This is the full transcript from Tuesday night's first presidential debate between Republican President Donald Trump and Democrat Joe Biden. The debate was moderated by Fox News host Chris Wallace. Minutes and seconds are marked at various points for reference

00:00 CHRIS WALLACE

The first of the 2020 presidential debates between President Donald J. Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden. This debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. The Commission has designed the format: six, roughly 15 minute segments, with two minute answers and each candidate to the first question. Then open discussion for the rest of each segment. Both campaigns have agreed to these rules. For the record, I decided the topics, and the questions in each topic. I can assure you, none of the questions has been shared with the commission, or the two candidates. This debate is being conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Cleveland Clinic, which is doing as a health security adviser to the commission for all four debates. As a precaution both campaigns have agreed that candidates will not shake hands at the beginning of tonight's debate. The audience here in the hall has pledged to remain silent: no cheers, no boo’s, or other interruptions so we, and more importantly you, can focus on what the candidates have to say. No noise, except right now, as we welcome the Republican nominee, President Trump, and the Democratic nominee, Vice President Biden.

01:40 WALLACE

Gentlemen, a lot of people have been waiting for this night, so let's get going. Our first subject is the Supreme Court. President Trump you nominated Amy Coney Barrett over the weekend to succeed the late, Ruth Bader Ginsburg on the court. You say the Constitution is clear about your obligation and the Senate's to consider a nominee the court, Vice President Biden, you say that this is an effort by the president and Republicans to jam through and an appointment and what you call an ‘abuse of power.’ My first question to both of you tonight: Why are you right in the argument you make, and your opponent wrong and where do you think a Justice Barrett would take the court. President Trump, in this first segment you go first. Two minutes.

2:29 PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP

Thank you very much, Chris, I will tell you very simply. We won the election, elections have consequences. We have the Senate, we have the White House, and we have a phenomenal nominee, respected by all top, top academic -- good in every way, good in every way. In fact, some of her biggest endorsers are very liberal people from Notre Dame and other places so I think she's going to be fantastic. We have plenty of time. Even if we did it after the election itself, I have a lot of time after the election, as you know. So I think that she will be outstanding, she's going to be as good as anybody that has served on that court. We really feel that -- we have a professor at Notre Dame, highly respected by all, says she's the single greatest student he's ever had. He's been a professor for a long time in a great school. And we just, we won the election, and therefore we have the right to choose her and very few people knowingly would say otherwise -- and by the way the Democrats, they wouldn't even think about that, doing it. If they had -- the only difference is they'd try and do it faster. There's no way they would give it up. They had Merrick Garland, but the problem is they didn't have the elections so they were stopped, and probably that would happen in reversal so definitely would happen reverse. So we won the election and we have the right to do it.

3:50 WALLACE

President Trump, Thank you. Same question to your Vice President Biden you have two minutes.

Television screens airing the first presidential debate are seen at Walters Sports Bar in Washinton.
3:56 JOE BIDEN

First of all, thank you for doing this and looking forward to this, Mr. President. I -- the American people have a right to have a say to who the Supreme Court nominee is, and that say occurs when they vote for United States senators and when they vote for the President of the United States. They're not going to get that chance now because we're in the middle of an election already -- the election has already started. Tens of thousands of people have already voted. And so the thing that should happen is we should wait, we should wait and see what the outcome of this election is, because that's the only way the American people get to express their view, is by who they elect as president who they elect as vice president. Now, what's at stake here is, the President’s made it clear, he wants to get rid of the Affordable Care Act. He's been running on that. He ran on that and he’s been governing on that. He's in the Supreme Court right now trying to get rid of the Affordable Care Act, which will strip 20 million people from having insurance, health insurance, now, if they -- if it goes into court and, and the justice and I have nothing -- I'm not opposed to the justice, she seems like a very fine person. But she's written before she went to the bench, which is her right, that she thinks that the Affordable Care Act is not constitutional. The other thing is on the court -- if it’s struck down, what happens? Women's rights are fundamentally changed. Once again, a woman could be held -- make more money because she has a pre-existing condition of pregnancy. We're able to, they're able to charge women more for the same exact procedure a man gets, and that ended when we, in fact, passed the Affordable Care Act. And there's 100 million people who have pre-existing conditions, and they'll be taken away as well. Those pre-existing conditions, insurance companies are going to love this. And so it's just not appropriate to do this before this election. If he wins the election and the senate is Democrat or Republican, then he goes forward; if not, we should wait until February.

6:01 TRUMP

There aren’t 100 million people with pre-existing conditions. As far as the say is concerned, people already had their say. They -- okay, Justice Ginsburg said -- very powerfully, very strongly -- at some point, 10 years ago or so, she said a president and the Senate is elected for a period of time, but a president's elected for four years. We’re not elected for three years -- I'm not elected for three years. So we have the Senate, we have a president --

BIDEN

Who’s elected at the next election.

TRUMP

-- During that period of time, we have an opening. I'm not elected for three years; I'm elected for four years. --

BIDEN

The election’s already started.

06:38 TRUMP

-- Joe. The hundred million people is totally wrong. I don't know where you got that number. The bigger problem that you have is that you're going to extinguish 180 million people with their private health care --

BIDEN

That’s simply not true.

