Quick Chat: Insight Into Why Many Casual Social Media Users Won't Use Steemit Yet
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Unless efforts are made to address and end harassment by self appointed moderator trolls, and end the funding of these trolls by steemit founders, expect usage to continue dropping.
The endless inquisitions, brutal harassment, and trolling will hurt Steem more than anything.
Users and founders alike must get used to the fact that value will redistribute here and it is not their job to fund and encourage witch hunting harassment when redistribution does not fall their way or shows a pattern consistent with their pet conspiracy theory.
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Yep, I agree. For all the high flying liberty talk in their white paper took about five minutes to see the coming police state.
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When real money or transfer of value is involved it is imperative that people who would use deception or unethical tactics to scam or trick people into giving them their value, be rooted out of the system.
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There is no possibility of deception or tricking people in this system. How can someone trick you into thinking that content is good when you know it isn't, or vice versa? It is the people pushing that harmful meme that are being destructive, trying to turn this into a trollfest (and, unfortunately, to some extent succeeding).
If content gets votes, it gets rewards. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Vote for content you like and don't vote for or downvote content you don't like or think is harmful. Everyone is entited to vote as they see fit, even if you don't agree with them. The blockchain adds up the votes and never, ever cheats. Might be the first honest election in the history of the world.
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Then you are presenting this platform as a business rather than a social network which in my opinion is less attractive to pick up then the former. Also I don't understand how pointing out when the facts don't add up is harassing or trolling. How does steemit look when posts that are poorly written and have poor quality information get upvoted to $200 or more. I am concerned about steemit's reputation and I do not like the direction that you want it to head towards. I think that you are only self-concerned and are looking make the most profit you can without any regard to others apart from the people in your select group.
Edit: Also I would be more inclined to believe you if I wasn't on the receiving end of 'harassment' and 'trolling' by a whale @kushed who decided to downvote a few of my comments on threads by an author @armen that I suspect is his own sock puppet. My comments were not meant to be abusive and they were questioning the legitimacy of the information in the post.
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I don't know what select group you think I'm in, but if you mean those with a significant ownership stake, then yes I'm interested in increasing the value of our ownership stake by encouraging more positive, casual, entertainment type content that people actually enjoy as this insightful post indicates. I believe that will attract more users, increasing the value or our ownership stake (and I conversely believe that if we don't attract more users, then this platform will die out and our ownership stakes will become worthless).
The sort of bickering over who is right and who is wrong, who is a sock puppet, which posts are more deserving of some particular dollar value of reward, etc. to which you are referring is exactly the opposite of that, and will have (and is already having) the opposite effect. There are rampant fake profiles, sock puppets, upvote bots, likebots, etc. on other social media platforms (you don't really think that B-lister has a million real likes do you?). If those platforms were constantly polluted by arguments over it instead of people enjoying interacting and being entertained despite a certain background level of cheating and abuse, those platforms would be abandoned instead of having a billion users.
Steem/it has a stronger, more robust set of economic incentives to mitigate against that sort of abuse, thus over time it may end up being less prone to it. Whining about how it isn't perfect now is nothing other than self-destructive.
If you like the content, vote for it. If you don't like the content, don't vote for it or downvote it.
BTW, I have participated in some of the downvote wars surrounding @armen and his poker posts, by upvoting critical comments that had been downvoted since I felt the debate over quality was worth some visibility. If I missed yours, I apologize, but I can't be everywhere all the time.
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I generally agree. The only loophole I've seen is someone that uses posts on steemit to lure people into scams elsewhere. Technically, the bait isn't breaking any rules because the violations happen off-site. This way, you can have a good reputation rating on steemit even though you ought to be tarred and feathered in the outside world.
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Do you have a proposed plan to curtail the actions you've outlined? What can the minnows do to help if anything?
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As a minnow your options are limited. But I would suggest stop following people who who pursue these inquisitions and spread divisive harassment over how people post or vote. Participate in positive conversations and subcommunities within Steemit and shun the negative people and subcommunities. Vote for quality content that you like (whatever that is, whether high-brow or otherwise) and decline to participate in debates over how you or others should be voting (especially when negative). Invite like-minded friends to join who are also looking for a positive experience and likely to contribute in that manner.
