SELF VOTING ISSUE AND WHY WE NEED TO MOVE ON
I think all the "self voting lists" and the entire issues is completely over-shadowing all kinds of other work we should be doing on the Steemit platform.
Things like "greeting and welcoming" thousands of new users monthly, making new contacts that can help us improve the quality of our content, and upvoting and commenting daily our favorite story tellers.
Quickly, my story:
I came to Steemit in May 2017, asked around about self-voting; everyone told me it's not a problem.
A month later, I had been demonized, with my name plastered on Witch Hunt Lists. Dozens of posts across steemit in 1 month!
I am sorry to say this community has dug a large hole, and is now filling it back in. Completely wasted effort in my opinion, over something that needs to be fixed, not by users, but the algo used in a long term way, by steem developers.
To quote @smooth:
"Someone who buys SP and then selfvotes is not 'draining' anything and at best can get back a portion of what was put in. It causes no harm at all."
Investors are the ones who underwrite all of the rewards on this platform. If you are not an investor, or are only a smaller investor, you need to focus your efforts on creating inspiring content that makes investors want to give their money to you.
Whatever else they do or don't do with their money (including self-voting) is not your concern and does not harm you in any way.
Nevertheless, you do have a downvote that you can use to disagree with what you think are underserved rewards. I suggest using it."
"The idea of creating 'lists of shame' and demonizing people is divisive, creates a hostile and toxic environment attractive to no one, and serves no useful purpose.
There is no way to tell from these lists whether the content is deserving of the rewards or not. The only way to tell is by actually looking at the content, and if you think it is undeserving, downvote it."
"Your own statistics show that self-voting is awarding about 8.5% of the reward pool.
I don't find that suggestive of any problem whatsoever. It is probably a very reasonable number given that the current parameters give people 10 full power votes to make per day. Thus one is being applied to the voters' own content and nine to others' (on average, of course). Seems fine.”
Somehow, I'm not sure this will be a popular post. Applying rational logic to a popular topic doesn't always work that well. So be it.
I'm loving the pictures of you @surfyogi.
I think rather than taking out our pitchforks and hunting these people who self upvote we should as you said welcome people to the forums.
We have seen that people don't curate as much nowadays and we need to start helping other people grow rather than draining out voting power with flagging people on some futile list.
I agree that if someone has invested into the platform they should be allowed to take it upon themselves to in some way get a return of investment or else what is the point investing into something which you don't benefit from.
It doesn't bother me but I've seen my earnings starting to dwindle. I wish we had more people scouring the site looking to upvote great content rather than letting them subside and fade away.
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BEST COMMENT AWARD!
I really like your style, and I hope you will upvote yourself for this comment.
Time to post your own Selfies too!
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Well, I am completely in favor of Self-Voting. It's technically right as well.
Let's just say '' I have invested every cent I have , I work pretty hard to provide value content on Steemit and I share good posts by using my knowledge and experience so it's my right to reward myself. Its my money, my work and time'' Why do people have a problem about that?
About myself, I work hard, I help people and I share the content with proper research . After that I only recieve only few cents in the end, If I have a great steem power in my wallet, then of course I would use it to self-vote my content and get some exposure for it. No one is gonna give it to me out of generosity. As far as I have learned, On steemit there are only a few people who care about content, most of the people don't even read the post and upvote by just reading the Title to earn some curated Steem power.
Whales don't even look at minnows. So the best bet is Help Yourself :)
Anyways this is an important issue on Steemit. Thanks for spreading some light on it @surfyogi sir :)
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@cryptonet is a bright light; I suggest you all follow him.
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Thank you for your kind words sir :)
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@surfyogi - You nailed it! I see the same issue discussed across the board on Steemit. You really very well answered it.
That's my main focus. QUALITY CONTENT!
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Oops! I just upvoted my own comment! Now people will put me in the blacklist. Lol!
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Watch out, prepare to be SHUNNED by thousands of users!
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Haha! Yes, that's the latest trend on Steemit!
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Well @surfyogi, I remember you commented one of my posts and up voted your own comment, I have no problem with that I am not the morality police, I don't agree but I guess it comes down to what you think, what I didn't like was you made about 5 bucks off of a comment on my post and you didn't even up vote my post, not even at 1 per cent.
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If a user had not created the content, then you wouldn't have the opportunity to post a comment to self-upvote? Does that not deserve at least some form of reward even if you do not like the original post @surfyogi?
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Maybe it does. Are you going to sit around and judge other's behavior, on a daily basis?
Who has time for that?
I was a very new user at the time; do we give any allowance for "learning the system" as well?
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No I'm not judging. Just pointing out a flaw in the system from my point of view. Great to see that you are upvoting others as well.
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Yes, I do that, when I don't like the post... Sorry, it's not personal.
WE can all just get along, right?
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Ouch, that is cold and I agree this is crossing the line @surfyogi.
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What is really crossing the line, ARE VALUE JUDGEMENTS when someone does not vote for you, but votes for themselves, then IMPLIES many suppositions from this action.
