Courtesy of Google & Guy Williams
"All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others." ~George Orwell, Animal Farm
I am a firm believer in the free marketplace of ideas. By that I not only mean that I am against censorship, but that the validity (worth) of ideas will flourish by their own merit, or fall by the wayside. In other words, a democracy of ideas. John Stuart Mill wrote eloquently about the Democracy of ideas in his seminal piece, On Liberty:
"The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."
This principle holds true in allowing a disparate amount of power to a few individuals who hold the "purse strings" as applied to the up and down voting of rewards. In a true democracy, the worth of ideas should be judged by everyone, not a few who have garnered power. That is an oligarchy. Far be it from me to tell someone how to run their business. However, if you start a social media platform and disguise your motives as democratic and it is not, your business will not last. I came to Steemit with high intentions...I thought I had found a platform where quality was rewarded not governed. I have since stopped encouraging my friends to come on here.
I believe that Steemit will last until someone else develops a similar platform and runs it democratically. I've built several businesses and my philosophy has always been to find out what the competition is doing and do it better. Sooner or later (sooner, I believe) someone will come along and learn from Steemit's mistakes. Ultimately, the free marketplace of ideas will prevail. Some animals may think they are more equal than others, but it is never permanent.
Yea, let's nuke the whales, and then all posts will just make 0 since there will be no investment money to draw upon. That will make everyone happy I'm sure.
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You got it backward. The investment money comes from minnows and dolphins not whales.
If you nuke the minnows and dolphins which is essentially what is happening right now there will be no investment money to draw upon.
I suggest you check @changelly @poloniex @blocktrades @bittrex @shapeshift , you will see that whales are not buying steem power but minnows/dolphins do.
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Ok, fair enough. What I should have said is that your posts would make 0 because you'd have no where to post. The whales built the system.
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Not all of the whales built the platform. Many of them mined it. At the point I came in they had their shares. I am really unclear on what your point is.
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It's quite difficult from looking on those accounts to see who is buying what. Many whales have more than one account. If a whale is going to buy a lot, he's probably not going to buy in his main account and telegraph to everyone he's buying or it could result in him buying it for a higher price.
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Well said. I have seen some of the accounts seeming to this kind of thing, so few people have all the Steem and the power for sure.
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It's just a picture to draw attention to the problem...not the solution. Should have read the article instead of just looking at the pictures.
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Yea I did read your post. I saw nothing in it that contradicted the picture. It's yet another post calling for nerfing whale power.
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I couldn't possibly agree more. I think that every voice should be heard, especially the bad ideas, if only to allow them to serve as example of what not to do. How are bad ideas to be disputed if they are minimized to the point that no one can see them?
I have been waiting and watching for some aspiring entrepreneur to open up Steemit 2.0 so I can post on here about it and then vacate the premises. If I knew how, I would already be doing it. It is clear there is a market for this, and only a few problems to deal with. Even Steemit could still be saved, but every time there is a rule change, it is in the wrong direction.
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There's a new platform called Yours...It isn't opened up yet and I don't know how it will work. Personally, I hope the folks here will see the problem and fix it.
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I also would like to see the bugs worked out, but it looks like the bug fixers only want to work more bugs in.
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Yours is bitcoin-based, so all rewards/tipping will have to first be deposited (in bitcoin) by the payers, presumably.
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Downvotes and flags (or lack of upvotes) do not rob anyone of a voice or platform.
Everything posted on steemit is on equal footing.
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You may have convinced yourself, but go get yourself a -3 reputation, then post and try to pretend you are on the same footing as the whale troll that flagged you there.
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I believe that every system, business, and organism will fail unless its stewards work towards its long-term success, and that means taking a view where all actions ought to be towards ensuring the system benefits all participants in a fair manner, and especially to avoid unnecessary extractive behaviour and short-termism that ultimately will lead to the collapse of the system in one way or another.
We see this everywhere: Extractive resource mining operations that barely take a decade's long view on what happens when the boom goes bust, business operators only concerned about the next quarterly results, and other human political and economic behaviour leading to the destabilizing of economic and ecological systems that threaten not just these systems, but our existence as well.
And evidently such negative behaviour occurs here too. I believe such sustainable systems can and do exist, but not until those who often hold outsized power over them understand how their actions affect the outcome of the system in the long term. Work must be done to ensure its survival, or death awaits, at which point the torch is passed on to the next set of ideas and their implementations.