TRUMP

Well, you said

WALLACE

Gentleman, we're now into open discussion, open discussion. Yes, I agree. Vice President.

7:00 BIDEN

Number one. He knows that -- what I proposed. What I proposed is that we expand Obamacare, and we increase it, we do not wipe any -- and one of the big debates we had with 23 of my colleagues trying to win the nomination that I won, were saying that Biden wanted to allow people have private insurance still, they can they do, they will under my proposal.

7:25 TRUMP

Not what you said. That is not what you said. Your party wants to go Socialist. I am going to dominate you, Joe, you know that.

7:36 BIDEN

I am the Democratic Party right now. The platform of the Democratic Party is what, I, in fact, approved of. What I approved of. Now here's the deal. The deal is that this is going to wipe out pre-existing condition -- by the way, the 20, the 200 million, the 200,000 people that have died on his watch. How many of those have survived? Over 7 million people have contracted COVID. What does it mean for them going forward if you strike down the Affordable Care Act?

8:05 TRUMP

Joe, you had 308,000 military people die because you couldn't provide them proper health care in the military, so don't tell me about this

BIDEN

I’m happy to talk about this

8:15 TRUMP

And if you were here, it wouldn’t be 200, it would be 2 million people, because you were very late on the draw. You didn’t want me to ban China, which was heavily infected. You didn’t want me to ban

8:24 WALLACE

All right we're gonna jump in right now. Mr. President. Mr. President, there’s a moderator. We are going to talk about COVID in the next segment, but go ahead.

8:36 BIDEN

Well, let me finish. The point is that the President also is opposed to Roe v Wade. That's on the ballot as well, in the court in the court. And so that's also at stake, right now.

8:52 TRUMP

You don’t know that’s on the ballot. Why is it on the ballot, Why is it on the ballot. It's not on the ballot

BIDEN

It’s on the ballot in the court

TRUMP

I don’t think so. There's nothing happening there. You don’t know her view on Roe v Wade. All right.

BIDEN

I don’t know --

9:06 WALLACE

All right, all right, let's talk here. We got a lot to unpack here, gentlemen, and we’ve got a lot of time. On health care. And with that, we'll come back to Roe v Wade. All right, Mr President, the Supreme Court will hear a case, a week after the election, in which the Trump administration, along with 18 state attorneys general are seeking to overturn Obamacare, to end Obamacare. You have sent the last --

TRUMP

Because I want to give good healthcare. Good healthcare.

WALLACE

If I may ask that question, sir. Over the last four years you have promised to repeal and replace Obamacare but you have never in these four years, come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan, to replace Obamacare.

09:51 TRUMP

Yes I have. Of course I have. I'll get rid of the individual mandate which was added. That is absolutely a big thing, that was the worst part of Obamacare. The worst part of Obamacare. Well, I’ll ask Joe. The individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of Obamacare. I got rid of it.

10:12 WALLACE

I am the moderator in this debate. And I would like you to let me ask my question and then you can answer.

10:18

Go ahead.

WALLACE

You, in the course of these four years, have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace Obamacare, and just this last Thursday, you signed a largely symbolic executive order to protect people with pre-existing conditions, five days before this debate. So my question sir is, what is the Trump healthcare plan.

TRUMP

Well, first of all, I guess I'm debating you not him, but that's okay, I’m not surprised. Let me just tell you something. That has nothing symbolic. I'm cutting drug prices, I'm going with favored nations which no president has encouraged to do because you're going against big pharma. Drug prices will be coming down, 80 or 90%. You could have done it during your 47 year period in government but you didn't do it, nobody's done it. So we're cutting health care, all of the things that we've done -- insulin. I‘ll give an example: insulin. It's going to, it was destroying families -- destroyed people, the cost -- ‘I'm getting it for so cheap; it's like water.’ You want to know the truth, so cheap. Take a look at all of the drugs that --- what we're doing, prescription drug prices, we're going to allow our governors now to go to other countries to buy drugs because when they make just a tiny fraction -- this is big stuff.

This combination of pictures created on September 29, 2020 shows Democratic Presidential candidate Joe Biden and President Donald Trump speaking during the first presidential debate at the Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio on September 29, 2020.
11:31 WALLACE

Mr. President, you'll be happy. I'm about to pick up on one of your points to ask the Vice President, which is he points out that you would like to add a public option to Obamacare, and the argument that he makes and other Republicans make, is that that is going to end private insurance.

BIDEN

It is not.

WALLACE

I am asking the question. That it will, it will end private insurance and create a government takeover of health care.

11:37 BIDEN

It does not. It's only for those people who are so poor they qualify for Medicaid, they can get that free. In most states, except governors who want to deny people are poor, Medicaid. Anyone who qualifies for Medicare -- excuse me, Medicaid -- would automatically be enrolled in the public option. The vast majority of the American people would still not be in that option. Number one --

12:22 TRUMP

So you agree with Bernie Sanders, who’s left on the manifesto we call it, that gives you socialized medicine

12:31 BIDEN

Look. The fact of the matter is, I beat Bernie Sanders --

12:42 TRUMP

You got very lucky.

12:45 BIDEN

I got very lucky, I’m going to get very lucky tonight as well. And tonight I'm going to -- here's the deal, here’s the deal. The fact is that everything he’s saying so far it's simply a lie. I'm not here to call out his lies; everybody knows he's a liar. I want to make sure -- I want to make the President --

WALLACE

Can you let him finish sir.

