This is an idea born out of experience. I will take one step back before I give you the scenario, and why I believe this could make Steemit’s community stronger moving forward…
@smooth - NOT a Killer Whale
I happened to have a conversation with @smooth as a result of one of my posts, where I had used his account (in an anonymous nature) as an example of a bot. He noticed I was talking about his account, and DM’ed me on chat. He proceed to explain that his account was not as it seemed on the surface. Although the blockchain is completely transparent, numbers don’t tell you the true story of the users behind the accounts. His account (for instance) has (amongst other things) ~10 users behind it, who trawl through (currently) unloved posts, searching for hidden gems, that deserve more attention. This account achieves very lucrative Curation Rewards, but is also providing an important service to the Steemit platform. The numbers on the surface, to me, suggested it was just one guy, with a very clever bot.
One thing that is worth making clear is that. He didn’t ask me for a retraction, or EDIT even though I offered one, this was purely one user educating another.
So, I thought that was it…I’d had an education which had changed my perspective on the Steemit ecosystem, and gained respect for this user in the process. From that moment on, I started to take a closer look at how certain user conduct themselves on Steemit. I then came some unusual voting behaviour, a week or so later…
Strange Voting Behaviour
This Happened to 2 Separate Posts
So, I posted, some 30 minutes went by, and then, @smooth up-voted me, which sent me near the top of the trending list. Obviously, this got a lot of eye’s on my article, and the up-votes started to roll in. An hour went by, and because of the Creation Rewards Algorithm, this single vote had become very valuable (~$1000).
@smooth then removed the up-vote, sending me back down the trending list from #1 to let’s say #15. I thought to myself, either he decided my reward was too big OR he re-read it through and decided my work wasn’t very good, either way, his actions are his prerogative..
Then @smooth up-voted again, sent me back to #1 on the trending list. Then I thought, this is interesting, @smooth is clearly a fickle character. Then another hour or so past and it was removed again…This happened once more until the 12 hour cycle was over, and ended up a very successful post, but without @smooth’s vote, and the ~$1500 reward that would have come with it.
What impact did this have?
Would this post have been as successful without @smooth voting in this manner? I don’t think so. Not nearly as many eye’s would have seen my post, and for an educational post, this was my whole aim.. I was grateful for the post-promotion @smooth had performed for me..
I had been rewarded handsomely over the previous week for a number of posts. I understand that, we need distribution. Distribution is what will make Steem become a stable cryptocurrency and allow us to retain an engaged user base. It’s pointless for certain users to get all the rewards, as those rewards will only end up worth nothing when the user base become disillusioned and move on to other activities.
I did contact @smooth prior to posting this to make sure I had understood his intentions properly. He proceeded to explain that, if he sees content that he likes, he up-votes early. If this post makes it’s way to the top of the trending list, and in his opinion gets too bigger share of the Creation Rewards, he will often remove his vote to allow those rewards to be allocated elsewhere. That is, NOT down-vote/flag, just remove his up-vote. If your questioning whether his intentions are pure, he also walked away from a big curation reward in the process, after up voting me at ~$20 and the post going as high as $3000…
Summary
I believe this type of active behaviour from ‘Whale’ is key to helping Steem become distributed in a fair, and positive manner. Greed will kill this project. However, having a group of ‘Whales’ with their hands on the scales could remove distribution worries, and really help the community at large buy into Steem as a fair cryptocurrency.
This will also allow them to promote material they like, whilst keeping control of rewards certain authors receive. Steem(it) IS a free market, but diligent Whales can make it a FAIR market, and help Steem(it) on it’s way to mass adoption. There are certainly a few Whales, @smooth being one, already participating in such actions, I’m looking forward to seeing more users follow their lead.
Interested to hear users views on this matter...
Image Source
http://www.freepik.com
Very good article. Helps to explain the method behind the madness if you will. This shows they pay way more attention to this site and its users than you think. These type of choices only show they are helping content they feel has a meaning.
