RE: "Central Premise & Proposals" - A Series About Fixing Steemit - Part 4

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"Central Premise & Proposals" - A Series About Fixing Steemit - Part 4

in steemit •  6 years ago 

Oh i wish i wasn't entertaining a guest who is now watching me talk to my phone and edit it lol.

What business do you know, that doesn't require 1000 vectors to float? You may name some, and I bet I can add what makes them way more complex than at a glance.

Nikes? For 50,000 people, of whom, likely only a small percentage of them would buy them? That doesn't make economic sense to implement at scale... yet

But that isn't stopping people from trying, heres just one of MANY sites with disparate lists of places you can spend some steem, with more arriving daily, as mass accumulates.

https://www.coinpayments.net/store-directory-coin-STEEM#list

The misconception you have in the other pull-outs seems to be missing that existing here VERY MUCH is operating a business, a personal brand and a producing your products. And operating a business, takes an education and skill and luck and timing and 10000000000 vectors to align or be managed.

As for the content. Yeah no, we go through this with people endlessly. No, your (not YOU YOUR, generalized your) long blog wouldnt sell to a magazine for 20 bucks, so what makes you think it's worth a red cent here? Entitlement? Socialism? 99% of what is produced here wouldnt EVER see paid print anywhere else.

That army you speak of? Ive been training them for nearly 20 Months. And I've watched the ones who listen, change their lives, quit their jobs, or augment their income significantly here.

I've also used the power of the chain to rally support for thousands of people around the world, who are healthier, clothed and eating today, thanks to steem, THOUSANDS. in about a dozen countries, affected by government corruption,weather, natural catastrophes, and just shitty economies.

I pulled an amount of this place last year worth an amount equivalent to my salary as VP of a real world enterprise software product company. I did that 100% with posting, networking and doing the work. A LOT of work.

Sorry, but I know WAY too many people who came from zero, and paid off their college or are now feeding their families or even doing charity for others, when they arrived penniless, from third world countries and conditions.

It's a real world here. You just got dropped off in New York City, you don't speak the language, you don't know a soul and you are broke. You have no home, and you have no friends. There are criminals and crazy people out to get you.

This happens every day, even the people born in the city, with the language and connections, all have the same thing to face. Survive at a level satisfactory to them.

Some will do the work, network, innovate, create and thrive.

Some will live in fear of muggers and run for the country and subsist at best.

Others will whine and ask for somebody to save them. Those will always be a problem we can't get rid of.

Guess who ends up running the local pizza joint ,the dry cleaner and the chinese carry out. Some of them will franchise and become extremely wealthy.

Hint, it ain't the ones who looked around for answers. It's the ones who defined their own.

I really have to go. But I really want to continue. We will, eventually.

The harsh reality though? is 99% of the "content" on this platform isn't worth two cents, and certainly not $6.95 the average paperback novel costs. Of which the author might see a buck in a GOOD contract. And he might sell ten thousand copies and how long to write, shop and sell the book, then recoup against the advance? Rarely happens to anybody who is not named Clancy or King... and it can take years to recoup if it happens at all.

So yeah, getting a few bucks here is actually a far higher ROI than paper publishing.

And 1000% more likely to gain you income than a personal blog in 2018 even with ads or endorsement deals. That no one but a clancy or king can even get.

The idea that people deserve something here at all is a total fallacy.

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Yes! There are also other platforms that support many cryptocurrencies to pay online or accept on websites.

https://nowpayments.io/supported-coins/

Ah C'mon @sircork. All your philanthropic tirade on this last comment is quite entertaining, promising and dandy. But this does not respond at all to the core of what is being proposed by @quillfire.

¿Should Bidbots and for that matter, any kind of brainless greedy automatisms be banned and swept outside the steem blockchain or not?

I totally concur with @quillfire's sentiment that they not only should be banned and swept but KILLED immediately in the spot. That they gotta fuck anywhere else with their stake and snake oil marketing speech claiming that they are legitimate business of advertising and promotion to help users to be recognized for their work. Quality work or otherwise. ;p

Steemit's Central Premise that was sold to us all from the beginning on this shabby stall on the internet was that this was going to be a Living Social Network "Social Network eh?" based on blockchain technologies that would have its own economy exerted through the use of tokens/coins mined and generated by our own time, effort, dedication and creative creations to reward quality content between its members/peers. And we all know that they have fallen short in following that promise/premise.

Notice the bold remark above: Living Social Network L.I.V.I.N.G.

