You got to admit it: the first edition of the 'Novice' tournaments today was a big joke.
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Unfair
Today, the first of a series of @steemmonsters tournaments for novices took place.
In the announcement post you could read the following paragraph:
This tournament is specifically meant for players who do not have a lot of funds to spend on cards or who have just recently discovered this addictive game which has us all hooked. This is your opportunity to get some liquid funds to spend on the market and level up your cards!
However, when looking at the list of participants, there were ony few novices to be found. What caught my eye was the long list of well-known, big players who were all playing at least Diamond league.
The Last Chance
Initially, I did not want to sign up, but seeing so many top players entering, I saw only one opportunity to get the prize money to the people who deserved it: I joined with the intention that in case I would win any prize money, it would be distibuted among the people who could really need the financial support if they ever want to grow their deck.
Unfortunately, my level 6 deck didn't make it past the first round...
I hope you are starting to see my point...
Differences
Let's be honest here: if you are telling yourself that everyone has the same chance of winning when all cards are capped at level 1, you are lying to yourself.
First of all, there is something like experience. It seems like a lot of people forget that there are new players coming in daily. These are people without a lot of experience. Those of you who are playing in the top leagues- myself included - have been playing for weeks.
This difference in experience alone makes it unfair to join a tournament that is meant to give low level deck players a chance to grow their account.
But there is more...
All you top players own a complete deck: all epics, all legendaries, and of course a maxed dragon set.
I've been giving away starter decks I paid for myself to people who couldn't even afford to buy one. If they can't afford a starter deck, how on earth would they have the money to add for example a Hydra to their deck - let alone some dragons?
That's the second reason why this whole thing is unfair.
Is It Goodwill? Or A Promo Stunt?
When I first read about the Novice tournaments, I was delighted. Finally someone who was willing to look after the little guys.
That feeling changed when I found a personal invitation to join the tournament in a Discord DM, sent to my strongest alt account.
That's the moment I started to get suspicious...
If you genuinly care about the smaller accounts, and want them to be able to grow their decks, what's the use of inviting a level 6 account that has already won a couple of silver tourneys and got pretty far in some Gold level tourneys?
Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me, this doesn't feel like a logical action...
Tomorrow's 'Novice' Tournament
Curiousity is my middle name, so I couldn't keep myself from taking a peek at the list of participants who signed up for tomorrow's 'Novice' tournament.
I don't think the screenshot below needs to be explained. you can judge for yourself:
Most people on that list are the same people you see on the lists of silver and gold tourneys, and they are by far not the people who are supposed to be benefiting from this tournament series.
Which new player, with a probably incomplete level 1 deck, would ever be able to beat people like @the01crow, @cranium, @abh12345 or @rentmoney - just to name a few?
Right. That's exactly my point...
My Suggestion
I know these tournaments offer good prize money. And everybody knows that when there is money involved, people tend to behave at their worst.
How about this for an idea:
Let's stay true to ourselves and take a step back. There will be plenty of other tournaments that will pay out a good sum of money. Tournaments in which beginners don't stand a chance.
Are we really willing to take away their chance to grow their accounts? Just because we want to squeeze every penny out of every tournament?
Those of us who live in the so called first world have the luxury to take everything for granted. $10 for a starter pack, and a couple of hundreds to grow our accounts. We don't even have to sacrifice anything to get that high level deck.
But what about all those people living in countries like Venezuela, India and other countries that are not as rich as ours? Don't they deserve a chance? Don't they deserve to have fun and play @steemmonsters with a chance on growing their deck?
From what I've seen today, you don't seem to think so. I truly hope I am wrong about this.
So here's what I'm going to do:
once I finished this post, I'm going to unregister myself from every 'Novice' tournament in the series.
And I genuinly hope that all players who don't really need the money to be able to complete their single level 1 deck, or maybe create a level 2 deck, will follow my example.
I'm not that naive to think I will be able to change your minds. But the least I can do is try.
Because, like it or not, taking away the chances of the less fortunate because we are greedy, isn't going to benefit the game at all.
In order to stay motivated, and to keep playing, people need to have the idea they can make progress somehow.