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@ltndd1 How did you reputation get so bad? If you've been caught up with an unfair flagging somewhere I will try and help you get it up...
I see now, DM me when your posting new content, and if it deserves an upvote, I will give you one and promote it.
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I appreciate your help and no it was no unfair tottaly. Even though i was reposting and didnt know any better i was still spamming and didnt realize it. I blame no one but myself and i appreciate your sincerity. I have some really good posts in mind coming up ans would love your input. Even if it does not result in an upvote. Thanks
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I meant to ask you how do you DM. Sorry still juvenile to the system. Lol
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congrats @ltndd1, looks like you made it to the sunny parts of ocean!
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I seen your blog post, you can earn your way out of this. Go to steemit.chat Set an account up. My user name is the same..
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Yes! You're up to three now! Great, its working! When @neoxian pointed your account out to me it was at 0! Awesome that people are working to help you right the ship.
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Hi Ollie,
i think this could go hand in hand with the new slider for adjusting voting power.
a whale could vote early and than if the posts goes too high, he could remove the vote and revote with 10% of his powers.
this way the user will still have his vote, but he doesnt have to mess around too much with multiple up-downvotes.
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Yeah I've done this a few times, mostly on comments. With occasional exceptions a full power vote from me or even a 20% vote on a comment is rather absurd so I do use the slider and sometimes adjust the slider after voting if the results are unexpected and not what I intend (in either direction).
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smooth happy monday, please look over my posts... I put a lot of effort into creative stories.
Would be awesome to know it's to your liking
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@smooth, Sorry to approach you this way - but I'm trying to launch a new content aggregation service called the Lost Content Digest. I'm finding articles by new authors who missed their first payout, but deserve something more. I'm going to be writing articles that feature several of these missed articles, and then I'll send the SBD proceeds of my article to the authors of the lost articles, hopefully generating them some income and followers.
Is this something you'd be interested in supporting?
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Thank you for your service towards decentralization. Your vote counts more than you realize :-)
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That is a good point. There were some user up-voting and down-voting with @smooth. Probably just bots, but people following certain accounts may see it as a negative sign...The reduction in Voting power makes the most sense
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I'm not sure I agree with removing your votes after the fact.
If you accidentally click on something then that is fine but this kind of deliberate upvoting then removing, then putting them back just doesn't sit right with me.
If it were up to me I would impose some kind of penalty for voters who "change their mind" like this.
IMO the risk is that the same way that whale votes give more prominence to a post and encourage others to follow it could have a domino affect on the post with others also removing their votes.
From a psychological perspective I think there is something inherently more troubling about giving something then taking it aways (as opposed to not giving it at all).
Imagine giving someone a gift one day and then taking it back from them the next. Just doesn't feel right.
On the one hand it looks mean and on the other it seems quite manipulative.
Anyway that's my opinion maybe I'm just weird that way.
Everybody interprets these things things through the prism of their own personality.
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I've come to view whales as a potential art parton of old. Back when rich people paid artist to create. Why can't that work here?
And then those that receive money from whales can then spread out their money to others.
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Interesting way to look at it. If you add in, that the Whales also give out Sponsorship to new up and coming talent, to support them through the early years, then I'm in ;)
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I admit, I'm on the Wang bot author list. I've been on various smaller bots, but then they change out. And what I noticed is, Wang helps my SP, I then Upvote other posts will little to no money, I only give out 7-10 cents, but that helps with getting a little more noticed. And then I am getting upvoted by certain creators that are doing well, and getting upvoted by whales on a regular basis. So I'm receiving a little bit of their results from the whales.
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hi there that was a really interesting read thank you for sharing. many people get upset by the whales but most of them mean well and are trying to help out. one should never make assumption from what one sees but try to understand and see what is deeper down which could be hidden if one isn't looking hard enough
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indeed very cool idea, @pfunk experimented with this kind of technique a few weeks back to various success.
the downside is clear: you need to really pay attention and be careful to upvote/downvite as you see fit..very time-consuming.
