Separating Content by Type: Making Steemit a Buffet and Not a Stew

in steemit •  8 years ago  (edited)

To win in the attention economy, Steemit must make an important change

fr

sm
Image: Creative Commons, Flickr, Tim Patterson

Over the last three weeks, the Steemit community has tried some fun experiments with content. These have included launching or boosting some new tags: # til (Today I Learned) , # news, and # funny. In the last few days, # newslink has joined the party. The main goal of these experiments is not to dilute the quality of content on Steemit.

The goal is to prove that shorter content, and even pure links, can succeed here

And these tags have succeeded, at least for a period of time. The Reddit-style # til became the # 1 tag on Steemit for a brief time and has spent much of the last few weeks in the Top 5 space. Launched on the same day, # funny has taken longer to gain a foothold, but is in the Top 5 at the time of this writing. # newslink also has been climbing into a high position.

Long articles have not been enough to get Steemit off the ground. Long-length content gives us a site like Medium, which is a good quality platform, but it limits us to attracting only the people who like to read or write long content. If we want Steemit to grow, we must recognize that 90% of our target population doesn’t have the time/patience to read or write long articles.

That means we need a place for shorter length content, not to replace the high quality material, but to supplement it. We must accept shorter length posts, perhaps 1-3 paragraphs in length. And we also should accept links.

li

The Reddit site has tens of millions of users. And it’s basically just a site where people go to paste links with short titles. Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and other social media sites reward people for linking content that “goes viral”. Except that those sites don’t pay people like Steemit does.

What if we could do what they do AND pay people for it?

But there’s a problem. And it’s making the diversification of content very difficult.

bu
sa

Why # til is Falling Quickly

After peaking at the # 1 position, the # til tag is falling. Soon, it will drop out of the Top 10 tags. Why is this happening? Is it because people have become bored with TIL already?

I don’t think so. Reddit’s TIL sub has been very popular for years now.

The short answer is that the content in Steemit’s # til has turned to shit. And the content is # news is even worse. There are still some very good posts in each tag, but the quality and format have become extremely variable.

How did this happen so quickly? I see two main reasons.

(1) Authors multi-tag their posts. What begins as a pure link within # newslink does not stay there, because people submitting posts are tempted (encouraged?) to add additional tags when they submit, up to five per post.

So a submission in the # newslink category also might have a # news tag along with something more specific like # food or # sports. When one post gets rewarded, others follow, and suddenly a tag like # sports may end up with a bunch of sports-related links, though these would have fit more squarely in # newslink only.

(2) Steemit has no real rules. Yes, @cheetah is out there spotting plagiarism and Steemcleaners has done a great job keeping the site tidy (thanks @anyx !). But short of plagiarism or spam, anything goes. We only have two tools for curating posts: we upvote/reward them or we flag them (in rare cases of spam or abuse).

Generally, Steemit’s curators are not heavy-handed. Flagging a post has very negative consequences for the author’s reputation. So curators are not flagging posts that fail to conform to format guidelines. Because a # sports post may be upvoted/rewarded by sports enthusiasts, it also will rise in another tag that is used, such as # til .

And so the only two methods of curation which we have available (the upvote and the flag) are both impossible to use effectively in maintaining tag “integrity”. All we can do is let the community and the market do what they will with the tags. It’s fascinating to watch this evolve, but often the tags end in a mish-mash of content and formats.

Also, there is no place to “sticky” any rules within a tag, as Reddit does within its /r/ subs. I like the fact that we don’t have rules. But how can we expect new users to understand ‘unwritten’ rules? We can’t expect that, so we do not flag them when their posts do not conform to ideals.

As a result, a tag like # til cannot maintain its integrity for very long. Three weeks ago, we began testing that tag with the simple model format of a 1-2 paragraph post + a link. Instead, people submitting posts in other tags (such as # sports, to take an example) began to notice that # til is a top-rewarded tag. And because a sports author believes his/her post is an informative one, that author may multi-tags it with # sports and # til (most people are using more than two tags). So pretty soon, the original # til format is lost. It just becomes another random tag that people add to every post for a while.

Unless it’s something clearly different like # photography, there’s nothing distinguishing about the posts that use a tag anymore.

So Steemit Becomes a Stew, Too

What we need on Steemit is a diversity of content where people can quickly locate and interact with their favored content area. Topical tags are not enough. They are not getting this job done.

