View this post on Hive: The Future of Steemit
The Future of Steemit
7 years ago by themarkymark (78)
$1,125.72
- Past Payouts $1,125.72
- - Author $881.90
- - Curators $243.83
1511 votes
- + appreciator: $396.470 (40.41%)
- - ranchorelaxo: $-347.997 (-100%)
- + buildawhale: $313.755 (31.87%)
- + randowhale: $162.284 (100%)
- + hasoon: $54.403 (100%)
- + ausbitbank: $45.398 (42%)
- + shaka: $44.659 (100%)
- + v4vapid: $43.508 (25%)
- + justbone: $35.170 (100%)
- + twinner: $28.315 (100%)
- + geoffrey: $19.840 (100%)
- + ozchartart: $17.890 (100%)
- + yoo1900: $16.369 (10%)
- + timcliff: $15.853 (93%)
- + imacryptorick: $13.219 (100%)
- + donkeypong: $12.755 (10%)
- + ripperone: $10.687 (19%)
- + ayusor: $8.702 (100%)
- + sephiroth: $7.489 (100%)
- + themonetaryfew: $6.770 (100%)
- … and 1491 more
@haejin , is there a reason you cannot do 1 post each day covering multiple coins as opposed to posting 4-10 posts? It doesn't appear that all your material is time sensitive, and if it is, it looks like you have SMS text messaging services for that. Seems like this would be a viable solution. People here are upset about your practices, but not sure I would take it personal if I were you. . Anyone who is exploiting the system would be treated the same way. You're not the first who has done these things and probably will not be the last. . .
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I prefer he do it coin by coin so I can ignore a lot of reading... Most analyst prepare their analysis in this way. I'm not sure I follow the problem, what is wrong with what he's doing? Is he doing something wrong, or just making too much doing something? I tried to read the post but it's going over my head for some reason, what am I missing?
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_FchZPoFmP_0igDxxZPwPAhiXjWxKN1Fh-5M25k2x9E/edit?hl=en&rm=minimal#gid=224399891 <----- This will help you monitor coin activity. I use it daily. Read my blog, and many of you questions will be answered. I am a buy and hold investor, while most people want to make a quick buck and ride the pump and dump- and usually end up with less than zero. Pay especially close attention to the new IRS tax regulations you will find in my blog. Read the white paper, and investigate the developers of each coin, before investing. haejin is a victim of his own success, long story short. http://www.cryptocurrencytrends.info/ He already has his own website, and the whale that funds him is smart enough to realize that Steemit NEEDS haejins content, as we are flooded with guitar pickinging, flower smelling, hippy poets, who think the world owes them upvotes. (Nothing against hippies or deadheads, btw) Hope I didnt sugarcoat that too much. Youre welcome.
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Wow thanks this is actually very helpfull :D
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the frist image of this article has a great concept. peace. thanks boro!
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THANKS FOR SHARING!
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what matters is that together we can take care of this great community and we will always be the majority to placate those who abuse the vote
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Thanks will do. Always looking for more information. Still hard to get coverage on some alt coins.
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Sounds like he's helping us out by bringing content and dollars to the community.
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Awesome spreadsheet man
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Legend, thanks heaps
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Ok call me dumb...but other than the "public interest" column...why can't you just get this data from coinmarketcap.com? Or maybe the opportunities tab...but they didn't give a key to explain the little symbols. What am I missing here?
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You can get it from where ever you feel best suits your needs. Personally, I find the google spreadsheet much easier to navigate, as it displays which exchanges offer the specific coins you are intersted in purchasing. Not every exchange offers every coin. Read my blog, and you want have to ask so many questions, they will be answered when you read my research. your welcome.
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I think his Content is very useful because i am new to Crypto and i can't do some TA by myself now. Because of his Post for Verge i made 2000 $ from 90 $ - I think that's awesome ! They are so many useless Post here on steemit that earns also a lot of money. Just my opinion. BTW these berniesanders bots just downvoted me because i like haejin's Content. This is ridiculous...
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"BTW these berniesanders bots just downvoted me because i like haejin's Content. This is ridiculous..."
Wow, if that happened, things are getting really bad.
Personally I think that if Steem Power is the measure of vote value, nobody should complain why someone is getting more from the rewards pool and why others get less.
My SP is My SP and I will spend it based on my subjective views.
Why don't we take a look at other Steemit posts where rewards are small, but these junk post combined are quite a lot in rewards.
If steemit is decentralized network, everybody has a right to upvote or downvote.
The balance will come just like in the economics - Demand and Supply create the equilibrium price.
Upvotes and Downvotes will create the equilibrium by itself. There is no need to declare a war or post long philosophical post about how @haejin or @randowhale or @anyone-else is acting.
All of the above is my subjective opinion and you may downvote it as well as upvote it.
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This has been happening for weeks, man. I'm not sure if @themarkymark is aware of this or not. This is basically tit-for-tat childish nonsense that bernie kicked off weeks ago. Both groups need to pull their fucking heads in and stop with the childish bullshit. Vote each others stuff into oblivion, but just stop with the collective punishment.
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Nothing would be better for us minnows than for the whales to flag each others VP to nothing every day.
We'd get more than $.02 payouts then.
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:)
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True that!
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What's a whale but someone who brings a disproportionate amount of attention to the platform? Minnows don't bring me here, whales do. If you want to be a whale, and get whale-sized payouts, bring whale-sized value in your content. Dragging everyone down just so you don't look so small (relatively speaking) just makes everyone lose. It's not like @Haejin is being accused of hacking the site surreptitiously. From what I can see, he's getting attacked because others are jealous of his massive appeal. This is the behavior of children. If you think better content needs to be produced, make it! Otherwise, don't complain when the payouts go to those who do!!
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TBQH, the content we post has little to do with our rewards. @haejin exemplifies this, particularly. If you exclude all votes from @ranchorelaxo from the debate, there is no more reason to debate whether @haejin's posts are problematic in any way.
This issue is about rewards distribution, not content.
Further you completely misunderstand my position. I don't seek to 'drag whales down'. I want them to profit MORE from their investments.
The price of Steem has rewarded whales more in the last week than all the self-votes they have cast in the last year.
I seek wider distribution of rewards not because I even care about my personal rewards, but because that will cause Steemit to grow, and create price pressure on Steem upwards, producing capital gains for whales.
I want Steemit to become more than a rewards pool mining algorithm. The mechanism of rewarding content creators on a social media platform has the potential to topple tyrannical banksters, and produce a new libertarian model of democratic governance all over the world.
That's really my goal.
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The whales care, because they're getting $500/post. 5% of $500 is $25.
That's more than you're gonna make this month in payouts. That's what @haejin is costing them each time they post.
Median payout is $.02. 5% of nothing is.... nothing.
We don't care. He's hitting them in the wallet, and they want all the money.
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Now this is something I agree with. Upvotes and downvotes willl create the equilibrium for it self. If someone decide to buy steem and steem power, he has the right to use it as he deem fit. If proper calculations have been made in the creating of this platform, everything will always balance out.
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You have to scroll down a bit:
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@haejin/haejin-exceeds-10-000-followers-this-proves-people-follow-for-good-content-not-bad-content#@dalexx/re-haejin-haejin-exceeds-10-000-followers-this-proves-people-follow-for-good-content-not-bad-content-20180102t200816458z
dalexx (31) · 3 hours ago
You are my Daily Ritual and my Morning Routine since 4 Months.
Thanks for sharing your TA + Knowledge @haejin !
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$0.00
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I agree with you @dahlsom most of the thing this post i can't understand too. Whatever @haejin maybe running inhouse group upvoting with like steemian who have 100% voting power. If once have huge steemPower and 100% worth for 1 vote value $100 then 10 vote can make $1000 very possibly. The matter is if they doing anything illegale obviously he should got stuck from steemit board or disable by stuff. Do you think @rawdawg steemit team help him to do this?
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Why would he do this @rawdawg? He's working within the rules to maximise his profit. Why earn $2,000 per day when he can earn $20,000. There is no incentive for him to do this. We operate in an anarchic ecosystem where people can do whatever they like as long as they are comfortable with the results that flow from the algorithm. I would suggest that @haejin is very comfortable with his outcomes currently.
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Does his daily whining indicate his high comfort level to you?
There is also no incentive for people to stop flagging him at this point ... cuz ... they're "working within the rules to minimize his profit". ;)
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Arguably, using the flag to flag content that is valid and not "abuse" isn't "within the rules". Especially if witnesses are doing it.
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How do you feel about @haejin removing all post rewards from the Largest Cryptocurrency Freeroll Poker Site in the World which is funded by posts on the Steem blockchain?
haejin just killed one of the largest and most successful Steemit communities and yet, no outcry from his 7,000 followers.
Why? Because we did not agree with his large daily sum of the reward pool and were simply trying to protect our and other projects who do contribute positively to the Steemit Community and who do help support other legitimate projects within the Community and who are TRUE #community-builders and not destroyers like @haejin's recent actions make him appear to be.
I am a cryptocurrency trader, I see no value in his post for me personally. If my downvotes on some of his overly rewarded post cost him $1 each, @haejin should realize all that happened with my flag was he donated a tiny portion of $1 to every other Steemian that posted that day.
