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Hi everyone!
It has been a while since I pen down any thoughts within the STEEM ecosystem as many who has been reading my thoughts are still unable to see a much holistic view of making STEEM more valuable outside the box .
So far I have noticed in this vast community that I have been observing, maybe it doesn't do enough justice as I am still surrounded by majority day-wage earners, home-owners and digital nomads, or the other side of the extreme traders and Steem-blockchain limited business dealings (like selling votes)
And recently ever since #newsteem is born many are taking the point to create quality content which rightly justified with their posts now...
With extra content creation and contests running at the same time.
More over the Steem Burn Initiative that encourages writers to preset beneficiaries to @null with a certain % to be sacrificed to keep the steem value up is now been taken seriously.
To be frank, some of my main posts ARE starting to place tiny bit of % to be burnt but most of the time the SCOT tokens are the ones are being burnt first due to their massive downfall values as most writers (including myself, because I need to replenish my lost fiat for #steemfest ) will earn the SCOTs more and then convert them back into STEEM or even to other pegged crypto currencies.
I am actually supporting this burn initiative, but with the limited ability I have...
Simply because I am one of those who are sliding off from an average earner to a below income owner because of family obligations; and just by burning steem, it will not really help.
Because how can you encourage struggling individuals with the need of real money (at present fiat-dominant time) to put food on the table when you are asking them to just sacrifice some of their % earnings for the greater good ?
Actually this could actually work due to steem value is sliding off its grip the last 1 year and that tiny % sacrificed for burning doesn't really hurt much as before...
Yet what if when STEEM / SBD actually starts to moon, will people still be able to just burn them off for the sake of maintaining the value of steem?
Personal Note:
Just so you know, I am not against #newsteem , just that there HAS to be more than this, and that is one of the reason why I am heading over to steemfest via my main account identity.
What if....
... there are other ways to keep the clutches of monopoly of just a mere few holding most of the STEEM crypto and keeps fluctuating when they really need to put food on the table (and sold of a huge bunch of crypto and plummet the steem value) ?
What if...
... we open up the holding of STEEM crypto coins outside the writers circle, with 2 possibilities:
- holding like bonds
these people just hold the steem and not even circulating: hence creating inaccessibility of such steem / sbd and reduce liquidated circulation? - becoming investors with "tiny dividens"
Unlike content curators who delegate to gain upvotes in return, these are sole investors sitting their STEEM in SP (Steem Power) as part of a strong curating team manually curating while they earn slightly a little bit of curation along the way?
This is what D.S.E.S initiative has been doing: with the help of real world charity investors who have been purchasing steem / sbd from @gtpjfoodbank (because they are donors) and park under this account while they keep earning dividen like stockholders.
Other delegators like @boxcarblue , @majes.tytyty, @mariusfebruary, @devann will get their dividens sent to them every 3 collection from this account when I login via Steemwallet / collect the rewards from other dapps.
(This actually allows me to send more at one time instead of tiny bits daily because these are all done manually)
But this is only part of it.
Currently in my spare time I am planning proposals and searching small businesses (in the real world) who are starting out in their business and needed exposure about Steem in order to absorb and limit the liquidated circulating STEEM in the market .
I am not sure whether this could be a brilliant idea / a disaster, either way, from my limited (and a little simple-minded) view of economics is: when circulating steem in the market reduces, its value starts to increase.
This is a win win situation for those who are hodling the crypto (like long-term bonds) and let its value keep rising.
And the more bond hodlers out there, the less steem floats in the market; the less steem floats in the market, the more valuable its value (because of the scarcity in the market)
That being said, this proposal is not overwriting the Burn initiative
Why?
Because when this runs hand-in-hand, the scarcity of steem in the market could (theoretically) increase, hence its value as well.
What do you think? Will this idea work?
And this is only 50% of my idea revealed. Because no doubt right now buying steem via charity investors is working, but that is just not enough for mass hodling because we are still a small number of people in a community compared to 7 billion people (not counting most of the kids) in the world; and many more and more people starting their entreprise business.
I know I am one of them who's at least trying .
Are you a business owner in Steemit who is trying to introduce your products to the world of Steemians?
If you are, look for me at @littlenewthings#8151 and let's talk!