By taking over every 'Novice' tournament with our extra experience and extra cards, will demotivate people with incomplete or low level decks to join. Why should they? There's no way they can win.
If I only hade a level 1 deck and would look at the people who registered, I wouldn't even bother anymore... and if this would go on and on, I'd probably stop playing. Without the idea of being able to grow your account somehow, even if you don't have cash to spend, it is all pretty useless.
I hope from the bottom of my heart that a lot of you are willing to understand my point of view, and are prepared to let the 'Novice' tournaments to the novices.
Would it really feel like a victory if your experience and amount of cards would keep someone else who could really use the money from getting it?
My decision is final. and I do hope the 'Novice' tournaments will reach the goal they are meant to have.
Aren't we supposed to be a community in which we take care of each other??
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Thanks for your openness, I completely agree.
We announced to not check the decks because they could switch to sockpuppets then, and we hoped for your understanding to be more widespread - I actually know of a few higher league players who abstained.
We briefly talked about it again, and as the endgames were completely dominated by legendary cards we decided to ban those from the upcoming tournament, and probably keep it like that for the rest. This levels the field some more.
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Awesome, @pharesim. We had been talking about how level 1 tourneys without legendaries would level the field more ourselves. I'm curious if this will change the outcome, and some real newbies will actually be able to win some prizes. I'll surely follow the tournaments, without joining.
Thanks for your willingness to try different ways :0)
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There is allot of misinformation in your post but before I address any of it I will say that I rarely read the descriptions of the games I sign up to. I sign up and if I am online / in discord when they play then I get any info needed from the discord chat or sometimes If needed I read the description then.
If you remember on your last rant about SM I suggested a newbie tournament that would only allow accounts 30 day old or younger to enter for the exact reasons you mention in your post, so newbies can play newbies.
Teams in the higher levels that are successful don't always translate well to the lower levels and vice versa. The only legit complaint you have (imo) is that players with higher level cards are likely to have a fuller set of cards to choose from then ones just joining the game or ones who can't / don't want to spend on more cards. To me that isn't a very strong complaint for various reasons such as SM has provided a way to get cards for free.
I also think you are reading too much into the description. To me it reads as a description that is urging the lower levels to join. It doesn't read as a description trying to keep players out. Of course I could be wrong and if the game was truly intended for those who only have level one cards then I have no problem with backing out(I may not be able to make it regardless). Perhaps the tournament host can come clear this up.
Edit : I just went to the announcement post and the host clearly stats that anyone can join the game. There was no restrictions placed on this game aside from using level one cards.
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Hi Mike
I registered for that tournament yesterday but fell asleep with the laptop on my legs :)
Having played and done OKin bernies tournament last week, I was interested to spread the word and take part in the 'cuddles' tournament. As you state, I have a 'high level deck' but it was not enough to match the competitors in the 'gold level' rules last week. So I'm wondering where I stand.
And I'm also wondering what else the hosts could do other than limit the level in the SM interface to try to give accounts a fair chance? Yes we can ask stronger players to abstain, but I feel that is like asking bloggers that attract decent rewards not to post - seems unlikely to happen.
I know your heart is in the right place with this, but I don't think the fault lies with the hosts and feel that they have done what they can to try to promote the game and offer a chance to all, with the tools/settings they have available to them.
Of course, these are still early days and I'm sure their will be other mechanisms brought in to try to level the playing field and separate the players out fairly in the future.
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I never meant to point my finger at the hosts, not at the higher level players. I just hoped to trigger some common sense.
And it seems to have worked, lol. They will be banning the legendaries from the rest of the novice tournaments to level the field a bit.
I don't know whether this will be enough, but I'm very grateful for their willingness to give the little guys at least a chance that is a little more fair
If it would have just been 'novice level', I don't think I would have felt the same. Maybe I wouldn't even have thought about all this, who knows? But the fact that it was announced as a tourney
made it seem totally wrong for all the higher level decks (and even more important: players with loads of experience) to sign up an go for the prize money.
Like I said in my post, I signed up too, but with the intention to donate the prize money to the real novices.