BIDEN

He doesn't know how to do that.

BIDEN

There is no manifesto --

13:25 TRUMP

You just lost the left. You just lost the left. You agreed with Bernie Sanders on a plan.

13:31 BIDEN

Folks, do we have any idea what this clown is doing?

13:36 BIDEN

Let me tell you what. He is not for any help for people needing health care because he in fact already cost 10 million people their health care that they had from their employers, because of his recession, number one. Number two, there are 20 million people getting health care through Obamacare now he wants to take it away. He won't ever look in your eye and say that's what he wants to do. Take it away,

TRUMP

No, I want to give them better health care at a much much lower price because he has no, he doesn't know how to read fixed he has never already played it to an extent he has now.

14:16 WALLACE

I know you’ll realize you're both speaking at the same time. Let the President's -- go ahead sir.

14:22 TRUMP

Obamacare is no good. We made it better and I had a choice to make very early on. We took away the individual mandate. We guaranteed pre existing conditions but took away the individual mandate. Listen, this is the way it is. And that destroyed, that they shouldn't even call it Obamacare. But I had a choice to make. Do I let my people run it really well, or badly. If I run it badly they'll probably blame him, but they'll blame me, but more importantly I want to help people. Okay, I said you got to run it so well. That's me, and I just had a meeting with them; they said, ‘The problem is, no matter how well you run Obamacare, it's a disaster. It's too expensive, premiums are too high, that it doesn't work,’ I suppose, people -- yes we do want to get rid of it. I want to get rid of something.

15:07 WALLACE

I have to give you roughly equal time, please let the vice president talk.

15:12 BIDEN

He has no plan for healthcare. He sends out wishful thinking, he has executive orders that have no power, he hasn't lowered drug costs for anybody, he’s been promising a health care plan since he got elected. He has none. Like almost everything else he talks about, he does not have a plan. He doesn't have a plan. And the fact is, this man doesn't know what he's talking about.

WALLACE

One final question for you, Mr. Vice President, if Senate Republicans -- we were originally talking about the Supreme Court here -- if Senate Republicans, go ahead and confirm justice Barrett, there has been talk about ending the filibuster, or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices there. You call this a distraction by the president, but in fact it wasn't brought up by the President, it was brought up by some of your Democratic colleagues in Congress. So my question to you as you have refused in the past to talk about it: Are you willing to tell the American people tonight, whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court.

16:16 BIDEN

Whatever position I take on that, that'll become the issue -- the issue is, the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. We're in voting now, vote and let your senators know how strongly you feel. Vote now, in fact let people know it is your senators. I'm not going to answer the question.

TRUMP

Why won’t you answer the question -- radical left -- well, listen.

BIDEN

Would you shut up, man.

TRUMP

Who is on your list?

16:49 WALLACE

We have ended this segment. We're going to move on to the second segment.

16:52 BIDEN

That was a really productive segment, wasn’t it.

16:57 BIDEN

Keep yapping, man.

TRUMP

The people understand, Joe. In 47 years, you've done nothing then just.

WALLACE

Alright. The second subject is a covid-19, which is an awfully serious subject, so let's try to be -- A million cases of coronavirus in the United States and more than 200,000 people have died. Even after we produce a vaccine, experts say that it could be months or even years before we come back toward anything approaching normal. My question for both of you is based on what you have said and done so far and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the American people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward. In this case, the question goes to you first. Sir, two minutes uninterrupted.

17:54 BIDEN

Look, 200,000 dead. You said over 7 million infected in the United States. We in fact have 5% or 4% of the world's population, 20% of the deaths. 40,000 people a day are contracting COVID. In addition to that, about between 750 and 1000 people, they're dying. When he was presented with that number he said ‘it is what it is’ -- what it is what it is -- because you are who you are. That's why it is. The president has no plan. He hasn't laid out anything. He knew all the way back in February how serious this crisis was. He knew it was a deadly disease. What did he do? He's on tape as acknowledging he knew. He said he didn't tell us or give people a warning of it, because he didn't want to panic the American people. You don't panic, he panicked. In addition to that, what did he do? He went in and he, we were insisting that the Chinese, the people we had on the ground in China should be able to go to watch, and determine for themselves, how dangerous this was. He did not even ask Xi to do that. He told us what a great job Xi was doing. He said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us. What did he do then? He then he waited and waited and waited. He still doesn't have a plan. I laid out or I could just watch, exactly what we should be doing. And I laid out again in July, what we should be doing. We should be providing all the protective gear plus, we should be providing the money the House has passed in order to be able to go out and get people to help they need to keep their businesses, open, open schools that cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap, get people the help they need to keep their businesses, open, open schools that cost a lot of money. You should get out of your bunker and get out of the car, and in your golf course the golf course and going oval office