Until then
HQ @littlenewthings
#dses initiative member.A technology can come and go; but when a lifestyle is applied to it, it becomes a new revolution.
Good morning @dses and everyone else reading my comment
Burning is something trendy right now. And I'm fully aware that many people consider burning tokens as a way of bringing value (by reducing inflation) to token and somehow it supposely (by magic) should increase price of such a token.
In theory maybe that explanation make some sense, however this believe is fundamentally flawed.
Behind selling pressure are always those users/investors who care about profiting/cashing out their rewards. Those people obviously will not burn their tokens. Why would they.
The very only group of users promoting idea of burning part of their rewards are the same ones (believers), who would otherwise most likely power up those tokens.
So let's ask ourselfs a question: does it change ANYTHING at all if part of newly received STEEM would be burned or powered up? Not really. Impact would be close to non-existing. Plus it wouldn't create new demand for STEEM/PAL/LEO etc.
The only reasonable way of burning tokens is by creating some ulitily that has a value (existing example: promoting post to trending page on PALnet/SteemLeo) and burning tokens. That would make sense.
To illustrate what I mean, I would use steemword.org as an example:
it's very useful took, and if monthly membership would be introduced, which would require buying 10 steem and burning them (sending to @null) then it would both: reduce REAL inflation and also bring demand for STEEM token.
Yours, Piotr
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Burning just seems to make the little guy be a sucker at the expense of the big whale.
Steem needs to figure out how to reward users from using and steem and being active here.
That is the core issue that is always ignored
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That is within the real of the blockchain. Time to think outside of the box.
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I like my answers to be as summarized and clear as possible.
From my point of view, what makes STEEM have a market value is the fact of rewarding for the publications and the votes they produce, generating profit.
I think the best way would be for that STEEM to become STEEM POWER, Tokens and even trade on serious platforms.
Also projects like @steemmonsters do can generate wealth if that benefit is transformed into SP.
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Hence @olimiesma
After the rewards of generating profit, you have steem in your hands; what's next?
That would be in every person's mind.
Would it just be selling off for fiat and be done with it?
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I agree. Burning tokens doesn't increase the value of a coin. Price of a token doesn't depend on its quantity. Bitcoin is not valuable just because it is rare. But, it is valuable because people see value in it. On the other hand price of steem is not declining because of increasing numbers of Steem and SBD. In fact, no SBD is being printed these days but, its price is also declining. The price of Steem is going down because of faulty strategies of Stinc and top witnesses who are eager to kill the goose which lays golden eggs. Too much greed is the main reason behind the fall of STeem.
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Yes you are seeing as what I am seeing. 👍🏼
People got to see beyond the social media, content creation, upvote or down vote hedge, then it can work to make steem valuable.
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IMHO there is no need to burn any crypto at all. The code was desined in such way that any entity getting the reward should USE it. The only cancer here is the need to transform that crypto into fiat. If every network participant can BUIDL something on that network that would be useful for others, then there will be no need to transform it into fiat or even burn the tokens. The total supply of one coin is not the integer number. Burning 10^4 coins from a network with scalability of 10^-8 and a total supply of 10^12 (ex) will have no action on the whole network. The best thing to do is to make sure the members of the network can USE the coin as a form of payment for many products and services.
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You hit the jackpot @concorde. That's what I am thinking too.
And that's one of the reason I am going to Steemfest, to see if there're any projects heading that direction.
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@concorde has stated it very well - value comes with demand, and that will drive apparent scarcity. When you have more buyers than sellers in the market, the price will go up.
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Exactly, @jdkennedy
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Think in practical terms.
How does this work in the real world?
Consumer side inflation is a function of LIQUIDITY and DEMAND not "total dollars in existence".
Have you ever heard a government or central bank advocate BURNING MONEY?
No.
When QE1 and QE2 and QE3 were executed, trillions of new bills were printed, but inflation barely rippled, WHY IS THAT? LINK
Spoiler Alert! - Because the new bills were SEQUESTERED in VAULTS.
Powering-up your STEEM has almost the same effect as BURNING IT.
Powering-up your STEEM is like putting it in a VAULT.
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That is only one way, because powering up actually still create new steem.
I may be wrong, but when new notes are created they are yes still in the vault but it is still creating a lot more volume even though it is not being used.
