Just a suggestion:
Translation: Make it easy, is how normal people say, "Reduce Cognitive Load", in case anyone from SteemIt, Inc. sees this.
It's great you now want to separate the wallets from SteemIt.com, and are in the process of doing it.
Yet, I still feel like you are missing the boat on a User-Friendly experience.
User Experience as most corporations know is based on emotion. When a user signs up for SteemIt.com they already get several scary messages about saving the password. I know this is necessary, but the first emotion given to users is fear. Next, we give them 4 scary passwords with names that mean nothing, even to me after being here for 3 years. This creates stress. It feels hard. People like to do things that are easy. It leaves also them open to making mistakes.
Now, in addition, you are going to make them select the correct scary password to log on to SteemIt.com and a different scary password to login to their wallet. Isn't there an easier way?
Everyone loves to brag about our community. The way that Steem earned it's non-crypto users was by having an easy front-door. SteemIt.com. Knowing nothing about crypto, I could come in make some posts, read some other posts and start to understand the concept of Blockchain, Keys, Wallets, Block times, Mining, DPOS (all the crypto things) and all the things you guys talk about. I didn't come here knowing all of that, and yet I could figure it out. Once a user's Steem starts to grow and they get excited, they can figure out how to open an account at Coinbase or other sites to buy some crypto and learn to buy, sell and trade it. All because we had an easy place for new users to land and post, ask questions and learn.
So many blockchain projects are out there looking for ways to gather mainstream adoption, and we have it. We have it and we don't appreciate it at all. The blogging sites keep people here and the gaming sites keep them busy and give them places to use their Steem, this is the beginning of the economy. But, I am getting side tracked.
Back to the Keys. Can't you have an easy button so they don't have to know which password to use where and handle it somehow by default with the password or some other mechanism? Or reduce the number of keys the average user is presented with? How many people need all 4 keys and know when to use them? I don't.
I imagine someone will say there isn't time to fix it right now.. There is never time to do things right, but are you really ever going to do it over? I think the best way to handle the wallets would still dumb it down quite a bit further rather than make it harder from an end-user perspective. Consider doing it while it is fresh in the developers mind.
When I read about projects that other blockchains are doing they are often talking about how to attract mainstream users. We have them. Many of them came here to write, communicate, and have created a bond and that is why we have a special community, compared to most blockchains. Many didn't stay because it was too hard or they didn't feel appreciated. Let's not squander the remaining community and our shot at future crypto users.
Make it Easy!!
Many blockchains have a ton of apps that do not get a lot of traffic. Many blockchains have a lot of security features that make them difficult to use, while I understand we need to keep security, why not spend a little time trying to engineer an easier fix?
Want to talk about it in chat? Come to https://discord.gg/uYzpeK
One word: Keychain!
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While I agree it is helpful, can you imagine setting it up on your first day?
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You nailed the hammer on the head, @whatsup.
If I'm completely honest, I don't think at this point in time, Steem and all of its different d/Apps are ready for mass adoption. Even I had massive problems in the beginning when I joined Steem. And sadly, not that much has changed from a UX/UI point-of-view.
At this point in time, I wouldn't trust that my own mother would be able to handle all of the different stuff on Steem. Let alone being able to safely take care of keys or understanding the risk of immutability. Regardless if the wallet is on steemit.com or wallet.steemit.com. And if we want real mass-adoption, that's one of the things that has to change. Making it much, much easier and safer for the average person.
PS: I don't even think that content should be immutable by default. There might be some people who are in need of that kind of technology, but the general population: eh, I've just posted my super-private-message to my fiance. How can I delete it? Well, you can't. Welcome to Steem!
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It's true I also agree we will remain a niche for quite sometime. We haven't solved enough problems yet, including some that shouldn't be this hard.
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What? Huh? The wallet is changing? Why? It seems like it works fine now. Will we be able to trade to fiat or other currencies with the new wallets? Are we going to need photo ID?
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Just a different site for wallet I think. For security.
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Hello,
you are so right ❗❗❗
Keep it as easy as possible!