Get over it. It happened. I don't remember why...
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No, I am over it, I don't write articles justifying what I do, that would be you. But I really don't mind you up voting yourself, you can do it all you want, I even up voted your post.
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I want to appeal to "judgemental personalities", that it does not serve us as a community to make judgement over others, on a case by case basis.
(Reminds me of the school grounds, sorry..)
There is acceptable behavior;
AND there is unacceptable behavior.
And for me that is the end of it. Each of us is either within the bounds or reminded to stay within the bounds, and I don't need to be judged otherwise. Thankyou.
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IMO you shouldn't make a game that relies on the players not being self serving.
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Such a good comment; do me a favor, and upvote yourself!
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Sure why not lol.
Oh and much obliged for the upvote ;)
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I think selfvoting is not a problem. If someone has been working on a profile development for month/years or invested money into the profile development than it is a reasonable thing to promote our created articles. If selfvote give an initial boost to the article value, sometimes help to others also, because with the curation rewards others gain income from the selfvote. If we look into this feature it will also help. On the other cases if we deny the selfvote everyone will register another account and delegate SP to vote to the newly created post. Is it better ? I think not :)
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Yep, I'm in agreement with you on this one. I've invested in Steem, and as with all of my investments, I expect a return on it.
I try to shoot for a 50/50 split. I upvote somone else for every self upvote. This gives me an acceptable ROI on my investment from my perspective and also allows me to spread some love to others.
If I'm taking the effort to invest, interact and engage on the platform I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to do so.
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I too believe this is entirely reasonable, and not cause for being spurned or humiliation, and no call for abuse.
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I feel like if it's your SP , you should be the one in charge of deciding where to put it and where not to . This has been a hot topic these days , and honestly if it's worth the self upvote then maybe once a day should be okay for a self upvote
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I've wondered what the general consensus is on self voting and it seems like there isn't one lol. I know people who'll upvote their own stuff and I don't have a problem with it as long as they're using most of their votes for other people's content (like 90% or more on other content).
I will admit I have upvoted my own post before after my SP got above 1000. I've put more of my own money into my account than I've earned (I invested about 60-65% of what I have here and earned the rest) and used almost all of it to power up and contribute to the community so I don't feel I'm hurting anyone by self voting. I won't upvote my own comment on someone else's post though.
Interesting debate. I think there's much bigger problems to address than the occasional self vote, namely the rampant spam that seems to get worse every day.
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I agree there is no consensus. So I would try to build one, that sez, forget about it...
I told many people to "stuff it" until the FAQ addresses it.
Seems they were not impressed by my argument.
I think the best argument, is there is so much more to do, our focus is better served elsewhere.
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Great quote and I agree 100%. Rather than demonizing you, people ought to be thanking you for powering up and helping to increase / prop-up the value of STEEM.
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I was taught it's better to give than receive. Also to be self reliant. Are these now bad traits?
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Good. Bad.
We can spend a lot of time in our lives, judging other's behavior, and be no better off for it...
What a waste of time (usually).
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I totally agree with that.
I also remember an article which was very well received by the community that upvoting your own comments is totally fine and even encouraged.
Now it is the worst you can do.
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I simply want to point out, the self vote issue has completely been blown OUT OF PROPORTION compared to what we really need to focus on as a community!
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Sigh. This is such an excellent post. I wish I had found it when it was vote-able. ... I guess I'll have to find another of your posts to upvote :)
I've been trying to tell the dev's to stop wasting their time and make markets and other ways for us to trade steem all around. ... meh. They listen just like my husband ... who just happens to be a software developer ... hmm. probably a coincidence.
What he says is this, it's like with a dog: If a developer has a project bone to chew on, he's not going to stop without direct intervention or the bone crumbles.
Too many have gotten attached to a point that they can't immediately impact ... but instead they could they wander off and develop something awesome on top of the steemit platform ... something like ... a tool that can be used to validate and track the process of selling / receipt of real life items ... like my coffee mugs.
AND, also, they don't get that we owe it to the system to move those rewards out of that reward pool in away that allows us to move more rewards out of that reward pool ... so we can upvote their uh better posts.
AND not to mention that if they upvote my post / comment, and I upvote my post ... they get a better payout. but ... yeah.... I was told the end doesn't justify the (completely legal) means.
ok ... ty for the opportunity to write my rambley post on your comment tail :)
PS I didn't realize you were already following me around
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@surfyogi Speaking about self voting, it costs nothing except voting power. No money is moving from wallet of the person who upvote. The upvote is the only way to 'mine' Steem from the reward pool and distribute among authors and self via curation rewards."
While it may seem like this on the face of it, the truth is that voting value comes from the amount of SP a person has which in turn comes from investment. That investment comes with lots of risk. The value of Steem can fall, just like with any other cryptocoin. It is also trapped in the wallet because powering down takes a number of weeks. I could of course not invest in Steem power and give everyone the votes they want.