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All sage advice. Do you consider the major anti-spam and anti-plagiarism efforts to be on the up and up?
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I support and sponsor Steemcleaners which pursues a positive approach of trying to educate people about how to produce great non-plagiarized and properly-categorized content, and stopping identity theft while avoiding harassing or pressuring people to reveal more personal information than they are comfortable doing. I can't comment on any of the other groups, but I suggest evaluating them against this standard.
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Very good. Steemcleaners was the group I had in mind when asking. To me it looks like they act in a fair and measured way. But I'm fairly new here. There could be hidden dirt I'm unaware of.
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It's good you bring those topics up, as I think it can seem like a tone is being deliberately cultivated on Steemit, when I don't think that's the aim of the whales. If it is, then that needs to be stated clearly and officially for new people to know.
There is a lot of value in basic entertainment for people. So whether something is 1000 word philosophy or quick slapstick humour shouldn't matter. Yet that kind of stuff really saturates a platform; but there's no word min on Steemit yet, right!?
What I gathered is that Steemit's aim is more "highbrow", not formal, but more like Medium in terms of what is Trending.
If all the de facto spokespeople are in crypto or anarchist gurus...Im not sure what that does to encourage mainstream adoption.
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I agree with your points and especially the last part! I'm really wondering how Steemit will look like in a year from now and hopefully we together can figure out how to reach the mass and at the same time keep out the trash..
But yes accessibility in terms of topics and post lengths is an important topic and since social media serves the main purpose of entertainment I believe we need to consider a shift in content, at least the focus of it.
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I just don't think it's possible to solve the problems of online content (plagiarism, clickbait, fact manipulaton, etc) and achieve mainstream use to the degree of facebook.
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Not completely, and I think extreme measures to try to do so are enormously counterproductive. On the other hand some degree of users preferences against these things (which may vary) can be reasonably expressed through voting without crating a hostile atmosphere.
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A unique views counter in the public UI (for blog posts) would make a great difference. It works with the incentive system which is steemit's edge and niche. Since steemit has a superior incentive system to any platform, makes sense to borrow any of the incentives that work on the other media sites as is possible.
Adding views would help for feedback when there is lack of replies and upvotes for people. and people 'fill in the blanks' themselves as to what views mean and how many is 'good' feedback to them. Whereas numbered dollar values have some anchoring (and disillusionment at times, currently). Enables for "self-curation" that isn't shooting in the dark
There definitely should be separation between "curating" and "cultivating" tone and content because it's obtuse to have hidden biases. There is some hostility sometimes yes. All of the fun of a monetized system! Just look at youtuber wars omg
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Yeah, personally, I'd rather see a view counts in the feed than estimated payouts.
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Nothing, it's antithetical to it, because most mainstream thinkers believe anarchic thought to be juvenile and ridiculous. If they want wider acceptance, they need to take the reins off and let the platform run itself. The last few days, there has obviously been a concentrated effort to exclude entertaining content from the top of the trending page in favor of Crypto and blockchain content.
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More conventional people probably think Anarchy is cultish in the way I think that Garden of Eden is. Anything that refers to someone as "our founder"...I try not to judge let's leave it at that. Least no one does that on Steemit. Imagine how bizarre..."our founders, Ned and Dan. Our future AI blogger revolutionaries...fuck it, let's all buy an island somewhere!"
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lol Yup. I already buggered-off to Chile and am building a new start-up community in the rainforest now. I prefer to live my ideals rather than just arguing about them on the internet :)
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It doesn't even sound cultish or weird (I'm serious), that's hard to do! lol Pretty cool endeavor
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HA, that's hilarious it doesn't sound cultish, or weird, but it clearly has the potential to be both, right? LOL I agree, it sounds cool. Hard thing is, we're running the western world into the ground so hard that more and more people feel that way, and we should not need to feel that an escape is necessary.
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ha! Thanks 😀
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True. At least at first glance the association is strong. Doesn't matter if the beliefs are politically and philosophically sound. I know I first became interested in Anarchy because I was into punk rock and breaking things as a teen. That's still the first thing I think of...
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Some insights from my world. I’m having reasonable success on platforms like Wattpad that caters to the millennials that love to write and read. These are not young people that get intimidated easily, in fact, they are fierce. I have connected with many of them and suggested they use Steemit.