We need long posts, short ones, pure links, FAQs, Wikipedia-type articles, videos, music, and much more. If I go to a buffet, I want different foods on different platters, clearly recognizable. Yes, people are being paid to curate Steemit, but there’s a difference between cleaning up a desk top and a garbage dump. Most don’t have the time or patience to pick through a stew to find their favorite bits of food.

st

If we build it, they will stay when they find it. When we have all (or even a few) of those clear types of content functioning well, the site will be attractive to people who come here for those different reasons. They will find something they like here right away. We will grab and hold their attention and participation.

But we’re not allowing that right now. Yes, we have the tags, but as I showed above, they aren’t very effective at delineating content. And that is especially true when the content is of a different type (e.g. a link or a video) rather than just a different topic (like history or sports).

What we’re doing is inviting people to Steemit for the sausage, but then throwing that sausage into a steeming stew full of vegetables, grains, meats, and everything in the kitchen sink. You came here to eat sausage? Sort through the stew pot and find it yourself. Hope you like vegetables, grains, conspiracy theories, photography, SteemSports, and openmic also.

And the only people who stick around are the oddballs (there are a few of us) who actually do enjoy or have the patience to sort through the whole spectrum of content. We'll eat stew or drink smoothie; others come for something more specific.

For all other potential users, we fail miserably to grab and hold their attention.

How Steemit Can Win in the Attention Economy

Give them what they want and let them sort/curate within that area. These last few weeks, all we have proven with these recent tag experiments is that the community will welcome different kinds of content. And that was an important step.

But we lack any way to maintain the separation or integrity of those different content types, unless they are something so obviously distinct in type and topic (e.g. photography) that a tag can be a more effective separator.

do

Some people come here to paste links, so let’s give them links, but they shouldn’t have to sort through thesis-length articles, photography, and other types of posts to find those. YouTubers come here, but they often leave quickly because we have no established place for video. Shouldn’t we have that? If we decide that there should be another Steem-powered site/layer/app that handles video, and not Steemit.com, that is fine.

But if we want Steemit to be the hub for all content on this blockchain, then we need to make that content visible and easily accessible for people.

vi
Image: Public Domain

Separate Content by Category

There might be other ways to solve the sausage stew problem. First, we could force authors to choose just one tag at submission, and narrow the content that way. Second, we could come up with some lighter-handed tool for curation, something less than a flag but somehow strong enough to discourage non-conforming content in a particular tag. But both of these “solutions” are limiting and both would lead towards more aggressive moderation, which may not be the direction we want to go.

I think the better solution is to separate the content on Steemit by type.

When people come to the site, they should see clear, separate areas for different types of content: long posts, short ones, pure links, FAQs, Wikipedia-type articles, videos, music, and so forth. Those types of content should be whatever Steemit.com wants to present. If Steemit.com wants to leave some type of content (e.g. music) to another Steem-powered site, then Steemit.com would choose not to compete for users’ attention in that particular content type.

Within each content type, people would still see the topical tags. For example, when they click on video, they would have a choice of videos in tags such as # animals # birthdays # WTF and so forth. Like different flavors of gelato.

ice

Should these different content types be formalized on the blockchain or simply presented in a more organized way on the site interface? That answer is above my pay grade. I am just a content person, so others can debate those more difficult questions. Having worked on the content here as an author and a curator, I can say quite honestly that we have some work to do on the site if we want to compete in the attention economy.

And the easiest way to excel at this is to give people what they want. Steemit should be a buffet of diverse content in clear locations, not a kitchen sink stew of everything they want (and do not) want mixed together.

I think that implementing this change would set Steemit up as a clear alternative to Reddit, Medium, YouTube, and a lot of other content sites. If we want peoples’ attention, we can get it and we can keep it. Doing so would launch Steem into the stratosphere and make this the “go to” place for content.

st

All images from Pixabay unless noted.

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

Very well said. We are just in the beginning stages of building out our platform. The cool thing is we have a community that will eventually agree how our content is presented now, and in the future. Let's have some fun with this.

Yes! And sometimes that slow evolution needs a little nudge.

Great article and I completely agree. Dividing steemit into sections will make a huge improvement in usability.

divide and conquer! :)

I agree totally. I think to sum it up, I would say that we need better organisation. Period.