19:54 TRUMP

The country would have been left wide open, Millions of people would have died, not 200,000. And one person is too much -- it's China's fault, it should have never happened. They stopped it from going in, but it was China's fault, by the way when you talk about numbers you know how many people died in Japan. How many people died in Russia. How many people died in India. They don’t exactly give you a straight count, just so you understand. But if you look at what we've done. I closed it and you said he's xenophobic, he's a racist and xenophobic because you didn't close in our country. You didn't think we should have closed our country because you thought it was too -- it was terrible. You wouldn't have closed it for another two months. By my doing it early -- in fact Dr. Fauci said President Trump saved thousands of lives. Many of your Democrat governors said President Trump did a phenomenal job. We worked with the governors. Oh, really, go take a look. The governor said I did a phenomenal job, most of them said that they attract people that would not be necessarily on my side, said that President Trump's a phenomenal job. We did. We got the gowns, we got the masks, we made the ventilators -- you wouldn't have made ventilators -- and now we're weeks away from a vaccine. We're doing therapeutics already, fewer people are dying when they get sick, far fewer people are dying. We've done a great job. The only thing I haven't done a good job, and that's because of the fake news, no matter what you say to them, they give you a bad press on, it's just fake news. They give you good press, they give me bad press, because that's the way it is, unfortunately. I don't care. I've gotten used to it. But I'll tell you, Joe, you could never have done the job that we did, you don't have it in your blood. You could have never done that yet.

21:30 BIDEN

I know how to do the job. I know how to get the job done.

TRUMP

Well you didn't do very well in swine flu. H1N1. A disaster.

21:38 BIDEN

14,000 people died, not 200,000. There was no economic recession. We didn't shut down the economy. This is his economy, it's been shut down. The reason it’s shut down is because -- look you folks at home. How many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died at COVID. How many of you are in a situation where you lost your mom or dad and you couldn't even speak to the nurse holding the phone up so you could in fact say goodbye. By the way, his own CDC director says, we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now and the end of the year, and he held up he said, if we just wear a mask we can save half those numbers -- just just a mask. And by the way, in terms of the, the whole notion of a vaccine. We prefer a a vaccine, but I don't trust him at all, and neither do you, I know you don't. What we trust is a scientist.

TRUMP

You don't trust Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer?

22:44 WALLACE

And let me, let me move on to questions about the future, because you both have touched on one of the -- two of the questions I'm going to ask. Focusing on the future first, President Trump, you have repeatedly either contradicted or been at odds with some of your government’s top scientists. The week before last, the head of the Centers for Disease Control, Dr. Redfield, said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. You said that he was confused and mistaken. Those are your two words. But Dr. Slaoui, the head of your operation warp speed, has said exactly the same thing. Are they both wrong?

23:24 TRUMP

Well I've spoken to the companies, and we can have it a lot sooner. It's a very political thing because people like this would rather make it political and save less. It is a very political thing I've spoken to Pfizer, I've spoken to all of the people that you have to speak to -- we have great -- Moderna, Johnson and Johnson, and others. They can go faster than that by lot. It can become very political, because the left or I don't know --

WALLACE

Head of your operation warp speed, Dr. Slaoui --

TRUMP

I disagree with him. No, I disagree with both of them. And he didn't say that. He said it could be there but it could also be -- I had him in my office two days ago.

23:58 WALLACE

He talked about the summer, sir, before -- it's generally available -- .

TRUMP

He said it’s a possibility that we'll have the answer before November 1. It could also be after that. We're gonna deliver it right away. We have the military all set up -- logistically, they're all set up. We have our military that delivers soldiers, and they could do 200,000 a day. They're going to be --

BIDEN

This is the same man who told you--

TRUMP

It's all set up.

BIDEN

He said this would be gone away. Whether it'd be gone -- miraculously, like a miracle. By the way, maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm and that would take care of it.

24:32 TRUMP

That was said sarcastically, you know that. That was said sarcastically.

BIDEN

And so here's the deal. This man is talking about a vaccine. Every serious, every serious company is talking about, maybe having the vaccine done by the end of the year, but the distribution of that vaccine will not occur until sometime beginning or the middle of next year to get it out. If we get the vaccine. And pray to god we will. Pray god we will.

24:56 WALLACE

Mr. Vice President, I want to pick up one of the -- pick up on this question though. You say the public can trust the scientists, but they can't trust President Trump. In fact, you said that again tonight. Your running mate, Senator Harris, goes further, saying that public health experts “will be muzzled, will be suppressed. Given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate Senator Harris contributing to that fear?

25:26 BIDEN

No more than the question you just asked. You pointed it out. He puts pressure and disagrees with his own scientists. Well, no, no, you can trust the scientists. She didn’t say that.

WALLACE

She said, the public experts, quote, “will be muzzled, will be suppressed.”

TRUMP

She did say that.

BIDEN

Well, that's what he's going to try to do, but there's millions of scientists -- there's thousands of scientists out there, like here at this great hospital, that don't work for him. Their job doesn't depend on him. That's not -- they’re the people, and by the way --

TRUMP

I spoke to the scientists that are in charge. They will have the vaccine very soon.

BIDEN

Do you believe for a moment what he's telling you, in light of all the lies he’s told you about the whole issue of COVID. He still hasn't even acknowledged that he knew this was happening, knew how dangerous it was going to be back in February, and he didn't even tell you. He's on record saying that he panicked, or he just looked at the stock market -- one of the two -- because guess what: a lot of people died, and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter.

26:35 TRUMP

Did you use the word smart? So you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State. You graduated, either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me, don't ever use that word.

BIDEN

Oh, give me a break.

TRUMP

Because you know what, there's nothing smart about you, Joe. 47 years, you've done nothing.

