Have Fun With Your Centralized Dumpster Fire. This shit is not even worth milking.

futuremind (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

Great points you raise here bro,
I think it's human nature to experience moments of feeling like "things aren't fair", and that applies to everything, not just Steem. The harsh reality is life is not fair, and in a collective sense, humanity only needs to take a look in the mirror to see the source. Competition based capitalism is the world we have created, and continue to sustain.

Sometimes I get a little down on Steem, sometimes I feel like my post rewards are not high enough, but then I see people who've been here just as long as me, and probably put in an equal amount of effort, if not more in some cases, and I am making more than them. That is enough for me to take a step back and say "I am grateful."

To take it a step further, some people put effort into quality content on platforms like Facebook and make nothing.

I have a family member who's been peeping my Steem account lately and thinking about joining, and was blown away when I showed them my earned assets over the course of two years. It's not a ton of money here in NY, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to just stack it for the future. The point is, even if it's only a few cents a post, that is a few cents more than one will make on Facebook. In my opinion, that's reason enough to use Steem, while keeping gratitude in the forefront.

One last thing, engagement kind of sucks lately, and I'm willing to bet it has to do with that sense of entitlement. Comments do take a while to compose and think about, so it's understandable to a degree, but failing to engage and build relationships on some level with others is negating the intrinsic use case of Steem altogether, so the complainers need to check themselves! (imo) So, lower stakes can do those engage tokens and make alts to pump up low cost SE tokens and reward with those as a work around. Everyone knows they're getting some bilpcoin when the comment on futuremind's posts, and sometimes I'm in a good mood and blast all my Steem VP on comments too, who cares.. Less focus on the rewards, more focus on the revolutionary aspect of Steem! ~~ok done rambling~~

$0.09

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

The harsh reality is life is not fair, and in a collective sense, humanity only needs to take a look in the mirror to see the source.

Some people's idea of fairness boggles the mind. It has nothing to do with work or quality.

To take it a step further, some people put effort into quality content on platforms like Facebook and make nothing.

I think the major idea is that most people can't get their actual friends and family over here from Facebook, so they feel like they deserve something out of any effort they apply here. If it wasn't for rewards, they'd be gone.

I appreciate the substantive reply!

!ENGAGE 50

futuremind (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

I love psychology, and I agree that the fairness concept has nothing to do with work or quality. I mentioned to someone earlier here that I've been in contemplation about hierarchies and the nature of reality. Specifically human nature, and comparisons between intelligent organisms vs non-intelligent, or at least what we perceive as non intelligent. I won't get into it much here, but I'm thinking about composing a post on the topic.

I think the major idea is that most people can't get their actual friends and family over here from Facebook, so they feel like they deserve something out of any effort they apply here. If it wasn't for rewards, they'd be gone.

I think that is accurate, but many are on a mission to earn rewards regardless of who they can onboard, and I have seen some people come and go that really had no clue just how good they were doing here. 10-20 dollar posts in no time, and saying they felt their content was worth at least 50 dollars a post or it wasn't worth their time.. ok.. Did you make that kind of money somewhere else blogging to justify your deluded perception of what you "think" your time is worth? And are you considering what that Steem could potentially be worth in the future? Just my frame of thinking, sense of entitlement is rampant everywhere.

Thank you for the engage tokens @joshman, that was really kind. How does that command operate? It prompts a token transfer basically? I checked out the token on SE, and Asher's engagement league is super motivating, so this would certainly be a good way to support the project as I see it.

EDIT: No need for explanation, I read this awesome post.

$0.04

misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@futuremind you have received 50 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

thegoliath (66) · 5 years ago

Usually if you are only posting photos and other images, you should be aiming for a bigger amount of text to describe the image/s, the topic involved, your thoughts about it and what you were doing and anything useful to share with the people of Steemit so they can better know the information surrounding what you have posted about.

Videos can get away with less, but not 1 paragraph, hell even 2 paragraph's isn't always the best. At times I try to aim for at least 3 paragraphs with a video to give some description about what people can expect in the video and information about things I chose and such.

