Pay It Forward! A better way to enjoy steemit and find great content!

in steemit •  8 years ago  (edited)

#payitforward

This place is awesome! More importantly, I'm having a lot of fun!
I've spent way more time here than I probably should, and I've been thinking about the current content curation system since I got here.

The original idea was that people would read the content, think about it for a bit and then upvote what they like. This would get the mod's attention who could then read it for themselves and kick it to the front page.

FYI: Whales and dolphins, are whom I am collectively calling moderators or mods.

It's a great design, @dantheman clearly put a lot of thought and effort into it. It worked awesome as long as content was produced at a rate in which there are enough moderators to curate the content.

This appears to be happening in reverse now.

Many people aren't actually reading the content until the mods approve it. They just upvote as quickly as they can after the 30 minute cooling period and hope that they got the right one. Or they build an upvote bot and base it around some simple rules that will make the task easier. Either way, content is being upvoted before it's being read and this is creating a lot of problems as the spammers are getting the upvotes they need to drown out the good stuff.

Part of the problem is that there are way too many players and not enough mods and so we have a firehose effect...

Guys, the problem isn't the mods!

There have been a lot of possible fixes suggested, but they all require changing the platform and also...

None of these are positive or sustainable.

Here is the simple truth...

You can't fight people who bend the rules, by adding more rules.
Best solution is not to fight, but to eject them from the game entirely by rewarding a task that a bot or spammer cannot do.

Insightful commentary!

Here is a solution that doesn't require ANY changes to the system at all. It properly leverages the power of minnows and allows them to get their content noticed without any whale baiting, without spamming and without gaming the system. In the meantime it gives the mods a simple and easy way to find great content. Oh and did I mention it's not something you can build a bot to do! ;)

I'm introducing a new hashtag #payitforward

When you put this in your post as the first word, you are inviting everyone to drop by, read and comment on your content. But in exchange for accepting the invite, which may involve reading something they might not necessarily be into, you're agreeing to cross link your posts.

You might possibly make a new friend in the process too!

In other words..
It's using social media to be sociable! #whodathunkit?

Caution: Doing this may cause you to expand your horizons and maybe make a new friend.

Here is an example...
Alice has a post "Our vacation at SeaWorld, a photojournal"
Bob has a post "Electrically stimulated inducement of transcendent states of consciousness in rhesus monkeys."

They both start their posts with #payitforward

Bob stumbles on Alice's post, the title of which isn't particularly compelling to Bob, but because of #payitforward he checks it out anyways and leaves a comment like...
"Wow! Alice, it sure looks like your little monkeys had fun at SeaWorld! Listen I'm not sure if this is really your bag or not, but I was wondering if you wouldn't mind dropping by my latest posting about a science experiment involving my little rhesus monkeys #payitfoward Great post, I upvoted you!"

Alice sees this and heads over to Bob's blog...
She reads Bob's fascinating study, and provides some constructive criticism.
"Bob thanks for inviting me here from my latest blog. This is a really great post, but it's basically a plain wall of text right now and a bit hard to read. Could you edit it a bit and I'll check back in a few hours to see how you're doing? Clean it up and you've got my upvote! #payitforward"

Alice then returns to her blog and leaves a response to Bob's comment as a reply...
"Wow, Bob! He really pushed the limits of science there! I have questions about the ethics but it's really interesting anyways. Anyone interested in animal testing, should really check it out. Thanks for the invite! #payitforward"

Now we have cross linked posts between 2 people who have never met eachother and may not share a single common interest, but at least they explored steemit together.

Anyone who visits either Alice or Bob will see a few things...
First off, they are both actively inviting new friends.
Secondly, they are checking out each other's content and curating one another and inviting others to do the same.

Thirdly, if you're playing this game right, Alice and Bob are both seeking out additional posters who have hung out the welcome mat and they are repeating this process as much as they can.

This allows anyone who finds any #payitforward participant to also see content that person has seen and commented on. This breaks down the barriers to entry and communication. It makes it "OK" to tell us all about your interests without doing it in a spammy way.

By doing this you are saying...
You have taken the time to read what I have to say. You commented and upvoted me which provides me with visibility. I promise you, I will return the favor.

It means that anyone who sees me, will also see you.

It won't matter if that person is a minnow, a dolphin or a whale.
We don't need a moderator to help us find great compelling content. We just need to have our friends share in a way that isn't getting drowned out by the noise on the front pages. But we have to feel free to return the favor, hence the use of a hashtag.

Not everyone wants to play the game this way.
It can look like spam if done incorrectly.

But I want to play the game this way and if you want to play my version of steemit , then here are some simple rules to follow.

Think of this as a simple game with only 5 easy rules!

#1 Start your post with #payitforward That way if you don't find me, I can at least find you and know it's ok to chime in. You're not a bot and you're interested in a lot more than just that single post. Also don't try this in posts that don't start with #payitforward if they don't have the tag then they aren't playing the game right now. Respect their wishes.

