In a client meeting today we were talking a little about various things including supply chain crush lading to oppression and poverty, effects of financial hardships of employees on business, bonuses, shareholders, engaging staff and financial literacy. There were a few other things too that escape me but that is enough for this purpose. My client is a bridge of sorts between management and manufacturing staff but is generally 'on the side' of the employees.
One thing that he mentioned was a policy that not everyone qualifies for a bonus and this is something I disagree with him on. He argues that everyone is involved in results which is true but, not everyone provides positive results and there are many doing the bare minimum to scrape through. A bonus is there to reward individuals and groups who go above and beyond and lose their value and power if everyone gets a prize, no matter performance.
This led into some other conversations about engaging employees though and I do think that everyone should get some level of bonus, at least for the companies that can over such. I think that the bonus should very rarely be a monetary bonus, it should be in the form of company ownership. The reason is that owning even a small piece of something does wonders for engagement as long as that piece is not too easy to cashout.
The reason is that if one is given cash, the chances of buying in are much lower as the draw of alternative options are available and it is an active move to invest, but, if given shares for example, it has to be an active move to divest. This distinction is very important as it requires thought and investigation either way. The first asks "why buy this over that?" and the second "Why sell this over that?" and this small change creates a different view of the same problem.
I am pretty sure that once those who have never owned shares before (we estimated 80% of their production) have shares given to them, they will start to investigate the pros and cons of holding or selling rather their previous ideas of buying. Buying for the future is not a natural process for humans who are largely driven by instant gratification. Doing this will also encourage financial literacy that is likely to at least help some percentage improve their future positions. For the company in time, this will give much more engaged and perhaps more financially sound employees so that when they come to work, they are a little less pressured by the debt collectors.
Ok, @krnel was asking me the other day what I would do to incentivize and disincentivize some actions here and I thought I might explore this a little. I read a post by @kevinwong about improving Steem where he quotes @trafalgar, a whale investor. (sorry for all the tags)
"I still believe with the right economic adjustments, we can make desirable behavior provide competitive or even superior returns to the problematic profit maximization behavior we have currently. Something like 50% curation, modest superlinear (which would incidentally solve most of the spam problems we currently have as well) and increased downvote incentives would be a good rough guide." - @trafalgar
Even if we tried this, why not try a few other things which would in my humble opinion, improve the system greatly. I think it would be bloody fantastic if more people powered up instead of down so, why not tweak the wallet a little? These sre just ideas for discussion:
- No powerdowns for 6 months to a year from account creation
Why should someone be able to come in here, earn, and start extracting value immediately without even exploring the community at all let alone engaging? This would also have effects on the bidbots as most will not return enough SBD to keep recycling their vote as the amount of SBD available will decrease unless they buy more. Sure, after 6 months they will be able to power down and start again but, will they? Perhaps the space in between will nudge some of them to actually give a shit or at least not power it all down as they have seen it as an investment with potential, not an ATM.
- No more direct 50/50 payout
What if instead of having a 50/50 SBD payout it was a 30/20/50 payout where the 50 is still the SP but the 20 in between is SBD that is converted at current internal market rates into SP? This will mean that the accounts will be forced to power up that 40% of their received SBD. This won't be popular but like EA Sports, 'If it's in the code, it's in the code' This will further reduce the available SBD to send to bidbots and help accounts grow SP something like (my math is shit) x1.4 times the rate of only having SP. This buy-in to the system would definitely make people learn a little more and think a little more.
- Reduce vote value while powering down
Now, it kind of pisses me off to see people powering down but I do understand that there are many reasons for this but, should they have full system rights when powering down? This I am really unsure about but for the case of discussion, what if a powering down account had their ability to vote reduced (for example to 80%) while they are powering down? Delegated SP can't be powered down so this doesn't affect that but, it will essentially put a little more in the pool for those not powering down. Of course, the powerdown handicap could be even higher.
Any changes to the code are going to affect everyone on the platform and not all are going to have the intended consequences and all are likely to have unintended consequences. Much like the delegation ability and the straight line birthed bidbots. The goal is to at least incentivize people to power up and use it to engage the community rather than a constant state of extraction.
These tweaks might disincentivize short term actors and push them more midrange as what they can extract immediately through liquids is 40% less. They will still however benefit from increases or be hurt by decreases in the future. At first, these changes would hurt some people's immediate lives but like has been said many, many time before, Steem is not a reliable income to live off as changes can come at any time.