But for @haejin to then turn around and take ALL of the Steem Poker Leagues post payouts for simply trying to return $1 back to the Steemit Community as a whole, then I guess ...
haejin is showing everyone on Steemit what kind of person he really is.
IMHO, @haejin is a very selfish person to think that each of his post deserves more than an entire projects weekly rewards.
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I am powering down because of it. Tired of wasting time, I am going to take my 200 steem and go home
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His one post makes more then I did in 1000 hours of being on steem . Pretty sad
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How did he "remove" them?
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And if this is a platform flaw... shouldn't a platform fix be the solution?
Seems like a simple adjustment to set a maximum on the amount of the reward pool any one person could pull.
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I think your comments are a symptom of his supporters not understanding how Steem/Steemit work. ;)
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Keep in mind, I'd never even heard of this guy until I saw this post. Now I try to snipe an upvote in before he does, so his self-vote will pay me nicely. Glad the OP made this tip thread.
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Actually, I know @secondstar personally. He's cool.
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@haejin is a profit-maniac tsunami. He is the living embodiment of greed!
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I disagree, he shares his data with everyone, even those who downvote his posts. He has helped people break the cycle of poverty and pay off their mortgages and add much needed revenue. Thats why he is so well liked. His investment strategies and methods are 90% accurate. This is why the whale is defending him, as having his content on this platform adds actual monetary value for those new to the world of crypto. Many are simply jealous of his success and his ability to forecast trends in the altcoin market, plain and simple. If you want to earn more money or altcoin or increase your investment portfolio- just listen to his advice- it will cost you nothing but a few minutes to read his posts- if they havent been flagged by wall street backed, self appointed "bitcoin gurus" with no prior track record, who charge over $2,500 to name a few altcoins.
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I can point you to some reputable sites outside Steemit which basically do the same alt-coin forecast for free without the need to rape the Steem rewards. How does that sound?
Well, my prediction was 95% accurate when it comes to alts without using those silly charts. My money multiplies itself without having to use drawing boards.
As far as I know @haejin is the same person behind that so-called whale constantly up-voting his BS.
Try investing without any capital and let's see how it goes. On the contrary, imagine the Steem blockchain is now dead due to his constant maniacal act and you will see the difference.
You seem to have profited much because of his divine revelations, as an act of gratitude why not you guys offer your cult master some cryptocurrency tips?
I'm sure you read his spam footer begging for donations.
This is what happens when investing becomes more like a religion. I wouldn't be surprised if his followers are also a bunch of religious morons.
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They don't care because he makes them money. If U make ppl money ppl will follow and reward u and u can do what u accuse him of.
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The number one reason to flag content is disagreement on rewards. Below are the listed reasons for flagging. Click on the flag and you will see for yourself. Thanks,
Flagging a post can remove rewards and make this material less visible. Some common reasons to flag
Disagreement on rewards
Fraud or Plagiarism
Hate Speech or Internet Trolling
Intentional miss-categorized content or Spam
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I see that. Have to say I disagree with lumping a simple "downvote" in with a "flag".... they're two very different things.
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Actually, they aren't
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In most platforms, they are. Flagging a thing is flagging it... usually some sort of inappropriate content/spam/kiddie porn/racism/threats/etc. The idea of flagging is it raises awareness on a method of filtering content. Be it a manual admin, or an automated system like we have here where it actually hides the content from people/feeds/etc.
A downvote is "I didn't like your content or have a differing opinion." Not "your content is abusive and should be removed."
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In the white paper disagreement on rewards isn't even mentioned
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I concord with you dear
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If you want to flag people... how about focusing on the spam bots like that ^
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I agree bots are a huge issue, but that bot isn't making any $$$, which is what people are upset about.
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True. People certainly like to get mad over someone else making money instead of them more than over actually making sure the platform isn't just a shitshow of spam trash no one wants to use.
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You don't have any money at stake. @haejin, if he's taking 5% of the rewards, isn't changing your rewards at all. Nada. Zip.
You and the 50k other minnows, like me, share 1% of the rewards.
Which whales get the 99% doesn't matter to us at all.
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I love Steemit but the facts you point out are depressing to me. Steemit is just a reflection of what is happening in the real world (ie. most of the money and resources going to the top 1%).
There are some high stakeholders who want things to be different with @berniesanders being one in my opinion but until more of the 1% richest Steemians stop enjoying earning more rewards in a day than me or you earn in a month or more, nothing much will change. The price of Steem rising the way it is will only make things worse. Sure, we'll see more users joining Steemit in the short term but how long will they still around when they are earning $0.01 average post? Ok, so people might say, "Well $0.01 is better than nothing on Wordpress" but to me that isn't the point.
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You can shear a sheep many times, but skin it only one - Amarillo Slim
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oh no please leave the sheep alone!
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I was asking @haejin to answer. Do you have the authority to speak for the man. The preservation of Steem as a community is most sustainable if everyone works together for the benefit of all. Just like a real community without a governing body would operate. This is a lofty goal as personal rewards are involved and human nature is to be greedy for ones own personal gain so maybe the experiment will fail. It most certainly would fail if 50-100 more people were behaving in this manner.
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Well, if everyone is gonna share nice, then this should change, right?
All for one, one for all!
Well, not according to rewards.
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Where's Waldo... err Uh I mean haejin?
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it s already hard enough to find a chart on a specific coin he put out 10 days ago it would be near impossible if everything was under one post each day.
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It would be easier. Go to the post from 10 days ago, look for that coin. All in one post. Let your browser do that search. As long as steemit has no working search function
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From anarchy to a community of anarchists with a leader who is also an anarchist haha.
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I was not answering for him. I don’t even know him. I was simply posing a question in response to your comment.
In response to the additional point you raised, this is exactly how a community without a governing body would operate. It’s called anarchism. The idealised society that wish to create doesn’t exist. Steemit is proof of that.
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It’s true! If we all behave this way, will the people currently doing it still feel it’s justifies?
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Personally I like this option of combining multiple coins in a single post. Also I think that perhaps that perhaps the name calling from BS actually made things much worse than it ever had to be. Attacking the actual real users that have benefited form Haejin, myself included only poured fuel on an already out of control fire.
I don't like the bots, not even the upvote bots that I in fact used in the beginning but soon realized the folly in doing so. I don't care to see such abusive sexual language in BS post or his army of Bernie bot's post either. I do hope that as STEEMit comes out of BETA that an algorithm is found that can work this rewards pool crap out. But we do need to all keep in mind THIS IS A BETA. What we are experiencing is in fact how production software gets fine tuned.
Look I hate nothing more than I hate censorship. Flagging a post into oblivion and its rewards is not the answer. Perhaps flagging it down to what was a "presumed" reasonable amount prior to ranchorelaxo boosting his earnings too far would be more acceptsble as we weave through the endless beta releases. However I think that the abusive name calling, flaming and flagging from BS came before anyone even attempted to say, "hey can we address this CIVILLY", was ever offered.
Perhaps if we could all get on discord one day and have a civil discussion about this in the community we would have a solution we could offer the witnesses and developers for Steemit Final.
In the end the generals all have the power to tamp this down and cut out the abusive name calling.
But we all need to keep in mind, BETA! For now we are all STEEMit Guinea pigs and the rewards system was not setup by Haejin nor his thousands of followers that may in fact be a few bots but looking at his YouTube following of 19,000 one can be assured that the majority of his 10k+ Steemit following are real people that are seeing real benefits to his Elliot Wave readings.
And just a note... I am the one that is providing the SMS service.
Seems that also got me flagged
Just my two STEEMS Worth.
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because he is greedy. It like those youtubers that post 4 or 5 videos a day when they could just do it all in one
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Why do you even care? I'm not gonna spend much time figuring out your average payout, but a quick glance shows that the rewards on this comment are probably in the ballpark. If @haejin is taking 5% of the rewards pool, that will affect you to the tune of $.35 per payout.
Doesn't matter at all to you financially. When you consider the median payout is $.02, it matters a hell of a lot less to almost everyone on the platform - except for the 1500 dolphins, orca, and whales, who get 99% of rewards. The rest of us split 1%.
Why should we care?
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I dont understand why you attack him. He started iff with no votes and kept writing and posten daily post. All of which are valuable.
As a result he gets followers and upvotes.
If you dont like it, compete with him ans his content instead of attacking users that actually create value.
There is so much bs going on here attack those guys. What about vote buying and people selfvoting like gumpy cat etc.
Why do attack someone that actually creates balue for the platform.
Show me one user that brought more new users to ateem than him lately and put in more work.
He posts several videos a day and 10ish types post all self made and all valuable.
Just leave him be.
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That said i value your effort and love for steem and so i follow you!
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I didn't attack anyone.
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This is a great comment and is the heart of what matters, for me at least. @haejin has not changed one bit since he started posting on this community months ago. He was persistent, put out great quality content and for months made pennies for his posts. This is exactly the kind of advice that you'll find our community doling out to new minnows. His posts were not just a single graph and a paragraph of text they were often a good long video as well where he shared his knowledge and approach to TA. To top it at all off those posts ended up being spot on most of the time and made a lot of people a lot of money and brought him even more viewers from outside the platform. Again, this is exactly what Steem and the community always want.