BIDEN

Well, let's have this debate. You would’ve had --

TRUMP

Let me just tell you something. If you would have had the charge of what I was put through -- I had to close the greatest economy in the history of our country. And by the way, now it's being built again --

WALLACE

We’ll talk about the economy in the next segment, sir.

TRUMP

It's going up fast --

WALLACE

Okay. When it comes to how the virus has been handled, so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches, and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward, by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. I want to quickly go through several of those reopenings, Vice President Biden, you have been much more reluctant than President Trump about reopening the economy and school. Why, sir?

BIDEN

Because he doesn’t have a plan. If I were running, I’d know what the plan is. You've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen with a PPE, as well as with sanitation they need. You have to provide --

TRUMP

Tell that to Nancy Pelosi.

27:51 BIDEN

Will he just shush for a minute.

TRUMP

Tell it to Nancy Pelosi. And Schumer.

27:59 BIDEN

Nancy Pelosi and Schumer -- they have a plan. He won't even meet with them. The Republicans won't meet with them in the Senate. But he sits in his golf course -- I mean, literally, think about it --

TRUMP

You probably play more than I do, Joe.

WALLACE

What about this question of reopenings, and the fact that --

TRUMP

Well, he wants to shut down this country. And I want to keep it open. And we did great --

BIDEN

You need to shut it down --

28:22 TRUMP

Wait a minute. Let me shut you down for a second, Joe. Just for one second.

28:26 TRUMP

We want to -- he wants to shut down the country. We just went through it. We had to because we didn't know anything about the disease. Now, we’ve found that elderly people with heart problems and diabetes and different problems are very, very vulnerable. We learned a lot -- young children aren't, even younger people aren't. We've learned a lot. But he wants to shut it down. More people will be hurt by continuing -- if you look at Pennsylvania, if you look at certain states that have been shut down -- they have Democrat governors all. One of the reasons they’re shut down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election. This is political.

WALLACE

I wonder what's --

TRUMP

Those states, those states are not doing well that are shut down.

WALLACE

Gentlemen, we’re going to go on to another subject. You have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer, and in fact recently you have cited the, the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. Are you questioning the effectiveness of masks?

TRUMP

No, you have to understand -- if you look, I mean, I have a mask right here. I put the mask on it, you know what I think I need it. As an example, everybody's had a test, and you've had social distancing and all of the things that you have to, but I wear a mask, when needed -- when needed, I wear masks. I don't -- I don’t wear masks like him. Every time you see him, he's got a mask. He could be speaking 200 feet away from me, and he shows up with the biggest mask I've ever seen.

29:51 WALLACE

Vice President Biden, go ahead, sir.

BIDEN

Look, the way to open businesses is give them the wherewithal to be able to open. We provided money --

WALLACE

I was asking, sir, about masks.

BIDEN

Oh. Masks -- masks make a big difference. His own head of the CDC said if we just wore masks between now -- if everybody wore masks and social distancing between now and January, we'd probably save up to 100,000 lives. It matters,

TRUMP

And they've also said the opposite. They've also said the --

BIDEN

No serious person has said the opposite --

TRUMP

What about Dr. Fauci? Dr. Fauci said the opposite.

BIDEN

He did not say the opposite.

30:27 TRUMP

He said very strongly: Masks are not good. Then he changed his mind. He's admitted -- I’m ok with masks.

WALLACE

I want to talk about one last subject, because your different approaches have even affected the way that you have campaigned. President Trump, you're holding the large rallies, with crowds packed together thousands of people.

30:44 TRUMP

Outside.

WALLACE

Outside. Yes, sir. Great. Vice President Biden, you are holding much smaller events with --

TRUMP

Cause nobody will show up.

WALLACE.

People with --

TRUMP

Nobody shows up to his rallies.

WALLACE

In any case, why you’re holding the big rallies, why you're not. You goes first, sir.

31:00 TRUMP

Because people want to hear what I have to say, I mean, 25, 35,000 people show up at airports. We use airports.

WALLACE

Are you not worried about the disease, though, sir.

31:13 TRUMP

Well, so far we have had no problem whatsoever. It's outside -- that's a big difference according to the experts. And we do them outside, we have tremendous crowds, as you see. I mean every -- and literally on 24 hours notice -- and Joe does the circles and has three people some place.

BIDEN

By the way, did you see, one of the last reboot rallies he had -- a reporter came up to him to ask him a question, he said, ‘No no no. Stand back. Put on your mask, put on a mask. Have you been tested? I'm way, way far away from those other people.’ That's what he said. I can't, I'm gonna be okay. He not worried about you. He's not worried about the people out there --

TRUMP

We had no negative, no negative effect. We've had no negative effect, and we've had, 35 40,000, people at some of these rallies.

WALLACE

Just finish off because I want to move on to our next --

BIDEN

Yes, I would. He's been totally irresponsible the way in which he has handled the social distancing, and people wearing masks, basically encouraged them not to. And he's a fool on that.

TRUMP

If you could get the crowds, you would’ve done the same thing, but you can't -- nobody cares, nobody cares.