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That is an interesting way to do things, and it's nice that @smooth reached out to you on the chat to correct you.
Getting eyes on posts is so important, because people pay attention to the trending large payout posts and even if the big payout is removed after a while it still has the benefit of having sent more views and many more small upvotes from minnows and dolphins. Most people don't have time to sift through the new posts not in their feeds and so one 'whale' vote brings a lot of exposure and name recognition.
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Couldn't agree more @jamtaylor
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I should point out that some of the most successful authors have similar ideas. I've been contacted on steemit.chat a few tines by authors asking me to remove my vote, because they felt they were trending too high and would rather make a modest amount and leave more for others (in one case the author in question had two posts high in trending at the same time).
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It's good to know that it's happening from both side. It's easy to look at someone's success and label them greedy. When in fact, in many circumstances they are far from that...
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I think people put too much focus on "Steem Dollar Payout" and it's in my opinion flawed, and in a way unethical. It's unethical because it defeats the idea that this platform is about competing for Steem Power and if a person can't for example determine that 100% of their reward go to Steem Power then they are forced to accept less Steem Power because other people might perceive they are getting too much potential USD?
Why is the focus so much on USD by the whales who should know better? I realize bloggers need to get paid in USD in order to pay their own cost of living but in the end what matters is who holds the Steem Power because in the future these will be the new whales and patrons of future generations.
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If more people would prefer reputation ans number of upvotes, the the cash payout, it would be better for the platform long term, in my opinion. Once you have a stable audience, and better yet write posts that create i teresting discussion (something I am yet to acheive, but see that is something doable) the impact of the whale votes for them would lessen.
Of course a lot of people would prefer those $300-$3000 payouts, but the way I see it it is more of a good platform to find your audience. And it already brings more value than having a personal site for quite a bit of people.
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I really like this idea. @smooth is a very innovative whale and wisely gives voting power to multiple users.
I've benefited as much from his comments as I have from his upvotes (both are always appreciated). You know if you have made a post that @smooth upvotes that you most likely have taken your blog in the correction many people wish steemit to continue towards.
I think whale votes are sometimes double edged swords.
For some it is a big motivation to receive a whale vote on a comment and pushes them to write continuously valuable posts and comments. But for others sometimes getting a whale upvote on their #introduceyourself post gives them the feeling that everything will be smooth sailing (pun intended @smooth). Not getting a whale to vote on a second article that a user has spent a lot of time on may make them bitter and start to badmouth steemit.
A lot depends on the outlook of the user and whether the see a way to make a quick buck or a valuable long-term investment.
I think generally @smooth is spot on with decisions he makes and would definitely be interested in seeing what comes of this.
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@bendjmiller222 Some great points. Especially the 'double edged sword'. Many user have experienced that, and it's a problem (IMO) that some users got their first whale up-vote too easy and didn't have to earn it, which might cause the frustrated 'self entitlement' outbursts we have been seen.
However I have noticed the introduce yourself posts beginning to wane to popularity, which overall I think is a good thing..
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I think the really creative one's should generate a lot of money because that is what I want steemit to be about, but you are right, not everyone deserves to have a large payout on the introduceyourself post, but there should be people monitoring the feed for new talent. I have a friend who is putting together a really creative one that I think will really change her life along with adding value here.
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Send it to me when it is posted :)
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What I've noticed is once you get a couple posts upvoted by a higher ranked steemian, people notice your name more, and upvote you more because you're more known. Sometimes it's not all about interesting quality content. So share the love whales...such a big sea..just remember we all started out as minnows.
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With all the negativity of curation bots, consolidated SP, etc. lately things like this are inspirational in my opinion.
Not only on the part of @smooth who seems to put in the personalized, extra effort (as some of the other whales) enhancing the 'human' side of curation, but also those content creator themselves that asked to have payouts reduced preferring it to be spread to others.