I watched as his followers grew and more importantly the number of views on his posts grew. His upvote to view ratio was way off because he was attracting a ton of outside views to the platform (and still is). That is exactly the kind of high quality content that Steemit is designed to attract and wants. Then one day a whale starts giving him all of his votes and suddenly all hell breaks loose.
To me this is just another reflection of a fundamental tension that exists at the heart of this experiment where the system itself is promoting and incentivizing something and when that something is actually achieved and is not in line with what some parts of the community want the end result is pretty nasty.
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The whale realizes that haejin is an asset to steemit, thats why hes paying to keep him around. haejin has his own website and doesnt need steemit- steemit needs him. http://www.cryptocurrencytrends.info/
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Geronimo downvoted me. Hes only following 16 people, yet has 288 following him. And hes all whiny stompy foot that his life blog posts dont reap the same rewards as a finanacial expert who has paid off people mortgages- aka haejin. You big crybaby. Have an issue- heres a tissue- try following more people, greedy brat.
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Let's slow the roll right there. Steemit doesn't need haejin. It was rolling along just fine before him. Did he bring new users to the site? yes. Would steemit have been just fine had he never shown up? Also yes.
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With an n^2 reward curve, there would be an incentive to vote for the same content others have voted on.
Bidbots and all that other cancer would be much less lucrative.
edit: selfvote because 'linear rewards' are a mistake.
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Sorry, but in this particular situation, that diagnosis is wrong. n^2 helps prevent posts and comments that receive a low amount of upvotes from receiving high rewards. When users are upvoting to the degree that is happening here, n^2 would actually make it worse. The abusive votes would actually be worth more under n^2.
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I totally agree on that. But changing the curation rewards to 40% will help create incentive to curate. At the end of the day, some things simply can't be done by bots and requires human input. That's why we need strong communities backed by steem inc's sp.
I heard you are a supporting the flag rewards program. Thanks for that.
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There is a believe that paying more for curation is going to incentivize better curation. While I am sure there are some people that will be more incentivized by an additional 15%, I suspect that the vast majority of curators will still perform what I call "lazy curation", where their voting is not really adding a lot of value towards the discovery of quality content.
I think that the addition of communities will really help with the content discovery process, because users will be able to consume content that is more tailored to their individual interests. When SMTs are added on top of that, and communities can run their own "mini STEEM economy" around their individual tokens, I think we will see some really awesome outcomes, and the platform will really start to take off.
Yes, it sounded like a really smart approach to try and incentivize responsible downvoting. I hope it does well :)
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Sorry, but that is only true if you isolate these posts from the rest of the rewardpool.
Under n^2 other posts with more r_shares would get much higher rewards, making it more profitable to combine r_shares.
This would create incentives for a curation process - just like intended in the original whitepaper.
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The rewards that were distributed prior to the hardfork can be used as a base point. There was a certain threshold, I can’t remember what it was (guesstimate around $50) where the posts above it made less, and the posts below it made more when we switched to linear rewards.
For users who have more SP than that threshold, their vote is worth more under n^2 than linear.
The threshold does change of course as the price of STEEM goes up, and it also does fluctuate based on the voting behavior of all the users.
Regardless of the specific place the threshold exists at though, there will be users with enough SP to be above it, and for those users their votes add more under n^2 than under linear rewards.
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I should have probably been a bit more precise with my original reply.
Under
nranchorelaxo has absolutely no incentive to vote for anything other than himself or his buddy haejin; His influence on the reward pool is always the same.Under
n^2, if he only voted for his buddy ( and nobody else voted for him - which is pretty much the case ) then he would have less influence on the reward pool than he has now.Sidenote: Before hf 19 he would have to vote for 40 comments, making your threshold totally inaccurate.
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Either we are talking about different things or your math is wrong.
If we are just talking about the amount of rewards that a single user with his level of SP can reward to himself or his friends with his vote alone (no other significant votes) then he has more power under n^2.
You are right, 40 to 10 did change things. Even if you rolled back both changes though, he would still be able to extract more with 40 n^2 votes spread across 40 posts/comments than he can today with the 10 using linear.
I understand the argument of n^2. Under any system with moderately even distribution of stake, you are right about n^2, and it is a perfect system to combat this type of abuse. The problem is that with the distribution of STEEM, there is such a distance between the larger stakeholders and everyone else, that individual stakeholders can with their single vote essentially reach the tipping point or critical mass at which point their vote squared significantly surpasses the votes of a majority of the other voters and actually pulls more rewards, even though it is technically just ‘one vote’.
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We are talking about the same thing and my math is alright.
There are simply too many parameters to give you any example numbers.
Did you not notice, how selfvoting only became a massive problem after hf19 ?
Even with the disproportional distribution STEEM has, this is not necessarily true.
First of all: If any other post had twice the votes, it would get 4 times the shares in rewards.
The effect of flags would change significantly, too.
A shareholder with half the SP could 'steal' more than half the payout of those abusive posts.
It would also have some indirect effects; As it would influence voting behavior.
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There has been a dramatic increase in self voting since Hf 19. For the average user (even someone such as myself with a decently large amount of SP) our votes are worth more under linear rewards. For those of us on our end of the spectrum (most users) who want to use their voting power to reward themselves, self voting is more profitable under linear rewards when compared to n^2. That is why we have seen such an increase since the switch to linear rewards. I agree with you on that.
In the interest of not just repeating the same arguments over and over, since you don’t seem to agree with my point, maybe let’s just end with the above statement - since I know on that at least, we agree.
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Here are how rewards were distributed just prior to HF19.
I don't think n^2 is gonnna fix things. It has actually probably not got worse with linear rewards, but I've not seen a more recent version of this chart, so couldn't prove it.
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Sadly, it is impossible to compare any data, since hf 19 brought a whole host of changes.
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I'd bet rewards distributions are practically indistinguishable.
Most of the Steem is still all of the power.
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We said we would continue to collect ideas ... I would be curious what you are thinking about my newest one? (That's no call for an upvote: if you don't like it, just don't upvote it - I am interested in opinions.)
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It would allow users who are exploiting the system by creating junk posts and upvoting for a ton of money because they own the account to extract a lot of money from the rewards pool.
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Why? My idea was a reward curve which starts as n^2 and then later becomes linear (as explained in my article). That means at least one couldn't exploit it more easily than one could exploit n^2. It would combine the advantages of n^2 (flat start) with linear (no extreme rewards).
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I’m not a blockchain dev, but I don’t think that could be implemented as a consensus operation because it is too expensive of a computation to have to perform on every vote.
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I am not so sure if computation would be that expensive ... There had to be 'only' a vote counter to switch to a linear equation after a certain number of upvotes per post ... (OK, maybe a few other things as well ...)
You might be right that there wouldn't be any consensus (or maybe also straight rejection of the idea), but on the other side it won't cause much harm to discuss it for some minutes. ;-)
By the way I also wouldn't be angry at all if some of you busy witnesses (hey I voted for 30 of you, isn't that great!) would comment ideas like this one directly under my articles from time to time. :) (At least @felixxx did ...)
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There are a lot of discussions on the topic. I'll keep the idea in mind, and bring it up if it seems appropriate.
If you have ideas that you want me to check out, feel free to send me a link on steemit.chat. As long as they are serious proposals and you aren't just link spamming me, I'm fine with you sending links :)
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Could you dumb it down a bit more? This sounds like it could be something great but hard to tell what you explicitly mean.
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https://steemit.com/steem/@felixxx/my-take-on-the-self-voting-vote-buying-and-reward-pool-rape
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thanks, reading now!
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#MeToo... thanks, reading now!
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I don't understand why witnesses are brought into this. We have nothing to do with this situation. If some witnesses are involved in bidbots, that doesn't mean the rest of the witnesses should be dragged into this mess.
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Because I'm a witness, I am the primary target and they are following mob mentality.
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Honestly, I think the point was not really to have witnesses give up rewards. The point was to present fake options to look reasonable, but making sure only the desired option was possible.
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Oh, I think he was serious, from the conversations I've had they see it as him vs witnesses.
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Well that's not how things work. They need to understand that.
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I'd like to refer you again to the key phrase, "Mob mentality."
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I call it sheepling mentality.
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some sheep are better than others bhaa bhaa ;-)
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There are many targets on both sides.
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I can see the logic, even though it's flawed, and I'm sure you can too. Witnesses are like politicians and one way of looking at that leads you to expect them to lead by example and have exemplary conduct.
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:D
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Like the best moment to take good
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There is no logic. If there are a few bad apples, doesn't mean the whole basket is rotten. Besides, those flag and flame wars are between a few individuals, not people vs witnesses.
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But when any of those people ARE witnesses, they then are representatives of the platform... in a sense. As such, it's the platform and all of it's other representatives, who people feel they're being targeted by.
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Steem may encounter troubles rolling out SMT adoption as per the white paper if a business entity discovers that it’s audience can basically run the system. In specific, this is around the meta-economics game going on around what is being talked about at the moment. The flag war.
With regards to Haejin’s content, I swung by to check it out. It’s consistent, well formatted and the audience are really receptive to it with a lot of engagement. I don’t think it is my place to judge really in terms of worth. Crypto forecasting isn’t really my bag, but, on the flip, is listening to me sitter on about electronic bleeps and bloops anyone elses? More than likely not. It’s all in the eye of the beholder and someone with a huge amount of weight is finding value there.