We want mass adoption?
We want non crypto people join?
KEEP IT EASY!!!
The masses aren't interested in blockchain technology, they don't want to study steemit weeks and weeks, the most just haven't the time!!
A very good example for it is Partiko, an app ready for the masses.
Think about it dear Steem devs!
Have a great day
Tom
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Advanced user settings might do the trick.
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Here is my suggestion after talking about this in Chat.
2 keys... show when you first log in and they are named...
APP Key or SteemIt Key... And Wallet Key.
The others are hidden in advanced settings with warnings and explanations.
Going to upvote this for visibility.
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The "scary" message about their password isn't scary enough! Pretty much every day there are people that go to steem.chat asking for help because they lost their passwords. It should be a huge warning in red, because they simply aren't getting it. Accidents happen. Drive failures happen. But it should not be happening as often as it is. These people don't understand that their passwords cannot be recovered.
I said when I first got here that to get mainstream adoption we need an interface that manages the passwords of new users and users that either would rather a platform manage their passwords for them, or are simply incapable of doing so themselves.
I've had to spend close to an hour teaching some people how to even just double click a mouse. Some people are far less capable of learning new things. Part of being user friendly means not being so difficult...unless the person is willing to face a little more difficulty for added security.
A good platform should give a user that power, but hold their hand until they can use it.
As to the keys:
The majority of users mainly only need their posting key for daily operations. They need their active key when dealing with their wallet. I've never even used my owner key or my memo. My main password key I've used on occasion. It's useful to import all of your keys into a tool, but you should only use a key greater than your posting key on a tool you trust, and only use something greater than your active key on tools you REALLY trust.
Maybe they should rename some of them so they make it more obvious how dangerous them are. Might I suggest renaming the Owner Key to "THE KEY OF DOOM!", including caps and exclamation point.
Part of the problem with keys is the same problem that we have with Steemit with development and the ninja mine. Steemit SUCKS at documentation. When you join, you need to be properly warned about password safety and what the keys mean, etc. I remember actually taking quite a bit of time just figuring out where my keys were when I was a new user. That should be one of the first things new users are told about, because that security is very important. They need to make a series of intro videos and documentation.
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I've never understood what the memo key is for anyway
The 2 main keys are
Posting ...should be the key for everyday stuff apart from payment.
Active... Should only be used for wallet/steem movement
the other keys...
Memo key? no idea
Owners key should only be used to change all other keys or to reclaim your account.... Never for login, never for posting, never for payment.
The owner key is the master key and not an everyday key
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It's for encrypting memos. So people can like send you messages without everyone seeing it.
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Well, that's why it should go under advanced features.
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Yeah, maybe. But...it is questionable if Steemit should be the Facebook type interface for the masses...or if maybe they should split it...or maybe someone else should come along to make the super easy one for everyone. Facebook has actually be hinting that they might be looking into crypto. Scarily enough, they could literally come along and fork Steem or make their own interface or a competitor.
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Well you learn something new every day :-)
Thanks for the reply and info
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I think a better approach would be a graphic tutorial , can even be a single image with a key management approach laid out others can follow easily. With clear and concise verbage explaining not to use master key for much at all,... Etc.
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Steemsavvy
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Hopefully everyone can just use keychain to access all the Apps on desktop and phone.
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You can't expect users to go to fifty places to get more apps when they sign up. Well, I guess we do, but it seems daunting.
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I understand your point about user experience, but when dealing with quite a bit of money as some people have in their accounts, having one password control all of it is not a smart choice. What if someone gains control of the password? Boom, you might have just lost everything if you didn't diversify(PLEASE DIVERSIFY). But having a rarely used active key for funds means that you can use your posting key to do normal things and don't need to worry about losing your money, only your reputation...
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Can't you easily remedy that with separate accounts or wallets on other exchanges? Plus most Steem is usually in Steem Power anyways.