I do want to try aiming for more text overall when needed with videos of my gaming, but I do my best to ensure I edit it to not be a constant stream of me playing. I chop it up to get the more important and better parts of my footage.

And yes, people who post less and expect much more need to stop expecting that. I am all for seeing posts with nice amounts on them, especially if my posts do, but I don't expect I get heaps and heaps and just enjoy sharing what I post about.

Hey look, this comment is bigger than at least half the posts on Steemit. 🤣

$0.08

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Nice, it looks like you have a great philosophy in terms of creating value. I think the most successful people are those that seek to create value, not simply concentrate on extracting it.

Hey look, this comment is bigger than at least half the posts on Steemit. 🤣

Calling all voters, calling all voters.

!ENGAGE 50

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thegoliath (66) · 5 years ago

Well since new steem became about creating content, the posts I always aimed for quality but now it makes it more worthwhile as people upvote based on quality. So whenever possible, people should try writing more and making the post stand out or at least be a good post for people to enjoy.

Thanks for the engage too,mate.

$0.03

misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@thegoliath you have received 50 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

nickyhavey (69) · 5 years ago

High Effort on STEEM is High Effort on STEEM

That's all you need to say. I spend hours and hours in the music studio, invested in thousands worth of equipment, gear, learning production techniques... but that's got nothing to do with STEEM. I went travelling, spent thousands on flights, accommodation, activities but that's got nothing to do with STEEM.

When you then want to get something out of the platform/network/community, whatever you want to call it, you need to put the effort in to THAT specific platform/network/community. There's no magic formula, it just requires effort.

And if you can't/won't/don't put the effort in to make your posts (at the bare minimum) on STEEM then you can't expect to get much out of it.

Same with anything in life as well in that sense.

$0.07

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

When you then want to get something out of the platform/network/community, whatever you want to call it, you need to put the effort in to THAT specific platform/network/community. There's no magic formula, it just requires effort.

Well put my friend. Thanks for the input!

!ENGAGE 25

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nickyhavey (69) · 5 years ago

Ah I just logged in at the right time and saw this post. People who expect something for nothing grind my gears 😂

Skills on writing, video editing, music production can be taught to those that are willing to learn. Obviously you need some minimum level of initiative and creativity but a lot of it from there comes from drive and motivation.

The amount of times I've seen cookie cutter tracks and promo with just a link shared to the track as a tweet to be considered "marketing"...

Anyway, I'll stop myself there otherwise my phone keyboard will become less sensitive as the tapping on the letters from my thumbs become firmer with each word 😁

Thanks for the misterengagement.

misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@nickyhavey you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

slobberchops (74) · 5 years ago

This time around, you take a series of your art, photos, or collectibles, and write a narrative about each one.

This is the struggle we get with the Facebook crowd. They stick the pictures on, wait and wonder why nothing happens.

This is more like becoming a writer, a journalist. Some have it, some don't. Anyone can learn to do it, with varying degrees of success.

$0.06

pennsif (80) · 5 years ago

And YouTubers... We encourage people to come from other platforms, but of course VERY few will post to Steem/DTube/3Speak exclusively. They will just treat 3Speak etc as another place to spread their videos.

How should they be rewarded? The STEEM based effort is often no more than just clicking the upload button. At least hopefully they make some effort to add some text to describe what the video is about...

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

In those cases as a voter I look at how engaged they are on the platform. If they are merely just flyby cross-posting their content and not participating, I typically pass them by at the very least. In some cases when they are over-rewarded, and their replies to comments are non-existent, I'll downvote them.

@gardeningchannel hasn't made a YouTube video in a little while, but typically when he does, he is highly engaged in the comments. I personally want more rewards directed to creators such as this, and less to people passively attempting to monetize their content.

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pennsif (80) · 5 years ago

Yes agree on that differentiation.

@gardeningchannel is a good example of engaging. Pity he seems to have stopped posting at the moment.

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Even low effort has some value in my opinion, but I agree the expectation of some people is not realistic for what they are putting in.

