaders will do whatever they can to cling on to power and don't have the majority's well being as an ideal.

Yeah, that's a great analogy and point of view. But it's hard to put people in those categories since the value is mostly subjective, there's no way to quantify value since it would destroy it.

Currently with self voting you can double your SteemPower in just 180 days (aprox) when you have more than 100 dollars worth of SteemPower. Jerry went over the numbers and used it in his video as a tip on how to get rich on steem. But indeed it is damaging for the core of Steemit, the social platform build upon the blockchain. You get posters that basically copy paste an article from somewhere else, upvote it and don't even glance at the comment section.

Jerry knows nothing. He's just a marketer trying to make a buck on Steem.

Yes I am shure, but his tactics on how to exploit the platform work most of the time. He mainly adresses inverstors, but these are the people that wanna see their investment getting worth something. I am starting with nothing and frankly, just for fun. And basically stay because of the long term possibilities this platform has to offer.

He doesn't seem to have the right mentality. Investors are making a shitload of money from the platform anyway; they don't need to exploit it. If you're thinking about it, we're all more or less, investors since we all have some SP and some time spent here.

You got it right, post for yourself, for fun and didn't expect anything. If you have expectations and they are not met, you will feel it like a failure. Do it because you like to do it. ;)

I think Jerry Banfield has some form of autism - that's not meant as a criticism - it's just the obsessive way he seems to have invested his entire 'self' in steemit and nothing else. I unfollowed him recently - he does my head in!

you used the correct term in regards to banfield.. exploit.. exactly what is not needed in a witness. Which is why I will never give him a witness vote.

@guyfawkes4
really good post.i like your post

I do upvote my posts because I think they are worth it ! tbh.

(rarely - if ever, - my comments - that I can think of).

I came across this yesterday - with my own comment! - the first time since I have been here, and this REALLY pissed me off...

...and the first time I have used the flag function!

@steemcleaners were notified of course.

Have you ever experienced this?

https://steemit.com/blog/@lucylin/annoying-plagiarsim-getting-paid

I upvote my posts too but never the comments.

Nothing similar happened to me and let's hope that it will not happen in the future either. @Steemcleaners should do the trick. ;)

I upvote my posts too - not comments - if I upvoted all my xomments I'd have precious little SP left to share around!

NB - it's not clear from yr article that you do actually upvote yr own posts... you only get that from the comments.

I'm so tempted to upvote this for a laff. But i'll resist!