Unfortunately, the crypto world is still quite scary for most of them. Most think it’s unlawful. And when they go to the front page of Steemit many of the posts focus on crypto and steemit, and some of the discussions are political, vigorous and confusing for them.
My audience is composed of 70% young girls—passionate, intelligent, and geeky. One of the first tags they search for is #feminism where the trolling is high. I have written this before, young people that love to write and read will love the reward aspect of Steemit. Steemit needs a good strategy to engage them. They are the future, once they like something everyone follows. They are incredibly passionate, loyal; they support each other and of course, they love fandoms.
We need to move beyond the monolith into curated tribes. If the user can select their preferred types of tribes when they sign up, they will have a much more welcoming experience.
A good marketing strategy can identify and prioritise the tribes that are most suitable for the growth of steemit.
On a separate note, one cheap feature that should be prioritised in the backlog is the social media sharing buttons. J
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It needs t o fracture quite heavily. In order to attract a wide array of users it needs to offer a wide away of content and functions. Money aspect of it should be slightly supressed (not removed, just gamified) so people are just interacting in ways they enjoy and not forced along a single channel of opportunity
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Totally agree. Let it feel like play money at first so it's not as intimidating. People get weird when money's involved.
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Yes. Play money for sure opens up the opportunity for internal markets also..... being able to cash out to fiat is less a concern when they figure out the can spend it internally
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Good insight.
Right now, Steemit is presented as a monolithic mish-mash of content that is quite unappealing to the average social media user.
Potential ways forward could be:
These are just ideas on the fly. My point is there are many directions to go to make Steemit more social. However there needs to be a move away from "all content" views (e.g. 'new', 'hot', 'trending') towards smaller niches catering for different tastes.
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Steemit right now is too much Medium with crypto, than reddit with crypto and far far away from facebook with crypto what 99% of people would use.
The network and virality is missing. You can't see the forest for the trees.
The individuality of your presence and the sharing of what you like is missing.
Also 90% of people have to be held at gunpoint to read an article.
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lol exactly
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I think another issue with mainsteam social media users and Steemit is technological accessibility.
The majority of social media users create content on their smartphone - it's why videos are so prevalent as a medium in the past few years. You can't write long posts on your mobile. But this exists on reddit as well.
Another issue with technological accessibility and mobile is the lack of a well marketed mobile app (or mobile strategy in general). I had trouble finding eSteem on Google Play and I work (among others) in app marketing.
If steemit had a neat little link in the menu leading to a page with download links for mobile apps - it would increase user engagement and attract more social media users who are reluctant to use steemit. Granted, a lot of their contribution would be curation rather than creation, but this is, again, true about pretty much all social networks.
I kinda feel like this comment should be its own post. :P
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Fantastic points, for sure.
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If only I wasn't too tired to write it and didn't have workstuff to write... :)
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I think that Steemit has a few disadvantages for ordinary people.
UX - Steemit is not sexy. is not a platform which is or could be popular so far. Steemit has no profiles, groups, and stuff like this. Steemit is fundamentally complicated for ordinary people. The white paper is written way that almost nobody understand.
Only understandable thing is that you can get paid for content. What content? No matter what content.
Founders are not very active in promoting of Steemit. This is the main thing why is Steemit struggling. Yes there is plenty of new users every week but less and less active users. Founders should hire a marketing and communication manager who will be responsible for promoting steemit around the globe. I like the videos with Dan and Ned talks in geek way to geeks. But for real growth is tremendously small initiative.
As you might know that I wrote an article this Friday. (you should know because you up-voted it) the reason I wrote this post was chance to promote Steemit.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@airmike/steemit-was-mentioned-on-webexpo-2016-in-prague
I asked question to Evan Luthra (he has 800 000 followers on social media platforms) what he think about steemit front of the audience. I also talked to Michael Lopp - writer and VP Engineering at Slack,
( previous apple, pinterest) what he think about new way of social media platforms based on blockchain. This was my initiative. I went home earlier to let all of you knows about this opportunity . I needed something to show them. And result? 18 up-votes. 1x resteem. Even If I asked for resteem this post. My question is what the hell I can show those people when steemit doesn't work fundamentally ? I did something for Steemit. I did promot steemit but frankly I regret my decision, because I didn't prove that Steemit is good place to write.