As such, Steemit is working as designed. It’s hands off free market stuff. The main thing here is the distribution of power in the free market is like the real world status quo, heavily weighted. Either Steemit will carry on as is or they will come in with management controls. I have a feeling that they will err towards the former as the tech world tends to come from an egalitarian mindset (even if the concept is fundamentally flawed). I do not envy the ethical decisions they may have to make if control measures are introduced.
For the time being, I’m continuing being Mr Minnow. More than anything, I just like having a platform to carve out a corner with some content, and I’m getting that opportunity here and it’s been really rewarding - on social, monetary and creativity fronts. I’m continuing to monitor what is going on as I’ve a keen interest and investment in the platform. My main hope is that the big names in this can work it out between them without resorting to the flag penalties on both sides. It’s a shame when you see the leading figures of the site going at each other when there is such a current of positivity and hope in the main.
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Wouldn't that be nice. But the self voting kind of ruins the analogy, plus the fact that we have a shared reward pool which gives everyone an interest in large, consistent, regular voting patterns (which suggest farm voting) especially when they are self votes.
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Yeah, and it's probably not in the eye of the major investors right now. There is a lot of dumb money going into STEEM right now. Not because STEEM is dumb, because there's dumb money going into every single crypto in existence. If investors at large were to discover that people are regularly cashing out tens of thousands per day with nothing but spam BS, people would be stampeding to pull their money out.
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Market forces are whats running it. Im guessing your being sarcastic.
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Do you think so? I'm not so sure. I think those with a lot invested are actually incentivized to normalize that as they too tend to self reward and cash out from time to time.
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I mean there are people who load tens of thousands on bittrex or binance and sort of indiscriminantly buy altcoins in the 20-50 list because they're low cap, and have the ability to really explode in value. Some of them really are crap coins, but the ones that are legit will explode and the gains make up for the loss of the bad coins. STEEM likely has a lot of investors that have never even created an account on the platform.
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A lot of the money pouring into crypto is smart money - money that is going to take over those currencies.
Money that can then crash it anytime they want, and buy it back cheap, by causing panics.
Real money, in other words.
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Right, I just mean there are a lot of people that are buying coins that they know absolutely nothing about. They'll see a comment on reddit or see how low the market cap is, see it pump and just buy it based on that. I would wager there is a not-insignificant amount of STEEM holders that aren't even aware of the social media aspect of it.
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I don't think that dumb money is the bulk of investments in crypto. It's impossible to tell.
The inflation oncoming is a damn good reason to avoid dollars, and even dumb investments in other currencies are at least smart to get out of dollars.
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Is there a solution? It seems to me that @haejin is simply working the system as it exists. If there's a weakness in that system, it's not his fault. I have no special opinion regarding the quality of his content (I haven't gone to take a look at it yet), but the votes it's getting don't break the rules as such, do they?
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It's quite impossible to break the rules as far as I know, so you are correct. This is because at the basic level code is law.
However that does not mean we have to accept what happens, and to facilitate that disagreement we have our words and our flags.
This however may not be working and the code as law may need to be changed. Time will tell.
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In anarchy, nothing can be shared equally. Just like a pack of lions killing a weak gazelle, The dominant lion gets the most meat, the rest are left with scraps. Do away with the reward "POOL"- the term reeks of MLM Amway type shit. If you want your posts to be higher, spend some $ on buying some steem and use it to increase your posting power. The problem people arent understanding is- people are voting for haejin because he makes them money. LOTS of money. The "artists" think their post is undervalued- so they downvote everyone around them. COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. People come to steemit thinking "FREE PAYDAY" --- wrong. Come here and start giving, then you will get noticed and start recieving. Check my blog for some tax information on cryptos- no one has given me anything, but I such is life. I put it out there to HELP.
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No system shares equally. We have to ask what it is we're sharing and whether or not sharing equally is even the goal.
Steemit does not in any way attempt to share equally. What is being shared out is a crypto asset which is created out of thin air, but which has utility in the system (gives you more voting power if powered up), which some people are willing to treat as money (in exchange for goods and services) and exchange for other assets.
Because it's created out of nothing, comparisons to what other national governments (even imagined ones) systems do is confused.
Sure, I agree. But that's not related to the problem. The problem here is that if you piss off some nasty rich people you can find yourself voted against in retaliation. This is obviously unfair.
So what's the solution to that? Keep your mouth shut? Just roll with it? Give up and leave?
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BUY STEEM. THE SERVERS DONT RUN ON FAIRY DUST PEOPLE!! Steemit isnt run out of someones mothers basement. Its a business that operates without advertising. Who pays for the serveres, electricity, climate control, technical support? Elves? fairys? The Great Pumpkin from Charlie Brown? Somebody clue me in, Im all ears.
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Its called the MUTE button.
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Muting someone and burying your head in the sand doesn't negate a flag.
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It gets rid of people you dont want to associate with. Much like blocking telemarkets. See it in action.
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Oh I agree. It effects everybody, and I personally think there’s got to be some sort of management in there. You can’t just let market forces run things alone.
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Especially when you end up with a bunch of self-appointed hall monitors who bought their way to the "top" of the power structure.
Each one, telling you the self interest their working on is for the greater community good..
Haven't we had enough of that across governments?
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Sure. Now lets see you pay for the bandwidth, servers, electricity and technical support and other costs neccesary to keep this site up. Remember BITPETITE?
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So much for "distributed".
And the witnesses aren't exactly in it to lose money... Lol. They're making plenty.
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FTFY
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Quoting someone incorrectly ... That's a-paddlin'. I'm going to have a word with the hall monitors.
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Promises, promises... =p
I've been a baaaaaaad boy. Make me hurt real good!
XD
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#decentralized
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Or the business finds that only a few in its costomer base own enough of the companies stocks to run the show the way they see fit..and the stock holders are blinded by greed and run the company into the ground for short term profits....
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Lack of faith in the people running the biz will do that.
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Yeah, the only way SMTs will work is if they disallow whales.
Let me go one step further: The only way Steemit will work is if they disallow whales.
Oh...
P.S. This isn't just a "free market," this is the dystopian look at free market. This is why most free markets need some moderation to actually work.
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Or we need to organize to combat this behavior anarchically instead of appealing to authorities. I think communication is a major part, and fighting censorship on the platform from bad actors/abusers. It is really a case study in anarchic conflict management, how do we police our open commons from abuses, while following the ethics of anarchism?
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The problem is, the only communication that helps is communicating with whales that listen to try to stop this. I could gather together 10,000 people like myself and convince them all to give up all profit they can make and spend their lives flagging abusers all day (I couldn't actually even get close to doing this do this) and our collective downvotes could knock $100 off the rewards on one of haejins four posts. Even then, he's just the beginning. At least he isn't actual spam like most of what the bid bots upvote. Conflict management doesn't work very well when there are power differentials that are in severe excess of what you're likely to ever encounter in the real world.
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You are right, this is a laboratory for what is going on Inc the wider world of fiat money. Very interesting game: how to keep people with power from being assholes!
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The only way to become a person with power is to be an ASSHOLE. Nice, ethical people always lose. Read machaveli work.
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I'd like to point out that the inverse of your example is also true. @haejin's rewards don't matter to minnows. Media payout is $.02, and @haejin is taking, at worst, 5% of the rewards pool.
He's impacting $.02 by 5%.
5% of nothing is.. carry the zero... ummm.... nothing. Still nothing.
It doesn't matter one bit to minnows which whales are taking 99% of the rewards.
No matter what, 50k minnows share 1% of rewards.
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I think the problem is that the market is already centralized, and on this platform, market-power is almost the entirety of power.
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There are no rules or ethics in ANARCHY. Thats why its called ANARCHY. lol.
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I disagree. Anarchy can only exist with ethics and voluntarily agreed upon codes of conduct. Otherwise, anarchy dissolved into despotism, which requires additional revolutions to undo.
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The definition of ANARCHY is having no rules. Once you have rules, its no longer ANARCHY.
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That's not true, no rules mean chaos. If you research anarchy it is basically a small governing body where everyone has a right to vote. I read, and I can't remember who wrote this, true democracy is anarchy. We can have an equal vote on what rules to follow and apply this to our community.
Right. now huge investors have a large vote compared to others here on steemit. That is not anarchy, it's a Plutocracy. That's taken from what I've studied a little bit, I am not an expert on these issues.
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Has it ever occured to you people that this site MIGHT just be an elaborate social experement on human behaviour in a non advertising platform? Contemplate this.
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Thank you! Yes and Inc so curious how anarchy can solve from Plutarchy dilemma!
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anarchy means no rulers. not no rules.
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Just stating this again does not make it true.
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Without rulers- who enforces the rules? why have rules, if you beleieve so much in anarchy?
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Dont worry, dandelion, the effects from the mushrooms will wear off in a few hours, and you might be able to understand who pays for the servers and bandwidth and other costs of keeping a web platform like this operating. Its not trolls, fairies or magical unicorns. ITS WHALES.
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Let's do a little thought experiment!
Whales invest in Steemit for profits. We can see from BTC in the last 6 months that the best way to profit from investment is capital gains. If you'd bought BTC in May at $1k, and sold at $20k, you'd have made 20 times your money.
Whales on Steemit aren't getting that from mining the rewards pool, but they are managing to keep retention down to ~10%.