WALLACE

Gentlemen, can we move on to the economy. The economy is, I think it's fair to say, is recovering faster than expected from the shutdown much in the second quarter. The unemployment rate fell to 8.4% last month. The Federal Reserve says the hit to growth which is going to be there is not going to be nearly as big as they had expected. President Trump, you say we are in a V shaped recovery. Vice President Biden you say it's more of a K shape. What difference does that mean to the American people in terms of the economy. President Trump, in this segment, you go first.

32:56 TRUMP

So we built the greatest economy in history. We close it down because of the China plague, when the plague came in we closed it down, which was very hard, psychologically to do. He didn't think we should close it down, and he was wrong, again. To me it -- people would be dead now, instead of still 204,000 people is too much, one person is too much, should have never happened from China. But what happened is we've closed it down and now we're reopening, and we're doing record business. We had 10.4 million people in a four month period that we've put back into the workforce. That's a record the likes of which nobody's ever seen before, and he wants to close down the -- he will shut it down again. He will destroy this country, you know, a lot of people, between drugs and alcohol and depression, when you start shutting it down and you take a look at what's happening in some of your Democrat run states where they have these tough shutdowns, and I'm telling you it's because they don't want to open it. One of them came out last week, you saw that, said they’ll open up November 9. Why November 9? Because it's after the election. They think they're hurting us by keeping them closed. They're hurting people. People know what to do. They can social distance, they can wash their hands, they can wear masks -- they can do whatever they want, but they can open these states up. When you look at North Carolina, when you look at -- these governors are under siege in Michigan and a couple of others. You gotta open the states up. It's not fair. You're talking about almost like being in prison. And you look at what's going on with divorce, look at what's going on with alcoholism and drugs. It's a very, very sad thing. And he'll close down the whole country, this guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. Our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. We don't need somebody to come in and say let's shut it down.

WALLACE

Alright, your two minute sir, we're now moved to you. As I, as I said posing the question, the president says it's a V shape recovery, you say it's a K shape recovery. What's the difference?

BIDEN

The difference is millionaires and billionaires like him, in the middle of COVID crisis, have done very well. The billionaires array have made another $300 billion. Because of his profligate tax proposal and you only focus on the market. But you folks at home, you folks living in Scranton and Claymont -- all the small towns and working class towns in America. How well are you doing? This guy paid a total of $750 in taxes.

WALLACE

I understand. You've agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have them.

BIDEN

I get my time back? The fact is that he is in fact worked on this in a way that he's going to be the first president in the United States to leave office, I mean fewer jobs in his administration than when he became president. Fewer jobs than when he became president. The first one in American history. Secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines, those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have went out there dying, people who have been putting themselves in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. The idea that he is consistent, that we go forward and open when you have almost half the states in America with a significant increase in COVID desks and COVID cases in the United States of America, and he wants to open it up more. Why does he want to open it up? Why doesn't he take care of the American -- you can't fix the economy until you fix the COVID crisis, and he has no intention of doing anything about making it better for you all at home, in terms of your health and your safety. Schools -- why aren't schools open? Because it costs a lot of money to open them safely. You know, they were going to give his administration was going to give the teachers and school students masks. Then they decided, no, couldn't do that, because it's not a national emergency, not a national emergency. They've done nothing to help small businesses, nothing. They're closing. One is six is now gone. He ought to get on the job, and take care of the needs of the American people, so we can open safely.

WALLACE

Right. Your time is up, sir.

TRUMP

I need to respond to that.

WALLACE

Well, you both have two minutes, sir.

37:02 TRUMP

Excuse me. He made a statement. People want their schools, no, people want their schools open. They don't want to be shut down. They don't want their state shut down. They want their restaurants. I look at New York. It's so sad what's happening in New York, it's almost like a ghost town. And I'm not sure I can ever recover what they've done in New York. People want their places open. They want to get back to their lives.

BIDEN

They want to be safe.

TRUMP

They’ll be careful. But they want their schools -- I'm the one that brought back football, by the way, I brought it back Big Ten football. It was me, and I'm very happy to do it. People on all sides are very proud of me, and you don't want to --

WALLACE

Gentlemen, we’re going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment but first, Mr. President, As you well know, there's a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president, and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax, each of those years. I know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but I'm asking you the specific question: Is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes, each of those two years.

TRUMP

I paid millions of dollars in taxes. Millions of dollars of income tax. And let me just tell you, there was a story in one of the papers. I paid $38 million one year. I paid 27 million one year --

BIDEN

Show us your tax returns.

TRUMP

I went -- you'll see it as soon as it's finished, you'll see it. You know, what you want to do -- go to the board of elections. There's 118 page or so report that says everything I have, every bank I have -- I'm totally underleveraged because the assets are extremely good, and we have a very, we have a --

WALLACE

I’m asking a specific question, a specific question, which is --

TRUMP

Let me tell you, that I understand --

38:49 WALLACE

No, Mr. President. I'm asking the question. Will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017?

38:59 TRUMP

Millions of dollars.

39:00 WALLACE

You paid millions of dollars?

39:02 TRUMP

Millions of dollars. Millions of dollars. And you'll get to see it. And you’ll get to see it.

39:05 BIDEN

When?

39:06 TRUMP

But let me tell you, Chris. Let me just say something. It was the tax laws-- I don't want to pay tax. Before I came here, I was a private developer. I was a private business people. Like every other private person, unless they’re stupid, they go through the laws and that's what it is. He passed a tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation, and for tax credits. We built a building and we get tax credits, like the hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. You get an asset, which by the way, was given to me by the Obama administration, if you can believe that. Now the man got fired up right after that happened but--

39:43 WALLACE

Vice President Biden, do you want to respond?