I know how that feels. Although my deck is leveled enough to play gold tournaments, it's never enough to match my competitors there. I'm stuck to silver and bronze, although I keep trying in Gold. The guy I can't get passed - can't remember his name for now - will have a bad day eventually , and maybe I can beat him then and move higher up in the tourneys. :0)
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Understood.
Banning legendary's is something that should have been considered and implemented as a 'novice' tournament, perhaps the hosts missed this (I had no clue) as I believe it's their first attempt at hosting too.
So, if I had stayed awake and played, do you think it would have been unfair considering I have a lob-sided deck and have only entered one tournament before? I'm still undecided :)
Perhaps if i'd played and won 'easily' , then I would have paid the prize forward to some of the novice entrants, but without knowing what tournaments I can compete in and where I stand in the ranks, I'm a bit lost still.
Anyway, I think i've found my level in the season league now, 100 cards and 3800-3900 will have to do!
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I couldn't say, since I don't understand what a lob-sided deck is, lol.
I'm very grateful people are taking it upon them ro organize tourneys, but imho, too many mistakes are being made. That's why a couple of us are going to host a couple of TP-only tournaments, to find out what can go wrong and be prepared. Also, it wil give the TP players who have little experience in joining tourneys, a chance to find out how they work.
No huge prizes for the winners, but just gaining experiencing and discovering the fun of playing tourneys in a safe enviroment.
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I agree completely and hope that the more senior players take into account this point when they play. The goal is to encourage people to play, not "stomp" them and somehow feel good. I don't mind people that are good at the game playing, but please get in the league that fits your skill level... beating up on novices is only going to ruin the experience for many.
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I've only played in one tourney so far (I found using a 3rd party site a bit too clunky for me), but would there be an opportunity to run an invitation only event and target novice and bronze ranked players?
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It might be a way to keep the tourneys clear from the high level decks, but I don't have a clue on how to run an invitation only event and still be able to reach a good number of players
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Yeah, reaching the players would be the hardest part, particularly if they have only come on board for Steem Monsters, they may not have discord, nor be particularly savvy with how to use Steemit or the other blogging apps either. Hopefully when Tournaments are integrated into the game itself it will have that functionality
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Having a lvl6 team, you shoudn't blame too much of others attitude I agree with you that experienced players shoudn't play these "novice" tournaments but you did exactly the same.
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I didn't mean to blame anyone. I just saw something I considered to be an injustice and tried to set it straight. And indeed, I did join. I joined when the tourneys were just announced. Then later, I unregistered. But in the end I registered again, because I saw all those names on the list. At that point, I had the intention to make sure that if I would win anything, I would make sure the prize money would go to the people that needed it.
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There's nothing stopping you from taking an entry fee, rejecting what you consider to be "experienced" players, and organising your own tournament based on:
As a very experienced player myself; there's a danger in the tournaments, especially those that are single elimination - a novice, as you call them; are able to completely blindside an established meta that you think will stomp; as there is not much experimentation or deck variance at the higher levels of play.
In a world where all cards are limited to the same level (say, bronze) - the only limit is the depth of one's cards library, and an entire bronze level collection costs less than what a bottle of booze costs in my country.
There's plenty of opportunity out there. :)
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I'm working on it. Not on the entry fee part, but on a tournament with a strict selection :0)
Unfortunately not all people live in countries where the circumstances are the same. Some people simply can't afford to spend that money on a game.
And I realize that it doesn't make the game any easier when you're used to playing monsters with all kinds of abilities and then suddenly all those abilities are gone. Been there, done that, lol.
I even set up a separate level 2 account, so I don't forget how to play without double blasts and stuff :0)
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Interesting @simplymike and a well written post. I will be on the Sidelines Watching................
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I wish I could stand there with you, watching, lol...
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Thanks for taking the time to write this post. I must agree that it was frustrating to me in the other tournaments and thats kind of the reason why I didnt sign up again the past week. I hope people will try to keep it fair after reading this :)
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You should sign up, @anouk.nox.
I'm not putting my hopes up, but at least give it a shot, you never know.
Ik heb mijn bedenkigen bij de hele zaak, maar ik heb voorlopig even genoeg keet geschopt. Ik hou er niet van dat mensen mijn woorden verdraaien zodat ze ze tegen me kunnen gebruiken. En dat ze het gewoon niet wíllen zien. Ik word er zo ontzettend moe en gedemotiveerd van...