Also, when a site is new, there is not much content TO organise. But now, there is a healthy amount of diverse content and it is high time that we address this issue.

It's like organising your media at home. You've got movies that all go in one place, music CDs(?) that go in another, books that go on a shelf, photo albums that go on another. And when we want a particular type of media, we can just go to that particular shelf and then search for the different genres under that section!

We just need to tidy up our Steemit house. Build some shelfs and put the diverse content in it's respective place!

To me tags have always been more about the theme of a post rather than what form the content takes, and it seems natural to interpret them thus. So your idea makes a lot of sense to me. Keep the tags in addition to sorting by content type (video, music, link, essay, etc).

Sounds simple, but the main problem is how to enforce the separation of content. You can't just slap on a video section, and then have people submitting written stories there instead of videos. To be effective, the site's UI should naturally limit content to the appropriate type. For example, to submit a link you would paste the link into a form, and maybe fill out another box on the form that allows, say, 255 characters to describe your link. And that's it. These restrictions would also have to be enforced at the level of the blockchain API, to prevent bots from bypassing the rules. Not sure if the structure of the blockchain itself would need to be changed, probably not as long as the APIs are the only onboarding point for content, and there was some schema for interpreting data properly when it's read off the blockchain.

This would go a long way toward improving Steemit. To some extent my carefully cultivated feed acts as a nice strainer to pluck out the meat I like, but it's a lot of work sifting through stuff in the first place to find the right people to follow, and it's not perfect (especially with all the random stuff that gets resteemed these days).

Excellent article @donkeypong! Thank you! We have been talking much about curation lately and few about content. A classic chicken-egg-error. Because before wondering about how to perfectly allocate votes and get rewarded for them, we should make sure there is good and nicely structured content on which to vote.
I am totally with you: for new users it's very hard to find a way through the jungle. You say that we have unwritten rules. Why don't write them down? And why don't limit tags to a maximum of 2? At least for some time to see if things would get better. No matter what your story is about I bet you will be able to perfectly tag it with two trendy key-words.
I also totally agree on the structure problem. It would be awesome to have a sort function. Like this the system wouldn't be defining a universal structure for everyone but offering an individual structuring tool.
Moderation is good but will require a lot of resources. I am not sure if we could provide them at this point of time. And a network which aims to become a mass medium in the future should have an excellent and easy to understand usability in any case. If we needed people to guide the traffic the system wouldn't be able to handle masses.

I agree 100%. Foodcourts at malls succeed ... and give individuals what he/she wants. They even succeed when they are right next to more upscale restaurants. The idea of TIL and News wasn't to replace longer posts, it was to add to them. They give people more of a choice based on his/her preference. That is exactly why I love them. My preference changes minute by minute depending on what else is going on at that moment. Sometimes I have time for checking out some long posts, sometimes I just want to hit some interesting material during a quick break. The same goes for writing and providing content. Sometimes you feel like a nut... sometimes you don't. (I usually do).

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I don't think it is should be divided strictly by type, but I do think that separate categories, like reddit (which can each enforce their own rules) should be implemented. For example, a news category may include links, or pictures, or articles, as long as they are about news. On the other hand, some categories may implement strict rules about type.

The biggest problem with organization currently is multi-tagging. When TIL became popular, authors starting adding TIL as secondary tags, and their posts would show up in TIL as well, even if not at all, even if not conforming at all to the (unenforced) expectations of the TIL section. That quickly made the TIL section reader-unfriendly, leading to a decline in popularity.

If the content were organized by type, then the submission editor could serve a gatekeeper function in terms of requiring a video in the video category or limiting the number of characters in a post, etc. Yes, it would be fine to have mixed content and overlap for certain categories. What you're suggesting might require more intensive curation within categories or tags. I am not against this, but it is a big job, so we need to think about how the market would incentivize that that sort of gruntwork also.

I don't disagree but as I said above the biggest issue is how multiple tags are handled. If people can just throw in TIL as the fifth tag on their post because TIL is popular, even if it is the right type that is still going to make TIL useless.

I agree. I'm not sure what the best approach is with the tags, but glad we are having this discussion and getting people thinking about it.

food definitely needs it's own content type separate from everything else, as I do not like to read about food, and there is so much of that on steemit

Apparently, I picked the wrong metaphor to use for my post, then!