!ENGAGE 25

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@slobberchops you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

metzli (64) · 5 years ago

Is performing quests on holy bread and kicking ass on splinterlands "high effort?" IDK but those games put more money in my STEEM accounts than my blogging does.

My posts take me an hour tops to type out, including editing, uploading and finding pictures on pixabay. Sometimes they get written even faster.

But... I spent a LOT of time perfecting my writing craft, I read lots of books, and I took lots of typing classes to get my thoughts out faster. Shouldn't I be making $300 bucks per post? That's how much I make when I freelance and write for companies.

Then go freelance. LOL

Posted via Steemleo

$0.06

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

I'm guessing most of your statements are rhetorical, but I will respond anyhow.

It has little to do with how much you could potentially make outside of STEEM, and everything to do with how much the reward pool can sustain on STEEM as a platform. If you scale up the STEEM price, I would expect the potential reward in dollar amount to scale up as well. As far as the reward pool covering your sunk costs, the potential is there, but the expectation shouldn't be.

As far as using STEEM as a medium of exchange for trading game items, if you can make more money doing that, more power to you. I buy and sell Splinterlands cards using steem all the time.

!ENGAGE 25

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@metzli you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

azircon (69) · 5 years ago (edited)

@metzli In my opinion all that you mentioned are high effort. I play splinterland too and I enjoy gaming in general.

However the question you ask is how you monetize it. It’s a valid question. To monetize anything you need a consumer. If your gaming content can earn $300 just like your freelance work, more power to you. But it is up to you to scale your time and effort accordingly. Right now there is no content out there in steemit that can pay $300 for an hour for your effort. So I am sorry to tell you that at this point in time this platform is unable to sustain your requirements.

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metzli (64) · 5 years ago

I believe in the blockchain. At this moment, I feel wealthy, but am not feeling wealthy enough to invest in my future (traditionally speaking, using fiat) my steem blockchain efforts are for me to reap the rewards of in 10 - 20 years. Let's hope I am right in investing my time here.

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khaleelkazi (75) · 5 years ago

Quality is definitely subjective. To some people, seeing a photo with 20 words describing it is a waste of STEEM upvotes.

To others, they appreciate the work that led up to the moment captured by the photographers lens.

Same goes for something like a drawing. Some see a simple scan of something you drew and think it’s worthless in terms of voting and others see an artful piece that took hours to plan & draw.

This is why communities, SE and SMT tokens are so important with an ecosystem like Steem. It allows the people who appreciate photography to reward quality photographs and the people who love art to reward quality art pieces.

Same for written content. Some people want a nice, handwritten piece of content that dives deeply into a topic of interest. But that’s not for everyone.

I think a lot of people (too many) on Steem value content based on word count rather than actual substance.

Posted via Steemleo

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

This is why we have upvotes and downvotes in the first place, and through them can express opposing viewpoints of valuation.

I definitely agree that SMTs in theory should change the game. If there is an SMT centered around low effort posting (twitter and instagram type posts), how those rewards are distributed is none of my concern in terms of being a holder of STEEM. The spirit of STEEM base chain is blogging, and in that spirit, highly rewarding a piece of content that doesn't meet a minimum of standards from a SEO perspective is a non-starter for myself and many stakeholders.

!ENGAGE 25

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@khaleelkazi you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago (edited)

If you think anyone here owes you a vote, you could not be more wrong. Stop acting so entitled, it's not becoming of you at all.

Nobody "owes me an upvote", but I certainly don't expect a DOWNVOTE unless I've VIOLATED SOME RULE.

If you want steemit to be an echo-chamber for whale sycophants, then, by al l means, DOWNVOTE any and all criticism.

However, if you want steemit to be a MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS, then we should try to let people who like stuff (even "low effort" posts like "word of the day" or "daily horoscope" posts or pictures of butterflies in their back yard) to express their opinions by upvoting.

Imagine if people could join pa.treon and REMOVE monthly subscription payments from content creators they DISAGREED WITH? Do you think this would IMPROVE the pa.treon platform?

