A Theory.

sirlunchthehost (71) in steemit • 7 years ago (edited)

Solving the Steemit Social Algorithm.

This is what is currently in place. The Ladder System.

What we Need.

steemit socialawkwardness minnows tcs theory

7 years ago by sirlunchthehost (71)

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fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

Nice diagramming. There is another imbalance that I think is an issue. Vote weight ought to be countereed with number of votes you can post. New minnows need to be able to upvote everything we like. We are tying to make friends, and even a "worthless" vote says "I like you!" We are not going to "rape the reward pool" with our penny votes. As a person's vote becomes worth more and more, then limits on number of votes ought to be put in place. My two cents worth... except it ain't worth 2 cents yet!

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1 vote

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

you have the option of scaling down your vote weight so you can vote more often. I can vote hundreds of times at 0% or even 1%. There have been suggestions to have a "LIKE" button that is disconnected with the upvote button though, which i think falls in line with your suggestion.

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fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

Could be I am not up to speed on this. I was under the impression I could not do that until I achieved a certain level of influence, that you don't get a slider bar until you are nearing dolphin status? If that is wrong, I do not know how to do adjust my vote weight. And no, I am not suggesting have the upvotes have NO value. Somehow, we have to be able to reward NEW creators as they come in. The other newbies are MOST likely to spot them, the whales have their little teams of people they follow already. I am talking about a way to let the little guys lift each other up, independent of dolphins and whales. We need SOME vote power to do that.

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

if you click on the upvote, a slider bar should show up. I am not near a dolphin by any means, and it shouldnt be something you can lock/unlock with more SP. I think I understand what you are saying, which is to be able to have more 100% upvotes as a minnow?

That's an interesting concept. What stops a minnow from constantly upvoting themselves if they have that ability? This becomes an issue with prioritizing one account over another on a code level.

Why do you suggest

other newbies are MOST likely to spot them

I think curators and people addicted to a specific type of content will spot them instead (likely seasoned users). The newbies will be too busy trying to get the attention of whales and dolphins, which is the case right now.

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fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

Would be an interesting experiment to run. I know I have gotten where I am interacting with newbies for the most part. The few interactions I have had with whales, they generally don't upvote my stuff, just comment.
As for self-upvoting, that could be worked into the transition out of having extra votes. When you reach a certain level of influence, your extra votes go away and self-upvoting becomes automatically disabled. I think that needs to happen anyway. It seems a MUCH bigger problem to me to have the whales upvoting themselves. And I just do not see the slider bar you are talking about! Yeah, I am blonde but a fairly clever blonde, but missing something here!

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1 vote

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happyme (68) · 7 years ago

You get the vote slider when you are near 500 SP. However, if you use it right away, your votes of course will be worth less, so you must make a choice... keep giving 100% votes at 4 to 5 cents each or drop the amount in order to give more votes. I prefer to keep my vote value as high as I can since the value is already so low. The trouble is that I run out of VP too quickly and can't give out as many votes as I would like to! Anyway... I have a way to go to get my slider, so in the meantime I'm always running out of vote power.

I THINK busy.org offers a vote-slider to all users, so you could use that portal and have a slider now (I may be mistaken). Unfortunately, I find it a bit non-intuitive to use, so I continue using steemit.com as my portal to the blockchain.

With the price of Steem at close to $1, it seems that your vote is worth roughly 1 cent for every 100 SP.

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1 vote

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fishyculture (60) · 7 years ago

Thank you for that explanation! I knew there was something, was very fuzzy on exactly what.

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happyme (68) · 7 years ago

You are most welcome!

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

Glad you got your answer!

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

The slider appears when you have 500 SP with which to vote. I am told eSteem app has a slider available for folks with less.

And if Krill are self-voting, Imma panic. Run! The rewards pool has been scammed, scammed I say, for $.11!

Their ability to network will depend on their integrity, and that will determine their ability to gain more than $.11/day. I would be fairly surprised if the community didn't nip that kind of thing in the bud - unless we have already run off all the folks averse to such shenanigans with the extant oligarchy.

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seveaux (60) · 7 years ago (edited)

I think it is much more effective to NOT vote at super low % because that doesn't make sense and even does not help... Also the whole bot thing is making the richest richer.. The people that ''run'' steemit are almost invisible and DAN left.. while there is not really anything happening other than a new token distribution system that is just like bitshares and stuff... there are a lot of ''not working'' apps aswel in the app section... the focus on money is in contrast with the actual earnings for minnow who just join.. leave money out as a marketing to attrack people focus on the environment and community that needs to gather on discord to be effective... that there hasn't been action about this is a huge red flag for an investor like me.. So before powering up my initial goal of 10k I will wait and see.. because I don't have the feeling there is somebody at the top who is completely honest and cares for the platform more than the money. So this is a good thing sirlunchthehost. Im thinking with you. proper management and give people the feeling they are cared for other than used would be nice. the whole steemfest thing is still the people who were paid out in huge amount of numbers and got rich because that way other people got attrackted... staying there are 400.000 + accounts now.. while 40% of my followers are actually dead... those dead ones are people who didn't get the feeling they found here the things they were told to find... proper management that's important at this point and I mis it a little bit but it is something that can be fixed. Also fix something to have a section with posts that are actually having value and time put in and have information in a seperated feed that is the main feed that are paid better than bullshit posts or youtubelinks or one sentence posts or other uninspired things so people actually start to do some time and effort and create good informative posts that will be rewarded and seperated from the crap that is now visible in the ''new'' section.