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Please use a different word or explanation here:

"The main goal of these experiments is not to dilute the quality of content on Steemit."

That's not how dilution works. If you add water to oil, you dilute the purity the oil was at. If you have 100 posts of long content in one place, and you add 1 post of short content, the "purity" of long content in one place gets diluted by short content. That's simply reality. Just to make things more clear and defined.

"These last few weeks, all we have proven with these recent tag experiments is that the community will welcome different kinds of content."

Well actually, it's whatever the whales upvote and generate popularity for that many of the community users will support. If no whales (a small minority of the actual majority of the community) did not upvote these new post types, they would not be successful. It's not the "community" at large with low SP that makes these posts a success, but the whales that makes these posts a success with payout that draws more attention to the post, and thereby garners larger community support. Try an initiative without whales support, and see how long it last lol.

And the issue with all these content types, is with labor and reward. Time, energy and effort goes into to make well written pieces, art, and other content. Rewarding people from the same reward pool, for doing hardly any work, taking hardly any time, putting in hardly any effort, copy/pasting, and they get to reap rewards for sharing work other people did, rather than create work of their own. In the end, different content types require their own pool, platform or coin to create a value reflected in a currency base don specific content type. That way if something sucks but is only riding the tail of success in the overall platform and getting whale upvotes to success, then the rest of people don't have to get the potential rewards they make for lots of time, energy and effort, get sucked up by people who just copy paste and don't put in the labor to create valued content on the platform.

This way, a platform/token focused on created actual content, taking time, putting in energy, laboring to produce something real and have it valued, can actually be worth more, than another platform that doesn't create content, that simply copy pastes links or content to try to make money without putting in any real work. Then you would objectively see what has real value in a society. Original content creation vs. rehashing links and copy/paste. The quality of the community in the former platform would blow away everyone in the latter. Quality platforms matter to attract people.

Build the quality, and then quality will come. Build low quality, and you just get more low quality quantity of people that don't help to elevate the overall quality of the platform.

Thanks. Peace.

There is effort related to posting links too, as it requires to surface the respective content from the web. Having said that, I obviously agree, that the effort for posting links is much lower compared to generating primary content. So why not reflecting this with different payout schemes for the different content categories? Author rewards for link-postings could be at 10% of normal payouts and still make this a very attractive category, I´d assume. I made a proposal about this three of months ago.

Yeah, a different payout is 100% required. Time, effort, energy, labor, work to create content VS. no time, no effort, no energy, no labor, no work to copy/paste a link. Obvious difference in labor-value ratio.

The difference in labor-value will be handled automatically by competition. If links are overrewarded people will post more of them, and fewer and fewer will gain votes. Either the quality (and timeliness) required to be rewarded will go up, or it will become somewhat random, with those who post a link and win the raffle rewarded, but most who post links will not be rewarded much if at all.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Or. People will post more and more in an attempt to merely get lucky. Because its really not that hard to post 100 or 1000 links or 10000 links, even if you're making sure that your links are somewhat topical, there are a ton of link aggregators out there. It wouldnt be hard at all to find 20 or 30 sites like coin telegraph and link every single news story that comes out of them.

Even if this task could not be automated diretly with a bot of some sort (and i strongly suspect it could), there are already a ton of windows automation programs that would bring the compatative amount of effort to practically zero.

And even if the labor differential was not huge, there is another problem. The people who cannot make money writing "long content" (either because theyre bad at english or because they have nothing to say or whatever) are still offered a better hourly by link spamming.

That is to say that the raffle ticket we offer link spammers, for at least some of them, is the their highest hourly EV option. SO why not gather as many raffle tickets as possible.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Posting the links is kind of useless. They need to get votes. Probably the most successful link posters will be voting their own links to give them at least minimal visibility, which means vote power becomes the limited resource, and those doing it will will need to be selective.

Beyond that, even posting the links themselves requires bandwidth, which requires SP. So those wanting to compete by posting links will need to buy more SP, both limiting volume and driving up demand for SP.

And even if the labor differential was not huge, there is another problem. The people who cannot make money writing "long content" (either because theyre bad at english or because they have nothing to say or whatever) are still offered a better hourly by link spamming

You call that a "problem". I call it an opportunity to be more inclusive. Instead of shutting out people with weaker english skills or less captivating personalities, I'd rather have a system them offers them opportunities as well.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Posting a link is not effortless. Even to vote for a post on steemit with a single click is not effortless. It requires time to identify good content.
(Sure you can drop random links and vote whatever your mouse pointer accidentally finds, but such effortless strategies would not lead to relevant rewards, I´d say.)