If these are combined with a few other factors for example, the suggestions from @trafalgar, and perhaps paying curation in SBD/SP not just SP, it would lower the use of bidbots somewhat or decrease the heights they can reach meaning that they would have to attract more users and spread more to get the same returns for delegators, increase the power held on the platform effectively keeping more coins off the markets and get a lot more people large and small bought into the the system for a longer time. This would mean that they actively have to powerdown which comes with a disincentive of a lower vote during that time.
From a Steem economic view, I am not sure what this will do but, making the decision more heavily weighted on whether to power down rather than up means people will be forced to evaluate the pros and cons and what the options will cost them during that time. I don't really see why anyone who is cashing out continually from the system that supports them should be able to benefit from the people who are continually making the decision to buy in.
These are just a couple ideas to consider.
Now, while the sun is shining I will go and play with my daughter on the lake beach so... Talk amongst yourselves.
Taraz
[ a Steem original ]
I like the idea of splitting rewards 30/20/50 , I think it would make the idea of exchange less difficult when one price is high you get a lot less of the other
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This!
I probably did it myself, but I think I could've managed without it, and if it means we get a more engaged community I say
let's do it.
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Make Curation Great Again.
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I agree so try @trafalgar's approach and then incentivize powering up to curate and disincentivize powering down. Reducing the vote value while powering down will then cost even more if curation is incentivized. It would encourage not only the big to return to vote but help the small grow their SP by powering it up and having more curators.
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I always assumed voting weight was reduced while powering down, by the full amount being powered down. If not, I'd certainly support that change.
(So if you have 10,000 SP, and you're powering down 2000; you're only voting with 8000 from the moment you press the power-down button.)
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I dont think this is the case matt, because Im powering down a bit, for two weeks just cover the house bills (i hate it, i know) and my vote is fine.
Edit.-
Nevermind, I see others are already commenting on this very thing. I guess i need more coffee.
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I heard 'coffee' and knew I was home.
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I don't think so (like @meno) but even if there is, there should be an added disincentive perhaps.
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I'm not against it to be honest, the system should in all ways possible incentivize the right kind of behavior.
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I just think a few simple tweaks to at least the time would make a significant difference.
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I understand a lot of people are getting frustrated by the sheer volume of accounts that are 'in it for a quick buck' but enforcing some of these reminds me of some pension fund or bank held investments rules.Sure it will probably lead to some solutions but in my opnion it just feels a bit more tried and tested in the normal business sense than forward thinking. Steemit needs to be updated to differentiate between the different classes of users, why not look at rep as a way to indicate powerdown? Reps are being affected by bots too. Reps are the most visible on the platform and sometimes I feel they're not a true reflection of the users habits. Just my thoughts.
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Factor Haejin into your calculations. He is not only the highest rep and highest paid on the platform. He is in constant powerdown.
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Thats excatly what I'm trying to get to. If reps could be updated somehow to also include a persons behaviour and not just votes and flags what would his be sitting at?
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The rep on the platform hasn't ever worked but no one has a decent idea about how to fix it simply enough.
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Powering down could impact reputation, I think that's what @jusipassetti was onto.
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yes but what is the point unless reputation actually means something? i have mentioned its irrelevance for a year or more now, well before the bots. it is a broken metric and is meaningless as it affects so little here.
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Well yeah, at first I thought; Oh so that's what will unlock my upvote slider!
Not.
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I agree that a bonus should be given to reward a good performance, and I also agree that it need not be in the form of money. I could see how rewarding a good performance with shares would create a sense of ownership, and therefore a sense of responsibility for the long term success. I also think that making it a bit harder or less desirable to power down could have some benefit, at least as far as the short-termers are concerned.
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A few small tweaks here and there can make significant difference.
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Just because all people deserve equal opportunity does't mean that everybody deserves equal bonus. The idea of bonus is to reward the ones who have gone above and beyond and give others an equal share of it belittles their efforts.
I also have to agree with the fact the process of powering down has to be disincentivized a little more. The fact that people can start doing so immediately is hurting the platform. The fact is that we are already receiving a portion of our earnings in liquid SBD. Perhaps a year is a good time frame for that.
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Before my time but it started off that it took 2 years to powerdown completely, not 13 weeks. Perhaps that is another option. 1 year before powerdown, 6 month powerdown period.