The main thing is that we have something being created yet to be widely used, that creates the demand for it.
Your idea is a good one but only having the same amount of "citizens of steem" to keep powering up and holding doesn’t truly solve the inflation on a long term basis.
The most important question right now is what else can we do with liquidated steem (to increase its value of usefulness) besides trading off for fiat to put food on the table / spend off for something tangible, yes?
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YOU ARE RIGHT!!
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Burning steem or sidechain tokens doesn't make any difference when there isn't much demand for them anyway. Whales control steem's price. Instead of burning, everyone should always power up and help decide token distribution. That... Or just sell.
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Don't just sell.
If there're business entity outlets that allows you to use instead of just sell your tokens, would you consider it?
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There are almost none of those, which is why the two options I've mentioned are pretty much all there is to it.
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That's because they are waiting for someone else to do that for them.
But that being said, IF there was that option, would you use it instead of just selling it?
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When that finally happens, steem price is finally going to go up. So yes, I would hold it, use it, delegate it, whatever. But it's just not going to happen anytime soon.
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Nothing takes instant.
But it is always good to look out of any initiative. It could just be right around the corner about to happen.
🙂
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Nah. Not anytime soon. Unfortunately.
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Burning make sense if you have a certain amount of coins reserved for special tasks and you know you don't need then anymore. But these are coins that are not issued so far or at an escrow account.
To burn tokens in circulation does not change anything. Less coins - higher value, more coins - lower value, the product stays the same. You need to generate more demand. If the demand is not there an (just optical) higher price for a coin does not help.
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Burning steem to increase value does not sound right to me
It will not be of major importance to the stock exchanges for it is the market that decides the prices of buying and selling. When someone with large accounts is still willing to dump quantities of steem on the stock exchange, the price will not rise
But there are those who make big money (TRADING) on the stock exchange that are profitable because the prices are low. I will not elaborate on this, but it is also a contributing factor to the low price.
Other measures are needed to increase the price of STEEM over time.
Marketing costs a lot, but we should start with massive marketing to our own who are part of the community.
Without starting with our own members first, it will be useless to make progress. Big Investors come when they see that there is a substance to what we do and that society is growing and solid
Too many people complain about screaming wolves when the price is low without even doing anything about it. Yes, because we have some blame ourselves here.
@streetstyle has come up with a great action #SPUD
"SPUD 6" STEEM POWER UP DAY October 1, 2019 is now running for the sixth time and SPUD is increasing in scope each time.
Many people here become familiar with what SPUD is and join.
There is also a competition with good prizes
I believe SPUD will be one of the bigger events here at Steemit
Why is SPUD good?
What we see is that small accounts now stop taking out their profits and they build their Steempower and have gained an understanding to keep the SP
Many small accounts that turn down their power to sell their Steem on the stock exchange make a large amount each week and have an impact on price
What is also happening now is that several of those who join SPUD have started to buy Steem to increase their strength in SP.
The more people who see that benefit, our economy will be healthier in Steemit
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Hello, my friend.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term "burn" means to destroy the STEEMs (?). In this way, the price of STEEM rises. Right?
But originally there wasn't a finite amount of STEEM created, like all blockchain projects? To avoid inflation?
I have an idea, I don't know if it's crazy, but what would happen if they paid to burn the STEEMs?
This way, the price is increased, isn't it? I guess if there is less STEEM, the price will have to go up, because of supply and demand. These are just conjectures.
Good to see you :D
Stay in touch
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as stated before, I think the community underestimates the market forces. Steem's price is just not going to head anywhere until the bear market for steem is over (which might be in the next couple of months):
https://steempeak.com/steem/@tobetada/what-drives-the-price-of-steem
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Thank you for your feedback and for sharing this link with us @tobetada
Going to check it out right away,
Piotr
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Burning can perhaps create scarcity and drive up demand and price however burning should not be an answer. I agree with @knircky, if there was a clear cut reward for active users everything would look up for steem. Investing more into what and who is already invested makes more plausible sense. Trying to burn and neglecting what is already, may be greedy and neglectful. I don’t believe burning will increase value it may increase scarcity but if the people that believe in the project no longer hold it as valuable it won't matter how much of it there is, if they all decide to abandon the project. I believe in building from within rather than trying to make things look good from the outside i.e burning coins to increase demand. How about increasing interest and thus increasing demand. Steem has to have a niche; a use, a project, a reward, something that pulls in interest and users and demand. IMO
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For the most part I agree with you @crypto.piotr. I think something like what LEO is doing, burning the rewards earned from bat browser makes sense as it takes care of that supply and does not put the leo team in a position to decided to sell, powerup or hold liquid. It's a sure thing with the burn.