Inspiring acts like these need to be on a feed somewhere for the community to see and ideally strive for. Leaving the voting debate aside, it's the sentiment that needs to be shown. I'm not against anyone making money, but I truly appreciate those times people choose the non-monetary gain.
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I smel blood
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Whales are mysterious creatures)
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Yes they are. There is not just one type of whale either.
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I have a proposal for steem power rental market. Please give me your comments on it when you have a chance. Thanks,
https://steemit.com/steemit/@atomrigs/proposal-steem-power-rental-market
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I would be happy if i would get only one vote from a big whale.....
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Gosh, I wish a whale would have done this for my posts. I could have gotten more views, and maybe taught people a bit more. For now my audience is small, but I will keep trying to grow it. Hopefully people will continue to find my posts interesting as they have indicated in the past!
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This behaviour you described here is very interesting; we have to create good content and be lucky to be found; if I understood you correctly.
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@pery That, but also the Whales should (and some are) be looking harder for undiscovered talent, and reallocate resources away from the top of the trending list...
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"Greed will kill this project" This is an excellent and important words!
However, very disappointing, when constructive and exciting positions are not remunerated and votes. Bots vote only for those who are already popular and rich. And how to get into their lists, I do not know, and if it's possible at all.
I think we all need to change the whole system of remuneration. Start for example can be in order to remove the voting button from the home page. And leave within posts. And so reluctantly, but users will read entire posts.
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Greed under what context? We should all be greedy and compete for Steem Power. If we all do this then Steem will be a success. But I do agree, in terms of Steem Dollars, of course there is a cost of living for every blogger and you could make a case that if a blogger is getting $20,000 on every post that maybe after several payouts like this that they can ease up so someone else can get paid.
But this assumes the whole point of Steemit is just another job which people do for pay. It takes the fun out of competing for Steem Power, with the dream of becoming a dolphin and eventually a whale. Some of us set goals to for example reach 100,000 Steem Power and care more about that than the size of their payout on a single blog post. In fact, having a huge blog post while it does attract attention it can also make others envious. Yet if the real goal is Steem Power then when the price of Steem goes down the payouts go down but we can acquire more Steem Power from the payouts.
I think large payouts can be good, but I think its most important to keep Steemit fun for most people. New features can do that but I think the purpose of Steem Dollars is mainly to support the cost of living of bloggers so they can afford to keep playing, but the real reward is Steem Power which allows the players to feel good paying minnows and being a whale.
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This approach leads to the manipulation of public opinion. Technically it is censorship. This website has appeared recently, and many have not yet realized its totalitarian character. Or there will gather some representatives of the Republican party. Either will need to change the voting system. Why you need a resource? When you go ahead a few people and all other users follow them like sheep!
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It seems that an author's reputation matters more than the content delivered and hope that we can figure out a way to change that and make it more equitable.
Content is greater than the author and it must be treated as such otherwise the little guys will go away...
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I would rather not get the vote at all than to be played with in that way. If the post isn't worth voting for then vote for something else. If the post is worth voting for then let the blogger get the payout.
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Correct.
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"This will also allow them to promote material they like"... somewhere in the past I posted that one mans meat is another mans poison.. so Whales playing God is still just that. In the LONG term interest of Steemit I believe it is imperative that there is a wider distribution of 'power' / 'rewards' otherwise this concept will fizzle and die... or stagnate. Just my opinion.
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Well, you are a favorite of a whale and should earn well from now. Most posts are still slipping through the cracks where no whales are swimming. This makes Steemit still an unfair community which does not value the quality of the input - only the contribution of the inner circle.
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Great post. @smooth and @berniesanders are the two best whales I've seen as far as putting in the work/effort to get more authors recognized for their work. They are truly assets to the community! I'm sure there are others too (sorry if I didn't mention you too), but these two really show how it should be done!
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