I was banned muzzled today from in SteemChat after expressing my opinion about downvotes. The room is filled with what many might call an elite class of Steemians who seem to be out of touch with the community. I think we should have a very neutral poll about what Steemians think with respect to downvoting flagging in general. I don't have the means or ways but it might be the fastest way to find out what the general consensus is.
do a dpoll if you want some sort of an opinion... But honestly the whales have so much power it really doesn't matter.. HF21 proved that with more rewards for the whales and less rewards for everyone else!? Just like when they allowed the bidbots to destroy the steemit ecosystem because they were making money hand over fists selling votes, many of the top witnesses were in on it.. Shit won't change unless it is good for the whales, witnesses and/or steemit.inc. It's crazy to think 2 years ago when I joined steemit everyone was raving about the release of SMTs coming, now we have something resembling SMTs thanks to steem-engine (steemians who took the initiative) but still only empty promises regarding SMTs from steemit.inc! Actions speak louder than words and the actions from steemit.inc say they don't give a fuck about the little guys, the backbone of this ecosystem, they only care about enriching themselves.. However this is just my opinion and it's only worth what people paid for it..... NOTHING! hahaha
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I wish I could get a poll on Steemit, but I might be able to fund one on
PAL. Thank you very much for your feedback @moderndayhippie!
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Your in luck! There is a steemit service called @dpoll where you can post polls on steemit for people to take ;)
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Will it get me all the replies or only in accordance with
my following? I'm trying to have as pure a poll as I can.
With neutral language and broad audience, etc.. etc...
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I honestly dont know much about it, but i think it will post to your profile along with on the dpoll dapp (which is a steemit clone) so anyone who goes on that site will have the option to see it and vote on it as well... Although I dont know how popular the dapp is on a daily basis..
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you must have been a special kind of abrasive to get kicked out of SteemChat .. the people in there for the most part will put up with opposing views
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Well, perhaps I was on that day. I should note I was not "kicked", but was suddenly prevented from being able to type in the middle of a back and forth. At the time it happened there really wasn't an explanation so I left the server. It's not a big deal, I just found it interesting and noteworthy. I'm told I can come back, but am soured to the idea. That aside, what concerns me more is the project mission creep with downvotes. First it was relabeling the flag to a downvote, and now it's encouraging people to use downvotes liberally.
Basically, whomever is coming up with these ideas must be a big fan of B.F. Skinner because what they're doing is training people to use operant conditioning on each other. Not all of operant conditioning is bad or unnatural per se. Some of it is normal market activity. For example, if a business does something particularly well they will get customers and that is the reward. Similar to if someone produces good content, they will get votes and that is the reward. So the positive reinforcement end of operant conditioning can be almost indistinguishable from normal market activity.
Whereas with the introduction of downvotes, you add something very unnatural to the equation that directly effects not only reputation points, but also can block value from being exchanged from patron to content creator. One of these things is natural, and one of these things is very unnatural. If steem wasn't already niche enough, i'm pretty sure that this move will make it even less popular among those who may have otherwise been interested in it.
Why is this punishment end of operant conditioning unnatural? A parent may use operant conditioning on a child to some degree of success, and I think we've all been conditioned, if you will, to accept this as normal. Whether it is an optimal way to raise a child is a different debate entirely. When adults use the punishment end of operant conditioning on other adults, it is a very unnatural thing. This is because it comes off as a form of psychological manipulation, and this is what the new "downvote" tool of hark fork 21 encourages. More specifically, when it is used to punish an author because you disagree with what they say.
If you've seen the Orville's Majority rule episode, or Black Mirror's Nose Dive, I think you'd come to see that this is very strange, and or a foreign way to teach people to behave. It's effect will be that people will be less genuine, less candid, and try to become the moral arbiters of the actions or inaction of their neighbors. I'd like to know who is coming up with these ideas and wonder what their goals are. The Chinese are already living under an oppressive social credit system and it's something that TPTB want to rollout worldwide.
Thanks for stopping by @shadowspub, and for
sharing your thoughts about myself & SteemChat.
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Ah sounds like you were server muted. If you were behaving out of norm that is sort of like a timeout. I'm sure it was frustrating for you.
The downvotes were always downvotes and have existed ever since the Steem started. People started calling them flags likely due to Steem using a flag to signal a post had been downvoted. Sort of like them using curate when it really is an upvoting action.
Downvotes and upvotes create the ying and the yang of the system. They are needed for balance. The only thing new is that instead of someone having to use the voting power for either action they are able to do 2.5 downvotes a day without using their VP.
I have some concerns that some will misuse that option but so far, there doesn't seem to be much of that. I have no doubt it will come though. The question is, when it comes, will the larger stakeholders address it.
As much as I'm no fan of Reddit, they do use up and downvoting. There just isn't rewards attached to it. Reddit is a popular platform so, people do get it.
!SHADE 2
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I like the idea of a downvote that isn't associated with value. In that case, it's a good way to express disagreement without doing something which can be perceived as causing harm. But the action by itself without leaving a comment is tantamount to hand waving, or a mindless act of dismissal. I've been around for almost the entire life of the platform, actually looks like you've got me beat by about a month.
The original reason for the downvotes were reasonable, but then the folks at STINC soon learned that they couldn't control how or why people use the flag tool. This is when reward disputes were thrown in as kind of a catchall reason to get people to stop complaining, or to get them to stop hounding STINC to fix a problem that is unsolvable.
It will be interesting when facebook comes out with their Libra if they will also have downvotes associated with value. If they do, I think it will cause a level of discord that will make it noticeable enough to show why it's divisive and a bad idea in general. And the people on FB know each other IRL, can you imagine if that was implemented. Just wow. I'm starting to think that these two technologies should not have been married together the way they are. Time will tell I guess.
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there is no sense in having a downvote that has no value unless the matching upvote likewise has no value. We may not like it but one needs to match the other or there is zero way to deal with those who do abuse the system.
In a better world no one would abuse the system but we don't have that world. So, up and down must balance and carry the same value. I am more inclined to move on than downvote most of them time but there are lots of situations where they are needed and need to be there.
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I'm inclined to live and let live myself with respect to being one who does not downvote. What I can not reconcile about people who do otherwise is that we naturally accept the fact that the more steem a person has, the bigger their upvote is. By HODLing a large amount of steem any given stakeholder adds value to the crypto, and this is because they are not selling.
The only reason to continue to HODL the steem from an investors perspective is if they can capitalize off of it. Part of this has to do with them using their stake in such a way that it will be self-serving or that they can benefit from it. Now I think with this HF some steemians who are large stakeholders will take counter measures and easily thwart what they have attempted to do. But the moment that a HF succeeds in making it too difficult for investors to capitalize then I would forsee a mass selloff.
This is because people can invest in the blockchain and profit, or they can store their money in a bank in exchange for an annual percentage yield. If I was an investor to any substantial degree, I'd want to be able to draw back at least what I would have earned in APY. I just don't know if social media and the blockchain were ever meant to be joined like this. It seems to be forcing people into unnatural behavior patterns. I feel much better not upvoting something than I do downvoting it. Not everyone wants to be like Simon from American Idol, or Caesar with his infamous thumb signals that made or broke people.
There is a big push for social credit score systems in the world which use operant conditioning to control the population. To me downvotes at their best come off similar to the punishment end of operant conditioning, or at their worst petty theft. I wrote a bit about this here if you're interested. I see what you wrote and comprehend what you mean but if it's going to change my behavior in an unnatural, or in a negative way, I'd rather just not engage in that kind of activity.
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