And like you mentioned in the steemworld example, that is a win-win. I like that cus it creates demand and helps cut inflation.
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How about buying local business vouchers (from F&B, to grocery) that are on-board with steem blockchain so that they can spend for lesser amount and at the same time the business entity would be able to stake on their account to help the community later, @crypto.piotr?
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This is not something new in the crypto world. However, it's usually used when the token value is high and the owners maintain stability. But I also know when tokens burned (Iconomi is the example, from last year) it had no effect on price. The price of token has fallen sharply regardless of burning.
Just my five cents, I'm not a professional in this crypto economy...
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Steem supply is already gigantic thanks to whales stocking up and controlling reward distribution while the price doesn't increase. No matter how much we burn, there will always be too much supply thanks to them.
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I think burning could be helpful but I also think reducing inflation could help increase the value of the tokens without having to just waste the tokens already in circulation.
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Steem supply is already gigantic thanks to whales stocking up and controlling reward distribution while the price doesn't increase. No matter how much we burn, there will always be too much supply thanks to them.
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I absolutely share your views. We need to create utility for token burning.
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This is your opinion. Burning steem wont increase demand for it in the short term, but should demand actually increase as everyone hopes, there will be less supply to go around. Are there other better ways to burn up the supply by creating outside demand for it first? Sure there is. But what difference does it make to you, if I want to send 4% of my rewards to @null, or somebody else wants to create a burnpost? This seems like a pointless argument to make because it's a voluntary exercise, and at the end of the day, it still creates less supply. If you actually coupled that with people needing to purchase and burn steem to perform various operations such as promotion, it's even better.
Do companies buy back their own stock in order to increase the demand for it? No, they do so in order to decrease the supply. So that if there is demand for it in future, there is less available on the market, and you have more price appreciation. It's a long game not a short game.
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Steem supply is already gigantic due to whales' sp and their potential power downs.
We have a trending tab. If they used it as the default tab instead of trending, people would use it. They don't do it. They don't care.
You know, I paid @smitop to develop TWO THINGS that could help with this. But no witness or steem app developer cares. (except for SBI's joesavage)
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Rather than an incensitive to burn the tokens, I'd rather see an incensitive to buy & stake the token, like a page specially giving visibility to those of the same "level" of staked token than you, which would give you more chance to interact with the people who are in the same staking group as you, encouraging you to network with them & so on...
As for the burn, it may be flawed for steem itself, but it's a very good way for the steem tokens, who works on a different type of economics than steem itself.
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👍🏼This is one way, yes.
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Promoting content by burning SBD is not just burning token for nothing!
It's an advertisement system that enables outsiders to use a built-in system and promote their products.
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Burning is a way to combat inflation.. But ultimately it's those with large stake that receive the most of it... and therefore decide our fate.
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@dses, I hope you don't mind that I will share this publication with wider audience as Im interested with other users opinion on this topic
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Not at all @crypto.piotr we need many voices and ideas and let's get out brains cracking outside the box.
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This goes for anyone reading this post, not necessarily you OP..
Instead of burning it, send your STEEM to me with the memo 'burn' and I will put it to great use powering it up and curating authors for c-squared and helpiecake.. I'd love more SP to both earn more reward AND to be able to reward more to others.
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I have heard about coin burning few weeks back and sports token is the first one I think. I feel like they're doing because steem price too down and if in case it crosses over 1$ then I don't think anybody will think to burn it.
It may be food idea to burn and reduce the supply so that price go up but i think that there should be another way and this is bot full proof method.
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Hi @dses
After reading your publication I could reach a conclusion those who most burn their steem are those who have less, unlike those who have a lot of Steem simply do not burn it.
But I think that if 75% of all of us who are living or that we are really active things will be different and most of them if we were benefited from burning and lowering inflation, in the end what we are looking for is that this currency be profitable, and especially for those who do not have and are in search of economic freedom.
