RE: Why Are So Many Users Hitting Their Bandwidth Limit? Solved It! What You Can Do.

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Why Are So Many Users Hitting Their Bandwidth Limit? Solved It! What You Can Do.

in steemit •  7 years ago  (edited)

Of course the bandwidth limits are hit due to dropping reserve rate (what else could it be, after all). The core question then is why exactly the reserve rate is dropping which you did not mention, so let me add a bit to your explanation.

Imagine the situation where there are a total of 1000 Steem users total each with 1 SP on their account. Suppose the total network bandwidth is 200 posts per day.

If everone wanted to post, each SP would be entitled to just 0.2 posts a day - this would correspond to a reserve rate of 1 and be overall quite inconvenient.

Suppose that initially just five users are posting two times a day, hence the network only sees 10 posts a day. This 20 times lower than its actual throughput, so the network adjusts the reserve rate to 20 and every SP becomes entitled to 0.2*20=4 posts a day. So far, so good, the limits are above average use for everyone.

Now, suppose that June 2017 comes and a horde of newcomers floods in. Let's say, 30 newcomers each with SP=0.05 join the club. A typical newcomer is eager to start posting daily right after registration and given the original rate it can do so (0.05 * 30 = 1.5 posts per day). However, as soon as 40 daily post attempts onto a 200 ppd bandwidth arrive, the network scales the reserve rate down from 20 to 200/40=5, which means each SP becomes entitled to just about 1 post a day - this is uncomfortable for the old users who needed 2 posts per day, and useless for the new ones, who now have a 0.2 post per day limit.

Note that nowhere along the way there was actually even a risk of going over the bandwidth - 40 posts per day would perfectly fit through the system, yet everyone still suffers.

Why? Because the posting intensity is, in reality, disproportional with the user's SP holdings, while in the bandwidth model it is.

If you think of it, this is a conceptual flaw in the system. Instead of allocating bandwidth preferentially to SP owners it, in fact, it should be given to active creators of valuable content, who are often different people. The rate limiting idea is meant to stop spam, yet it treats all content equally, and from this perspective a bunch of valuable posts from newcomers are indistinguishable from spam.

Instead, it should take the upvotes and reputation into account. Wouldn't it make sense if a whale with low upvote, no reputation and not much network use would be allocated less bandwidth than a valuable contributor, even if the latter has 0.01 SP.
After all, collaborative filtering can usually filter spam much better than capital requirements. On the contrary, the current system allows a whale to spam as much as they want, regardless of content quality.

In addition, the whole voting-bot and various lottery nonsense only makes things worse, as a lot of bandwidth is spent on non-content-related stuff.

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I appreciate the way you explained this. 🍹
So a question is: can this be adjusted to be more healthy, towards quality content producers, as you described?

Wish my upvote was worth more to you. It stinks being a plankton!! ❓🐠❓

Well, at the moment the whole design of the system assumes that everything is proportional to SP, so it is certainly not trivial to just change this logic to something else. nor is it even clear how an alternative distribution logic should be designed without people trying to game it in some way.

So if anything, this is can only be a long-term idea. I do hope it eventually comes to the developer team and causes at least some discussion or thought.

True!
Well, here's to being the change you want to see in the world!

Thanks you - should have asked you hours ago!
But I was also getting bandwidth problems.
The bots!

I think it would be nice to discuss this with some actual Steem developers but so far I have no clue how to reach any of those. I think I should try reposting this to #steem-dev, but so far any of my questions there seem to be ignored as if they just did not exist.

One thing I have learnt is that mathematicians are needed to check the formulas and algorithms that underpin this platform - programmers and witnesses have different skills.

In this case, the formula is quite simple but it is the feedback loops that need to be considered. Amazingly, most ppl had never looked at this parameter, the current_reserve_ratio.

In my opinion the whole reserve rate logic is quite sane in general, the problem is only in the fact that it is only proportional to SP instead of something more content-related and dynamic like "recent reputation gains". Adding "number of upvotes in the last week" to the mix could seriously improve the situation.

Another possibly useful idea would be to separate financial transaction bandwidth (where the whales might indeed need some preference) from content bandwidth (where reputation and upvotes should matter more than SP).

I do not see where a feedback loop is being a problem here. Do you simply mean the big "rich get richer" loop where having a lot of SP lets you earn more SP faster?

I have been thinking it would help to have an additional and different way of voting for quality that doesn't involve SP. For example a point system based on a 1 to 5, 1 being low and 5 high that would be summed in addition to the SP votes and that would be used to determine the listing of trending posts. That way the people reading the post would determine it's quality. This would need to have a protection against bot use.

Do you know anything regarding Steem being designed to maintain a value similar to the US$? That would mean that there would be a mechanism present that when the price rises above a dollar to start another mechanism to devalue a Steem to maintain a US$ parity ideal.

I do not believe that more precise feedback would help much. The experience of most social networks shows that people rarely care to provide more feedback than a "like" or a "dislike". In the olden days there were social networks where people could rate photos by setting 1..5 stars, and as far as I understand, most people would either put 5 stars or ignore the photo. 1 star would correspond to "flagging".

In principle, there is nothing wrong with counting upvotes perhaps weighing them. If there were no extrinsic motivations for upvoting, it would be a decent indicator of content quality.

Unfortunately, and somewhat paradoxically, the financial incentivization system of Steemit, although conceived in the hope of raising content quality, plays a lot against this goal to a large extent, forcing way too many people to focus their efforts bluntly gaming the system rather than expressing themselves creatively.

This is even worse with curation rewards, where the current system motivates "curators" to upvote posts based on their author and current upvote numbers, not caring to read them through.

There are many secondary indicators of quality (how many people read the post out of those who saw it, and how many people out of those who read it upvoted it, how much total time people spent on the post, how many comments it attracted), and rewarding the curators for being able to predict a mix of such indicators could, in fact, force people to actually pay attention to the content, rather than the current upvote $ number. Same for the authors.

Steem is not designed to maintain a value pegged to dollar. Steem Dollar is (although it's not perfectly stable, as you may note).

this is so true "In addition, the whole voting-bot and various lottery nonsense only makes things worse, as a lot of bandwidth is spent on non-content-related stuff."

I'm a newcomer trying to make good content, and today is the first time I wanted to post daily and that happened to me. I still don't get this things. Is kinda unfair .

This is irritating to me too, I post original content that isn't short nor spammy nor a simple meme and my comments are usually well thought out and typed out as opposed to the usual "Nice" or "Good post" sort of comment and for someone like me to run into the bandwidth cap it makes me want to yank hair out. I was focusing on Steemit because I figured it'd be nice but lately I'm regretting not posting straight to minds and ignoring Steemit :( I'm rather put off.