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I don't know.. For now I'm happy to finally have a day finishing my quests and quite smooth today..
Ik snap het teveel schoppen werkt ook averechts vaak. Ik ga morgen even kijken of ik een beetje op schema loop en wellicht eens een toernooitje doen. Me voorgenomen eerst weer eens echt tijd in een post te steken :) Fijne avond/nacht :)
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Jij ook.
Waarschijnlijk doen we morgen, ten laatste overmorgen een paar kleine test-toerrnooitjes binnen TP. Om er gewend aan te raken, zonder mensen van buitenaf. Ook zonder waanzinnige prijzen natuurlijk ((we hebben ondertussen toch al 20 steem aan prijzengeld verzameld), maar gewoon voor de lol.
Zo kan iedereen al eens ondervinden hoe het in zijn werk gaat, terwijl ik, bashadow and crypt kunnen leren hoe je zo'n toernooi op een deftige manier kan organiseren. We proberen te leren uit alle fouten die andere hosts maken (en dat zijn er wel wat, lol).
Ik hou je op de hoogte :0)
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Ok ik ga t proberen te volgen tussendoor. Al denk ik dat ik er op novice level zo uit lig haha.
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There should be a way to take your current rank into consideration for the tourneys.
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What do you mean by current rank ?
Our league rank .....
If so that won't work as not everyone will be league players once tournaments are around.
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The reason why I don't really care about the tourney because all I see are always the same names from high rank players around..no matter the tourney is for novice or champion..
I Still have a curious about the XP.. because even if it's for novice and your high level cards will be handicapped.. but the XP is higher 😂😂😂
WHY THEY THINK THAT THEY'RE NOVICE WHEN THEY ALWAYS END UP ON CHAMPION TIER EVERY SEASON?
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Thank you so much for participating the Partiko Delegation Plan Round 1! We really appreciate your support! As part of the delegation benefits, we just gave you a 3.00% upvote! Together, let’s change the world!
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@simplymike, Unfortunate to hear that and let's hope that Team will bring some changes and your points are really effective in my opinion. Stay blessed. 🙂
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They can do better with the matching ...thingy.
Get novice accounts to play against novice accounts. I play Clash of lords 2, and people are matched based on their hero levels, not necessarily XP, because there are some new players who spend a lot of money on OP heroes early in the game.
I should finally get my cards today...
BTW, it's where i got my name on here
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It's indeed not because you have the cards that you have the experience. I completely agree
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I have participate in a tournament yet and probably also wont after reading this post.
But I also got a strange thing on SM yesterday. Suddenly it was that I couldn't loose any battles anymore. Did win 45 out of 50 or something like that. I was fighting my way into the gold league but suddenly I did enter the Diamond Leagues. The strange things was that most opponents did have much weaker decks than me, still had a rating around 2000 and were always drawn against me.
When I played my first battle in the Diamond league, I got my ass kicked :)
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You should try the tourneys. They've decided to level the field a bit in the novice tourneys. And overall, tourneys are mostly fun (i prefer the smaller ones, though, the ones that don't have 100 people in it)
What you are experiencing in the gold league is a general thing. I'm experiencing the same, even in diamond 1. I don't know what the reason is, but my best guess would be that people played their account to the highest level possible, and then, with still 9 days of the season left, they bought a new starter deck, sent the high level cards to the new account and the low level cards to the old account. Now, they are playing the low level cards in the old account with a high rating, waiting for the time out on the cards to expire, so they can bring the new starter decks with the high level cards in it up to diamond in the last two days of the season. That way, they can get double rewards
I'm not entirely sure this is the case but since it started when there were 9 days left in the season and a time out on a card takes 7 days, ... it's the only logical explanation...
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I'm not such a high-deck player, but I regularly reached Gold leagues so far.
Yesterday I weighted if I should join the novice tourney or not until the final minute. The prize STEEM would have served me well for upgrading my deck, if I got any of them. But for a novice with no money, it would be pure gold I guess (not to mention the boost in confidence and growing addiction). In the end I decided not to join. I can't judge those who joined even if the tourney wasn't meant for them. It's that addictive.