Greetings from Venezuela a country that fights for its freedom.
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Thanks to @crypto.piotr for inviting me to this post.
I have just been reading the comments for ... quite sometime. and I am confused. burning Steem in little quantities seems a token effort- more a marketing move than anything else.
The problem here is the HUGE supply pipeline. If you shoot an elephant with a pea-shooter he gets shot for the record, for the record only!!!
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Yes, marketing plays a very crucial part too. The whole thing is that it cannot be done only one side; i.e: burning steem to keep it alive.
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Read @logiczombie 's reply here. Damn good idea
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So basically asking for businesses to invest in STEEM...
What would you be selling them, apart from the usual crypto talk and volatility opportunities that historically are attractive but lately might be falling into what economists call reassessment.
I feel tempted to comment on the people coming on STEEM to look for another source of income... but I will refrain due not believing it was your core objective with the post.
I am surprised about the amount of tags you used here. They all fit... and that needs work. Some of them I am not sure. Either way... I must say, I like your bold attitude.
I will be watching what you do more often.... and I am interested on seeing how you propose your 50% idea to investors (if you are sharing that).
Cheers
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Thanks for noticing my posts and yes I am still throwing the ideas.
But no, it is not 100% about crypto talk but something else more (I hope), and I am still thinking how to attract outside investors and at the same time appease the current community.
I am about to embark on this journey with a pilot project; in the light of helping a friend in her family business. And if that really helps, it could somehow be a model to attract other SME to look at Steem less of an income source as you have pointed out rightly (for many content creators and especially suffering citizens in #Venezuela) but more of keeping the whole STEEM idea flowing until its value moons again. (with fingers crossed!)
Thank you so much again for stopping by. This post has indeed attracted many views that I find it resourceful to see how some people (from different parts of the world, which I feel is mainly from the West side) looking at Steem.
I will slowly once again construct another post with deep thoughts and consideration, and maybe, like you said, bold enough to step on another few more toes and tails even to hope that a community this close together can really start working together as an ecosystem - decentralised.
Have a great day!
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Honestly i don't know if burning steem brings up the price or not because price is something traders/investors decide so unless we get a huge high buy wall price won't get much of a nudge in my opinion
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That is in the world of trading yes. But what happens when we think outside of the box ?
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Trades impact the prices does it not for example lets say they burnt 10000 steem but the lowest sell on trade sites is below 0.2$ with a wall of 100000 the price won't go up easily because of the sell wall and since that one user isnt selling for higher it would make everyone else sell only a tad bit higher meaning sell walls of 0.2 0.21 0.22 like that
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From the way it has been explained to me is that since burning reduces that amount of tokens out there it helps it maintain it's value. Kind of like having a corner on the market so to speak or a numbered edition. Such as owning an Edsel vs. owning a Toyota. There are very few Edsels left and numerous Toyotas, so the value of the Edsel is higher because there is less. I know this sounds kind of silly it was one of the ways it was termed to me that made sense.
I think with Steem itself though it is a tad scarier because we do have real money invested so to burn Steem (which makes complete sense to do in light of what burning does)feels more like burning a pile of money. There would be more apprehension in doing so.
I am crypto ignorant so this is just my view from what I understand things to be. If I am totally off base please enlighten me.
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Well, in many ways, you are actually right @tryskele
But what if.... we burn it ANOTHER WAY ?
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In SportsTalkSocial they burn the Sports tokens you spend on promotion. That way the author of the post does not lose out. Whether such burning does help in curbing inflation depends on the number of new tokens being introduced into the system and number of tokens burned.
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Ah, that sounds interesting. I should take a look on that. Thanks @devaan fr the heads up!
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You are welcome, @dses.
SportsTalkSocial is one of the better tribes on SteemEngine. They have a vibrant and helpful community. If you are into sports you should check it out.
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Yes, I believe that after pairing up with Actifit it is now in a much better position as a tribe where more people ended up using that hashtag as part of the content creation.
The only thing is that because of that very reason many are also earning more and dumping at the same time that causes its value to decrease tremendously
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Burning Steem might be a good idea in some respects, and in some instances. However, if one needs additional income to just "put food on the table," it would not be wise to burn Steem. In that case, the wisest thing to do would be to NOT burn any.