What every, and I repeat EVERY blind AI/Code/Bot automatism related with the votes and monetary rewards/payouts within the platform are currently doing, is nothing less than murdering all vestige of interaction, engagement and commitment between living and thinking beings. Including the more than blind voting Trails & Guilds. They are not curating shit. Obviously, because they can't read, watch and/or digest a single crap either before simply cast a ludicrous 1% and lower upvotes as previously programmed by its greedy, absent and lazy owners/masters.

¡Death to all the Bots!

@por500bolos,

Standing Ovation!

I guess, though, that your common sense observations about the realities of Steemit makes you a commie too. Or, are you a fascist? Or both?

But this does not respond at all to the core of what is being proposed by @quillfire.

You're right, it doesn't.

... claiming that they are legitimate business of advertising and promotion to help users to be recognized for their work.

If bidbot users were paying the expense for their "advertising costs" solely out of their own pockets, then it wouldn't be any of my, or anyone else's, business. But, because bidbots drain the Reward Pool (a shared resource) of 25-30% of its payout, it reduces what can be paid to other authors. In doing so ... they've made it our business.

based on blockchain technologies that would have its own economy exerted through the use of tokens/coins mined and generated by our own time, effort, dedication and creative creations to reward quality content between its members/peers.

Hence ... Proof of Brain. But who's brains? It's where the ideologues make their mistake. Steemit, and hence STEEM, has ZERO Intrinsic Value. It's only value derives from Steemit's network of users. To be functional, all networks require a critical mass of users, below which their operability collapses. They end up having no utility.

Steemit is about PEOPLE. The computers and code are just tools that help people interact. Nothing more. The problems of Steemit are not technological ... they're political. It's meritocracy versus kleptocracy. Those is support of the latter don't want to Kill the Golden Goose that Lays the Golden Eggs ... for them. Take away the bidbots and other vote-gaming mechanisms and they'd have to compete ... not cheat.

Steemit will either fix the flaws ... or the merit-based users will exodus once a functional alternative becomes available. Such alternatives are months away from becoming a reality.

Quill

I guess, though, that your common sense observations about the realities of Steemit makes you a commie too. Or, are you a fascist? Or both?

Yeah, surely both and beyond. Way beyond the interests of those at the top of the wealth pyramid of 'Proof of Stake' exclusively.

If bidbot users were paying the expense for their "advertising costs" solely out of their own pockets, then it wouldn't be any of my, or anyone else's, business. But, because bidbots drain the Reward Pool (a shared resource) of 25-30% of its payout, it reduces what can be paid to other authors. In doing so ... they've made it our business.

Eloquently well said and clearly described @quillfire. Undoubtedly they've made it our business. But it is also evident that those who are not only growing fluff and cobwebs in their pockets because they have them already full of Steem, SBDs & SP product of their not so solidary and supportive services and businesses are unable to see this from outside their own unlimited money hungry perspective.

Take away the bidbots and other vote-gaming mechanisms and they'd have to compete ... not cheat.

Yeah! that's exactly what anyone with solely enough stake, money, do$h, SP and whatevah influence their exclusive lazy ca$h investment has provided them above others within a SOCIAL network of peers wouldn't be willing to do playing under the same set of rules. Compete and contribute cleanly without cheat and try gaming the system taking advantage of the underdogs, underprivileged and needy.

Steemit will either fix the flaws ... or the merit-based users will exodus once a functional alternative becomes available. Such alternatives are months away from becoming a reality.

Without a doubt that the docile cattle will soon tire of continuing be milked while waiting for the defects in the current procedures be corrected and things improve with justice within this milking farm. I have no doubt that the herd will kick their milk bucket soon and run away into greener pastures if they don't listen to the demands of the masses and the clamor of the majorities. ;)

Undoubtedly! Just wait till a viable alternative is up and running. Sadly, by any measure, Steemit has been dying. I am awaiting Dan's version of Steemit on EOS. When that starts, Steemit will really be on the morphine drip.

Cool so which dictator do you want to install in our currently ungoverned society? Which zuckerberg do you want in charge of your draconian plans to control all teh things?

And I'm still waiting for you boys to define "quality" ;)

¡No One! No dictators are needed to rule anything at all.

Again, ¿what has to do the ass with the eyelashes?

I'm talking about kill the bots. All kind of bots & blind automatisms.

By chance, are you perhaps implying that without bots and useless AI automatisms, dictators and tyrants would be needed in charge so that a perfectly free society could do what really comes out of their ballsack?

And as for "quality". There is no such thing and never has existed such thing. Quality & Beauty always has been an empirical mirage and individual hallucination that only resides within the head of each one. :)

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

No, i am flat stating the fact that "banning" anything requires an authority NO ONE here has or should have or can have.

Further, most of the bots are in regular user names and you'd have to witchhunt arbitrarily to kill them.