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Gotta nuke somethin
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I think THIS is the plan...
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Nuke the MOON!
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That was Carl Sagan's plan.
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I see your point but I don't agree. Steemit is still in beta and I believe it will evolve and grow from all the contrast and conflict here. I serenely hope so.
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I agree, competition of ideas, only make the ideas and/or posts that wins the competion more interesting and rewarding.
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I hope you're right but if they don't correct the disparity in power someone else will be getting the business.
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How would this "democractic" system deal with Sybil attacks?
You start off talking about ideas and then jump over into the reward system. Is there any censoring of ideas taking place here via the reward system? I don't think so. Ideas are free to spread according to their subjective content value. It's not like you have to have high SP to resteem something.
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I don't believe that there is censoring via the rewards system, but some people do. I agree with what you said about content value.
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Indeed, truth will out and rise above if info is fairly represented. The power structure in Steemit has long been an issue of debate even before I got here in August. This recent addition of irrational flagging has brought it to the forefront. My post on Competition in a Truth Market is based on this as well, the "market of ideas". Let's see what will happen... hehe. Resteemed.
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Thanks buddy! Some people are looking at my post as a criticism, that's not my intent. I just want to point out that if the problem isn't fixed, someone will take this idea to the next level and start a more democratic platform.
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Agreed!
It's always interesting to watch the evolution of ideas in this fast moving world. People start great ventures with promise (like Steemit) and have high ideals... but democracy and vision heads in the toilet when the early adopters realize that it actually WORKS!!! and suddenly they have large bank balances... at which point conservatism and protectionism sets in... IRONICALLY serving only to kill the very goose that was laying golden eggs.
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At last...Somebody that understands what I said!!! I'm not trying to attack anybody, the developers have the right to do whatever they wish and I support that. I'm just saying that somebody will see all of the complaints and start a more democratic platform.
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I've offered a solution to this problem https://steemit.com/steem/@snowflake/guardian-of-the-steem-universe-a-different-perspective-on-the-role-of-whales-within-steem-ecosystem-part-2
I agree with you, if all voting power is not given back to the 99% steem will never go mainstream and will end up being a ghost town.
I don't know what it will take for most people to understand this.. ( many gets it but some are not ready to give up their power to make the platform better, they prefer to keep it until it becomes completely worthless)
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I hope they see the problem and fix it...we all have a vested interest in Steemit's success.
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What about steemit do you find undemocratic?
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I still don't know enough of Steemit ecosystem to have an opinion about whales and other things of the site. I have a feeling that it is a quite unstable system specially. Sometimes the difference of a post succeeding or failing is the vote of one person. It can be quite confusing for a beginner. That being said, it has a lot of potential, and seems to be working. Maybe with future updates they can protect it from the inevitable competition that is going to emerge in the near future. Great post!
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Thank you! At least you understood what I was saying!!!
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Woooooooooohooooo I can comment again. Was it a bug or did I comment too much and they shut me down for a spell. I would like to know what happened to me so if I did something wrong I could fix it. THANK YOU!
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I really don't know, but I'm glad you can comment.
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I have to disagree.
If this was the case, why the hell is eBay still the top selling site. They have more "mistakes" than you can shake a stick at, but there is still zero competition.
So I think steemit will be totally fine and hopefully make right the power balance.
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I think this happens because the market is inefficient, especially in the short term. Momentum gives a lot of advantage for a number of reasons, and a lot of businesses fail because they rest on their laurels once they achieve a bit of success and think they can stop innovating. In the end though, you can count on things changing eventually, and if you don't adapt, someone else will come around and eat your lunch.
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offerup, 5miles, craigslits get more traffic than ebay could dream of and sell more to more people, hence why ebay will be the next ghost town regardless of what they incentivize or who they sue(cl). So your point about competition is kinda moot. O you don't think so? You think that ebay could touch cl even with a stick that reaches the moon and back?
lets not go to offerup and 5miles or the next ebay killer that will undoubtedly come to take it's rightful place in the absence ebays well deserved death will bring.
off the subject kinda..amazon will cede their position as well, tough luck working in transparency amazon.
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_sick_brutality_and_secret_history_of_ruthlessly_intimidating_workers/
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-25034598
http://gawker.com/amazon-insiders-tell-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-1570866439
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/dec/01/week-amazon-insider-feature-treatment-employees-work
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-worst-parts-about-working-at-amazon-according-to-employees-2015-8
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Great quote by John Stuart Mill! Not sure if it applies to Steemit specifically as I don't believe there is censorship per say on Steemit, but I agree that a better distribution of power could do good to the platform, whether it happens naturally or else in the future.