You mentioned that people do not care about video blogging but frankly, video has way brighter future on the steemit than text, I guess. Thanks to @furion and https://steemit.com/steemq/@furion/steemq-a-decentralized-video-platform-for-steem
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Proper marketing won't happen until after this open beta phase is completed.
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The beta tag is arbitrarily, and should be removed IMO. The platform is live, has people using it, works reasonably reliably, and requires investors to pour money into it in order to even function (otherwise rewards can't be cashed out). That is beyond beta. Beta does not mean that every conceivable feature that might exist in the future is already deployed. The tag serves an an excuse for why this or that isn't happening and no other useful purpose. If not immediately, then let's have a clear schedule and roadmap for what is necessary to end the "beta phase" and remove the tag.
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Completely agree. It's not perfect but it's working well enough. Time to get serious.
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I was wondering to see at least reaction of Steemit users on my blog. That is all I wanted to say. Yes, Steemit is not ready yet., but I am more afraid about behavior of users than technical features. thank you for comment.
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cause this is a shit platform ....it's all about talk about steemit and earn ...or talk about your interest and earn shit amount. Garbage. Plus none knows about crypto currency. Look man, in the 1980 you went to school to write now a days people are lazy and less educated. All they want to do is buy the latest camera and shoot video. Why do you think Youtube is the leader in social media?
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There are artists and writers on here doing very well, actually. Steemit just happens to be the one interest that everyone here has in common. As for the cryptocurrency, the whole point is to use steemit as a mechanism for introducing people to cryptocurrency for the fist time. Of course most people don't know about it yet. It's still new and relatively complicated, as far as most people are concerned.
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And if they show up here and all of the top trending posts are crypto, steemit and blockchain, they won't stay. Had that been the case when I arrived, instead of EricVanceWalton's fiction and poetry riding the top, I would not have stayed, feeling that my work wouldn't compete. But, that seems to be the trend over the past several days, to a week.
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Yes, very true. I should stop being so negative. But i write what i feel and maybe i should put more effort into being positive and run with it. Cheers!
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Your points are valid. I think many around here fear infant-mortality of this platform. The ultimate goal is to have diverse posts with rewards spread far and wide. There's a path there but if the powers that be guess wrong there are dead-ends too.
The part I'm most optimistic about is that great ideas don't die. If Steemit fails there will be lessons learned. Somebody will do it better the next time and the next time etc. as necessary to get it right. I feel the same way about Bitcoin. If it fails people will analyze the failure mode and design to prevent it in the next one.
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yeah the solution is sub-steemits. when will that happen?
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It's nice discussion, but IMHO it's a bit too early to present it as a problem. Steemit is currently in beta, in other words a "half baked bread" if you take that bread and try to sell it to your friends, only a few will buy, because only a few know how to bake bread.
What I am saying that, Steemit is too robust at this stage and Isn't quite ready for the average Joe or Jolene to come here and make a easy post as they do on other social media.
Currently it takes knowledge, it takes Markdown with some HTML to format a good post, or raw html, what users don't use on other social media and may seem very complicated. They might don't wanna learn how to use markdown or html just to create a "good" post on Steemit. The point is at this stage we mostly need developers, testers, innovators etc... who will make this half baked product baked so that It can be served to the mass and that will happen when Steemit exits the beta. Truth is, the dev's know about these "problems" and features like easier post writing will be added, profile pictures, uploading photo/video directly etc... that will make someone switching from any other social media platform to Steemit easy. I can't stress this enough but at this stage, we are still pretty much an experiment, as you can see we are changing things from time to time and testing different variables out, take for example the voting power algorithm, which went from 20 to 40 and was proposed to 5 and got rejected by the community. We are still now turning knobs and experimenting to see what works and what doesn't identifying problems as we move on and solve them, for the average user that would be really strange since they are 99% of the time served a fully baked product. Currently most of Steemit users don't know/realize this stuff so how should someone else know, most of the community doesn't even know where to look for info on what is being planned in the future, what are we going to implement next week and etc...