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That is true @majes.tytyty ; but trading it off to another crypto then to fiat just to put food on the table will not make sense either as the community is small, there will be too much production of steem, hence the inflation.
True?
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Good point.
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I started reading you post... and then... I realized I was not going to have time to read it with the satisfaction I wanted... so I am dropping here a quick comment, for me to later come back for my real comment.
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you sound very mysterious @forykw :)
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Lol
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Nice on the bond coverage. I had not heard of D.S.E.S. So is not stating what it stands for as a way for motivating an Easter Egg hunt or is DSES embarrassed about its name? Also @littlenewthings hangs around WLS, no?
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Hey machnbirdsparo dses stands for Decentralised Sustainable EcoSystem where I find ideas for mass adoption of people with crypto, in any form.
It starts with steem because I was first in Steemit.
However I am to busy with real life obligations I couldn't cope with so many platforms and I haven't been in WLS for quite a while now.
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Outside of fiat, I spend most of my time in EOS. Steem is part of my weekly to dos.
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I see
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Everyone is burning tokens these days so why not? Seems to work..
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The interesting question is, how MANY are they are really burning, and how MANY are they who are big enough to create a difference in value?
Hence that was my post and my question. Will it really work if it is just the planktons and minnows doing?
That would take A LOT of people to burn together.
Hence... the trend, I suppose? 😊
Thanks for sharing your view.
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I'm one of those who can't afford to burn Steem. I fear some may view it as selfish or that I am lesser because I am not burning Steem. Right now, the only way I can help the greater good is through what I create. And I know that is good enough for most people. Some needs need to take priority on others. I am not harming anyone, so don't expect me to harm myself. That's how I see it.
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Thank you for your interesting view and I will try check out your profile later on what you create.
As in many sense, when one post is created, more STEEM is generated (unless you literally power up and start giving back to the community with curation - at the same time you earn 50% in return).
With that in mind, inflation continues if there are no other outlets to use them practically, to fulfill real time needs, otherwise, it is nothing but a game of creating content and be self satisfied. 😊
Which I believe many community builders and spearheaders do not think that way.
Otherwise Steem would have died 4 years ago.
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@dses, In my opinion Burning is effective step but i think that, we are missing one formula yet Burning = Scarcity is there but to support this we don't have Steem Scarcity = Mass Adoption. So in my opinion Burning aspect can show results in long term.
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You are very much correct on that @chireerocks .
Hence it is time to throw the ideas around for that, even though it is kind of hard.
Burning is just one tiny part of it, and it will not sustain long if there isn't a mass acceptance about Steem.
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That's true.
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It is an interesting topic, much more when the exchange value of the Steem has fallen almost to half of when I began to participate in this platform, but I fear that if the great players or Whales, do not release what they have saved as bonuses, no there will be much that can be done at the moment.
The idea of generating content and burning already focused on the subscription of services seems to me a possible proposal, although it may take a little more time.
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Well, perhaps it is time to look outside the box right now, as what I have been doing for the past 2 years.
And so to state, burning isn't bad, but the only thing is it might not have large enough of impact nor will it last long enough to keep the whole idea of "people keep coming back for more steem"
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Hello @dses, interesting analysis, very good proposal.
We will see!
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And I am looking for more people to think together
Thanks for stopping by!
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You're talking about a real-life finance product for a global market of customers.
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Yep.
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Curated by the HoboDAO!
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Congratulations @dses! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :
You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOPVote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
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Dear @dses
It me again.
Sounds interesting. Could you tell me more about it? Did you collaborate already with any businesses already?
Upvote on the way!
Yours
Piotr
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Hey @crypto.piotr !
First of all, thanks so much for bringing in so many people's attention to this post. You really rock!
Second thing is that I am (in prayers and reverance... haha) planning and hopefully launching a pilot project of 6 months to help a friend not only to step into the Steem world but also to help her family business once again flourish through technology; just like how @gtpjfoodbank has caught the eyes of much more through the availability of the Steem blockchain.
I'll let you know once that idea of 6 months plan is set up! Stay tuned!
Cheers,
@littlenewthings
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Congratulations @dses!
You raised your level and are now a Minnow!
Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:
Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
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