Cool coincidence! I was writing a video I once made comment on your other last post and here I am finding another topic you post about, and that I had touched on, on one of the three vids I did back in the old days (the third one bieng the song ''A Trick of the Tail'' by Genesis). I used images from the movie Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home along with the song Don't Kill the Whale by Yes. The video I made was then used by a web site who made a list of environmental problems that had supposedly been debunked (according to them) as fear porn or something to that effect. Imagine the following song (one of my favorite by Yes) with some of the following film excerpt and you would get the vid in question:
Don't Kill the Whale Official Music Video by Yes
Star Trek 4: The Voyage Home (4/10) Movie CLIP - Swimming with the Whales (1986) HD
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I'm not saying it's censorship per se. I'm saying that if the platform doesn't become more democratic it won't matter...people will go elsewhere.
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Ok, gotcha. We are on the same page as long as you say more democratic and not perfectly democratic (meaning one user=one vote). I still think more vests should result in more influence, but I also think the gap between the whales and the minnows is still to big as it is right now.
I think some people have jump to that flagging for downvoting (as a way to control the daily reward pool) equates to censorship conclusion on Steemit. So my reply was not necessarily pointed at you but at the larger debate raging on.
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I'm no whale...I'm about a small a minnow as there is. A lot of people look at the reward disparity as a form of censorship. I'm not one. I really like this platform ans sincerely hope they fix the problem.
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**
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I only want to see the platform work for everybody...I sincerely believe that was the original intent of the designers. My problem is that I see post after post by people that don't see it that way. I keep getting flak over the post and all I want is for things to get fixed before all is lost.
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You might want to decline payout for posts like this...
You know what I mean?
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I would strongly disagree. Where does steemit stand if we can not even be critical about it?
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Steem will decidedly back Steemit so long as the majority of Steem stakeholders support Steemit. I do not look forward to the the day this is not the case....
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I don't know how
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When you create a post, on the right of the button POST, you have a line entry Rewards, with 3 possible choices:
To decline payout, just select "Decline Payout" before clicking on POST.
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Doing so, proves you don't have a bias to exploit the resources of Steem power.
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I am not at all sure why you should.
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When thinking gets this low on Steemit it's lime to. . .
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Well, Rich, you get my One Cent worth of an up vote and now you get my Two Cents worth of comment. ;)
First of all, you've impressed the h-ll out of me by creating a post with (at the time of this comment, 8 hours in) these properties:
Dude, my hat's off to you! Impressive stats! Never seen the like of it before! ;)
As to the core issues you raise, I'm at a bit of a loss about what might be done. For example, I've read @snowflake's ideas about whales serving as moderators and down voting, but then I've observed the very distasteful result of that sort of action in the case where lovely community member @karenmckersie was down voted and disheartened. That sort of thing can only lead to an exodus, when what Steemit needs is mass immigration and adoption.
As a content creator trying to take a "long view," I continue to tell anyone who will listen that what I most want is readers who will benefit from my articles. And while I am pleased when articles "catch steem" from a whale, either regularly via a bot, or "in passing" for whatever reason, I am disheartened when I look at the generally low number of "eyeballs" actually viewing my articles. In that regard, one thing that keeps me going is the "promise" (in the metaphorical sense) of blockchain durability, and the hope that my posts will become an archive that may yet in the future bless millions.
And so, I'm "tuned in" for anyone with any good ideas about how to get and keep a large and growing readership here. I pray these "growing pains" will get sorted out sooner rather than later. :)
Wow, this has become a book...Thanks for reading! If you're reading this, Yo! I'm looking for readers to bless! Check out my Topical Table of Contents by clicking on this GIF: 😄😇😄
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What would you envision this other platform doing differently ("democratically", in your words)?
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I wanted to be positive about steemit, last week I made a post expressing my displeasure at the whales having too much power and my concerns that they might not be using it "responsibly". Come back a week later to see one of the better posters here (KrNel) is being flagged irrationally , not much hope here lol. This kind of policing is also preventing me to introduce new users to this platform. I hope the whales realize that its only a matter of few popular posters going inactive & powering down is more than enough to cull any interest in this platform for lots of users.
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I quit telling my friends to come here too.
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