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

I have never advocated for content-centric opinion-based downvotes, and feel it is a cowardly way express disagreement with an idea.

Thanks for the comment!

!ENGAGE 25

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

I have never advocated for content-centric opinion-based downvotes, and feel it is a cowardly way express disagreement with an idea.

I agree. Thanks for clearing that up.

misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@logiczombie you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
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$0.00

hone.heke (51) · 5 years ago

Are there really lots of people complaining about not receiving enough reward?I have not encountered that yet.

Or are they complaining about the over abundance of flags?I have encountered a lot of that lol

Stunning 1st photo btw, breathtaking.

Effort and Value are very subjective terms. What may be a huge effort for me may be nothing at all for you. What may hold significant value to me may be completely meaningless to you.

The value Steemit holds for me, is in the conversations and connections. I am sure others will derive value from other aspects. I feel a bit confused by your post.

5 votes

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Are there really lots of people complaining about not receiving enough reward?I have not encountered that yet.

Many times the discussion surrounds a low effort post that's been over-rewarded and downvoted.

Thanks! They are subjective, which is a vote can be made from -100 to 100%, so an individual evaluation can be made. This is how the system was designed.

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hone.heke (51) · 5 years ago

Wow thanks for the ENGAGE tokens : ) and the reply. So much to learn lol

Many times the discussion surrounds a low effort post that's been over-rewarded and downvoted.

I notice that some get a free pass with low effort posts. One turned up in my feed that had been resteemed the other day. It was just a one or two sentence question. I liked the question so I replied. I also looked at their other posts, all the same very low effort, but nobody gives a shit and he get a massive amount of engagement. I don't understand why people have a problem with some low effort posts and not others. I dont believe its just about the amount of rewards. More likely the ability to defend against attack.
Having said that i was having a look at mac-bot ? something like that, and I found an over abundance of accounts making up to 14 posts per day of what looked liked copy past with the same (probably alt accounts) voting. Well yea that needs to be sorted, but then he is also attacking that account tts which i think is a cool thing to use and would love to be able to call it the way you called the engage, especially with long posts.
Trying to dictate the quality of posts ! not such a good idea imho especial when it is not dealt with in an even handed way.

I guess reaching consensus on what needs to be flagged and what should not be flagged is difficult in a decentralized environment.

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

For sure, the focus tends to shift on what to go after, because there is only a limited amount of downvote power on an individual level, but there is also a limited number of people willing to use their downvotes at all. It can be a game of whack-a-mole.

If you see stuff that is particularly egregious, you can share it in the @steemflagrewards discord.

$0.12

hone.heke (51) · 5 years ago

Thanks for the info and the engage.
I singed up with Steem Engine and to my surprise i found I already had some Engage Tokens and six other tokens and I have no clue how or why i got them lol
No complaints just laughing at my own ignorance

anthonyadavisii (70) · 5 years ago

Thanks for the mention, brotha! I'll work on getting @trendthis on the mention exclude list as requested in about 30. (Feel free to remind me if I forget.)

If you are interested, I can set you up w a webhook like I did for @chops.token so people can see new @trendthis promoted content. lmk

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

!ENGAGE 25

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@hone.heke you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

hangin (73) · 5 years ago

I have nothing more to add to this i totally agree but maybe just one thing it is a shame and sad when i see a great post go unnoticed and then some post with a blurry photo and some broken English that doesn't even make sense and gets rewarded well..WTF..i don't get it 😣

5 votes

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

That's more of an indication of our collective failure as curators in both the positive and negative direction.

Thanks for the comment.

!ENGAGE 25

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hangin (73) · 5 years ago

It is a huge job to keep up with i do appreciate that 👍

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@hangin you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
View and trade the tokens on Steem Engine.

^{This tip bot is powered by witness untersatz!}

$0.00

hangin (73) · 5 years ago

Thanks guys much appreciated 👍

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davedickeyyall (73) · 5 years ago

Damn make me feel like using the #shitpost tag on all my posts

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Haha, if the shoe fits! Even #shitposts have some value, the question is how much? You've never struck me as someone with unrealistic expectations about it!