Steemit is how the market for Steem is grown, it's special use case. By doing things that will retain users on Steemit, the market for Steem will grow, and upwards price pressure will apply to Steem.
Capital gains for investors will be the result.
However, driving 90% of users off the platform YOY will cause the price to stagnate, and eventually go to zero.
Then investors will have all the Steem, and it will be worthless.
This matters.
@haejin doesn't.
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Hahaha and whales can be trolls or faeries, benefactors or abusers. It’s up to them, and everyone else, to discover way too move thru this territory.
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Without steemit's content creators there would be no steemit....so let the big investors pay for the overhead when no one wants to use it anymore.
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vis-a vie
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Even if you could get every minnow on the platform, even the weakest whale would be beyond their ability to reign in.
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Valued customer- you make to much sense for these people. Its a shame they dont understand this.
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That would be wonderfull! Finally hardwork would pay off and not power of money!
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I say we introduce Pirannahs, to eat the whales. Then everyone is well fed. ANARCHY IN ACTION. When you have 39 whales deciding who gets what and over 400,000 people on steemit- DUH- the game is rigged. You have to be rich and buy millions of Steem to be a whale, OR- be a sneaky creepy person and take a picture of a beautiful woman and post it on your profile and show your cleaveage to get upvotes. Think about this. I always look at other peoples wallets, also. And I have noticed some people follow me and repost articles and make more than I do. Thats life.
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There are not 400k people on Steemit. Of all the accounts opened in 2016, ~11% remained active as of Nov. 2017. Around 500k accounts have been opened, and around 50k accounts remain active - including bots, and multiples.
Still, 39 whales is absolutely correct, and since they own all the Steem, they completely control the platform. They are the market which Stinc serves.
The rest of us are price supports.
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Вы не учитывали golos.io - российскую вилку steemit. Точная та же платформа. You have not counted the users of golos.io- the russian fork of steemit. exact same page- mirror of steemit.
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I confess I do not have the ability to reckon with Golos.
Is what you said, and what my answer responded to.
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Its my opinion that this is an elaborate social experiment being conducted by the worlds Intelligence gathering agencies. Golos.io is an EXACT mirror of steemit.
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Golos is an exact mirror of Steemit, with it's own users, and it's own rewards pool, all of which are completely separate from Steemit.
Steemit has somewhere between 20k and 50k actual users, presently, as far as I can tell.
It's practically impossible to separate actual people from bots, or multiple accounts.
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I've not gone over the whitepaper recently but I have a feeling the business entity can choose weather to have STEEM as a usable token alongside their own. And if it is chosen, their are still variables that can be set. e.g - a STEEM down-vote can't negate value from an up-vote from ABC token.
Good man. 'We' have little part to play in this game when the main players now have Wallets in excess of Ten million dollars.
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I’m just wondering if someone could wade onto a platform, buy a load of ABC tokens and start dictating things. You get a lot of people putting Bitcoin paywalls on tokens, so there are plenty who have the capability. Then again, I’m missing some gaps in how SMT works and there is a bit of a gulf in reading a white paper and translating that to the real world!
Regarding using Steemit - I mean I just like using it in its idyllic conceptual state. Which is nice! I can’t really impact this big meta thing that is going on anyway, it’s like busting into a boardroom when I’m some guy who just does the post.
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I don't think so. Sorry I cannot give you the perfect answer as to why, but I think (as with Steemit), a particular account would be holding a majority stake. Does this impact decentralized ownership? Perhaps.
One or two folks perhaps didn't get the memo here, nicely put!
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BRAV-O!
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well done
very good idea
my dear friend
thank you so much
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i wish i could just reach $10 per day LOL
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My wish to dear
But certainly you going to reach it
Steemit is the future
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You will. It takes time. I was where you are at just a few months ago. Now I'm just above your current Goal. Now my goal is $100/day.
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i hope that time comes soon :)
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Dear Friend
Like the best moment & every day & night to take good
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I wish I could just reach five. I post quality posts once a day and I don't even have anyone to see it, not to talk of an upvote. Meanwhile, there are people abusing the system to make 10k+ a day.
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And... what communities have you joined and actively contributed to? You wont get any votes without followers and you wont get any followers hidden by yourself in a dark room posting. There are over a hundred great thriving steem subcommunities to participate in, and you must participate to get value from them and build relationships.
People come here expecting money to fall from the sky or something. Do you have a project? Are you building a following by adding value to the ecosystem? Have you joined communities and been a friend to make a friend?
You can open a pizza shop, but the register wont fill it self you have to make great pizza (content) and then maybe sponsor a kids sports team (participate in the community) and then advertise (actively be in your communities being a friend to make more friends, who will then follow you and vote on your content, if its worth voting on.)
Or you can complain your way through it, expect it to magically happy, post finger pics and whine, while those of us with less than 7 months on the system have earned 10-20 grand in steem and sbd which a LOT more in fiat, built massive followings, contributed projects, software or community leadership to the ecosystem and actually WORKED to earn our income, because this ain't no magic ATM machine.
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^^^^^ This, this and more of this. Why do people struggle to understand that the best way to make this platform a success for themselves and everyone else is to WORK at it.
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I literally made no complaints. I do put out great content and I am working my way up. I was just pointing out the fact that some people are cutting corners. Did not say I would stop making great contents or anything. Was just making an observation based on the post and added a funny gif.
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@sircok I am new here so I have lots of stuff to learn. I must say thanks for your comment, it was very insightful.
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Why not resteem your post- invest steem to get steem. Its simple. The front page of the newspaper goes to the highest paying client. If you arent confident your posts have value, and dont invest steem into reporting them, you remain in the back pages, in the classified ads, if that makes any sense.
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You cannot resteem your own post and the front page goes to those with the most views or comments no highest paying clients. I do plan to invest in steem, I'm investing my time and while I plan to invest my money, now is not a good time. Also, why do you think you should put in money to get money? Steem should be about content not pay to play. We already have enough of that in our government and it's sickening.
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I agree, but thats the way it is. The money you get from steem comes from.......PEOPLE WHO BUY STEEM TO MAKE THEIR POSTS STAND OUT. IVE DONE IT. When are people going to learn there is no free lunch? Look at other peoples wallets and monitor their activity- if you want to emulate their success.
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Lol I agree, I would get to your position at some point but not now. All I am asking for now is a chance to prove my worth. Then when the time presents itself, I would invest financially in the program.
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Get your steem power up way high, then you'll have loads of sycophants falling all over themselves to get you to upvote them.
Until you upvote yourself, then they'll scream bloody murder because you got the money from your vote instead of them.
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Thanks for the advise and thanks for being polite about it. Most people around your steem power are not this polite, they are arrogant brats.
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If I were willing to be one of those sycophants, I'm sure it would be higher. Lol.
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Agreed. Lucky for me, I invested in STEEM before I actually used Steemit (I like to diversify my portfolio) so I got to start this account with some STEEM all ready for me. Other than that, it's way to expensive to pay-to-play as a newbie.
Goodluck with your content man! I'm in the same boat. I want to try and prove my worth with well discussed articles & blogs before I delve more into the pay-to-play.
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Beavis- From Beavis and Butthead? Youve gotten fat! FIRE! FIRE! FIRE! LOL
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lol
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YES!
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I tossed you .02 for writing what all of us little guppies are thinking. :) Happy New Year!
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Yes, it's a pain to watch people milking the system complain.
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I wish I would reach 10$ per week!
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thats also true
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that'll right
thank you very much
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Me too! I'm amazed at the amounts talk about in this article.
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also i guess the figures are in SBD not in USD
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You're not kidding, me too!!
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haha, love it @gleek. I guess it all goes back to "it takes money to make money!"
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It doesn't take a dime to make it here and i know dozens of people who came here with not only nothing but from pure abject poverty conditions and they didnt cry - they worked it and boom, they are good a couple months in - No Sir, not money, tho that does work too, but it takes work, plain and simple, and most people you will see here with low reps and big dreams wont do it. Just like they never got rich on ebay while others did or amazon while others did, or on external blogs, while others did. Some work, some don't. I have a full time job, but still spend around 20 hours a day on steem related tasks. and i am incredibly successful without ever really investing much at all (maybe like $200 months and months ago once?)
yep, its WORK, and it gets so wearisome hearing people complain when you look at their blogs and they are in no communities, post mostly crap, and have not made any effort to create followers by being a good community citizen. It's a tad maddening, when the work isnt actually that hard, but people just wont do it.
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Yeah, I think the OP on this comment thread was just kidding. Still, you have good advice. Since this is a social network, people without a large stake to start with, have to work extra hard to get involved.
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I helped build multiple communities here over the last 6 months, one of them the largest single community on steem (no longer with them so i shall not name them) and I saw these complaints over and over from people who just cannot grasp that this is a J-O-B JOB, not a game or facebook or a free money magic machine. It takes a LOT of work, I know, because i came with nothing, Im a top 80 witness now, a solid community contributor and founder, ive built projects and given them to the community to call their own and more, all while owning a partnership in a major non-crypto software company that keeps me plenty busy on its own. Welcome to life, where there is no free lunch. You gotta earn it~ :)
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As down to earth as it gets...but...we still love you :-)
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Ha, nobody is more down to earth than me, and when you spend all your time down on the ground like that, you sure dont want any BS laying around near by :)
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Lets say for fun you make $5 hr. 20 hrs x $5 = 200$ a day you are investing. get real.