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Very toughtful of you, both on the decision not to join as on the no-judging part.
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Agreed. The level cap does help a lot, but since legendaries are almost absent in a newbie's set, that and the lack of experience do make it almost impossible to have a chance playing against veterans. Let's hope some of the players follow your good example, there's room for fun for everyone, with a little of fair play and common sense!
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Meanwhile, they've decided to ban the legendary cards from the next novice tournaments, so that will level the field a bit more, or so I hope. Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to wipe out experience...
The good thing is that when you're used to playing a high level deck and monsters with all different kinds of abilities, it's not easy to switch back to a level 1 deck and having to play without most of the abilities. Believe me, I've been there. So people who are used to playing level 1 or 2 don't have to adapt.
I'm curious to see what will happen during the next tourneys
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My max card is a level 6, most of them are at level 4, so still haven't experienced a full skills battle. Now trying to improve summoners!
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Great post @simplymike and interesting comments.
I'm not enjoying Steem Monsters much anymore, to be honest, the use of bots makes it too frustrating.
I haven't tried any tournaments yet but looked at the one you talk about here as they said it was for novices. However, I couldn't see the point in signing up once I saw who I'd be playing against.
I'm still playing with Level 1 and 2 summoners and not all the legendaries. I had hoped that I could stay at the lower levels and enjoy myself but this is no longer the case.
I've heard that something is being done to counteract the bots. I just hope it doesn't make it harder again for those of us playing in the lower leagues.
I suppose it will take a long time to iron out all the bugs, although from what I understand from what people have said about other games, there's always something that needs to be sorted.
Maybe things will improve when tournaments are automated?
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Summoners in novice tournaments are all limited to lvl1. We also just took out legendary from the following ones. I'd suggest you give it a try at the next one tomorrow!
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I have a level 1 and a level 2 deck too, @gillianpearce, but I never have the feeling I'm playing against bots, to be honest. Once my level 1 goes from bronze to silver league, it is obvious more of my opponents play a higher level, and at one point, a deck has reached its max...
Maybe we just play at different times of the day.
It is more the gold league that annoys me a little these last couple of days. It's more rule than exception that you get matched with complete level 1 decks when playing in Gold 2 and 1. Earlier today, I had 15 in a row. I do agree it mmakes it easy to complete the DQ's, but there's no fun in it.
I don't know what caused it, but my best guess is that people switched cards. It started when there were 9 days left on the tourney. I think a lot of people played their deck as high as possible, and then sent the cards to a new starter account, just in time to have couple of days left to bring the other account up as high as possible.
Maybe, maybe not, idk.
I do think you should grab your best deck (or maybe I should say: the most complete deck) and give those tourneys a shot. Get some action, instead of only doing the DQs. It gets brain-numbing after a while. At least in a tournament, you need to make your brain work: which splinter would be best? Which cards to choose?
I've lost quite a couple of tourneys in the first round, so you've got to be prepared for losing at the first game. Because it's not all up to you. You need a little luck with your opponent, with the manna, with the battle rule...
And losing sucks, but it's completely different from losing during a DQ. And the fact that there is interaction with the other players makes it fun too. Even when you lose. I mean, last week I was in the same tournament as... I'm pretty sure it was @bashadow. He got kicked out at one point, and I kept playing. And he stayed around in the tournament chat, cheering, motivating me.
To me, the difference between playing the normal leagues and playing tourneys is like the difference between playing a game on one of those classic football games on a table in a pub, and being out on a real football field.
I'll try to catch you on Discord tomorrow, I'm interested in those bot games, and in the decks you are playing :0)
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That's weird that you don't seem to be coming up against the bots @simplymike although it does seem to make a difference what time of day I'm playing.
I don't have a lot of choice when I play. I just try and play a few games in between other stuff. Yesterday, every time I tried, apart from one, I was up against higher level bots. I counted at one point and 5 games in 20 were bots 😱
I'm not sure why tournaments don't appeal much. Probably because it looks complicated and it's another thing to try and get my head around.
i will give it a go at some point though. I won't know unless I try. 😊
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You and I started playing at the same time. The only difference is I decided to level my cards. Which brings me to my point of people with larger level summoners don't have an advantage over those with lower level summoners if the game is played at the novice level. I would argue the opposite is true as the person who played at the novice level the most will have the advantage and that is likely to be someone that only has novice level cards.