!ENGAGE 25

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misterengagement (55) · 5 years ago

@davedickeyyall you have received 25 ENGAGE from @joshman!
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$0.00

azircon (69) · 5 years ago (edited)

Josh, I agree with you on almost every points described in this post. But my main points are:

We don't really have to agree, this is not a platform of agreements. That is why there are upvote & downvote
My main issue with most of steemit "content creators" is the sense of entitlement. In my mind that is the source of the problem
Everyone in steemit is "content creator", please! Seriously? 80% of steemit is probably shitpost. Our friend @abh12345 can probably do some basic research and give us a better number. My point is, there will always be argument what is good and what is not so good, but there will always be content that we can all agree that it is "shitpost"
Similarly there can always be content that most of us can agree that it is stunning! That is the content we expect in "trending"
My final point to the greater community; please stop thinking about personal goals/earning for a bit and think about the platform as a whole. Because if you continue to do your old ways, there may not be a platform to complain/milk etc. On the contrary, if you stop and just think about the betterment of the platform, may be there is hope and then we all survive and thrive together.

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

We don't really have to agree, this is not a platform of agreements. That is why there are upvote & downvote

Of course, I can only speak for myself and in which direction I feel the winds are blowing.

My main issue with most of steemit "content creators" is the sense of entitlement

I agree with you there.

Everyone in steemit is "content creator", please! Seriously? 80% of steemit is probably shitpost.

I would argue that most of those shitposts are content, and have some value, just not very much. There's too prevalent a view that you should get points for just showing up. In that way it's a good representation of the current state of our society.

I fully agree with your last points, but I don't think it will change much until the platform matures and is viewed as an institution.

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

!ENGAGE 25

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azircon (69) · 5 years ago

I think that won’t work for me any more, as I think I have 1000+ tokens :) ...... right? @abh12345?

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helpiecake (54) · 5 years ago

Hello!

This post has been manually curated, resteemed
and gifted with some virtually delicious cake
from the @helpiecake curation team!

Much love to you from all of us at @helpie!
Keep up the great work!

Manually curated by @solominer.

_{@helpie is a Community Witness.}

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Thanks!

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techhype (44) · 5 years ago

Planktons voting less than 100%

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Thinking about how to properly size your nanovote is important.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

I'm just not sure "effort" is the best predictor of "value".

Is a book (or birthday-card) produced by a printing press (low effort), automatically "less valuable" than a hand-written-book (or birthday-card) produced with much higher effort?

Are you familiar with AXIOLOGY?

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Raw effort of course isn't the sole indicator of value.

I do value prior effort less, and express that through my voting. I prefer content created for the blockchain in terms of both post narrative and author engagement. I value simple digital reproductions of prior works, with little to no additional narrative (blogging), significantly less.

I am familiar with axiology as a general concept.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Sure, that makes sense.

But there are some that believe "low effort" posters should be stomped into negative rep.

And this is what I disagree with.

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

Every post made with honest intent has some value in my opinion.

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logiczombie (57) · 5 years ago

Sometimes I just want to share something I find interesting, without any commentary, in order to spark a conversation.

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steemitboard (66) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @joshman! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

You distributed more than 48000 upvotes. Your next target is to reach 49000 upvotes.

_{You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking}
_{If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP}

You can upvote this notification to help all Steem users. Learn how here!

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steem-ua (64) · 5 years ago

Hi @joshman!

Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 4.541 which ranks you at #2093 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has dropped 16 places in the last three days (old rank 2077).

In our last Algorithmic Curation Round, consisting of 89 contributions, your post is ranked at #6.

Evaluation of your UA score:

Some people are already following you, keep going!
The readers appreciate your great work!
Try to work on user engagement: the more people that interact with you via the comments, the higher your UA score!

Feel free to join our @steem-ua Discord server

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resteeme4 (7) · 5 years ago

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