I love when people who don't have any understanding of the mechanics of a proof of stake blockchain have ideas though, because 100% of the time, they are begging for centralized regulation, centralized authorities, censorship, and arbitrary decision making. Kinda like Venezuela.

and 90% of the time, probably higher, the ones yelling for it, are the ones not making it happen for themselves.

I suspect that you are seeing things from another perspective that prevents you from clearly appreciating what I am asserting.

Banning, killing, excommunicating, execrating and sweeping out of circulation dangerous and harmful entities out of a healthy society precisely because they threaten their health and longevity must always be the order of the day.

If not only they are not useful, but they also threaten to contaminate, infect and destroy the already built and this has been already widely verified by the majority, they must all be annihilated immediately without the right of reply. Simply as an undesirable pest.

NO ONE here has or should have or can have.

Of course there are. It's obvious that such authorities currently exist and they exercise that power because we've consciously given them such mandate & decision capacity through our conscious votes as witness within this platform. Witnesses must work under the consensus of the majority. Among 20 of them at least. And yes, I would increase the number of those 20 probably doubling it to 40 active ones.

¿Aren't they the ones who decide the application and direction of the Hardforks and whatever changes they become infatuated with changing collectively in their small guild according to their own interests without consulting with anyone else in the community?

Well, there you have it. It does not require a holy inquisition nor an arbitrary witchhunt crusade beyond those twenty high priests to improve or make things worse. But certainly, they wouldn't operate as isolated dictators or tyrants to make things work as these should. Such as it had previously been offered to the world by being faithful to the initial promise and premise.

Last but not least. There is no need to be an expert in the steem blockchain to have an idea of how this 'SOCIAL Network' could be sanitized and improved. You say "a proof of stake blockchain" and I say "a proof of brain blockchain". Both bombastic and ambitious concepts that have been proclaimed to the point of exhaustion to describe steemit. And curiously, also to describe in what consisted and consists the project of the Steem Blockchain.

Perhaps right there is exactly where our difference of perspectives lies from where we are contemplating and judging the proposals of @quillfire.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

again, steemit is NOT steem, and when people keep saying that word, I already understand they don't know where they are.

The witnesses execute code changes by consensus, the witnesses are chosen by YOU to represent your opinion. By votes and accumulated stake of voters added up.

Half of the top 20 only got there in the past few months, over the past year and half, that list has changed daily. Yes, some of the stars stay up there and when you dig into what they do FOR YOU, you'll see why.

You guys are still confused about the word "decentralized" and until you understand what it means, this conversation cannot proceed.

you can submit a change, if its good for the people, and platform, it will go in.

There is no "overlords" to do all this magic you guys dream up.

And they wouldn't anyway, because people being more successful than you, or creative than you, and that includes serving a willing market of bot buyers is not a good enough reason to bend to your will.

Compete or don't complain.

Yes, I understand pretty well that steemit is NOT steem.

But I also understand that those new 'businesses' that have started to bloom lately and that fall apart from what was the idea, philosophy and initial premise of the Steem Blockchain. ¡A darn flourishing SOCIAL network! That allowed them to create their now fruitful enterprises by milking the massive naivete of the docile cattle within the platform who believed and who still believes that they are part of a Living and Conscious Proof of BRAIN platform. And not a Proof of STAKE project. Where blind brainless automatisms and greedy human laziness would convert the rich richer and that only the power of money would have the preference to lead the path.

If we had just smelled that from the beginning, we would have sent them long ago strong and clear the message that they were going to have to milk the mother who gave birth to them. Because nowadays they wouldn't have any cattle to milk and get profits from them if we all just decided to become milkers here too without producing a damn drop of milk by ourselves.

So to review.

We built a blockchain application platform, that happens to have a social network site or two on it.

People came there, and made what we call a "market"

and the market asked for ways to promote that were better than the old "promote" option we began with.

and the market responded by giving consumers what they asked for.

and then both parties happily engaged in mutually agreeable commerce.

and you want to do what?

Turn it into venezuela, with commie dictatorships, and control of free markets, consumers and businesses.

In a nutshell, are you on drugs?

what was the idea, philosophy and initial premise of the Steem Blockchain. ¡A darn flourishing SOCIAL network!

Since you don't understand what the purpose of the Steem blockchain is and keep conflating it with Steemit, you're not capable of adding anything useful to this convo.

Go home, dude. You're drunk.

@sircork,

You guys are still confused about the word "decentralized" and until you understand what it means, this conversation cannot proceed.

you can submit a change, if its good for the people, and platform, it will go in.

There is no "overlords" to do all this magic you guys dream up.