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Every human on earth has an equal allotment of day.
No money was required to do it.
Get real, no excuse you can make I haven't heard a thousand times, onboarding new members every day.
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Sleeping 4 hours a day must make you really tired and cranky. There are only 24 hr a day on the planet earth. you spend 20 a day on steemit. Bad work life balance if you ask me. " I have a full time job, but still spend around 20 hours a day on steem related tasks."
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Give Peace (and @steemsilvergold) A Chance!
https://steemit.com/haejin/@sirstacksalot/whale-wars-give-peace-and-steemsilvergold-a-chance
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thanks sharing this article! I dont have any idea of it until now
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Never negotiate with terrorists.
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Quoting Bush the warmonger! LOL
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Tom Cruise = Whale Matthew McConahey = Disgruntled minnow. lol. I always try to apply a humourous short video clip in an attempt to explain my position. Actually, that was the best movie I ever saw with Tom Cruise, lol
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Some humor, to lighten the mood.
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Hi @themarkymark
We recognize you as one of the primary leaders of Steem.
We see that Steemit would benefit from an upgraded system for clarifying and preventing High-Stakes Abuse.
We bring to you an idea, a solution; Introducing the Steem RewardPool Protection Guild.
The idea is relatively simple. Everyone who joins the Guild gives 1 vote each day(automatically distributed) towards flagging the most prevalent abusers on Steem. By joining the RewardPool Protection Guild you obtain a weighted vote (proportionate to your steem power) that gives you a direct voice in what EXACTLY steemit abuse is, and which steemit abusers we will target first.
Please explore more details in our posting; https://steemit.com/steemit/@earthnation/another-solution-to-dissuade-steemit-abuse-reward-pool-destruction-the-steemian-rewardpool-protection-guild.
Let us know if you have any questions! We would love to collaborate with you in making Steem even better!
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Hahahhahhaa
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Such fighting is rather childish and I find it sad that people would go out of their way to attack certain individuals on the sheer basis that they disagree with them. People need to just take the flags and move on. Especially when they are making bank in the meanwhile.
Conflict like this could be better resolved if we validated larger votes against the smaller votes in the total sum. To validate a larger vote, we simply count up the value of the smaller votes and compare. If the total sum of the every vote but the top vote is less than the top vote, then we should penalize the top vote for not having legitimate support. We can treat flags separately the same way. We trim the vote until it no longer exceeds the sum of the remaining total.
With such a system, lone self-upvotes would be negated and @haejin would be earning a more appropriate $40 per post. Rewards will be back in line with expectations and we can move on.
Or we could keep doing nothing. Not that I would be opposed to that. It gives me things to write about.
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This sounds a lot like vote negation, which was suggested a while back but never saw the light of day.
I wonder if those against this originally may be having second thoughts.
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This does not work like vote negation, however, in that nobody is locking up their SP to use against people. With this idea, the distribution system itself negates a portion of the vote rather than a user or group of users allocating SP to negate some of the user's rewards.
I go into more detail about the idea here.
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Thanks for the info!
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Self upvotes get me too. They are deemed acceptable, and I’ve adopted them outside of the 30 minute window myself in accordance with the general way things run. I’d like to see them addressed as I’ve seen one particular prominent YouTuber come in and begin to full weight upvote every interaction with his audience. And there are a lot. If you have a lot of cash, you can get a lot out of the system.
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There's nothing wrong with voting for yourself. The issue is that we don't want to reward self-upvotes unless there is enough support verifying that vote. We don't want to reward people that do lazy one comments and then upvote themselves behind the scenes. We also don't want huge whales voting for themselves without a significant community to back them up as well.
So for prominent YouTubers, if they bring an audience, they should be rewarded, but if the community can not match their vote in magnitude, they shouldn't be rewarded. The same goes for their commenters as well.
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Very much a case by case basis. I do see what you mean.
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Thank you! I’ve caught wind of these whale wars. It’s a window into the psyche of people who have disproportionate levels of power and influence...kind of a laboratory for how global billionaires must also feel and think.
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Simple Solution @ next Hard Fork:
No Rewards after 2nd Post in 24hrs
Max Rewards capped at 1% of reward pool in any time period. Day/week/month/year
I don't think that would be unreasonable.
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I would agree with some level of capping as it would restrict some of the bots that just post random news articles and pictures.
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I think 2-3, maybe even 4 posts are reasonable.
It all comes down to quality, value, and rewards though.
If someone is posting 5 times a day fantastic content and is only getting $5 a post. It isn't going to make a big difference to the shared reward pool. Now 10 $400 posts a day is another story and is the entire point of the issue.
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I work hard on my one a day post. I even have a college graduate(wife) editor. Cranking out 4 quality posts a day would be a full time job. So at the absolute max I would say 4 should be the cap.
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What I thought @haejin should do is just group up his posts. He has morning, mid-day, and evening splurge of posts. Why not just group them together? 3 posts a day would be nice. I also like it when he does take the effort and posts 2 or so paragraphs per image, but he's not really doing that much anymore, right?
The one thing that has disappointed me about @haejin above all else is that he ended up doing exactly the thing he was decrying - wielding his power to abuse others and steal their rewards. I'm not even talking indirectly, but directly. @haejin, you didn't like it when @berniesanders did it to you, so why are you doing it to others? That is the way of the bully. Show you are better than that.
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He can post as much as he wants, no one has a problem with that. The problem is 10x$400/daily. The proposal I mentioned is to decline rewards after so many posts. My contact with them thought it was reasonable, @haejin did not and responded leave him alone or he will burn the place down. He started attacking even before a response was made.
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Then just call his bluff and cut rewards off after certain number of posts.
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I’m glad I powered up only yesterday it’s a great start to the new year let’s hope it continues. Cheers mike
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I cant believe he's making $20K+ a day, thats so sick...
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I'm new here, so I'm sure I'm missing the nuances of all this, including all of the history of the back and forth. Regardless, from what I've read so far, from this post/comments and others, it all seems to boil down to this. Unless there's something that haejin or anyone else is doing that is against the very few rules that exist here on SteemIt, they are perfectly within their rights to do what they're doing. If what they are doing is against the rules, than the powers that be should put an end to it. That said, it also would seem that it is within the rights of those who oppose such behavior to rally everyone they can and do something about it. Since downvoting, along with posts and comments drawing attention to the situation, seem to be the only way to hedge against this, I say, do what you got to do. This community has the power to do it, if we choose to use that power. This experiment isn't just about making money, or being sufficiently rewarded for your efforts. It's also about what kind of community do you want to build. Do you want regulations like everywhere else in the world, where a lot is dictated for you, or do you want more say in what happens. Do you want to be a part of something greater? It's our community to build and destroy. Personally, I would like to find some kind of common ground and find the way to live and let live. So, if you think haejin's posts are worth everything they earn, continue to vote them up. If you think the opposite, vote them down. Advocate for some kind of change, too. I would prefer a civil discourse, like what appears to be largely happening on this post, but expressing things how one wishes to express them is part of what's going on here, too.
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It is great!!
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I don't really know why you people care so much. The person in question is simply working within the system. Instead of blaming him, how about you work to change the system itself.
There must be some way to change the platform to encourage the good posts and still let the people use their steem power how they want.
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Let me know if I can help you with anything.
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Well me moved on in terms of technology, but we are still in the same profit maximalizing sceme... however.
You mainpage-header is awesome by the way hahah - LOV IT! You have a new follower
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I just think you deserve so much more support on this! You rock bro!
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What is this nonsense, that means all of us wasting our time on steemit. All money goes to these people and we get nothing out of it. This post made me realized that , there is no future in steemit. We work very hard to creat one post and get nothing at the end. These guys do nothing just posting some carts and scrambled words and get payouts of 100 of thousands a month. Not fare someone has to stop these people, there accounts should be closed. This is pure curruption there should be a limit ...i cant think straight about steemit now.
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You are calling for centralization and control which is completely opposite of what block chains are about. Have you joined any communities, done anything for the community? Posting alone is not going to get you anywhere, even if you are Hemingway himself. You have to get involved, its a SOCIAL network, and you have to participate in communities to build a following. I KNOW MANY people who came here penniless and are quite comfortable earning well now, they did the WORK, like starting ANY business and didn't cry, they just kept getting up every day and working at it, building relationships, honing their publishing quality and usually to be successful also support, create or participate in steem community beneficial projects. So what do you do from that list, besides post poorly constructed content? Would opening a restaurant in your town, not cleaning it up before you open to the public and not telling anyone or building good will or promoting in around your community work? Nobody is going to eat your food if you don't go tell them it exists and its served in a messy place...
I looked at your posts and clearly English is not your first language, but that and lack of funding hasn't stopped me or hundreds of my multi-cultural global friends here from making it, however, I couldn't read your posts or wouldn't read them because you didn't even run a simple spell check on them.
How hard do you actually think you are working.... really?