Sure you can drop random links and vote whatever your mouse pointer accidentally finds, but such effortless strategies would not lead to relevant rewards, I´d say.)

One of the reasons (probably the main reason) that posting un-commentated links is now frowned upon is that this is exactly what happened

Really? I haven´t observed that. I haven´t seen many un-commented link-posts at all and I don´t recall any with a significant payout. Do you have examples?

I see that you clearly understand the fallacy of your own argument, having used no less than five tags. Why did you do that? To gain the widest possible audience for your post. Way to make stew while advocating for buffets. What's good for the individual is good for the platform. Just vote your preferences and let it work itself out. We keep trying to manipulate this thing and I feel the whole downfall of the price of Steem started with the asinine idea that every single post deserved reward. We split it and split it and split it, until only posts from groups splitting rewards get any. No one who is interested in being a serious content producer is interested in that model. Period.

Making my point. If you go back and look at my posts, I often pick no more than two tags.

But, you understand why the rest of us think that's bullshit, because when you want to reach the widest audience, you use five. That's what's known as hypocrisy.

It was two main tags. Steemitideas and buffet had nothing in them; I checked before submitting. The latter was for comedic value anyway. It was tagged accidentally in # newslink, since I forgot to add a space in the text when I was discussing this. So just two main tags; the rest is for illustration purposes only. Again, I rarely use more than two tags per post, sometimes three.

Rewards should be proportional to the work or the informational/entertainment value. The market and community can handle that one, I think.

entertainment value is way more important than amount of work, in terms of attracting a larger audience

I hope the people Steemit attracts would avoid or ignore copy and pasted links. So far, I haven't upvoted any links or link based postings. I get enough of that on FB. I have some faith that original art - writing, music, graphic art - will attract more people and get more upvotes than a link. Fingers crossed. Enjoy the day!

Oddballs?

I resemble that! ;)

I'm not sure what the solution to the problem is either... But I'm certain there are enough of us oddballs on Steemit to figure it out - eventually.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Blakemiles made a similar point a couple months ago. .

My observation then, as it is now, is that "forum" type format like 4chan or 2p2 is way better than the reddit type interface that we have. Part of the reason is that you have to pick an area and thats where your post is, rather than having multiple tags. Reddit kind of handles this by having subreddits.

Also, the method of display priority in most of these forums (last activity) is a far better method to move quality posts to the front of a particular forum or tag than anything we have now.

That oauth thing is allegedly being released today, and personally, im hoping there is going to be some easy way to use it to create a phpbb type interface.

It's not the "community" at large with low SP that makes these posts a success, but the whales that makes these posts a success with payout that draws more attention to the post, and thereby garners larger community support. Try an initiative without whales support, and see how long it last lol.

This is exactly what many people have been saying for 6 months but that people do not want to recognize. Whales and some collusion of the bots orient the payout. They respond by saying : create good and original content. Explain me!
Ex. One post with 947 votes, payout 216.90$, 5 views.

vieweb016.jpg

Post was made prior to counting views. That isn't a fair comparison.

Dont use just one tag.

First it would be against the usage of tags everywhere else on the net - connection things. If you write e.g. about the death of $famous basketball player, it is news. It is also sports. It is his name. And maybe economics too.

Also you leave out completely non-english content. Until now it was $language + categorie tag (like sports).

With one tag only you could not mark language. Or the topic. Both is BS.

This is pretty easy to solve. A tag like spots-cn or cn-sports for sports in chinese. Because, even if I am very interested in sports, an article written about sports in chinese has no interest for me (or indeed for anyone who doesnt read chinese). Two tags (CN) and (sports), manages to get the article in front of two not insignificantly sized groups who don't have any interest in it. CHinese speakers not interested in sports, And non-chinese speakers who are.

but it does not get in front of hypothetical me who is interested in sports by clicking on sports, even if I am someone who understands chinese.
Should I now look into sports, english sports, german sports and chinese sports? Maybe netherlands-sports too and switz sports and aussie sports because I can all understand them?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Well, im pretty sure aussies speak english and swiss sports would mostly be in german, so were onlhy talking about 4 languages. But yeah, i see your point.