#2 To post an invite, you must post relevant commentary first. You have to be respectful. Who knows? You might actually change someone's mind on something important... Or you may meet your perfect nemesis. Either way, this version of steemit is a lot more fun. So speak your real mind, but be insightful about it please. You're not part of a hive mind or a bot, so don't act like one.

#3 Provide a quick one liner summary, of what your post is about. Don't make it clickbaity or offensive and please don't do this at all with #NSFW topics. Make it an invitation, not an obligation. The other blogger has invited you to link your blog, don't make them feel like they have to return the favor. #payitforward is used in the comment to remind them they agreed to the game. But it could still be a while before they can get around to it, especially if they're like me and spend an our or two composing something epic to say.

#4 This is a reciprocation game. I post some thoughts about your blog while in your blog and then I post some thoughts about your blog in my blog. What I say in my blog is a quick reactive summary and an attempt to categorize the most important parts. For instance, Bob's reply to Alice's comment in his blog would be along the lines of "Alice sure did a great job on those photos and her kids had a blast! If you're looking for fun family events SeaWorld looks like a fun place. You should check it out it too. #payitforward"

#5 Please for the love of god, use anchor tags for links.
Recent studies have shown that it's visually distressing seeing a link longer than 10 to 25 characters and most people won't bother to click a link longer than that regardless of content. One or two words, 4 words max. An anchor tag allows you to provide some semantic information that extends beyond the title in a way that is visually attractive. Also it's been a standard for over 20 years now people. Just use it :)

That's all the rules!

Now a side effect of this is that if a moderator happens to stumble into it, he or she will be able to find more compelling content as well as some commentary on it and won't have to swim through a sea of botspam, so we all win!

I want to thank...
@dana-edwards for her post on attention based networks, which is the source of the idea, this being a human based version of it.

@pfunk for his constructive criticism on leashcodes which reminded me that we need to have rules in place, that are opt in.

@casandrarose for putting a more positive spin on things in general and reminding me that this place is all about helping eachother create and curate the best content. Posted this idea in her blog first as a comment, she told me to go blog about it.

@jako had an idea with similar objectives a week ago but got no traction. Other than the name and end goal of highlighting quality content they're completely unrelated. But his idea is a good one too, read more here

Feel free to talk about this topic here, or discuss a bit about your blog. I'm in and out today, but I promise to check in as often as I can today and at least once a day over the course of the next 30 days to see how the #payitforward game is proceeding.
Have fun and remember to enjoy steemit!

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

@jeeves, show @williambanks some love and some related post, will you?
Danke!

Hi! I am a robot. Thanks for calling me! You might also be interested in these posts:

  1. Introducing MadBitcoins ($5299.04)
  2. Cheetah bot: The Fight Against Spam and Plagiarism Continues ($3764.1)
  3. Live Debate! A Bitcoin Maximalist vs Steem Dolphin ($3727.07)

@jeeves, thanks man, beer is on me.

douitashimashite! In case you don't know Japanese, that means You're Welcome!

This is good, but would you like some help on more relevant results?
Also you should leave off the dollar amounts, they'll get dated and they just make me jealous :D

@jeeves01 Thank you!

De nada! In case you don't know Spanish, that means You're Welcome!

This is a really nice idea. Could you explain the bit about anchors? You mean the whole a tag, or something different?

Also, is it ok to update an existing post to participate? I'll do it anyway, since my visibility is low due to weird posting times. Anyhow, hope this takes off. I won't do a link here, but I am sure to participate! Still feelfree to. Check my stuff out, I post about my madcap adventures in Russia and elsewhere.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@egjoshslim/steem-whales-are-a-joke-look-at-the-steem-power-this-account-has-it-s-a-bought-and-sold-account

more influence needs to be given to the upvoting system in respect to the non whales! or a new content filter system to help content be seen by more. just idea spitting but it needs addressing!

also good post, like to see others discussing real steemit issues!!

@egjoshslim Awesome, glad you like this and welcome. I remember it was your post up there where I first got the idea. While my previous post was trending I was actively surfing, found you, invited you to cross link and we both got on an elevator together once a whale found one or the other of us.

Nice to see a familiar face!

I love this concept and I am so glad that when i made my first post last night I came across your page. You are slowly but surely introducing me to exactly what I wanted to get into on the platform itself and addressing my concerns before I voice them. You rock xox

@bohemianrkchick Welcome aboard! You are very welcome and I'm glad I could be helpful!

Your post is 6 days old and I've just checked #payitforward section. Seems it doesn't work ah? May be poeple don't understand what to do and it should be explained by simple words.. The idea is not bad, I liked it. Thanks.

@andrewawerdna Yes I'll be doing a 2.0 with simpler explanations soonish. But it's a movement. It takes time to build. We get one or two people trying it out each day though.
Hoping in steemit.chat and letting people know you're playing helps too since there are a bunch of us in there doing cross promos and playing.