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Thank you for the advice and isights you gave me , I'll work on them. Meanwhile i would like to let you know that, I dont have compatible tools and equipments to work with. But i am trying to produce a good contant anyway. The time and energy i put in my posts , it speaks for itself. Even though i dont have a PC or laptop to work with. All the stuff i wrote or published is by only using my anciant smartphone. Everyone isnt born with a silver spoon in his mouth my friend. I am glad that you criticised me , that helped me to look at myself and review my mistakes and weaknesses. I am thankful for your generous reply.
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That's a might powerful response. All points taken in kind. Be well. Good luck.
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@themarkymark. I was there when the whole thing went down. I asked the same question @rawdawg asked and I was attacked by @haejin followers. As a minnow, many of us work hard to create good content, only to have it go unnoticed. Fine, afterall, no one is obligated to upvote my posts. But my god, he really milked it. To top it off he posted his wallet address to procure contributions, but then, he was not in it for the money. Please.
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I'm not going to pretend to understand the technicalities but I find it sad that a platform with such a positive potential for authors of real and relevant content is being tarnished by greedy scams like this one appears to be. Good on you for at least trying to bring back some fair play, I hope others in your position do the same!
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@themarkymark - As Steem and Steemit continue to grow, will such issues still persist in your view? Won't other users take away enough rewards from the pool for people like @haejin to get a smaller share, even though the SP of his upvoters increases? (This would probably assume Steem grows faster than this SP)
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The issues will just get worse until Communities and a few other changes get released. The community doesn't want to act out of fear of being attacked, and there is no central authority to go to. The current spam/abuse groups are too small to deal with it.
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I am a new Steemian and don’t quite understand all the intricacies of this platform but i DO appreciate those who stand up and fight for a true and honorable system. I’m sorry that others find it appropriate to attack as a means of defense, especially regarding ones parenting, which is just obnoxious. Thanks for doing you and your honorable efforts to keep this place a healthy and progressive home to us all!
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The future of Steemit full of disappointment.
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Loved this posts, and loved your courage. Actually thats true:
Steemit is a platform where actually is not alligned to incentive valuable content, but instead, to get power. I explained this in games theory on my article: https://steemit.com/steemit/@decomoescribir/the-steemit-paradox-making-valuable-content-vs-making-money
I was thinking what the hell was going on with the self-voting system as well, and i conclude that is kind of clever so people involved on steemit, keeps making activity and engagement with others, as an extra incentive.
We are just seeing this being born. I'll write another article, but in a short time, if mayor changes are not involved in the platform, i dont see people will actually be using Steemit, they will prolly be suing Appics or other Social Media based on Steem. Of course, this crpyto will skyrocket its value.
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This is sick!
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themarkymark somebody is earning 20k per day while other genuine writers are still struggling with cent per day. I wonder when this will change. Anyway, let see what 2018 will be. Whales are not even ready to help minnows anymore, majority are after their belly.
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Never voted for a witness before but @themarkymark just won my vote. Also, you like Firefly so that helps. :D
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Thanks
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This is a war of Titans that only you can solve !!! I do not think it's any good that they are arguing and having bad times, but of course it's about money and when it comes to money every human being brings out the savagery that he carries within him.
Speaking of MONEY a few days ago I made a post thanking and thanking ALL the system of STEEM and its members, users and collaborators for helping me with a few miserable rewards that helped me not to go hungry !!! The truth was a disaster the post , I received 7 votes in total (2 are mine) for two posts one in English and others in Spanish.
The total earnings is $ 0.43
I think the Titans have to solve their problems peacefully and value the works of those of us who are in your shadow
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Basically becoming the real world where money talks and nothing can be done about it unless everybody stands up and does something.
What did you think about the good governance piece written by @dan?
Do you think their would be a way to implement governance on Steem?
Is there any way they could be more viable? I don't think asking people to give up their VP on that scale, while inviting backlash.
Most people can't handle getting flagged, and so they don't want to get in on the issues.
Me, I decided to not care and took some down votes from Haejin. It hurt, but I have had the community help me out a bit and in the end, I am hopefully educating more people to the issues at hand.
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interesting article i am new to this community of steemit, as i am sure many others are i am looking to make money here just as anyone else but, i also would like to have an impact on positive groth also, each one teach one philosophy, together we all can grow. thanks for sharing
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I love your constructive approach. my 13th wittness vote has been sent:)
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Thank you.
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how could this have taken so long? two of my fav people? at last (at least) you meet!
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Your dedication to this issue is appreciated, but it's hard for me to blame any person who is taking advantage of the rules. We either need to allow people to use SP as they wish (and be content with a certain quantity of lousy content) or else we need to improve the system somehow. I think giving a return to passive investors is one option, which would keep more people on the sidelines and able to earn a return by not having to participate in the content (we know it's not pretty when some do). And hopefully, communities that are well-managed will cut down on the junk also. It's a conversation we need to continue having, for sure.
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The key is most assuredly in the communities. You got that right for all the reasons you already know.
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Wait... I have a question... is this just a misunderstanding of a fkn typo!?
"2,700% of the reward pool which is not even possible"
No... it's not... and even if he is hitting 20,000/day that would be 0.8% of the 2.4 million total reward pool. Pretty tiny rape.
Pretty sure your numbers are all messed up.
What makes this feel even stranger is that you literally run a self-vote service people can bid on with @buildawhale.
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I believe the fact that the original screenshot said 6% but it was due to a bug is the big issue that started this mess. It was a bug in a third-party service that @berniesanders and myself were not aware of. Using the same formula it would be around 1% and not 6%. It was later fixed by the developer.
Haejin's zealots latched on to that to start a campaign against anyone in disagreement with them and used that as the mantra. If you do the math factoring in SBD, the number is actually very close and actually lower than the actual number. So in the end, it doesn't even matter, but they want to drain the reward pool and don't care about anything else.
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Far FAR from draining it. No more than any of the other self voting whales all over the site are doing. Or those profiting on selling people bot votes.
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I keep getting server 500 errors from steem.supply...
As for the "what to do"... are flag wars really what the flagging is for? Punishing accounts for taking advantage of the way the system is built?
I feel like they're not. That they're there to help identify if content is/isn't abuse. If his content is legit, and you're flagging it anyway, it's a sort of misuse of the flag... and thus a form of abuse you're now committing yourself.
Flagging does more than just reduce reward pool... it hides posts. Specifically to hide "bad" content.
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Under the current framework steem has no future value. As long as steem continues to be polluted with people who shill coins and mislead others for marginal personal gains, the true value of steem will never have the opportunity to break through.
Steem would be a great alternative to youtube, I do not know why they haven't tried to position themselves in this manner yet. Move away from being all about crypto and start focusing on being more like youtube.
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I want to propose a new steem frontend, called something like "flowit". It would use Page Rank algorithm to rank the accounts. Page Rank is good at identifying fake accounts and it basically tells you how much "Flow" an account has.
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So the problem is Steemit is becoming too centralized?
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What is this? Why cant the drama stay on things like twitter or facebook?
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This is almost as bad as the bots that auto upvote several times a day. It really discourages the community we have built here.
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I haven't been following Haejin on Steem.. I found out about his predictions on telegram, and started following him on twitter.. which links to Steemit posts.
I've made money on his posts, and I've noticed people actually depositing Bitshares on his bitshares account.
My take is that he's making people money so they are showing their love.
You can't manufacture that "love". You have to earn it.
Yes, he's taking a lion share of the upvotes, and this will likely change when he has a down-slide in his predictions or if people tire of his posts.
Until then, I think it is unlikely there is scamming or coercion going on. I really doubt that this type of following can be coerced.
His analysis is finally getting rewarded. It won't last forever, but it is a good example of how to get upvotes on the platform.
Go create something that people value...
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You actually get it, Songminer. People are willing to give back when you give them something of value. Just because your posts dont get the vote you think they "derserve", is no reason to put down others by downvoting. Create! Emulate the success of others, its that simple.
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Sounds great , so useful
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I never knew who was Haejin
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http://www.cryptocurrencytrends.info/
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The flaws are built into the system, so any "abuse" will be inherent in the system. When Steemit was being created, maybe it would have been a good idea to not give so much weight to the "whales". Maybe the range of rewards should have been compressed - with newbies beginning with a .05 upvote and the top being one of .50 or so.
Look, in any economy you will have people who milk the system. From upvote bots to cons like that belly rub thing. I think more out reach would be better. Get more folks onsite and the reward pool will be disbursed among more people. Maybe instead downvoting, the witnesses and whales concerned for the future should adopt five or six minnows each and upvote them to help them along.
As for myself. I have been commenting and posting. Quite surprised with the progress I have made. I have just begun to experiment with the upvote bots, because money is power here, and I need more Steem to power up. Anyway, my one cent worth.
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If we have better content his reign should eventually fade, however there is a crypto craze right now and he is capitalizing so it may take a while. If he is exploiting a bug or a systemic flaw in the design, then a fork to fix needs to happen sooner rather than later, assuming we identify the issue and it truly is a flaw.
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What if I told you that @haejin and Kim Jong-Un are actually one and the same person?
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I would tell you the penis enlargement pills I purchased with the winning from my nigerian lottery scam are actually working better than advertised. Want me to forward you the link? Those pills really work!
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Can you um, dm that link my way... asking for a friend.
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lol.
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Make Communism great again!
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great analysis, keep up the good work!
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post
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Interesting and kinda scary!
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After reading this i have more vories about steemit.... i couldnt understand who is right?