I guess mine is that sure, if youre interested in sports news in dutch, german, english and chinese, you ought to look in sports-dutch sports-german sports-english (which realistically would jsut be sports) and sports-chinese.

HEre's my point though. Imagine steem has 100 english sports posts, 100 german sports posts, 100 chinese sports posts and 100 dutch sports posts per day. Thats 400 posts a day.

If these are meaningfully seperated, its a little more work for you. You have to check 4 different tags to get all the sports news youre looking for (which is 3 more than you would h ave to check if they were all together)

Now, consider the sports fan that speaks exclusively english. With the tags seperated, he can get his sports news in one tag. But for him, when the tags are combined, he has a sports section that, to him, is 75% gibberish, and no realistic way to filter out what (to him) is noise.

As a side note though, though its awesome that you speak and read regularly in different languages, most people do not. And even among the people that do, most people have one dominant language that they read most of their news/entertainment in. I speak japanese , spanish and some hebrew in addition to english, but i don't seek my news or leisure reading in those languages. My feeling (and i freely admit i cant back this up with evidence) is that even most polyglots are normally only looking to read one language when they come to a site like steem.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I spend hours a day researching and painting subjects I am interested in. Usually I combine art, food, health, forging, gardening as an example of the tags that truly fit my posts. One tag will not be a good fit for my herb tea series or my Pokemon art series I did with my grandkids. Most of my time is spent offline and my posts usually consists of at least 3 paragraphs and would fit the short post theme. I post my art, explain my technique and struggles with the piece, tell a short personal experience story, add links for authorities references and citations.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Tag spam is a problem - not only in this context. And limiting the amount of tags would encourage authors to use only popular tags.

Here's a proposal that might be controversial: curators should be able to delete tags, within certain limits. For example, a curator with a higher reputation than the author would be able to delete one tag, while upvoting, in the first hour after publication.

Of course, nothing would be deleted on the blockchain, but a specially formatted comment would be added so that the front-end would ignore this tag.

Is this censorship? I don't think so. Tags don't belong exclusively to the post or the author. They form a link to other posts, so others should have a say.

We could always just have another category thing that works with tags, tags could be content category while another one could be content type (link, long post, short post, etc).

I'll write a funny story and include my own art using a comic style. I can't be restricted to one tag, so that's a bad idea.

Some organization is a good idea of course. I would create areas for video, music etc but also leave an area that has all of it. I don't like just choosing one thing. Some people do, and I get that... but I like to stumble across things I never knew I'd be interested in until I found it.

If we started segregating ourselves by regions of the world for instance, I'd feel cut off from all this cool shit I get to see from around the world. I also enjoy seeing my own country get so much exposure whereas most people can only depend on stereotypes or go out and find the information on their own. I enjoy how people from around the world also combine video and music within their stories.

To prevent certain tag abuse, avoid telling people that certain tags have a better chance of receiving rewards than others. I was writing in funny and humor long before anyone said more people should do it and so were a few others.

good ideas here, thanks

I think it's am awesome idea. The restaurant analogy is on point.

You look for the appetizers in the appetizers idea, the drinks in drinks...etc.

I like it. :)

А как Вы будете выбирать тех кто говорит(пишет) по существу или льёт воду на любую тему лишь бы оставить пост, интересно? Я думаю что здесь будет уместен модератор сообщений, но с другой стороны это так утомительно.

I find this an excellent proposal. I like the idea of separating content into fundamental type-categories such as articles and links:

Selecting one such category would then filter all feeds accordingly.
Ideally, the category for links would be further split in sub-categories for simple link-drops and commented links.

seperating them definitely makes sense, especially if you can opt-out of them. So no videos and poems and links for me, just the good stuff.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I hope this doesn't get lost in the sea of ideas being put forth, but perhaps a simple solution is that a reader could mouseover an icon which would show the word count, number of external links, tags, and perhaps the number of images in a post and determine from that whether the post might have the qualities they are looking for. This leaves a lot of the decision making process in the hands of the reader, who probably has some idea of what structure he is looking for. A long article would have a high word count. If they are looking for pictures, the number of images might be relevant. If they are looking for links, then low word count and one link might be the perfect post for that moment.