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Yup, I got a cold wallet, and I assume most of the bigger people have multiple cold wallets. Yup its true most STEEM is in SP, but not everyone will hold it that way. Investors who want to trade it won't do it that way. And you shouldn't keep your funds on exchanges. Just look at what happened to quadrigacx. So many people lost their funds held there.
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Sure, but why not have an easy solution and an advanced feature solution?
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Do you use the same password for your bank, email and social media? What's your Facebook page? Let's play a fun game of financial pentesting... Thinking twice about same password for social and monetary functions?
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Whatsup goes to change her bank password
Whatsup: No, I use different passwords.
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LoL. Same (; but most everyone is not at all security conscious... Most write down passwords or leave them somewhere they can be found otherwise (text file, sms messages to self, email to self, saved on various cloud services, etc)..
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Wouldn't the easy solution be teaching friends and family to RTFM and know that each key isnt for the front door, but there are garage and safe keys also... and one for the gun case... And the mailbox..
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Easy solution is use your master password for everything. It's not recommended. You could do that while learning, but if you care about your account, you shouldn't do that.
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Wait.. fuck I still use my Master key for everything.. I learned that from watching old movies with master keys, the one guy always had a master key for everything.... So I have to use the master key.. lol. Pretzel logic at it's best!!!
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This is an industry wide problem. You're right though, having an all in one platform is great for people new to the space. Especially bloggers that are coming over with little to no crypto experience. For those people, having to create a separate wallet will just be one more obstacle or deterrent for them to get signed up. Another reason to say, "Oh, it's just to complicated. I don't get all that crypto stuff". I've noticed everyone talking about new wallets but this is the first I've read about any of this. It would be nice if they had easy mode for new users and advanced mode for the folks who have been part of the crypto rodeo for a bit.
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That is exactly what I was thinking... make a simple wallet for the noobs.
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I couldn't agree more. I am not super good at all the tech stuff that comes along with using this site and I would certainly rather have things made a little easier for me.
I still almost have a mild panic attack every time I try to transfer or delegate steem because I'm worried that I am going to lose money due to a typo or something lol.
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Will there ever be a way to link our keys to biometric security? People will lose their keys, or make it easy for hackers to get them. They're less likely to lose their fingerprints, facial features, voice and retina. Posting keys could be just linked to a fingerprint but the more important keys require a combination of them.
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I like Steem Keychain a lot. You sort of need to still understand the keys to set it up but once you do you are good to go.
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You shouldn't send people out to download another app before they can use your app. :)
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Yeah for newcomers it makes it all confusing.
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I absolutly agree. Instead of making things simpler and easier to use they just added an additional step. Something else to remember and learn how to use.
I think they have missed a fantastic opportunity by not integrating into the steemchain password chrome extension thingy which is so easy to use and log into the DApps (actually too easy as Im now losing a fortune at blackjack!) .
I tried this new wallet last night and I understand why they have done it from @exyle 's post but I think its a seriously bad move in respect to UX.
The first thing anyone wanting to join Steem needs to do is to pass an IQ test!
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https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/steem-keychain/lkcjlnjfpbikmcmbachjpdbijejflpcm?hl=en
This is thingy I was talking about! Its brilliant and cant wait for an Android version.
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They should let you use the posting key to login to both interfaces, and then ask for the active key once you try to send from the wallet. But I agree and I think that really the wallet and the overall user experience should be connected. Every single other Steem Dapp (for the most part) has a wallet connected to the app itself. Can you imagine if every single Steem Dapp had it's own "site" and also it's own "wallet"? Holy shit that would be sooooo annoying.... There is really no need to separate the wallet from the block explorer/interpreter (they call it condenser). It's what blockchains are for practically, the wallets. Just seems like totally unnecessary work at this point when ALL anybody gives a shit about is getting rich of SMTs right now. Not going to lie, I am. I think we could (for the most part) all use the money at this point in time and they are doing stuff nobody even asked for... Meanwhile SMTs were supposed to be going live right about now. Just makes you want to shake your head and say wtf... And then go shave the Steem logo in your head.
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That's a good idea.
