Summary of my thoughts on what does and does not constitute flag “abuse,” and why as long as Steem is a free-market enterprise, the platform has nothing to fear.
Thank you for watching.
~*~
~KafkA
Graham Smith is a Voluntaryist activist, creator, and peaceful parent residing in Niigata City, Japan. Graham runs the "Voluntary Japan" online initiative with a presence here on Steem, as well as Facebook and Twitter. (Hit me up so I can stop talking about myself in the third person!)
Thanks for the multiple shout-outs and the support brother! All in all, today has definitely been a beautiful example of what's possible on Steemit, and in society in general. One "dedicated asshole" can only do as much damage as the rest of the community allows them to do.
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You wanna bet?
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I hope a lot of new adopters watch this vlog because it's Steemit 101.
A great explanation of how the platform is supposed to work for those who are new and encouragement for those feeling dissolutioned.
Those of us who have had time to network and gain a following will absolutely be able to fight against downvotes but there will always be those who write posts that are worthy of attention that get flagged out of existence who have no support. It's a shame but a reflection of the real world and life in general. Those are the Steemians I hope will hang in there and keep going until they do get noticed. The market will prevail.
As I stated earlier none of us want to see Steemit turn into a shitty blockchain Facebook clone which it would if the true freedom of expression we seek to defend is compromised.
Great post Kafka, you're a top bloke.
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Thanks, @tremendospercy.
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Are you saying that by allowing him to destroy us (as you very well know, most new posters already find it an uphill struggle without you agreeing to it being made even more difficult for us), in the name of free expression - whose free expression, the posters, the talents who are our treasure, or these vindictive small-minded people.
Nobody is asking you take away freedoms, what we are asking is that you wise up and get rid of rules you've made for empowering people to harm others. As a matter of fact, downvoting is NOT needed. If I do not like a post, I can post a negative comment, or just ignore them. By being ignored they are punished.
Under the guise of promoting free expression, you are encouraging these people. You are telling all those who have enrichened Steemit with their talent, that they do not count, only the sick and perverted do!
Thanks, @tremendospercy.
(Though my thanks is not given in the same manner as below, by @kafkanarchy84)
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I like the logic you are using arguing the free market. But even in a free market there has to be some kind of regulation. Instead of government regulation we the people will chose to regulate what we buy and consume...but from what I’ve read there never has been a free market, big government, big money moves in and tries to control the ecoomy to protect their investments and investors.
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Yes, precisely, that is non-violent, non-coercive, free market action.
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I just watched your video -and you did speak well and much of what you pointed out is true and right. However, as long as ANYONE is empowered, through flagging, to coerce others, then flagging can only be considered a form of violence.
Yes, we must not ask for rules that take away our freedoms, but, stopping the flagging or limiting it to one flag per week, for instance, that does not take away our freedoms, it actually helps to guarantee our freedoms. Aslso, I've asked before, we must have a group of moderators who check each flagging and if there was no good reason, thne the flag should be reversed and the person who flagged should be flagged and the sum taken from him awarded to the intended victim.
All freedom comes with responsibility, but to assert that we should get together to form a strong group to fight against berniesanders and others like him, that is totally impractical. I am still at the early stages of trying to make myself a part of he community and am struggling to get ANYONE to read my posts - so how, in practical and not just theoretical terms, am I supposed to be capable of gathering posters by a number great enough for fighting people like him? None of this would be a problem if the investors make the change so that flagging costs or they stop it completely.
Flagging is only a tool for abusing and bullying those I do not agree with; it is not needed as a right!
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Goddammit! Would whoever drops by this post please please "listen" to this man's words and take in what he is saying.
I was getting chills listening to it, he was that damn accurate. I felt like putting together a post about this very same issue, but when this extremely reasoned guy has done such a perfect job, why bother? Pearls of absolute wisdom and just the pure "truth" the way it is...
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Thanks, @ezzy. Really appreciate that.
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i think flags are okay, the problem is in emotion aspect and in the name of flag, i think we need downvote and flag separate functions. So people will not be so emotion if someone downvote their content . Ye i understand that money means a lot, but still if we have flags separate from downvotes then people will use them more and not be so shocked, like its bullying and so on. In youtube for example video can have a lot of likes and dislikes its ok, but if someone see something bad then they flag it.
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I second that. It makes no sense that the same button works for expressing opinion on payout and for tagging spam. That's some bad UI right there.
To many the term "flag" is offensive. If there was an upvote and downvote voting scale in the same interface, people wouldn't get as hurt by said flagging. I know I wouldn't. But as it is now, flagging by users who have more power than they can use feels like a kick to the face, especially to newcomers who invest a lot in their work.
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You may be on to something there. I have had similar thoughts before, as well.
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Sir Percy sent me this link, and I love him for it. @kafkanarchy84, you nailed it. This is one of the best discourses on this issue that I have seen. Best 8 minutes a Steemian could spend.
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Thanks. I really appreciate that.
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The vested interests will always resist "Free Markets". We need to expect opposition.
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In many ways, this is so true, but as long as the vested interests are not violent, as they are in the real world, the vested interests are a necessary and vital part of any free market. Self-interested, individual economic actors are what allow a market, and thus individuals to thrive.
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That's a good point I had not considered.
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Thanks Graham, another great post. Totally agree. Upped. Resteemed
@dakini5d
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Good advice @kafkanarchy84. I agree, the market will decide the content that people want to view. Generaly though, if something is not for me....I just move on to something else. Not my place to decide what others believe.