I guess to summarize, if the fundamental building blocks of a post could be quantified (word count, link count, image count, tags) and displayed for the reader (mouseover display), it may make it easier for people to choose content without having to click through the link first.

I think this is a valid point. Facebook has many structured content types in one feed/stream, but they can be separated for discovery. Events, Videos, Links, Articles etc.
Is this technically possible with the current architecture? Is the post extendible with additional fields and can it have different layouts?

It's coming soon. The wait is almost over for communities. :)

I was starting to think (about the science category, what a surprize hu?) that the newslink posts were all over the place and that this was annoying. I do not read #science posts to get links...

Having a clear separation is a great idea, IMO! Let's hope to see it realized.

This is a really great summary of the situation, and you make good suggestions.
I only wonder whether steemit really needs to be so diverse, or if the steem blockchain could diversify instead, and steemit could specialise more?
However, it might be too late for that.
Upvoted and resteemed.

I think probably at times new tags will get maxed out as people chase trends but many old, relevant tags still get used and for curatirs filtering by tags the hassle for these things changes and maybe some curators specifically track trending tags but, well, mostly I don't think it is a problem.

But for some time, since at least september, there has been discussions about moderation systems based on renting names. This will be eventually implemented in some form and I think maybe subcategories of flagging, like specifically flagging a tag on a post and downranking it in the tag so it falls lower on the tag trending and hot view, for example. With antispam features to limit use for mischief, of course.

The new affiliated sites coming up will also include moderation systems. Like, imagine a curator name system with subject focus... It just requires a different viewer.

This is an excellent article and brings some thoughts into my mind.

I'll discuss videos first. I posted some videos by uploading them to YouTube and then copying the link in my Steemit post. This seems to work great and I don't know of any reason to change this. There may be a reason or two; I just don't know what they are.

Also, as I read this post, I began to ask myself "what are Steemit's goals?" My goal for coming here is to have a place where I can interact in a positive way with other content creators. I like the idea of getting paid for my music and short stories but it is not my main motivation. My motivation is to interact with other artists, get inspired by them, get advice from them, and maybe share a part of myself with the world. So far, mission accomplished.

To get to the point, Steemit should outline it's goals, develop metrics to measure where Steemit is at with regard to those goals, and then develop strategies to reach the goals they haven't met yet.

Finally, I enjoy the longer posts. I take time to read them and process them. I can do this on Steemit because I don't have all the pop-up distractions that I get on FB.

I appreciate the post. It provides good insight and ideas for an original content provider like me.

Thank you.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Very comprehensive and to the point. Now I see this point of view from a different perspective. I think that I agree with majority of it now. There shoudl be space for different content. We just need a proper and organised way to seprate different content to make the search easier for different users.

About TIL. I myself have tried to stay true to the concept since the beginning. I kept posting short, quality content using til as first and main tag, although I have added 1-2 other tags with it if the topic related to them.

I agree with you on this one totally.
I started Open Mic for example and since it started getting more popular some people are using that tag even when it has nothing to do with music. I don't mind sifting through it and understand people are trying to get some exposure, but when it's not related to the tag in any way it's a bit frustrating to open a post to discover it's not related.

We do need categories that offer people shorter posts. Most of the people online are not content creators. That's just a fact. If we want mass adoption we'll have to come to terms with that and find a way to cater to the content consumers and sharerers.

Thanks for bringing up a subject I hadn't thought about. The stew analogy is perfect!

Very fine points!

bom dia eu amei todas estas informações em sua postagem me ajudou muito,obrigado mesmo.

I would see two ways to do that.

One is to allow people to subscribe tags. Which is somehow "urge" and can be implemented in the UI.

The second way would be to be able to suscribe search folders, like "show me anything which is having the word "soccer" in the feed". If conditions are a bit flexible, like "contains soccer but not ronaldo", then people could have nice filters....

agreed.
perhaps limit to ONE tag?

When 2/3 of the page is taken by SteemSport ... How obvious is the problem ?

SS is worth a try to see if it works. If so, I hope they move it to their own site soon.

I wrote a post about this exact issue yesterday, where some scientists quantified the effect of copycat behaviors in a study of song popularity, somewhat simplified by having no bots and no financial rewards. If people have social information, they will use it.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@plotbot2015/experimental-proof-that-the-quality-of-your-posts-does-matter-some

I post it again here because of bot-voting. I had easily twice the number of unviewed votes as viewed votes, so even though some here may have voted for it, they may not have read it.