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Both sides are right and both sides are wrong. Have you ever taken 2 kids trick or treating? Then heard one whine because one got 2 pieces of candy more than the other?
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You are right! :/ Its all about money than. Over The World has many figth and war are going on becouse of money! I hate this.
I think, i shouldnt be in steemit. Or just stay in art part. :(
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Shit like this always blows over. In a few weeks nobody will care, and just keep posting content with value if you want to succeed. STEEMIT is not liquid, if you powerdown, it takes 13 weeks to get what you powerdown. I usually try to powerdown half my steem, and get 3 steem a week for upvoting others content, and I recieve it back in votes. You have to give to be able to recieve. Check my blog for some very good links on taxes and other crypto information I think you will find very valuable.
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This only means something is very wrong with the system et al.
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The entire display has been nauseating. One party is a dick who thrives on witch-hunting and inflamed the entire situation but the sheer selfishness and greed displayed by the other side makes me fear for the future of Steemit. The corrupt behaviour is reminiscent of a banana-republic government. Frankly, if Steemit is to succeed as a social site, I wish both parties could be shown the door. For those who like reading, if one is Lord of he Flies, the other collective is Heart of Darkness.
As others have suggested: how about a cap on whale voting power, say 1-10%? Identity verification may also need to happen and one person, one account become the order of the day. Limits on the number of posts per day also begins to sound fair in this context
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thanks for helpful info
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My account has suffered greatly from this whale flag war. Our accounts cannot be seen as collateral damage just because two users are beefing. We need a solution and need it fast.
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I have just started reading on this platform and looking forward to writing blogs and share my content. This piece of content right here helped me a lot, understanding @steemit. Thanks to @themarkymark and excited to share my content to the community and in return getting all the support I can.
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DAMM 20k a week like that?! Crazy.
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MADNESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
that's all what I can say.
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I just came over from Disqus, it's my first day, and there were all sorts of shenanigans over there, one popular channel had -30,000 followers for a while, I imagine with money involved this is a much bigger target.
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I think it is interesting that someone can produce this amount of money from just blogging. I know there are plenty of folks who know how to game systems to their advantage. It seems Steemit is no exception to the black-hatters that have only one goal which is to take advantage of the folks that are subservient to their computer rather than getting computers to work for them. I think there is some jealousy that abounds when someone figures out the inner workings of an algorithm. That being said when this results in actual monetary gain rather than social capital it makes me wonder how ethical it is.
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very nice!! @themarkymark
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great post
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Excelente publicacion. Felicitaciones
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0.143 steem dollars is all i earned in last 15 days of hard work and look at this, here i am reading a post that is talking about one user earning $20000 a day. Some people are just lucky i guess or may be they better at manipulating the system.
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holy cow , 20K per day
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very very interesting. thank you for being the metal in the armor on the site. I am new here andreally apreciatte the learning and the way you spelled it out, very easy to see. Thank you
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This seems to me to be the way the system works. I have read a multitude of posts over the past few days that in some way relate to this topic. We have a set of rules (an algorithm) that governs the distribution of rewards. If one person is able to game the rules then they reap the rewards. Its really is that simple. There is no central authority to refer these issues to and no motivation to form one as it goes against the decentralised principles of the system. In the absence of a higher power we must self adjudicate as @themarkymark is attempting to do by raising awareness of this issue.
You are exactly right however that this is the future of Steemit. With no appetite for centralisation, we are stuck with the system we have, which is a system where those with the wealth to buy influence, or the intelligence to game the algorithms are given an advantage.
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"I wish I could just reach $10 per day lol"
Me too but $3 enough for me for now 😌
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Woww amazing
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I have tried to stop RPR at a smaller level. I come out more unscathed then some. But it is evident that the abusers' mentality is the whales have so much why can't I take some. Or "its not fair". This is the same from the small farming abuse to your large situation. And it should be killed. We need to keep the idea that hard work is what gets people to succeed here, not "luck". Or steemit will never be taken seriously.
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nice job @themarkymark we did get rid of these type of actors if we are ever going to grow the community and your actions will surely help us do that so thanks!
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I think greed could kill steemit. That guy has made a massive amount and seems to think he deserves it. I'm not sure why he inspires such loyalty when he's depriving others of rewards. Ah well, that's the wild west of steemit
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when you make people do X2 X3 or X4 a month thanks to his call guess what ?
You earn respect and loyalty !
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Keep kicking ass markymark... ride that wave !!
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he exploited the bug and went away with it :(
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That is truly awful! And freaky. We must all take a stand! These people are true scum on steemit. I shouldn't be intimidated by whales like that. Should not fear of being flagged. Kick some ass!
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Thank you for this data, I wondered what was going on! This platform is in beta and open dialogue helps investors feel confident issues will be addressed. I've been reading about abuses of the reward pool since I joined steemit back in September 2016. One of the questions I have is why do the big accounts have any say which way steemit will go, like using their power to flag accounts that doesn't happen anywhere when people hold stocks in corporations.
I think investors should be limited regarding their power to call the shots. I am not smart enough to figure out exactly how that will be done. But I see more troubles on the horizon if the abuse of the reward pool is not addressed.
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Thank you for your hard work, I agree with you 100%. This is someone with a lot of money exploiting the system so he can earn a lot more money. The content he is posting is not even close of being worthy of what he is earning for it.
If you compare this to real world salaries, professional stock traders dont even earn this much money trading stocks, as he earns writing about trading stocks/crypto on steemit (if this were to continue on a daily basis for a year). Not even most professional writers who have written books and won awards earn this much money. He is just posting typical technical analysis about price movements, this is nothing new it has been going on since the invention of stock markets.
This is a serious problem with the STEEM blockchain, because as it becomes more popular some people with a lot of money will invest into STEEM and try to exploit the system, to get a high return on their investment. Sucking the reward pool dry and leaving the rest of the user with crumbs. Unless everyone unites and down votes users like this, unfortunately most people will likely not be aware of the situation.
I dont know what the solution for this is, I dont think there is a perfect solution. To me it would make sense to maybe modify the blockchain to put a max on the value of a post and maybe even a max cap on how many posts/comments a user can create. This would not solve the problem because a user who want to exploit the system would just create multiple accounts, but it would make it more difficult. Also it would make it easier for other users to downvote posts when they have a lower max value.
Not sure how to solve this problem, it really is not possible simply because the way the system is designed, the more money you already have the more money you will earn...
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It would be better you publish this comment as a separate post instead, since nobody's even care to up-vote.
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Waaah, thank you for your information!
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I am just new to steemit and struggling to increase PR and #steem power but there is no way to do so i am also posting high quality content and also engaged with the steemit community too. but all in vain :( Please guide me how to use #steemit :(
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This post has been deemed resteem & upvote worthy by your friendly @eastcoaststeem ran by @chelsea88 (not a bot)
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What about some hard coded restrictions such as: no one can get more than 1 or 0.5% of total pay out pool per day.
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So he'll just make 7 accounts.
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Interesting post. As a newbie who is still getting my head around how this all works you give a good insight in to the politics of steemit. I'm still getting my head around it all but will continue to follow these types of conversations if anything, just to make sure that I'm doing the right thing.
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good info
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That's a lot of money. Is this consider as an abuse? or legit since they play by the rules anyway
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There are always the greedy people who scam a perfectly good system (or kind of) and ruin it for the majority of people. :-/
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Hi @themarkymark
I'm not sure I understand. is he claiming 2700 % of the reward pool. As you indicate in your post this isn't possible?
I'm not disputing the facts in your post just trying to get to understand it better.
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The 2700% is a bug on Steem.supply.
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He didn't say that. It was a more like 7 % of the reward pool.
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Where did you read 2700%?
:]
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In the first screenshot above. It's a bug in steem.supply before they fixed it.
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I always read it as 2.7% instead. Whoops haha.
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Damn. I thought Steemit handled the greedy ones. Seems not.
I am here hoping that i'll manage just 5 SBDs per post and he's redeeming all that?
Equality is for some!
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Does steemit has any mechanism to stop over posting so one person or a group cannot hog most of the reward pool.
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If we look at the cost per view interaction this post is approx. worth $.25 cents a view. If we incorporate comments and value them at 6x the value of 1 view, we get a cost of $.16 a view for this post.
If we look at one of @haejin's recent posts, we see a value of approx $0.178 a post using the same values. (His post was at over 11k views but only 34 comments).
Using this indicator Steemit only values @haejin's comment 11.12% more than yours.
It does not speak to the quality, yours seems to have taken more time to compose and has elicited much deeper, thoughtful responses dude to the large comment discrepancy.
I think the scalability of haejin's posts are the main issue, but if we look at the internet outside steemit, posts like this have value as they bring in a lot of eyeballs and clicks.
Fundamentally steemit is trying to create a blockchain where advertisers can reach an audience, and that is what the steemit value of a post represents.
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Thank you for sharing such a good information with us
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Interesting information and it helps new user's like me and other's new or not involved with block chain technology to understand it's flaws. $20,000 per day for a blog and/or reposting news written by others is clear abuse and should not be allowed. I wholeheartedly believe in a free market, but organising a gang to manipulate anyone or thing is definitely not free market principles. We need to as a community come together and not only believe in standards, but enforce them whether we object or not with the material. Thank you for your bravery bringing this to light.
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