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1 vote

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valued-customer (67) · 7 years ago

You touch on a lot of good points here. Almost 450k accounts have been created, but ~11% of accounts opened in 2016, including bots, and multiples, remain active. Almost 90% of users bail in the first year.

Oligarchical hoarding of the rewards pool, naturally undertaken by folks desirous of tending to their quality of life, proves insurmountable for the majority of people newly arrived, who aren't willing or able to cut deals for votes from whales, and refuse to be relegated to ghettos of neglected, viewless blogs.

My best guess presently is that there are between 25k and 30k unique users, with a few tens of thousands of alts and bots, still active on Steemit today.

Pandering is the route to success for most that stay, and it is easy to see blogs flogging their virtue to whales, particularly in the last weeks, as @berniesander's botnet has undertaken mass flaggings of selected blogs with no little fanfare.

You can practically smell the drool of the panderers, obsequiously sucking up for their 1% pats on the head from their chosen master.

As you might guess, this is not my strategy ;)

Thanks!

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

I don't know if that will work. The anarchy rotation implies a pyramid scheme because you are using minnows to spread the word and you also assume minnows create the base of the triangle who create the bulk of the content. That's usually not the case unless we are looking to have a reddit style free for all.

I think the reality is that the best content will really come from dolphins and select minnows. Most users will come to steem it for the content and just upvote. They have no stake in the game and wont really care about making pennies for curating.

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1 vote

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

In theory both dolphins & whales also spread the word, I just believe new user excitement spreadsthe word a bit faster. The Anarchy Rotation, simply implies that new users are our word of mouth marketers while in the grand scheme of things Dolphins are our content creators and whales our investors, but ultimately all parties shoulder the word of mouth tactic.

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

let me just stop and ask first, what's the goal here? Increasing the user base? increasing quality of content or something else? I think the first two have different solutions and what you show is a campaign to increase the user base, but maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

I guess the goal for this case would be: User Retention/Increase Users & Content Creation. After my mumble hangout we can go deep into the topic.

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

go for it. User retention/increase users is a growth issue, and the growth issue is a derivative of the content. So growing the base is not possible without increasing content quality. That's how I order that up, but I dont think your anarchy rotation works in that way, but again, lets get deeper into!

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

The Anarchy Rotation would be creating synergy with all parties that will promote:
Better Quality Content.
User Retention.
Higher Paying Post.
Word Of Mouth Marketing.

The Anarchy Rotation suggest that all parties recognizes the strength each group has. the top 10% has money, but not time to market, but if they passed it off to the dolphins 30% for content creation and curation to the minnows who then market the fact that they get paid to blog and post original content, we are only playing to everyone's strength.

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motoengineer (63) · 7 years ago

That would be ideal, but there is still a huge problem with ROI, which currently, it is too profitable for upvote bots to exist right now, so why pass off the money to curators? Unless there is a better way for whales to make money, there is no real way to implement what you suggest.

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crypto3em3 (45) · 7 years ago

Great way to explain it, would of taken a massive of wall of text, if you explained it any other way good job

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1 vote

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

10,000 words or more to explain the complex theories of why people cant behave correctly. lol

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omarf (44) · 7 years ago

This way, even the non-believers will be contributing to the crypto-sphere.

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duane.dos (52) · 7 years ago

@sirlunchthehost This is very interesting. I like the concepts that you layout the two theories seem more fair.

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jasonbu (61) · 7 years ago

Seems like a few months ago we were headed towards this model. I recall seeing a lot of contest for free delegation and it looked there was a lot going out. Not so much now. Nice infograph and well done.

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

I agree, but things changed. So we will have to see what happens.

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sircork (64) · 7 years ago

Holy shit, this is outstanding work, and the rightful progression to a solution. Much wow. So engineering. Very architect. Many win.

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

I tried to make it simple, I left out some details that would make it easier to understand. Though I think the idea is received.

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sircork (64) · 7 years ago

Loud and clear, over here. Stay applied man. Stay applied.

Sir to Sir, over and out.

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josediccus (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

The alogorithm is amazing, your analysis is top knotch, this is so wonderful i love this

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

Thanks! I tried to put it in a simple form.

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sangeeta (60) · 7 years ago

you explained it any other way good job. the triangle who create the bulk of the content. That's usually not the case unless we are looking to have a reddit style free for all.

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eleyda78 (54) · 7 years ago

Very good proposal, solves part of the current problem and benefits us all..

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

Lets see if it gains any traction, if not then its another notable idea stored on the chain.

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habib1978 (25) · 7 years ago

nice calculation,thanks

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tonnykhan (50) · 7 years ago

Fantastic post sir..

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robert31 (54) · 7 years ago

Hey @sirlunchthehost,,,,,, it's always great to see your report and always have investors to take the right decision for your post you really done a great work...

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sirlunchthehost (71) · 7 years ago

Thank you! I try bows

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robert31 (54) · 7 years ago (edited)

oh,really @sirlunchthehost ,,,,, keep up the good job.best of luck.you try it. i hope you are win.

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tellmevaldo (29) · 7 years ago

Nice

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