The point is, it's in beta and an experiment that's not finished yet and is not very user friendly atm. I did also introduce Steemit to a few of my friends and one actually came, stayed for 2 days and left... That tells you the current state, but once we have this place nice and shiny I'll bump my friends again and I'm confident that more than just one will join when that happens. :))
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The world moves on. Several other blockchain social platforms are being devleoped and launched and the initial momentum from the Steem launch and concept is being lost. I agree with you that more needs to be done (profile pictures, etc.) but it needs to be done soon. An eternal so-called beta phase is a recipe for disaster.
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Bingo. The troops have gathered and we're ready to rock... so let's just do this thing already.
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Agreed. I prefer to just think of it as a challenge rather than a problem, per se. Something to work on as we develop.
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Indeed, that's something we do have to keep in mind as we move forward.
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Great job collaborating on this topic. I have had the same experience telling people about Steemit. It is very intimidating to people and I even have to overcome mental barriers when preparing for a post. Sometimes it almost feels like a research paper and I know that if I don't spend several hours on a post it will almost have no chance for a payout. Then when I spend 4 or 5 hours on a post there still might not be a good payout. Also I have had several friends join who I know outside of Steemit but then have quit because they didn't make anything and felt rejected. Oddly enough some of them still create content on YouTube where they don't earn anything essentially because their views are so low. Another person still post heavily on Instagram for $0. One of my YouTuber friends said "It feels like walking on egg shells over there." Don't get me wrong. Steemit is awesome and still evolving but for people who are outside of the crypto world I almost feel like it would be like saying, "You might make money if you write this 20 page research paper on quantum physics and a whale decides to upvote it." It causes a lot of people to have paralysis by analysis and they are always getting ready to get ready. Either that or it is easier for them to just forget about it and not face the posibility of rejection. I feel that that curration and commenting would be a much easier on ramp for everyday social media users but to earn anything they would have to power up a lot of money for it to be worth their time so that isn't feasibly for the vast majority of people.
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I know there is Cybil-aversion amongst the developers, but at some point rewards and earnings need to be more accessible. I'm talking about an almost assured penny or more payout for every vote.
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This will happen with a rise in the price of steem. As the price of steem increases, the value of the steem released every day in SBD will bloom and each vote will be worth more. Although, dumbing things down to where every post earns a few cents, would likely rob the top end and kill incentive to stay and work hard to reach it.
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There is no way to assure any particular reward value for a vote. That is a function of the total size of the reward pool, which has generally been shrinking rapidly along with the price of STEEM. In an extreme extrapolation of this ongoing trend even whale votes would be worth nothing.
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Thank you smooth for going through and voting on comments. It doesn't happen as often and it is unfortunate. Not that it should be expected, but a nice participation reward.
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thanks for sharing the conversation
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Right now SteemIt is more like Wordpress.com or Medium.com than anything else I can think of. I know Steemit is a "reference" to Reddit but IMO Steemit is not like Reddit or Facebook or Twitter, etc.
I think having more well defined sub-steemits like Reddit has with subreddits is a good idea.
On the other hand, I like the model of Wordpress.com where I can create a blog and even have my own domain for my blog. Yet others on Wordpress.com can still find me through the reader and other tools.
Taking it a step further, once we have an open source solution which is basically like the open source Wordpress software - people can easily run a Steem-backed website on their own server or shared hosting.
Let's remember that Wordpress powers many of the top websites (WordPress was used by more than 26.4% of the top 10 million websites as of April 2016.[7]).
That's not too shabby so maybe the current "serious blogger" direction is not so bad after all.
In any case the marketing should align with what the platform is really all about.
There are, after all, a ton of Wordpress (and Medium) users who already know how to write great content. They could be an asset to the community and I think, for now at least, they are the target market in terms of new users who will be successful in Steemit.
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Not just that, but nesting 6 deep as a limit does not encourage conversations that can be followed in the comments, and locking comments after 30 days is wrong too.
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amen to that
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Could not agree more.
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I was the top ranked "social media guru" on Linkein for about a year and a half, until the changes were just coming too fast to keep up with. I'll be posting some thoughts on this topic today. Stop by.
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Cool. 'Will do.