39:45 BIDEN

I do want to respond. Look, the tax code that made him, put him in a position that he pays less tax to the school teacher, make them, the money a school teacher makes. Is because of-- He says he's smart because he can take advantage of the tax code. And he does take advantage of the tax code, but that's why I'm going to eliminate the Trump tax cuts. And we're going to eliminate those tax cuts and make sure that we invest in the people who, in fact, need the help. People out there need help--

40:15 TRUMP

But why did you do it over the last 25 years? Why doesn’t he do it over the last 25 years?

40:19 BIDEN

Because you were president-- Because you were president and destroyed things up.

40:22 TRUMP

You were a senator--

40:24 BIDEN

You are the worst president America’s ever had

40:26 TRUMP

Let me just say Joe I've done more in, in 47 months, I've done more than you've done in 47 years, Joe. We've done things that you never even thought of doing, including fixing the broken military that you gave me, to taking care of the vets--

40:30 WALLACE

We’re talking -- Mr. President, we're talking about the economy. I'd like to ask you about your plans going forward. Because Mr. Vice President, your economic plan, if you were to be elected president, focuses a lot on big government. Big taxes. Big spending. I want to focus first on the taxes. You propose more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. President Trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it's just coming out of a recession.

41:14 BIDEN

Well, just take a look at what is the analysis done by Wall Street firms points out that my economic plan would create 7 million more jobs than his in four years, number one. And number two, it would create an additional $1 trillion in economic growth because it would be about buying American. And we have to. We're gonna make-- The Federal government spends $600 billion a year on everything from ships, to steel, to build, to the like. And under my proposal, we're going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made by a--

41:50 WALLACE

Respectfully, sir. I’m talking about taxes, not spending.

41:54 BIDEN

Well, by the way, I'm gonna eliminate a significant number of the tax. I'm gonna make the, the corporate tax 28%, shouldn't be 21%. You have 19 companies--91 companies, federal, I mean in the fortune 500, who don't pay a single penny in tax making billions of dollars.

42:11 TRUMP

Why didn’t you do it when you were vice president with Obama?

42:15 BIDEN

Because, because you in fact passed that. That was your tax proposal.

42:18 TRUMP

I got it done and you know what happened? Our economy boomed like it's never boomed --

42:23 WALLACE

Mr. President, Mr. President, let me pick up on that. You would continue your free market approach, lower taxes, more deregulation, correct?

42:32 BIDEN

Not lower taxes for the American people.

42:46 WALLACE

But in Obama's economy booming. It turns out that in Obama's final three years as president more jobs were created. A million and a half more jobs than in the first three years of your presidency.

42:48 TRUMP

They had the slowest recovery. Since 19 -- economic recovery, since 1929. It was the slowest recovery. Also, they took over something that was down here. All you have to do is turn on the lights and you pick up a lot, but they had the slowest economic recovery since 1929. Let me tell you about the stock market. When the stock market goes up, that means jobs. It also means 401k's. If you got in, if you ever became president with your ideas -- You want to terminate my taxes? I'll tell you what, you’ll lose half of the companies that have poured in here will leave. And plenty of companies that are already here they'll leave for other places. They will leave, and you will have a depression, the likes of which you've never seen.

43:29 BIDEN

Look, we inherited the worst recession, short of a depression, in American history. I was asked to bring it back. We were able to have an economic recovery, the crazy jobs you're talking about. He comes in on a booming economy. He blew it. He blew it.

43:44 TRUMP

It wasn’t booming. It wasn’t booming.

43:49 WALLACE

Sir, wait. Wait. Is it fair to say he blew it when, when there was record low unemployment before COVID?

43:57 BIDEN

Yeah. Yeah, because what he did, even before COVID, manufacturing went in the hole. Manufacturing went in the hole--

44:04 TRUMP

Excuse me, Chris. Wait, Chris. They said it would take?

44:05 BIDEN

Number one, number two, number three --

44:09 TRUMP

No, you’re number two. Chris, Chris.

44:12 BIDEN

This guy --

44:13 TRUMP

They said it was a miracle to bring back manufacturing, I brought back 700,000 jobs. They brought back nothing. They gave up on manufacturing --

44:20 BIDEN

We did not give up. I'm the guy who brought back the automobile industry.

44:23 TRUMP

He totally gave up on the auto industry --

44:24 WALLACE

Alright, let him --

44:26 BIDEN

We brought back, I was asked to bring back, Chrysler and General Motors. We brought them back right here in the state of Ohio and Michigan. He blew it. They're gone. He blew it. And in fact, they're going --

44:34 TRUMP

Ohio had the best year it's ever had last year. Michigan had the best year they've ever had --

44:39 BIDEN

That is not true.

44:40 TRUMP

Many car companies came in from Germany, from China. They went to Michigan, went to Ohio.