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That’s what I do too, usually. Or just comment.
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I don't really know anything about free market but it sounds about right to me what you are saying. I also celebrate the expressiveness of people here. Asking for regulations is really bad. However, the blockchain could be improved with better flagging mechanisms.
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This is the reality check I think we all need to see at the moment. Great job @kafkanarchy84
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This is bloody fantastic! One of the best things I'd seen on the subject. Good for you, Sir. Truly.
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Cheers!
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This is a great explanation.
The logic of the explanation is perfect, it really means a good explanation for new users Thank you
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Thank you, @dobartim.
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Good thoughts. I have been turning this situation over in my head and I'm not really sure what I think about it. So it's nice for me to hear all opinions. If you are a nobody—I'm really a nobody, a Steemit newb with 0 upvote power. haha. Anyway, I'm learning about this as I can.
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i agree with your thought
)
(
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Really helpful post thank you @kafkanarchy I will follow you work
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wow .. nice
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wow .. boring
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good news, the more skrimpi!
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As long as piles of tokens dictate who has power, it's pretty much a downward spiral.
I'd love to be proven wrong, but the spam/bot/power-up stuff isn't helping.
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I notice that nobody answered the person who has sowed discord and hate over I don't know how many posts of many posters - and challenged you right here.
You cannot talk of free market when ONE person, registered a number of times, uses Flags like weapons to destroy any posts he disagrees with, effectively censoring them.
I've already been threatened that I will be taken down to zero, so this is very real. What annoys me even more, is that I am being compelled to waste my time dealing with INJUSTICE, instead of writing and reading /seeing posts by others.
One of the very successful authors who has provided much reading pleasure for us has had her money taken from her, because this same person decided she is earning too much, and now she is thinking of leaving Steemit. I have seen a number of such penalties being imposed, as if this is a dictatorship and that person is entitled to decide what we publish and how much we earn - as far as I know, this is not applied against any of the whales, so you guys at the top are happy to let this continue?
Here are a few examples of extreme abuse:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@michelle.gent/sorry-everyone-i-m-going-to-be-taking-a-break-for-a-while
https://steemit.com/steemit/@dbroze/so-why-is-there-a-group-on-steemit-flagging-down-anti-vaccine-and-exposing-pedophile-ring-content
(I personally do not give a shit if he is anti anti-vaccine people and is also PRO-PEDOPHILE abuse of children! He is free to write his own articles proving himself. He does not have the right to act as sole arbiter of what we are allowed to read or see.)
Actually, as far as I know, he has not shown talent at writing, painting, poetry, photography, or intelligence at ANYTHING else (for instance, ethics, philosophy etc), apart from the talent he has shown for destroying what Steemit had come to mean to all of us.
How dare you defend him and people like him, while, at the same time pretending to care about us?
As for the argument that the money does not belong to the poster until the week is up - that is pure bullshit! If I choose, of my free will, to allot money, through an upvote, that is, in a sense, MY money, for me to spend as I wish. I am not given back that money so that I can spend it elsewhere, am I? No, the money is taken back for a 'reward pool'? So, it IS being stolen, whether from the person I gave it to or from me.
That is what 'free market' means to you?
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I am not a “whale” and have been flagged countless times. I was flagged for making this post as well, and for defending @dbroze.
Saying that someone is “pro-pedophile” is a huge and serious claim. Flagging a post about pizzagate is not something I understand, but it does not necessarily make someone “pro-pedophile.” If I was this user against whom you were making the claim, I would likely be flagging your account as well.
Wow. You sound scandalized. I didn’t defend him. I tried to help @dbroze and others launch a mini-campaign to warn others. The fact that he has done what I consider to be good things here in the past dosen’t mean I condone his actions now, clearly.
You mentioned in a comment above that flagging is violence. It’s not. Violence would be this individual actually harming or threatening to harm you in real life, not just downvoting one of your posts on the internet. Leave, if you don’t like that Steemit is a stake-weighted voting platform.
I do not support accounts being flagged into oblivion. I have been on the receiving end of multiple downvotes and it hurts. Bad. I think something likely could and should be done in the way of keeping one actor from nuking new user accounts into oblivion from the jump.
I don’t think stake-weighted voting is a bad thing or that changes need to be, or should be made, on a fundamental economic level to the platform.
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At a rep of 73, I thought you are a whale; I've never seen it explained what makes a whale a whale. My apologies for that.
I entered this argument at the post of @dbroze. If I may quote what he said:
So I had, I think, a fair basis for my statement about being pro-pedophilia.
Add to that the comment (in the same post) by @canadian-coconut:
I am scandalised, but not that you are "defending him", I am upset that I am coming across so many who are being hurt and nobody wants to do anyhing about it. I already mentioned that us minnows struggle to find a person to read our posts; expecting us to contact hundreds so as to gather enough to support us is not the answer for minnows. At your level it would be easier to organise something like this.
I keep on seeing you argue against stake-weighted voting. I am not against it and have not seen anyone else speak against it, though someone may have done so. I am against the system of flagging.
This is very much like giving the bullies at school the right to punish anyone, at their sole discretion. I still believe there should be a group who have the power/ability to reverse what happens when a flag is unfair and just plain malicious.
I also have the feeling that if I upvoted someone, even if only for one cent, taking it away from them is not only a possible theft against them, they are also stealing from me.
If there is a way I can help, I will not rave and rant, and I will do what I can. My problem is I do not usually offer because I cannot go on chat (I have set up my pc for max security, so I cannot watch most vids and no chat).
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