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I am glad to hear that some of the problems are being discussed . The code could use some tweaking here and there to incentivise long term supporters . In most cases with banks , CD's and other forms of investing there is no instant withdraw . Some might be a week while others take a month or more .
Reducing the SBD payout would make a difference and I am not opposed to a percentage fee for withdraws depending on length of time it was invested . withdrawal Fee's are standard operating procedures in most
institutions
Good morning , getting my eyes opened with 1st cup of coffee . Hope your weekend is going great
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The faster you want something, the more you have to pay. Whether it be airline tickets, hotel rooms or return on investments.
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A 48 hour hold before transfer would change the entire platform . Just in bots it takes them 2-3 days to resteem or upvote a post . Add another 2 days for coin to get to them and your looking at a post that only has 2-3- days before the 7 day mark instead of the 5 days they have now . The trending page would change .
Or just not cost effective with the added fees
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This idea is the most intriguing to me:
Reduce vote value while powering down
"Now, it kind of pisses me off to see people powering down but I do understand that there are many reasons for this but, should they have full system rights when powering down? This I am really unsure about but for the case of discussion, what if a powering down account had their ability to vote reduced (for example to 80%) while they are powering down? Delegated SP can't be powered down so this doesn't affect that but, it will essentially put a little more in the pool for those not powering down. Of course, the powerdown handicap could be even higher."
I think this seems like a logical step to argue that if you are powering down (ie., showing lessened commitment to steemit) that your vote and sway within the community should be lessened to as well. If you want to have sway, voting power, and all that comes with that, you need to power up and remain powered up.
I like that.
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At the moment, (afaik) until the powerdown actually happens, the full vote value is possible. I think reduction should be from initiation at the very least
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Hi Taraz. Lots if interesting ideas. The powering down one should have more conditions attached to it. Not to make it more difficult but maybe no more than twice a year. i agree with the doing away of the 50/50 and making it maybe 40/60 so accounts grow quicker. I am sure the brains trust is hard at work and will come up with a work in progress scenario.
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playing around a little will be fun at least :)
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The idea to reshape the freelance nature of this system in terms of powering down is good but a lot of factors need to be considered. Do you know that (i am not 100% accurate )half of people who are here are not true investors ,they came in here so that they will be able to aford one or two meal a day . i may sound crazy but it is a reality. There are parts of the world even if you are not doing anything you are not worried about how to get what to eat because the government will provide at least your daily bread but can i tell you friends there are side of this world that is like hell on earth such that to aford for one meal is not all that easy . Now , if the idea of delaying for powering down let say 6months is implemented ,the system will automatically going to loose millions of members because they can't wait till that time. Steemit has a big problem neverthless i heartily believe that one idea orchestrated divinely will level this big mountain before us and make us to grow with the speed of light . i am pretty much happy to come across your priceless idea.
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I think I will write a post on this a bit later but they should not be relying on a system in Beta not to change.
There are only 60k active a week currently and 1 million total accounts.
Before a lot of people come in and start really relying on the system, a lot of changes need and will be made.
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Does 50% of rewards for clicking a button seem proportional to you?
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No it doesn't but, $400 for a cellphone photo posted on steepshot doesn't either. Seems I don't know what has value here. What is ridiculous is that these things can be tried and rolled back or forwards quite quickly yet, people just talk. It has been a year since HF19 and some of these experiments could have been tried while it is obvious that when it currently is is not working. Perhaps then there would be better information for HF20.
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They can be done quickly, but they don't get done quickly. Bad changes from past hardforks can take many months to over a year and yet don't get reverted. That's the reality of reversion of Steem code changes... It's less of a soft change to experiment that a hard change that sticks... :/
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I like the idea of a tweak in the payout system to accommodate a bit more holding. I think it would generally be accepted as people would realize that steemit is meant to be a long term investment.
Lol have fun playing with your little girl
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we need the release of a new white paper, Do you think that the use of Good Person Token will improve the platform?
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I know next to nothing about good person token but perhaps it could have an effect on who gets rewarded somewhat. All i know is that at the moment, good people are suffering as others take advantage of them.
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That sums it up really well
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Hey, @tarazkp this is great post.thanks for sharing....
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cryptoos are future... and steemit is the greatest on crypto market
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Good luck, hopefully post becomes our guide.
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