44:47 WALLACE

Mr. Vice President --

44:48 BIDEN

And so, you take a look at what he's actually done. He's done very little. His trade deals are the same way. He talks about these great trade deals. You know, he talks about the art of the deal. China's made, perfected the art of the steel. We have a higher deficit with China now than we did before. We have the highest trade deficit with Mexico --

45:06 TRUMP

China ate your lunch --

45:07 WALLACE

Alright, gentlemen --

45:09 TRUMP

China ate your lunch, Joe. No wonder your son goes in and he takes out what he takes out, billions of dollars. Takes out billions of dollars to manage. He makes millions of dollars. And also, while we're at it, why is it, just out of curiosity, the mayor of Moscow’s wife gave your son $3.5 million? What did he do to deserve it? What did he do --

45:34 WALLACE

You asked a question. Let him answer.

45:36 BIDEN

None of that is true.

45:38 TRUMP

Oh, really?

45:39 WALLACE

Mr. President. Mr. President, please. You asked a question--

45:41 BIDEN

Totally discredited. Totally discredited and by the way --

45:46 TRUMP

He did get $3.5 million, Joe?

45:48 WALLACE

Mr. Vice -- Mr. President --

45:49 TRUMP

He got $3.5 million.

BIDEN

That is not true.

TRUMP

Oh, really?

45:52 WALLACE

Mr. President. It's an, it's an open discussion, please. You --

45:55 TRUMP

No. It’s a fact.

45:57 WALLACE

Well, you’ve raised an issue. Let the vice president answer.

45:59 BIDEN

Totally discredit --

TRUMP

-- $183,000a month? With no experience and energy?

46:07 WALLACE

Mr. President, let him answer.

46:08 BIDEN

My son did nothing wrong --

46:09 TRUMP

Yes, he did --

46:10 WALLACE

Mr. President, let him answer.

46:12 BIDEN

He doesn’t want to let me answer because he knows I have the truth. His position has been totally, thoroughly discredited --

46:17 TRUMP

By who? The media.

46:20 BIDEN

By everyone, well by the media, by our allies, by the World Bank, by eh- by everyone has discredited. Matter of fact.

46:30 WALLACE

Mr. President, please stop.

46:30 BIDEN

Matter of fact, even the people who testified under oath.

46:32 TRUMP

So let me ask you this --

46:39

He testified under oath and his administration said, I did my job and I did very well.

46:45 TRUMP

I don’t know who they are --

46:46 BIDEN

Well I'll give you the list of the people who testified. Sir, you’ve already fired most of them because they did their jobs.

46:53 TRUMP

Well some people don’t --

46:56 WALLACE

Wait a minute, you get the final word.

46:57 BIDEN

Well, it's hard to get any word with this clown, excuse me, this person.

47:00 TRUMP

Let me just say --

47:02 WALLACE

No, no, Mr. President. Mr. President.

47:06 BIDEN

That is simply not true.

47:07 TRUMP

Why did he deserve three and a half million for Moscow?

47:08 BIDEN

Look, here's the deal. I want to talk about families and ethics. I don't want to do that. I mean his family we could talk about all night. His family --

47:18 TRUMP

My family, my family lost a fortune coming down and helping us with government and

47:23 WALLACE

Mr. President.

47:24 TRUMP

Every single one of them lost --

47:26 BIDEN

This is not about his family or my family. It’s about your family.

47:30 TRUMP

Three and a half million dollars.

47:31 Biden

That's not true. It doesn't want to talk about what you need, you, the American people. It's about you. That's what we're talking about.

47:41 WALLACE

Alright, that's the end of this segment. We're moving on. Mr. President --

47:47 TRUMP

Can I be honest? It's very important to --

47:49 BIDEN

Try to be honest.

47:50 WALLACE

No, the answer the question is no. No, I, sir.

47:54 TRUMP

-- with a billion dollars.

47:56 BIDEN

That is absolutely not true --

48:00 WALLACE

Gentleman I hate to raise my voice, but why should I be different than the two of you? So here's the deal, we have six segments. We have ended that segment, we're going to go to the next segment. In that segment, you each are gonna have two uninterrupted moments. In those two interrupted minutes, Mr. President, you can say anything you want. I can asked a question about race but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead. But we, I think that the country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak with fewer interruption. I'm appealing to you sir to do that.

48:34 TRUMP

Well, him too.

48:36 WALLACE

Well, frankly, you've been doing more interrupting-

48:38 TRUMP

Well that’s alright, but he does plenty.

48:40 WALLACE

Well, less than, sir less than you have. Let's please continue on. The issue of race. Vice President Biden you say that President Trump's response to the violence in Charlottesville three years ago, when he talked about very fine people on both sides, was what directly led you to launch this run for president,

49:05 TRUMP

Oh yeah sure.

49:05 WALLACE

President Trump, you have often said that you believe you have done more for black Americans than any president with the possible exception of Abraham Lincoln. My question for the two of you is why should voters trust you, rather than your opponent, to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? Vice President Biden, you go first.

49:26 BIDEN

It's about equity and equality. It’s about decency. It's about the Constitution. And we have never walked away from trying to quite require equity for everyone, equality for the whole America.

But we've never accomplished it, but we've never walked away from it like he has done. It is true, the reason I got into the race was with most people. Close your eyes. Remember what those people look like coming out in the fields carrying torches. Their veins bulgy. Spewing, just spewing anti Semitic bile and accompanied by the Ku Klux Klan. A young woman got killed and when they asked the president what he thought he said there were very fine people on both sides. No presidents ever said anything like that.

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