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Keychain Wallet is the easy option but many Dapps have not developed its integration which is unfortunate given the potential it has!
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Agreed, but how often do you go download another app to use an app? It's still not user friendly.
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They only need three. Master, active and posting.
Memo can be added to posting.
Owner is a useless term that should be master.
Also, public keys are basically useless for everyone but developers.
They can just tell people to not use the master key for anything except account recovery or password changes
Save all three.
It seems like they made it really advanced for developers and software engineers, but most of us just want a simple password to decrypt our key file on our phone and desktop/laptop.
Steem keychain is great. Hopefully it erases the info if tampered with, too many wrong guesses or transferred/ copied.
Steem connect is okay especially for just posting.
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Steemkeychain is the way to go. Import your keys, and confirm everything manually. You'll know whats going on each time, and it'll use the correct key itself.
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Steem keychain is desktop only though... What about us mobile power users? (;
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Post through Partkio, only needs posting privileges with steemconnect.
And theres that app made by that guy who's name starts with R but I forgot for wallet actions. Boom, 90% of your steeming done right there.
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That's the big problem for newcomers and big obstacle.
Maybe we could have different levels depending on the value of the account. There are so many options available.
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Giving people keys at different "intervals" is sort of a weird idea, why not do it from the start like we already do. I'm pretty sure most people start out using their master key for everything and then learn the differences and start to use their posting key, especially once their account has enough of a value for them to care.
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Who would you trust with a wallet like this?
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Some guy named oldtimer.
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I meant Keychain, Steemconnect, Steemit.com.
Quadriga had all passwords and keys.
If someone takes the money from my bank account I get a full refund from the bank.
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If someone takes the money from my bank account I get a full refund from the bank.
What bank do you use? Just gonna open up an account with them, deposit a couple million, leave my password lying around for @sn0n to hack and take, have him transfer everything to himself and cash out into cold hard cash, and then cry to them in 4-6 business days about how I want my money back.
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Note: I don't play like that. LoL. Just saying.. it was an example!! Hahaha..
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I'll tell you about the bank when you'll have a couple of millions. We can split 50-50.
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Done deal.
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Maybe that’s what keychain does?
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It is but the first thing you do when a new user comes to the site is send them to another intimidating app... How will they know what to even put in there.
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Totes.
I think it’s part of the learning process though... to go from thinking about ‘passwords’ to ‘cryptographic keys’.
It’s a different way of thinking about cyber-security.
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Can you imagine you go to the bank to open a new account and they give you four different passwords and keys?
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I mean they sorta do. Authentication with your phone, email verification, that check they do to make sure you are actually who you say you are. Safety deposit boxes with 2 keys.
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you can't compare with:
Ks53buudub4bvmKGGFTGtgd779endbfFFGHHJJYTF884hdhsksnfbfsnsndn
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Now which of that is made up and which of it is real? Time to find out. Lol. But you can set the master password yourself and use that for everything if you want, something as simple as
IWANTTOHAVEMYMONEYSTOLEN
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You missing the point of the post. We are so-called experts.
But here we talking about newcomers and how to make easier for them. How do you think one million new users from the third world countries with the cellphones will deal with these keys. Think deeper, my friend. I don't have time to discuss with you.
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Now that's a good question. As someone who mostly understands the uses of these keys, I don't see how others can not, but its possible for them to miss it. We can start with better education on the roles of the keys, steemit themselves recently made a post about this, but this is going to be a tough problem to solve.
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I totally agree with you @whatsup ! After well over 2 years of being here , its a pain in the Ass,lol! My words to those guys: "Keep It Simple Stupid!" Haha, Life is stressful enough!👍😎 upped and resteemed
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Hi @whatsup!
Your post was upvoted by @steem-ua, new Steem dApp, using UserAuthority for algorithmic post curation!
Your UA account score is currently 6.362 which ranks you at #201 across all Steem accounts.
Your rank has improved 1 places in the last three days (old rank 202).
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Congratulations @whatsup!
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I agree also the visuals on the UI could be more apealing.
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