Let me explain a bit of straight-line logic:

  1. A whole bunch of users decide they want bidbots banned.
  2. They start unvoting any Witness who doesn't agree to ban bidbots, and cast their votes for Witnesses who do.
  3. A majority of Witnesses now want to ban bidbots.
  4. The Witnesses vote ... the bidbots get banned.

Apply that same logic to all the other proposals that I made.

Where's the impossibility you keep speaking of? Where's the tyranny and dictatorship with which you seem so obsessed? This is how representative democracy works.

Quill

@Sircork already handled it, but, by all means, explain how the blockchain can code out bidbots.

That was a rhetorical request. You can't, as all the functions performed by bidbots can be performed by live people. Moreover, you can't ban accounts without duplicating account keys, which would quite literally destroy Steemit, as no one is going to trust having a wallet that someone else has access to.

That enough straight-line logic for you?

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

Because the witnesses, like me, and the others, whom all regularly speak to each other, already know you cannot eliminate them. It's a technical impossibility. You'll argue, because you still haven't done any research, or you'd already know that prior to bid bots, votes were just sold direct. Via chat, dm, wallet memo, whatever. The market YOU see, is just the 7-11 that consumers demanded to save a trip to the grocery store, and they are quite happy to pay the markup on the gallon of milk.

They elect US because we DO understand how it works and what we can and cannot control or SHOULD attempt to control if a technical solution is feasible.

THAT is how representative democracy works. And currently bots exist because a segment of the community wants them. They democratically, via market pressure and resistance, created a component in the free market YOU don't like. That's really not a witness's problem to solve for you.

SO try to figure out which witnesses dont use or support or OPERATE bots, and you'll quickly find that these people you are vehemently fighting for are using them, despite you.

And so you can save a post, nah, I dont fuck with em much. I might bot something if the community needs to see it, like the one time I trended one to tell everyone dmania was cryptomining on their computers. It shut him down for months. It only came back weeks ago. Clean. And I will also add, that was encouraged by MOST witnesses in #witness and was suggested to me by a top 20, when it had never even occurred to me to do so. But it worked just fine.

I dont think Ive looked at the trending page since then and rarely did before. Users here don't. The successful ones are far to busy to sit around arm chair quarterbacking, we're too busy making money and building the future of this place.

And as for "quality". There is no such thing and never has existed such thing. Quality & Beauty always has been an empirical mirage and individual hallucination that only resides within the head of each one. :)

Addressing this separately.

You are absolutely right, which is why NONE of the suppositions on this post are possible.

Well yeah, prolly not possible exclusively from the 'quality' point of view. But with all certainty, obviously that the suppositions on this post are possible and valid from a social, conscious and vividly human point of view.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

They are not possible.

Which one of these accounts is the bot?

@yehey
or
@netuoso

Both are witnesses. One IS a bot, the other acts like one with automated post reports but is also active as a human, both are actually.

Which will you ban?

How will you decide.

YOU CANNOT.

ipso facto, y'all don't get how this platform works at all.

That is an opinion, you don't have to agree.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

Oh @yehey, I'd genuinely dislike you, if you weren't occasionally funny.

That opening with "Are you autistic?" on tims post though? Edit your bot bro, that was just tasteless and rude and crosses every line. THAT is an opinion, you don't have to agree

Now we wait to see what the half human, half bot account responds with, and continue to prove you cannot tell which is which.

Well, @yehey commented before I did it because clearly he is the smartass bot between the two that you summoned here. But I already knew that since long time ago. Remember that I am not a rookie in these parts and entrails within the steem blockchain. ;)

But going back to your original question. IMO if any of them, whether that be @yehey or @netuoso constantly and exclusively behave like pure blind & brainless automatisms without the most minimal trace of intelligent life and conscious interaction within a Social network, I'd ban both accounts if I had the capacity and power to do so.

Again, we don't need interact with useless dumb AI around here unsuitable to bring a living experience and even less if its sole purpose of existence is to produce more money only for them through our interaction without them offering anything rational, intelligent and productive in exchange for our attention, services and support.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

So you'd steal the keys to their decentralized wallets, because you got less skillz and cant compete in the market? Because that's what "banning" means. and so you block them on stincs shit show, off we go to convince 100 other companies to filter them too?

impossible, yet again, for the 1000th time.

I'd hate to live in your country if you were king.

No I'm not.

@sircork,

Read Proposal No. 3.

Problem solved.

Quill

You still haven't explained how you're going to effect the ban of users from the blockchain. Still waiting on you to explain that one.

How are you going to kill the bots, chief? Still waiting on an answer. Neither you nor @quillfire have provided one.

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  ·  6 years ago Reveal Comment

And? What of it? We're a team. We've all been watching you crash and burn from the moment Cork first commented.

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