They didn't address the tagging issue, but the same process underlies it. People copy what seems successful. The only way to deal with that is structurally. One way to do that is by reducing the number of tags. I say that despite the fact that I personally like multi-tagging, because I like writing things that really are science and sf and comics, for instance. Even I have a hard time coming up with five tags for every post. Usually I fill in with one of the curation projects.

Excellent proposal! As a new user, I'd like to add that the current, mostly time-based categories are not very meaningful to me: home, new, hot, trending, promoted, active. I'd rather have a media type menu there, with the time-based categories used for a default sorting order that can be changed in a dropdown, like Reddit posts or comments.

part of the problem is that 'curation'....isn't.
I had a post that had 220 votes (a LOT for me), but only ten views.
how is that curation?

Curation projects have tried very, very hard to reward people who are posting great content from various fields and not getting enough rewards. In some content areas, there just aren't many people on Steemit (yet?) who follow certain types of posts. For example, Movies and Gaming are big areas on Reddit and other sites, but there haven't been that many posts yet in either of those areas. If we can reward the good ones that are here, even if the current crowd isn't reading them much, does that help us grow and appeal to the rest of the Internet? I think it does, because we've proven that Spanish, photography, and other areas CAN grow sustainably in the # of posts and quality when people see there are rewards available. Certainly, the whole thing is a huge work in progress, though, and we're learning more every day.

you miss my point...when only one out of a hundred voters actually read the bill that they are voting on...er...I mean post that they are voting on...

they vote on it without even having read it ...like congress

that's NOT curation..that's something else...(skimming the cream? maybe?)

hmmmm...it seems that 'page view' has gone away...odd that.

I noticed also that views were gone. Oh, wait, they're back again now. Yes, your point is fair. A lot of people vote without reading. There have been some suggestions that people should only be able to vote from the post screen and not the list/feed screens. I guess it's a function of curation rewards being worth something to people, which fuels the herd mentality to a degree.

let's be honest...call a spade a spade...ok?
perhaps there should be levels of reward for curation?
the congress level where you can vote on a bill unread
then another level where captcha is required
possibly other levels such as 'write a review"...

each higher and more difficult level would pay MOAH.

That's possible.

I suspected it was. Not easily I'm sure. I suggest that it be given some consideration.

Part of it is curators are lazy and want to automate things. If you automate you can only upvote either from a known list, or follow a real individual who is upvoting.

That's fine. Like I said in my post...call it the Congressional Level of voteing...(they don't read the post before they vote on it)

Hm. What about this: Since steemit is basically built on a platform of the reward system, which is how it's making a name for itself; what if instead of finding ways to chastise people for improper tag use we find a way to reward them for keeping within their tags, or using less tags?

I'm very new to this site, just over a week and a half, so I can tell you that there is not a lot of incentive at this point to make a new tag. I know, I tried, and it was sucked into a vortex. Those with a lot of followers can do this and gain momentum, but definitely not newbies. So perhaps another form of reward or maybe just recognition for new tags? A contest for who creates the best new tags...just throwing things out there.

That's a good suggestion also. I don't like chastizing either. The carrot is probably better here than the stick.

Yes, I'd say it's more true now than it was when I wrote it. Ever since the hardfork people already feel a bit less enthusiastic, the energy is lower in reaction to steempower having so much less effect. Of course that's true of any big changes made in a system until people become accustomed to it. I'm in the position to be more objective since I'm just beginning here and therefore I have a lot less risk involved than many...at this point anyway. I was initially thinking of buying bitcoin and turning it into steem then powering up until I'd built up a decent cache, but these changes are giving me pause. I will continue contributing content and building that way, powering up what I have because I do believe this place has the potential to be monumental. But I feel I have a bit more observing to do before investing money in addition to the time and energy I'm putting in. And I'm not really talking about my content as far as the time I put in, that's never a waste in my opinion, even if it all turned out to be one grand exercise. But making connections, reading and commenting on people's pages, joining projects, these things take a great deal of effort in the beginning-I'm not complaining, I love the challenge- however I definitely don't think it's the time to further discourage people by penalizing them. It may be the perfect time to discuss changes we want to see though and how to make them happen. Just my opinion.

So many food metaphors drool :D

  • Essay on point.