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Okay, @rentmoney. I finally get what you mean. As I just replied to a comment above: it's not because you have the cards, that you can play them.
There will always be good players, and less good players, just like in other games, like chess for example.
I'm curious to see what is going to happen now they have banned the legendary cards :0)
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I also think that people who level their cards will have a better selection even if they are downgraded to level 1s.
In fact in my alt account where I don't have epics I miss those more than the legendaries. I bet people playing in the top leagues who signed up for the novice tournament all played their epics.
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I bet they do to. They would be silly not to play their strongest cards. Those with money or higher level decks having more variety to pick from is a valid point but I think my point is also very valid and holds true. Its the ones who are more custom to playing at level one that will have the advantage of playing in a level 1 tournament.
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Totally agree. I was thinking about setting up a novice tournament, but not to sure after this.
Maybe I will set one up with only a few not to expencive cards as prizes.
Good you signed up to try to win and give back.
If we want this to be a huge success we need to take care of the new players coming in
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Indeed, we don't want to scare new players off and drive them away. But if you want to prevent things like this, you have no other choice than to host a small tournament, for which you check dach player's deck manually. And even then you can never be sure whether it is a real newcomer, or an experienced player with an low level alt account...
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You've got some great observations there :)
Thanks for taking the time to make a post expressing your concerns.
My advice (as if you asked for it): Focus on the daily quests. They pay out more (and more reliably) than tourneys. Tourneys are new; there's not even an interface yet.
If you hit the dailies hard and sell the cards you never play with to power up the ones you do, it doesn't take long to get leveled up.
I would also disregard the word "novice." The League of the tournament is the only thing that matters. You can assume that people will use the max cards they are allowed within a League. I have a bunch of max cards, but I don't stand a chance in a Diamond tourney. Sometimes I even struggle with gold.
I think the money tournaments are going to tough competition at all levels.
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Finally a refreshing comment. Thanks for that, @chrisroberts. I have the feeling you get what I was trying to say.
Daily quests are indeed more rewarding, but with both the market prices and the demand for the reward card being this low, it takes a while before you get enough together to buy the legendaries.
Competition is tougher, but it gives the game that little extra.
And I have the same experience as you: one of my decks is maxed for the gold level tourneys (level 6 summoner, level 8 commons, level 7 rares etc.), still I'm chanceless in the gold tournaments. Lol. I do have the cards, but I'm not good enough yet when it comes to plzying the game. Tactics have never been my strongest point :0)
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If you're around in exactly one hour from the time I'm making this comment... Carrie, me and Steem Monsters are hosting a BRONZE level freeroll with a 45 SBD prize pool. :D
https://steemit.com/steemmonsters/@carrieallen/monster-pop-up-bronze-45-sbd-prize-pool
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I understand your generosity, but with some points I disagree. Players with a high level of cards will have a difficult time reorganizing to a game in the bronze league, and I generally keep quiet about the novice league. I participate in all tournaments, except for a small 5 hour break for sleep, first of all, in order to gain experience. In many respects I have infringed myself in order to assemble my deck, and now I continue to infringe in order to assemble a competitive deck for the gold and diamond league. The question is, why should I ignore the opportunity to get experience of battles in tournaments + a chance to earn a little, in order to improve my deck?
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You do as you please, of course, but IMHO, you're doing really good in bronze and silver, and I thought also in gold, but maybe I'm mistaking. Players with starter decks/incomplete level 1 decks only have one option: the novice tourneys.
I think I can assume that, just like me, you've been able to build a big part of your deck through the free booster packs from the earlier seasons? People don't have that opportunity now. Every card they want to add go their deck needs to be paid for. And a lot of people on here can't spare the money to do that, so those novice tourneys are their only chance.
But that's just my point of view.
And you do have a point about the fact that it isn't easy to play at a lower level.than you are used to. Lol. Happens to me regularly
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Hi, @simplymike!
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