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I agree, I think users should be able to create a blog layer that caters to their niche. Let's say thay are a golfer. That person would be able to create a "blog" backed by the Steemit blockchain. The steemit.com site could be a catch-all and show all posts as well. This could drive more traffic to the blogs and followers. I have an idea for a blog like this, but waiting for @Ned and @Dantheman to roll out a feature like this. Also, withdrawing SBD needs to be easy, so that users can withdraw without having to go through a multitude of steps or instructions.
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Totally agree. An exchange to go directly from steem to a major national currency while bypassing bitcoin would be a huge step.
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Steemit is just one platform on the steem blockchain. I expect many more to come that can be for non-bloggers. It's early days but the blockchain is there the platforms just need to find their creators who will build them.
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Agree, with basically one exception. The 4 post-per-day soft limit on the blockchain did not exist in the original design and was added in a hasty response to spam. It is inherently tuned for blogging ("no one should post more than 4 blog posts or they are spamming"). We now have other tools to fight spamming (including unfollowing people who spam).
This fixed limit is completely inappropriate for tweet-like content, photo sharing, status updates or other forms of more social and interactive content (including models we can't even think of right now). There is a twitter-like platform developed as a third party app which uses comments to hold content as a work around, but this causes a number of other serious problems.
The 4-post limit should be removed allowing the blockchain to be content-type neutral. This opens the door to a wide variety of interfaces and concepts to be built on top of the blockchain without restriction, and hopefully one or more will find the magic formula to attract a wide audience that steemit.com currently lacks.
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YES! This is probably the number one thing they could do to encourage the typical social media user to join and contribute. Or, at the least, allow for additional short comments. I've wanted to post short things a few times, but ran up against that limit and hesitated to compete against my own longer posts. I will say, they have done something that no other platform has done this quickly, amass a lot of long form content, which is great search engine fodder, once it's mapped. but it probably needs to be categorized better, also. I helped build content for Ehow and they kicked ass in the search market, for about two years, you couldn't look for how to anything without finding Ehow.
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That's an important point to be made. It actually would pose restrictions for new platforms. Perhaps dan and ned need to make spamming restrictions more of a front end feature so that it doesn't interfere with the steem blockchain.
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I thought 'spamming' involved trying to use the platform to solicit business, advertise outside business etc. .... To my mind that is what this is
https://steemit.com/finance/@dollarvigilante/warren-buffett-is-the-latest-billionaire-to-jump-ship-from-the-markets
The last couple of paragraphs are blatantly advertising a subscription service for investment advice. I do not feel very strongly about this, but would like clarity? i would love to punt for business under Travel for my Cape Town Tours {grin}
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Speaking generally here, advertising is not the same as spamming. Spamming implies some sort of high volume and distributing the spam widely to people who don't want it. Advertising is not disallowed and in fact is one of the use cases for SP (those wishing to promote their content can buy SP and use it to vote up their own posts).
On the other hand, if you don't like seeing someone's advertisements, you should unfollow them or mute them. If it is posted with inappropriate tags or otherwise attempts to unfairly gain visibility, then downvoting it is appropriate.
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Hokay, got it! thanks for the comprehensive answer . I have no problem with the content, in fact I enjoy his posts..was just seeking clarity.
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Yup, that's gonna be awesome :)
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Brought up some great points. There should be more tags and we should reward diversity.
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Anything can be a tag...... just have to type it. People get stuck on picking from the popular list.... but anything you type In that field is a tag..... I sometimes love to include #ihavedonestudies #noyoucantseethem for a laugh
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Tags was the wrong word, I meant categories. That way people will be more inclined to put up selfies or maybe a dirty joke or whatever assuming it was in the right category, and it would get to the correct people and not offend others.
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I don't think we have any shortage of tags, but all they do is organize things in the same sort of environment.
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excellent post congratulations
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Educate...educate...and keep educating.
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Can't wait to see the Real social media / facebook-like based on Steem :)
actually its in pre-alpha right now...
the Steem game-changer app is coming for sure
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One thing is for sure - the trolling problem has been mostly solved here.
IMO the delegated curation idea would be a big help. I agree with those who say that steem/crypto/blockchain related content gets too much of the rewards. Voting power could be delegated to better curators who read things other than steem/crypto/blockchain.
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