Great post and wonderful idea. This would indeed help bring the community to a more personable stage and help in interaction. You are a Pioneer my friend...

@alwaysfelicia Thanks I appreciate it. Your stuff is incredible, make sure to link it here too.

Well unfortunately I found this one too late to update my posting, but @lehard also had an idea 2 weeks ago, also called payitforward
I didn't mention it earlier because when I saw it, it was using the exact same picture I am here and thus I assumed it was my post (sometimes when I'm in a hurry and searching for stuff I don't even read titles, it's something I need to work on)
The goal of this place is to give credit where credit is due and @lehard had a cool idea with the same name I thought you should check out.

#payitforward Thanks for the recognition! This is a great idea, though I don't understand all the particulars yet.

What is to prevent a bot from adding #payitforward and then grabbing some random sentence from the blog and calling it a pertinent reply? I'm just unclear how this game weeds out bots.

@casandrarose There's a couple of things. First off, it's intentionally a bit complex. The procedures involved are too complicated to make it worthwhile for a bot to attempt to play.
Secondly, if the bot is able to make insightful commentary then perhaps that's not a bad thing. However insightful commentary requires insight and almost no one has that level programming capability.

It would require understanding not only the concepts of the blog being commented in, but also the concepts of the source blog and how it might relate.

A bot isn't going to be able to do this and the reward for doing it is a bunch of minnows coming to vote, which might generate a dollar for the owner. However if it's spamming everywhere it's going to be readily visible just like it is now.

Ok so to play, first of all you start your blog post with #payitforward as the first word
Then you fill in your content and assign other tags and categories as per normal.

Submit your post then go hunting for other players. They will stand out because their content will start with #payitforward

Once you find the player, then you read their blog, say something insightful, and link back to your own blog, finishing your comment with #payitforward

When they come and say something insightful then they end with #payitforward

Finally, you respond to their comment in your blog giving a one or two sentence reaction and a little bit of content information that could help someone looking at it decide if it's something they might be interested in looking at too.

That's it and just make sure you follow the 5 rules!

Thanks for stopping by and I'm glad to have you here!

Let it be :)


:)

"Many people aren't actually reading the content until the mods approve it" many people wait for a post to be 10$ or more to upvote or comment nonsense in them.. I like your initiative, but since english is not mother language, there are some things that i dont understand.. the #payitforward should be used in the title or in the tag section as the first one?

@mialolita It should be the first word of the content, just like I did. Notice how the post starts with #payitforward ?
I also added it to my own tags for this post as well.
Your title and your choice of categories, labels and other tags is up to you. But if the body of the content starts with #payitforward that is what I and others will be looking for when we are on the look out for other players.

thank you

You're very welcome. Feel free to come back if you want me to look at something.

Great idea. While I understand the "don't hijack my post" viewpoint, that's not the way everyone thinks.

I would just caution that just because a user has #payitforward in one post, that doesn't mean it applies to all their posts.

@patrice Agreed and that's why it says that if the post doesn't have #payitforward then they aren't playing right now. But good you called it out specifically like that!

I like your idea!

@jennamarbles Great thanks! Here's hoping we make this into something huge that fixes the curation issues. I'm incredibly excited about the potential here. Feel free to use it in your next blog and come back here #payitforward with me.

I like your idea. It is harder for good posts to get in front now, becase there are so many users that don't read, just vote. Sooner or later that will be fixed by community. Good luck with your tag. I will use it in my next post.

But why to my next post when I can use it now already. You should check my post. I have 50% Off to steemit apparel if you use Steem Dollars to pay.

awesome I am going to try this

Really though, I don't know why I haven't participated until now. I think I saw this when it was first posted, I liked the concept so I upvoted it, but I was in a different mindset back then. @williambanks, man, everything you said here really resonated with me the second time I read it. It's a nice way of working around the system that's only giving opportunities to some.

I've been quietly making a concerted effort to leave heartfelt comments to posts that I find interesting. So heartfelt that a lot of my comments have the same length as a lot of short posts. Some of them acknowledge those comments, but a majority can't even be bothered to leave a response. You can see from my posts that I try to be very encouraging, but it's pretty disheartening when the comments I leave fall on deaf ears.

This initiative is pretty great and I'm kicking myself for not actively participating sooner. I leave thoughtful comments and I reply to every comment in my posts, but the reciprocity has been dismal. It seems I've been trying to ram through a brick wall when all this time there's a segment of Steemit that's openly interacting with each other. I'm diving head first into this and I hope that it would reap the promised results.

I wish I could edit my old posts to add #payitforward, but I'm leaving some links here in case anyone is interested in reading them:

I didn't want to link all of my posts, but I retroactively place everything under #payitforward . All I ever wanted is to promote interaction, and I hope this is finally the avenue where I can do that.

Thanks for providing the community with this opportunity!