So, again the question is why would I invest in Steem and put it on the Steem platform?
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Yes, this investment comes with a lot of risk.
But it also becomes easy to believe in, when we have a strong community of people that can agree to disagree, and get along.
All great points, thanks.
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I agree that if it's a problem then correct the software to disallow the practice .
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If the system allows it then stop crying about it.
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You should upvote yourself for this great comment ;-)
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Lol good idea. I just did it.
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If they have allowed us to do it, they also think that it is good. But it becomes bad when people only upvotes theirs and not a single post of others.So in this way they are not adding anything to the community.
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yes u r right and i m agree but i think this is a platfarm we get many knowledge from other talented peoples and some time we met only some foolish peoples they dont care others and want make to foolish us and show thier many bad behaviour ohterwise here only some peoples who have a big value rank and people vote him dont any one we need to self vote ouselfs bcz no one vote us the low ranks here i see only preffer the high rank not preffer the good post @surfyogi sir
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You're SP your choice, you can't dictate someones finances.
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I think that self upvote is not a concern, steemit is super platform or we learn a lot of things in a small amount of time and we spend a good time with nice people but it remains an investment and it is the strength of Steemit the fact of selfupvote is a way to profit, thank you very much for this post and sorry for my english :)
resteemed
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I do think self voting is not a problem but you should do so in a minute scale and meanwhile also upvote other stuffs.
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You've hit the mark.
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This is gold!
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This is just perfect!
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You're on fire!
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This is a masterpiece.
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You've made it look effortless.
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This is gold standard material.
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This is beyond amazing.
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So cool!
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This is top-notch!
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You're rocking it!
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I can't get enough of this.
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Well presented.
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You nailed it!
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Impressive work.
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You've got serious potential.
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Awesome!
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Very informative.
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This is absolutely epic!
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You nailed it!
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I'm agree with you... quality content is key.
I did a few self votes (2 times)... but I have mixed feelings. I like to give 100% upvote if there is some quality. That's me, and my opinion, and I don't like to give 1% upvote (or 0.00000001 sbd), just to get attraction.
Thanks for the post.
Have a great day.
Steemitri The Mannequin
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Self voting i think is good in case of quality content because system allow you then it will be good thing.
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I heard that self voting will effect on your reputation. I don't know how far it's correct. But there is man from china having reputation around -12, i asked him what happened with your reputation. He said he upvoted himself little too much that's why his reputation gone to minus value.
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No, he probably was flagged by someone with big SP, there is no rule against up voting yourself.
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I'm loving the pictures @surfyogi
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I think the self voting is stupid. It's like getting free money from a parent and spending it on candy. This place is suppose to be about quality of original content to be rewarded.
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WHY do you have such a strong opinion, and WHAT is it based on?
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Isn't this about earning reward through effort? Or are we in steemit just to get rich?
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I believe it's about earning reward for both effort AND investment. If you power up, you've earned the right to self-vote, so long as the system allows it. If it's a moral issue, then let the witnesses vote to do away with the ability to self-vote (IMHO).
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EXACTLY, and dim views simply yelled louder, are not more correct than this outlook.
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Your money your decision, if you don't like it go get a full time job and invest more so can you invest more yourself.
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So I have a dim view and I talk too loud. Sorry just trying to be honest.
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No, just pointing out that INSISTING LOUDER will not make an argument more plausible.
And it's not about you, for a change, it's about all of us and how we conduct ourselves and socially assemble and discuss topics.
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What about the people that can't afford to power up. "Buy steem". There should be 2 separate platforms then. Those that want it for investment " get rich" and those that want to present good content and get rewarded for there effort.
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Those who can not afford to power up (or who do not wish to speculate on the future value of Steem with their money) should create content, which is exactly what I've done. But both are investors. One invests time (and perhaps influence), the other invests money.
Just keep in mind, without people converting Bitcoin or fiat to Steem, your content on Steemit will be worthless (in a monetary sense). It's those who want to "get rich" that are propping up your hopes.
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Yes I see your point. I follow you for your content and up vote you for it. I still don't like up voting yourself.
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I do believe self voting can be done to a fault, in a way that makes some look very selfish, which is not a good idea when you're seeking to build a following.
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Upvoting comprises less than 10% of the rewards. I just like to point out HOW BENT people can get, over this issue, in comparison to how much it matters...
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To be honest i am a kind of new user
and i have seen many users doing that
and as of for me i would have done the same thing
and i am in no position to say that as my current vote is worth of almost nothing
but to keep in my mind i will definitely allow other users to get some Rewards from me
Thanks sir for bringing up the topic
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Great Pictures and the perfect outlook on life
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Well said!!! Let's not create a witch hunting scenario. With that being said I think some whales could show more support to the minnows by reducing the % of their own content upvotes. Just an opinion. As for upvoting myself as a minnow I think that's a little pointless. Why would I want to give myself a few cents when I can upvote someone else and show them that I truly support them :)
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